Siege weapons and Siege bag

MaxwellC

Can there be an option to lock certain siege weapons? It gets really annoying when you're trying to chain oil above the siege merchant when an enemy faction breaks into the inner keep but only to have that foiled by someone prematurely doing it or using it and never letting go.
It's also annoying when I'm using both Cold fire siege weapons to aim at the inner keep door as an enemy faction hits it but only to have another faction memeber grab it and turn it the complete opposite direction from where I'm shooting only to aid in me losing it because enemies started to get attracted thanks to him shooting at those coming in and thus making me lose both cold fire siege weapons.

Lastly will there be an option in the future for a siege bag? It'll preform exactly like the crafting bag but will only be available as an AvA item you can purchase with alliance points. If making it trade-able then it'll come in a runebox but the base cost regardless should be 1 million Alliance points.
It's annoying having to run back and forth getting more siege weapons only to have the same item take up 20 slots of my inventory. The AvA bag will store everything related to AvA e.g siege weapons, repairs, etc but you can link items from your back to your quick action menu instead of pulling them out individually.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
-Discuss

Kybotica

This would be a HUGE convenience, but it might cheapen large-scale sieges by making it unimportant to hold a resource. I know that in particularly grueling sieges, siege weapons must frequently be left to expire while you defend against organized players. This makes them run out faster, forcing you to cap and hold a resource so you can restock, while giving defenders a chance to regroup/unflag if attackers aren't careful.

I like the idea personally due to inventory space, but I don't know that I could support it because it removes certain strategic dynamics from big sieges.

MaxwellC

@Kybotica
You can buy sieges from any merchant in PvP so I'm not sure how that would make large scale sieges cheaper when you could go to the nearby keep, encounter a traveling merchant, capture another resource, go to the nearest outpost, or even go to even respecting spawn locations.

Kybotica

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Kybotica
You can buy sieges from any merchant in PvP so I'm not sure how that would make large scale sieges when you could go to the nearby keep, encounter a traveling merchant, capture another resource, go to the nearest outpost, or even go to even respecting spawn locations.

What? I think you very heavily misconstrued my post. I was saying that allowing people to have large amounts of siege stored in a siege-exclusive bag would actually cause large sieges to last longer, and would remove the tactics involved when defenders successfully push attackers off a siege line. Those engines are lost, and due to inventory constraints, the attackers will need to replenish their supply if they're behind enemy lines or are engaged in a vigorous battle. They'll need to own a resource or take one to do so in any sort of timely manner in that case. Using another keep isn't a great option when you're in the middle of a battle, because you're likely to lose your progress if attacking a well-defended keep.

Having a bag that can store tons of siege would completely trivialize this aspect of sieges, further disincentivizing resources. If you can store tons of siege withour worrying about inventory, you'll not have to worry about resource caps or merchant locations. You can just place more and never worry about how many you have left.

MaxwellC

@Kybotica

Kybotica wrote: »

This would be a HUGE convenience, but it might cheapen large-scale sieges by making it unimportant to hold a resource.

^That point right there had me thinking you meant that but if you didn't then sorry.

If you're engaged in a keep fight you could always cap a resource and with the upcoming changes to AvA, capturing resources will be something of the norm as the more you have the better score you get due to it being multiplied.

Players who have coldfire sieges do have to worry and its something I mentioned in the very first post but other sieges will expire as you said but I do not think everyone just buys and forgets to pack up their siege after using it, especially if you're trying to save AP for the weekly golden cat in hopes to make up the money you lose during the week.

VaranisArano

I would actually subscribe for this, with how much I siege in PVP, but I also agree that it takes away from the need to maintain resources and keeps so you dont have to go back to the gates to buy siege in the field.

MaxwellC

@VaranisArano
Even with the changes to resources in the next update?

VaranisArano

MaxwellC wrote: »

VaranisArano
Even with the changes to resources in the next update?

That resources and the keep now count as a superstructure for ticks and having more resources gives defenders the ability to place more siege?

Yeah. Look, I don't often run out of siege while defending, because I can just run downstairs and grab more from the siege merchant.

I run out of siege while attacking one keep after another if I don't stop to buy more siege. If I had a siege bag, I'd just stock up on as much as I could instead of grabbing a certain number that I can fit in my bag and never have pause to buy more.

So giving me a siege bag would stop that delay when I have to replenish siege, diminish the impact of killing the siege merchant, and basically let me carry all the siege weapons I could want instead of the 20 some I have space for. I don't see anything in the new update that would change that for me.

Grampa_Smurf

Like the idea of a siege bag..... maybe on the same line a craft bag tied to subs.

Talcyndl

I've been playing long enough to remember when ZOS announced that siege weapons would stack. They even put the change in release notes. Alas, they never actually were able to make the feature work - apparently decayed weapons wouldn't stack properly.

MaxwellC

@VaranisArano
No I meant the resources being a multiplier for your AP gained when capturing a keep or defending it; That alone should be all the incentive anyone would need IMO other than the quick buff you get from capturing structures.

VaranisArano

MaxwellC wrote: »

VaranisArano
No I meant the resources being a multiplier for your AP gained when capturing a keep or defending it; That alone should be all the incentive anyone would need IMO other than the quick buff you get from capturing structures.

Well, sure there's plenty of reasons to maintain resources, but I don't see what that has to do with the availability of siege. One reason (not a great reason, but a reason) for attackers to capture resources is to get siege weapons if they for whatever reason ran out. I suspect that most people only rarely claim a resource for the sole purpose of buying siege. Most people do it to cut off a keep, reestablish transit, or get AP and points.

If I had a crafting bag, I would fill up on siege to my hearts content since I have tons of AP to spend and never have to stop at a siege merchant all night. There's nothing in the new update that would change that behavior. So it comes down to whether or not ZOS wants me to have practically unlimited siege options (I doubt they do).

MaxwellC

@VaranisArano
My point about the resource multiplier was to refute the claim that it'll disincentive players from grabbing resources i.e my post about siege bags. As I stated before you can get sieges from the merchant and even that argument holds little water as most players fill up before the battle and after the battle (based on capturing/defending in PvP).

All in all this will only be possible if ZOS feels this idea is good or worth the effort. I simply hope it is since I hate having all my inventory slots filled with the same item.

Kybotica

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Kybotica

Kybotica wrote: »

This would be a HUGE convenience, but it might cheapen large-scale sieges by making it unimportant to hold a resource.

^That point right there had me thinking you meant that but if you didn't then sorry.

If you're engaged in a keep fight you could always cap a resource and with the upcoming changes to AvA, capturing resources will be something of the norm as the more you have the better score you get due to it being multiplied.

Players who have coldfire sieges do have to worry and its something I mentioned in the very first post but other sieges will expire as you said but I do not think everyone just buys and forgets to pack up their siege after using it, especially if you're trying to save AP for the weekly golden cat in hopes to make up the money you lose during the week.

I get that not everybody "forgets to pack up," but I know that if you don't get off siege immediately during a large defensive pushback, you'll die. Your siege in that scenario is a loss either way. Coldfire is limited by drops/farming time. Regular siege isn't. Regular siege being essentially infinite would make it easier for attackers to steamroll multiple keeps, or to keep defending indefinitely without worrying about having to break off and take a resource for access to a merchant. While the resource modifier may help incentivize resources, it certainly wouldn't mitigate the lack of imminent need to capture them. They'll still be a secondary concern unless a group needs more siege, which also won't be a concern if they can carry around a ridiculous number in a special bag.

NordSwordnBoard

Sometimes even wizards succumb to logistics.

Nermy

Great idea!

I've been asking for a sepeate siege bar (Quick slot) for ages but this I think is a really good idea.

And for those saying it would affect long sieges, I always carry about 15 sieges/oils and 5 camps so I think that is slightly nit-picking a great idea.

VaranisArano

Nermy wrote: »

Great idea!

I've been asking for a sepeate siege bar (Quick slot) for ages but this I think is a really good idea.

And for those saying it would affect long sieges, I always carry about 15 sieges/oils and 5 camps so I think that is slightly nit-picking a great idea.

That's about what I carry. My problem with the idea is that if ZOS gives me a siege bag, I'm going to carry 20+ of every single type of siege and never run out and always have what I need on hand...

Oil? I've got 60!
You need an ice treb? Who uses an ice treb? Oh well, I've got ten!

MaxwellC

@Kybotica
Yeah we'll never see eye to eye on that issue because you're able to buy these sieges at any merchant and most players who buy a large amount of sieges would do it before they enter a fight via merchants everywhere in Cyrodill.
I can't even agree with the steam-rolling argument because it isn't remotely true; One player doesn't bring all the sieges to the battle and in PvP it's a collective initiative that takes the keep. Everyone has their own sieges and there's currently a limit to how many you can have (maybe more due to resources influencing the amount you can have but it can also be less as well).

Siege items isn't the biggest reason why people capture them, it's AP and the buff given for capturing structures. Trying to state that sieges would be a major reason isn't true whatsoever as that there's plenty of ways to buy sieges without even going to a structure. Resource nodes will become even more important with the changes to PvP coming with summerset as they'll influence AP gains when capturing the main structure i.e Keeps and influence how much more powerful the NPCs in the keep will become as they're also getting a power-up with this update.

So again we'll never see eye to eye and that's fine it's a discussion but thanks for your responses

Kybotica

How can you buy siege at an enemy-controlled keep with no nearby transit other than at a captured resource? I'm just curious, because when (it is a when, not an if, speaking as a player who has been here on and off since beta)players run out of siege or forget to replenish prior to a keep battle, they have limited options for retreat and replenishing siege. I may be missing something (are there hidden merchants located extremely close to a keep?) since I only recently returned after a few months off, but to me it seems like this would still reduce the importance of resources.

Of course, the upcoming changes may change that. I'll wait and see what they do to encourage PvP for resources and then I can take another look. If it does enough to encourage said resource PvP, I'd be up for a bag just based upon convenience, which is what I said in my initial post. I just have reservations because I feel like the "artificial scarcity" of siege created by not having bank access in the field and by having limited inventory space was an intended mechanic designed to encourage resource captures for siege replenishment during longer fights and to also create a "reset period" for defenders if the enemy exhausts their siege supply.

MaxwellC

@Kybotica
You can't make an argument for scarcity like I said before you're able to currently buy as many as you want as long as your inventory space allows it.
Regarding merchants as I stated before you can access merchants the moment you enter the campaign as they're at each factions spawn. You keep making the argument about not being able to get sieges from an enemy keep and that is true but then you fail to acknowledge that you can easily capture a resource and buy sieges if you so happen to run out or rely on other players who do have a lot of sieges available.

Since you said you just came back recently please don't take this the wrong way but play the campaign. All you see now is enemy factions capturing resources to isolate keeps, take resources to boost score potential, take resources to gain buffs, take resources to farm scrolls, take resources to gain AP. There are plenty reasons to take control of a resource and citing siege again isn't a weak argument and I mean that not in a disrespectful way but just a fact based on game-play and having PvP experience from nearly 69k AvA kills or almost being a Warlord in PvP (completely solo unless I'm Emperor).

Anazasi

because they are placed in the world as an interactive object they can not stack. The bag is possible but stacking is a no go. They have tried this 3 years ago and it failed as I recall.