Raid Setup - vMoL (and HM)

Cybercore_Death

I’m aware of the difficulty of this trial (and am currently in a progression group that’s stuck on the twins).

I’ve watched various runs, with varying skill levels and completions times and my questions is this:

What is the optimal raid setup for running vMoL (and HM)?

I would like to know best if possible what builds (DPS, Tank, Healer - Gear combos to maximise damage) and any advice that can be given to help complete vMoL.

As a group we’re not interested in getting the best score or time or in general breaking any records. What is like to know is what kind of raid setup groups have when they do 20 min speed runs and how they’re able to hit 60-80k group buffed for DPS.

Thanks in advance for any reaponses as I realise the level of detail I’m asking for.

FakeFox

For Tanks you wan't to have sets to lower the resistances, so mainly Alkosh and Torugs and if you can fit it in Powerful Assault or Jorvulds. For Healers SPC, Aether and Jorvulds. For DDs you want to have as much stamina as you can conveniently fit, so 4-5. Of course you want to have Thunderflame, NMG and Warmachine on stamina.
However setups alone won't get you far. You need to optimize tactics, positioning, trash stacks, etc. to really get the maximum out of the setups. Alkosh is worth nothing if you don't have synergies, Warmachine doesn't do much if you buff the tanks with it and so on.
In conclusion there is a lot you can do here, but it will not work if you don't have the necessary understanding of the mechanics to properly use it.

Checkmath

for vMoL the raid setup concerning roles is 2 tanks, 2 healers and 8 dd's (that you surely already know).
since there arent that much hard hitting abilities from adds and bosses (towards tanks), tanks mostly have following sets with them: one tank with ebony male and alkosh, the other torugs pact and alkosh for the heallth boni in the group and resistance debuffs from better crusher enchants and alkosh.
healers should provide following sets: once worm cult, 2 times SPC and mending was very good in vMoL i think.
for the dd's, there i am not sure about optimal numbers of stamina and magicka toons. but regarding the stamina toons, they all stand near bosses and there are mechanics like meteor showers of rakkhat or at the first boss, where everyone shouldnt stack, so too many stamina dd's is not good ( 4 is best). the stamina dd's should all add to the physical penetration by using sets like nightmothers gaze, sunderflame and for additional poison damage morag tong is very nice.
you already cleared the first boss, so i wont say much there. for the twins i recommend to position the white one somewhere near middle and always at the same spot (just tank him back to the spot after the colours changed). the black twin needs to be tanked a bit outside of the center, best is to not bring him close to the group near the white one because of the fusion damage between players with different colours. the black twin shout face the room walls, so his negates will not hit the groups. the mini bosses should be chained to the specific boss and should fall in the aoe damage, if they dont, all ranged dd,s should focus them in the split phase, when the two twins ported to the opposing walls.

mastoeb

http://eso.kill-loot-repeat.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2827909

Maybe this can help you for general advise

Four grp composition:

4 melee 4 ranged with atleast i magsorc for synergies


Sets :

all major buff sets (nmg /sunder / major slayer sets and morag if there are enough stam dks)

Tank and healer sets:

This highly varies on group skillevel

For beginner groups i recommend alkosh + torug on main and ebon + alkosh on offtank, and healers worm and mending paired with spc

For exp grps when survival is no issue anymore we atm have both healers spc and jorvulds, maintank alkosh torug and offtank alkosh PA

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Before you start min.maxing speedrun strats, you should consider getting your first clear. The strats will not be the same.

First and foremost, lets talk support. 2 DK tanks, and 2 Templar healers. If one of those is a warden, not the end of the world, but stick to what works. Tanks should focus on debuff the target and buffing DPS. Healers should focus on buffing DPS and resource management. Tank Sets: Alkosh, Torgus, Ebon, Powerful Assault. Healer Sets: SPCx2, worm, and dealers choice. I also strongly recommend that you discuss and practice a solid Warhorn rotation. You should have the goal of casting a warhorn as a group about every 30-40 seconds when learning.

As for DPS. If you want to break records, then yes, squeeze as many stamboys as possible. If you want your first clear, knock that crap off right away. Haha. We were the 3rd or 4th HM clear on PC/NA, and we had zero stamina in our group. Sure it was a different meta, but stam is not needed for a clear.

What you want are 2MDKs and a crap load of magic sorcs and nightblades. The 2 magic DKs are there for the twins. That gives 4 people total with chains (including the tanks). Is that many needed? Of course not, but it sure does make the twins fight easier.

Sorcs and NBs are there for solid range DPS with big shields. On the last fight (non-HM) you will need to have 2 DPS as kiters and 2 DPS for back room duty. A sorc with an overload bar (streak, dark Conversion, Hardened ward) makes the back room a non issue. Overload to take out assassins, streak to make sure you dont mess up one of the jumps. Nightblades make phenomenal kiters for meteor team. They have constant major expedition and can pull high damage from range. The two mDKs you brought will be in melee on the boss, which leaves two open spots. If you have very strong stamina DPS, bring them, but if not, add an extra sorc and NB. They do just fine in melee range for this.

For magic DPS, there is really no secret here. Go with meta DPS sets. Only go with Master Architect on mNBs if they are really on their game, otherwise, go with more traditional damage sets.

For Stamina DPS: If you decide to bring 3-4, then you need to coordinate debuff sets. If you only bring one or two, then honestly they should just stack pen and take care of themselves. Again, unless your stamina players are very strong, I wouldn't advise them when learning.

Masel

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Before you start min.maxing speedrun strats, you should consider getting your first clear. The strats will not be the same.

First and foremost, lets talk support. 2 DK tanks, and 2 Templar healers. If one of those is a warden, not the end of the world, but stick to what works. Tanks should focus on debuff the target and buffing DPS. Healers should focus on buffing DPS and resource management. Tank Sets: Alkosh, Torgus, Ebon, Powerful Assault. Healer Sets: SPCx2, worm, and dealers choice. I also strongly recommend that you discuss and practice a solid Warhorn rotation. You should have the goal of casting a warhorn as a group about every 30-40 seconds when learning.

As for DPS. If you want to break records, then yes, squeeze as many stamboys as possible. If you want your first clear, knock that crap off right away. Haha. We were the 3rd or 4th HM clear on PC/NA, and we had zero stamina in our group. Sure it was a different meta, but stam is not needed for a clear.

What you want are 2MDKs and a crap load of magic sorcs and nightblades. The 2 magic DKs are there for the twins. That gives 4 people total with chains (including the tanks). Is that many needed? Of course not, but it sure does make the twins fight easier.

Sorcs and NBs are there for solid range DPS with big shields. On the last fight (non-HM) you will need to have 2 DPS as kiters and 2 DPS for back room duty. A sorc with an overload bar (streak, dark Conversion, Hardened ward) makes the back room a non issue. Overload to take out assassins, streak to make sure you dont mess up one of the jumps. Nightblades make phenomenal kiters for meteor team. They have constant major expedition and can pull high damage from range. The two mDKs you brought will be in melee on the boss, which leaves two open spots. If you have very strong stamina DPS, bring them, but if not, add an extra sorc and NB. They do just fine in melee range for this.

For magic DPS, there is really no secret here. Go with meta DPS sets. Only go with Master Architect on mNBs if they are really on their game, otherwise, go with more traditional damage sets.

For Stamina DPS: If you decide to bring 3-4, then you need to coordinate debuff sets. If you only bring one or two, then honestly they should just stack pen and take care of themselves. Again, unless your stamina players are very strong, I wouldn't advise them when learning.

Pretty much this. We went in yesterday after about a year and cleared it on HM after 5 tries with a platform 5 nuke.

Our setup was:

Dk Maintank, Warden Offtank, 2 Stamblades with War Machine+Acuity, One stamplar (me) with nmg and sunder, one mag dk (who outparsed us all with 54k single target DPS), 2 magblades and two magsorcs.

Survival and positioning is key there. Have your dds stack at all times in positions where they cannot get cursed, make clear exactly who is kiting where and where to explode the void on every platform. Running backyard isn't harder than on normal. Have all four magicka dds to be able to run. Meteor kiting has to be on point, because two meteors in the group will likely kill at least one person.

I'd advise you to try and build for sufficient DPS to kill it on the seventh platform so you only have to run twice. Going through lunar is painful and you simply don't want that...

Cybercore_Death

A massive thankyou to you guys for replying. I appreciated the advice and it’s good to see how people do things. I’ve had discussions with the group I’m on in setups etc but as we’re a progression group it’s always nice to have he confirmation on what should / shouldn’t be done / worn to be effective.

We were doing the original sides strat with MagDK chainers for chain away near the end of the fight. Lowest we got the twins to as a group was about 24/25%.

Last night we tried it a little different and rather than original sides we just stayed where we were and only changed when the colours forced. Naturally it mixed it up for the healers as they some times had to range heal and try and remember positioning as well but with a couple of attempts we managed to get down to about 30%.

Seems to be mainly once we get that low and the adds spawn that spatial awareness goes out of the window and we end up with too many deaths to recover from.

Group wise the tanks and healers are pretty much as you guys have said. And we’ve tried with a mix of 4/4 Stam / Mag and 2/6 Stam / Mag.

The main reason for ge group (it’s not my group) wanting the Stam toons in is for the debuff sets (Sunder / NMG) but I have wondered myself if it would be easier to run full Mag rather than a Stam and see if we faired better. I’ll make the suggestion on that one thankyou :-)

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

A massive thankyou to you guys for replying. I appreciated the advice and it’s good to see how people do things. I’ve had discussions with the group I’m on in setups etc but as we’re a progression group it’s always nice to have he confirmation on what should / shouldn’t be done / worn to be effective.

We were doing the original sides strat with MagDK chainers for chain away near the end of the fight. Lowest we got the twins to as a group was about 24/25%.

Last night we tried it a little different and rather than original sides we just stayed where we were and only changed when the colours forced. Naturally it mixed it up for the healers as they some times had to range heal and try and remember positioning as well but with a couple of attempts we managed to get down to about 30%.

Seems to be mainly once we get that low and the adds spawn that spatial awareness goes out of the window and we end up with too many deaths to recover from.

Group wise the tanks and healers are pretty much as you guys have said. And we’ve tried with a mix of 4/4 Stam / Mag and 2/6 Stam / Mag.

The main reason for ge group (it’s not my group) wanting the Stam toons in is for the debuff sets (Sunder / NMG) but I have wondered myself if it would be easier to run full Mag rather than a Stam and see if we faired better. I’ll make the suggestion on that one thankyou :-)

Remember, those sets only buff other stam toons because they are physical penetration sets. In other words, you only need those sets if you have stamina. An all magic group will not miss them. If you only have two stamina, you could certainly put one each in sunder and NM, but specifically for the twins, they will do better in TFS, unless they magically stay on the same side the whole fight.

As to the percent health, you guys obviously have the basics if you are getting both of them to execute. It's a pretty common place to get stuck. How many adds are spawning in your last wave? Those adds are on a timer, so the faster you can burn the boss, the less you will deal with in the nuke phase as the number increases. Only real advice there is to make sure your damage dealers are tab targeting bosses and using their cleave to kill adds, which obviously need to be stacked with chains on the boss. This is one of the more mechanic intensive fights in the game. Not only for the obvious one-shots, but Its really important that your group knows when to focus what boss, and when to switch. Very common to see newer groups just pounding away on the same boss after the colors swap. Also, I would have all your range focus the sword and board guy whenever you have color free sections, as he tends to die a little slower.

Cybercore_Death

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

A massive thankyou to you guys for replying. I appreciated the advice and it’s good to see how people do things. I’ve had discussions with the group I’m on in setups etc but as we’re a progression group it’s always nice to have he confirmation on what should / shouldn’t be done / worn to be effective.

We were doing the original sides strat with MagDK chainers for chain away near the end of the fight. Lowest we got the twins to as a group was about 24/25%.

Last night we tried it a little different and rather than original sides we just stayed where we were and only changed when the colours forced. Naturally it mixed it up for the healers as they some times had to range heal and try and remember positioning as well but with a couple of attempts we managed to get down to about 30%.

Seems to be mainly once we get that low and the adds spawn that spatial awareness goes out of the window and we end up with too many deaths to recover from.

Group wise the tanks and healers are pretty much as you guys have said. And we’ve tried with a mix of 4/4 Stam / Mag and 2/6 Stam / Mag.

The main reason for ge group (it’s not my group) wanting the Stam toons in is for the debuff sets (Sunder / NMG) but I have wondered myself if it would be easier to run full Mag rather than a Stam and see if we faired better. I’ll make the suggestion on that one thankyou :-)

Remember, those sets only buff other stam toons because they are physical penetration sets. In other words, you only need those sets if you have stamina. An all magic group will not miss them. If you only have two stamina, you could certainly put one each in sunder and NM, but specifically for the twins, they will do better in TFS, unless they magically stay on the same side the whole fight.

As to the percent health, you guys obviously have the basics if you are getting both of them to execute. It's a pretty common place to get stuck. How many adds are spawning in your last wave? Those adds are on a timer, so the faster you can burn the boss, the less you will deal with in the nuke phase as the number increases. Only real advice there is to make sure your damage dealers are tab targeting bosses and using their cleave to kill adds, which obviously need to be stacked with chains on the boss. This is one of the more mechanic intensive fights in the game. Not only for the obvious one-shots, but Its really important that your group knows when to focus what boss, and when to switch. Very common to see newer groups just pounding away on the same boss after the colors swap. Also, I would have all your range focus the sword and board guy whenever you have color free sections, as he tends to die a little slower.

I've never properly paid attention but i seem to think there's at least 3/4 on each side (could be wrong, will double check next time we run).

In terms of damage progress we can get roughly 25% health down each prayer phase (give or take warhorn up time and negate drops). We do generally do a decent job of keeping their health around the same. I'll take note of the S&B guy though as that's something i myself didn't realise.

Camb0Sl1ce

@Cybercore_Death when you're getting them to 24/25% how much health does the individual bosses have? I'm at work right now so can't really check. Just wondering because when I first started clearing it the groups I ran with would have the magdks "chain away", I don't know if you're doing that now but I think it makes it a bit safer. The dks would chain the adds over to them and spam deep breath while the rest of the group focused the bosses down.

Royaji

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

I've never properly paid attention

This might be your issue. The adds spawn based on the amount of prayer phases and go 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3. But they are also tied to bosses health and it is common to skip the second 2 spawn and go immediately to 3 adds. Since you are wiping on 20-25% you are most likely getting killed by the first 3 add spawn.

There are two ways to deal with it.
1) Have enough DPS to burn one of the bosses on the first 3 add spawn. This is normally not an option for progression runs since DPS is lacking (like in your case: burning from 25% is not impossible but hard).
2) Deal with the first 3 add pull and burn on the second. This means focusing adds. They have to die before prayer otherwise it's a guaranteed wipe. They are also the most likely cause of deaths either through light DoT (don't forget your purge) or dark shadow balls (they hurt a lot and push tanks back if they are blocking). So once you see 3 adds chain them on the boss and focus them. They should die fast and the bosses can go to 10-15%. After that you have another 3 add spawn where you can burn one of the bosses (this causes all adds to despawn).

After that you will have the execute phase where the adds will spawn again and at that point one of the tanks (chainers can help too if you have them) just chains them away from the group and keeps on interrupting (deep breath helps but is not necessary).