Why are the forums toxic?

Maura_Neysa

I think its because in the age of the internet, there are now so many bridges across the world that the Troll population has exploded.
I kill every Troll I can find in Tamrial, but I dont think that is doing much to help control the population

Sixsixsix161

efduncanub17_ESO wrote: »

This is one of the friendliest forums I've been on ever...compared to WoW this place is a happy land of joy

This is the truth.

Worse, is general and trade chat on WoW. I was on Stormrage, one of the biggest WoW servers in NA, and chat was a daily cesspool of numerous subjects that never should have seen the light of day. Unfortunately, Blizzard never did anything about it, but then suddenly up pops this automated ban system. This can be and was abused (as I was witness to), and I don't think it did much.

After 14 years, I finally walked away last year and will not go back to that game.

But yeah, the forums here, and in-game chat, are really nice.

DoctorESO

Tasear wrote: »

Seems like something we often say in passing but is it true? Obviously not always but I don't recall people saying forums to be positive place.

So let raise some issues that not just effect myself but others.

People posting mutiple threads

There's clear harssment to anyone who does in general section. This done to people discuss old or new topics. Sure moderation is there but I often see things ingored like. So let ask the question that goes along with? Why is a secret taboo to post mutiple threads?

Why do people belittle people for having to many stars?

It's often people get quoted with bettiling comments or forum farming by simply stating something. This seems progressive worst as people get more stars. Why do helpful people get punished?


Why is not okay to defend yourself?

If you have well intentions it best not to respond to baiters or this voliation of forum rules? Yet I often see people belttiled, jeered or harssed even more if say nothing?

There's other issues but making long posts seems be taboo issues too, so state a few others in quick succession, L2P, reroll to different class, necroing, dead horses.

Note: Answer is yes, I am annoyed but I am appart of a bigger issue.

Every person has some degree of toxicity in them. Some have very little, while others have a lot. Toxicity needs to be released. In the offline world, there are not many avenues to release toxicity, and doing so most often brings about negative effects for the individual. In the online world, the rules are different, and toxicity can be released in much freer fashion. Hence, the toxicity on the forums.

Tasear

Maryal wrote: »

IMO, most toxic people don't want to be told why they are toxic, they don't want to be told they are wrong, and most have very fragile egos ... therefore serious discussions on the topic aren't going to occur on these forums.

I suppose not but maybe good to talk about on occasion. Some toxicity is healthy but some of been growing into cyberbulling not per say, but it's been seen.


Remember our poor community ambassadors? So often I had seen them take attacks simply for trying be helpful or lighten the mood.

Coolest gm holden took some hate when simply posted how nice picture. He responds to posts all the time but he gets attack only in general section. We are left wondering why zos doesn't talk to us afterwards.

So yes I do understand, but I hope people don't follow such people and take a set back and remember we are a community.

Tasear

DoctorESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Seems like something we often say in passing but is it true? Obviously not always but I don't recall people saying forums to be positive place.

So let raise some issues that not just effect myself but others.

People posting mutiple threads

There's clear harssment to anyone who does in general section. This done to people discuss old or new topics. Sure moderation is there but I often see things ingored like. So let ask the question that goes along with? Why is a secret taboo to post mutiple threads?

Why do people belittle people for having to many stars?

It's often people get quoted with bettiling comments or forum farming by simply stating something. This seems progressive worst as people get more stars. Why do helpful people get punished?


Why is not okay to defend yourself?

If you have well intentions it best not to respond to baiters or this voliation of forum rules? Yet I often see people belttiled, jeered or harssed even more if say nothing?

There's other issues but making long posts seems be taboo issues too, so state a few others in quick succession, L2P, reroll to different class, necroing, dead horses.

Note: Answer is yes, I am annoyed but I am appart of a bigger issue.

Every person has some degree of toxicity in them. Some have very little, while others have a lot. Toxicity needs to be released. In the offline world, there are not many avenues to release toxicity, and doing so most often brings about negative effects for the individual. In the online world, the rules are different, and toxicity can be released in much freer fashion. Hence, the toxicity on the forums.

True but there's time people can go to far. Like making threads for people stop making threads. Yes understand stress but sometimes we have to be careful.

P.S I am sorry I was ever part of that pitchfork mob in the past. I fell in line with others when I should of known better.

Tasear

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/404694/how-would-you-like-male-dancers-and-bards-in-your-home#latest

Anyone who decides to actively take part in general subthread. This wasn't always case either until recently. These are postive threads too about bards no less.

Maryal

Tasear wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

IMO, most toxic people don't want to be told why they are toxic, they don't want to be told they are wrong, and most have very fragile egos ... therefore serious discussions on the topic aren't going to occur on these forums.

I suppose not but maybe good to talk about on occasion. Some toxicity is healthy but some of been growing into cyberbulling not per say, but it's been seen.


Remember our poor community ambassadors? So often I had seen them take attacks simply for trying be helpful or lighten the mood.

Coolest gm holden took some hate when simply posted how nice picture. He responds to posts all the time but he gets attack only in general section. We are left wondering why zos doesn't talk to us afterwards.

So yes I do understand, but I hope people don't follow such people and take a set back and remember we are a community.

The Morrowind closed beta forums was the least toxic forum I've experienced in this game (on issues related to balance, combat, equipment, etc). It was interesting that many people who posted in the closed beta forums were politely vocal in not tolerating toxic posts.

Tasear

Maryal wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

IMO, most toxic people don't want to be told why they are toxic, they don't want to be told they are wrong, and most have very fragile egos ... therefore serious discussions on the topic aren't going to occur on these forums.

I suppose not but maybe good to talk about on occasion. Some toxicity is healthy but some of been growing into cyberbulling not per say, but it's been seen.


Remember our poor community ambassadors? So often I had seen them take attacks simply for trying be helpful or lighten the mood.

Coolest gm holden took some hate when simply posted how nice picture. He responds to posts all the time but he gets attack only in general section. We are left wondering why zos doesn't talk to us afterwards.

So yes I do understand, but I hope people don't follow such people and take a set back and remember we are a community.

The Morrowind closed beta forums was the least toxic forum I've experienced in this game (on issues related to balance, combat, equipment, etc). It was interesting that many people who posted in the closed beta forums were politely vocal in not tolerating toxic posts.

Yes it was. I recall someone posting a copy of their thread from there only be bashed and hated on in general section. They had my sympathies.

VaranisArano

Tasear wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/404694/how-would-you-like-male-dancers-and-bards-in-your-home#latest

Anyone who decides to actively take part in general subthread. This wasn't always case either until recently. These are postive threads too about bards no less.

I don't quite understand your point. The male dancer thread was a spin off of a thread about bards and female dancers, so anyone pointing out "hey, we've already got that thread" is accurate and anyone not taking it seriously is pretty justified given the conversation on the other thread. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/404683/how-would-you-like-female-dancers-and-bards-in-your-house

DoctorESO

Tasear wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Seems like something we often say in passing but is it true? Obviously not always but I don't recall people saying forums to be positive place.

So let raise some issues that not just effect myself but others.

People posting mutiple threads

There's clear harssment to anyone who does in general section. This done to people discuss old or new topics. Sure moderation is there but I often see things ingored like. So let ask the question that goes along with? Why is a secret taboo to post mutiple threads?

Why do people belittle people for having to many stars?

It's often people get quoted with bettiling comments or forum farming by simply stating something. This seems progressive worst as people get more stars. Why do helpful people get punished?


Why is not okay to defend yourself?

If you have well intentions it best not to respond to baiters or this voliation of forum rules? Yet I often see people belttiled, jeered or harssed even more if say nothing?

There's other issues but making long posts seems be taboo issues too, so state a few others in quick succession, L2P, reroll to different class, necroing, dead horses.

Note: Answer is yes, I am annoyed but I am appart of a bigger issue.

Every person has some degree of toxicity in them. Some have very little, while others have a lot. Toxicity needs to be released. In the offline world, there are not many avenues to release toxicity, and doing so most often brings about negative effects for the individual. In the online world, the rules are different, and toxicity can be released in much freer fashion. Hence, the toxicity on the forums.

True but there's time people can go to far. Like making threads for people stop making threads. Yes understand stress but sometimes we have to be careful.

P.S I am sorry I was ever part of that pitchfork mob in the past. I fell in line with others when I should of known better.

Yes, I agree with you. People can definitely go too far, and it seems to happen with too much frequency. We forgive you!

thedude33

Why is the sky blue? Why is water wet?

It might be a news flash for you, but in general, internet forums and social media are kinda toxic.

Sekero

You think these forums are toxic? when I'm here I think I've died and gone to forum heaven. If you want to see toxic visit the SWTOR forums . I'm not surprised that EA closed all forums except SWTOR, as the Dragon Age forums that I frequented most needed you to equip a Hazmat suit before entering. The Mass Effect forums were not much better. Be glad that our forums (or fora as the educated would insist) are mostly polite and helpful.

edited for typo

Tasear

Allanm wrote: »

You think these forums are toxic? when I'm here I think I've died and gone to forum heaven. If you want to see toxic visit the SWTOR forums . I'm not surprised that EA closed all forums except SWTOR, as the Dragon Age forums that I frequented most needed you to equip a Hazmat suit before entering. The Mass Effect forums were not much better. Be glad that our forums (or for a as the educated would insist) are mostly polite and helpful.

That's why eso is number one

We are better then them and keep improving ourselves.

Yzalirk

All forums have toxicity, you just have to accept it.

Ch4mpTW

Tasear wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

It's hard to give an answer. On the whole people here are cool, ive asked many questions here from early on and seen many noobs ask them too and get mega support. I in turn try to help others now my game knowledge has grown.

I think on the whole there's a genuine want to help people.

However then you get the people who just like to cause contentious debate where the point is to farm forum stars etc and that detracts from genuine conversation hence the forum rightly has little tolerance for that.

Some threads sit between the two and people get lambasted unfairly but i think that's the wind up merchants fault for giving everyone no patience.

Lastly what is toxic to one is not to another. There's a current thread calling PvPers toxic for killing PvEers in Cyrodiil which is not toxic at all.

Lastly. I've seen this behaviour on MOST forums, in addition to that gamers are worse and in addition to that fantasy genre folk seem to take debate etc to the next level.

It's also a huge game to be played how the individual wants so views will always differ.

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I don’t know, but it’s been getting dramatically worse and worse. Staff handing out bans over silly stuff, and things like naming and shaming. When in fact they should be banning people who are unnecessarily rude and toxic to people.

When I was a mod on a couple of forums, I always told my colleagues to focus on the flamers and extremely nasty people. Rather than the folks who are being silly, and aren’t bothering nobody. But hey, I’m just speaking off of experiences.

That's also issue. Seems like people are getting rewardes in efforts to flame too. It feels like such atmosphere has recently taken root. For example Everytime knowledge posts a thread. You will find one person mention him in ridicule even before that was doctor ESO. Will I be next?

@Tasear Speaking from the perspective of someone who is both highly-disliked by I’d say the vast majority of forum members, and forum staff alike...? It’s pretty pathetic and horrible how the mob mentality runs rampant here. Before it was Doctor, it was me. And after Doctor, it was Knowledge. And it just snowballs worse and worse.

How I handled it (and how I still do)...? I stopped posting as frequently (I dramatically slowed my roll with affiliating with folks on these forums), and tend to post only on things now that genuinely peak my curiosity or that I feel very strongly about. Even the forum staff here make it a very unwelcoming experience here. And that’s definitely not good. But nonetheless, that’s what I recommend anyone who is being targeted to do. If mods don’t care, what makes you think that users will?

TL;DR Version - Just gotta take your friendliness and feelings elsewhere, and just use these forums to make your point(s) and ask questions. And if you have problems with the staff, be very careful as you don’t “go to the house to complain about the house” on this particular site. You can get banned for very petty and silly things here (ask me in PM how I know this lol).

Androconium

This is an invitation-only forum, with heavily biased moderation.

There is no toxicity here.

If it doesn't get moderated or shut down, then by definition, it isn't harmful.

Lake

This is the best MMO forum I have ever been to. Additionally, the moderators here are the best I have ever seen for a game.

Tasear

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

It's hard to give an answer. On the whole people here are cool, ive asked many questions here from early on and seen many noobs ask them too and get mega support. I in turn try to help others now my game knowledge has grown.

I think on the whole there's a genuine want to help people.

However then you get the people who just like to cause contentious debate where the point is to farm forum stars etc and that detracts from genuine conversation hence the forum rightly has little tolerance for that.

Some threads sit between the two and people get lambasted unfairly but i think that's the wind up merchants fault for giving everyone no patience.

Lastly what is toxic to one is not to another. There's a current thread calling PvPers toxic for killing PvEers in Cyrodiil which is not toxic at all.

Lastly. I've seen this behaviour on MOST forums, in addition to that gamers are worse and in addition to that fantasy genre folk seem to take debate etc to the next level.

It's also a huge game to be played how the individual wants so views will always differ.

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I don’t know, but it’s been getting dramatically worse and worse. Staff handing out bans over silly stuff, and things like naming and shaming. When in fact they should be banning people who are unnecessarily rude and toxic to people.

When I was a mod on a couple of forums, I always told my colleagues to focus on the flamers and extremely nasty people. Rather than the folks who are being silly, and aren’t bothering nobody. But hey, I’m just speaking off of experiences.

That's also issue. Seems like people are getting rewardes in efforts to flame too. It feels like such atmosphere has recently taken root. For example Everytime knowledge posts a thread. You will find one person mention him in ridicule even before that was doctor ESO. Will I be next?

@Tasear Speaking from the perspective of someone who is both highly-disliked by I’d say the vast majority of forum members, and forum staff alike...? It’s pretty pathetic and horrible how the mob mentality runs rampant here. Before it was Doctor, it was me. And after Doctor, it was Knowledge. And it just snowballs worse and worse.

How I handled it (and how I still do)...? I stopped posting as frequently (I dramatically slowed my roll with affiliating with folks on these forums), and tend to post only on things now that genuinely peak my curiosity or that I feel very strongly about. Even the forum staff here make it a very unwelcoming experience here. And that’s definitely not good. But nonetheless, that’s what I recommend anyone who is being targeted to do. If mods don’t care, what makes you think that users will?

TL;DR Version - Just gotta take your friendliness and feelings elsewhere, and just use these forums to make your point(s) and ask questions. And if you have problems with the staff, be very careful as you don’t “go to the house to complain about the house” on this particular site. You can get banned for very petty and silly things here (ask me in PM how I know this lol).

I know but it's time we speak about it. I like this game..no I often confessed my fandom to work for them.I can't get over genuine creation of it. So I speak about it.

Moderation while better then others leaves reminded of bad customer experience. Not step out of line. That copy text should be look at. It's offensive and leaves bad experience for the vicitim. If I didn't love this game, I would have reconsider my hobbies. Also discussion about moderation is left unchecked as link leads you to general help section.

Responding to bait is considered to be a voilation of forum rules. I discuss this in context of thread topic of issues with forum environment.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843

Maybe it time we get an update to them.

Also on point, that what mean meanful and helpful people are being chased away. People get punished for general willnes to be involved in the community.

On a personal level I want to say not everyone is out to post for points or start wars. Some people just simply care about bigger community at like why would make posts like dragon knight healers or rarest tank in the game, when I should be posting about my favorite sorc Healer.

Some people genuinely care about others and the community. They have questions and desires like male bards, dragons, unicorns, necromancers, auction house. Some have been answered before many times but speaks to issue still existing.

Casual players want auction house so can casually enjoy the game. I hope one day can get something in between. Maybe yard sales.

Whatever I got sidetracked again. Why should I care I am in top trade guilds in the game. So yeah that's my point maybe people don't understand there are people with good intentions.

I also think star system needs reworked. How about badge's instead.

Enjoy myrambling but my goal has been to make people aware. You should not go along with hate and love should not punished. Also I hope zos looks at there forums. There's clearly a track record for bullying which most extreme form of toxicity.

P.S
It's iny nature to advocate issues when they arise. I am lame I wish for a better tommorow.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

I don't think there are really any toxic people here, the forums can get a bit heated but I don't think anyone in particular is actually toxic, just their opinions don't sit well together.

As someone else said, the majority here are here to learn, usually toxic people wouldn't put this effort in. Then again there is the toxic atmosphere in end game eso (I assume the end game players visit here regular), so this kinda contradicts what I say. But the forums themselves don't seem that toxic to me, the real toxic experiences are in game.

Want toxic? Go look at YouTube, some really sad people in the world commenting on there.

Tasear

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom I hope you look at this thread and take some of this heart. It's not people just being people but a community issue on many fronts. I love this game we know this. I bring up my concerns after being in forums for two years. I believe if some of these issues where addressed even the employees at ZOS would have a better time in ESO Forums.

Tasear

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

I don't think there are really any toxic people here, the forums can get a bit heated but I don't think anyone in particular is actually toxic, just their opinions don't sit well together.

As someone else said, the majority here are here to learn, usually toxic people wouldn't put this effort in. Then again there is the toxic atmosphere in end game eso (I assume the end game players visit here regular), so this kinda contradicts what I say. But the forums themselves don't seem that toxic to me, the real toxic experiences are in game.

Want toxic? Go look at YouTube, some really sad people in the world commenting on there.

Yes that what draws people to under scrolls I'm some levels it's the people. I suppose I speak of particular forum of toxicity. We have people in threads who simply set off to bully others or harss for active participation. Such hatefulness iny opinion been recently even more encouraged. So I say it again some people gone a more then a bit out of line.

I really wanted yell at person harssed poor mod from community creation sub thread. not to long ago. Like why would feed good intentions with hate or scorn.

Morgul667

Lots of agressivity

Seldom have nice discussions

Lots of clans too : “pve” “pvp” “dk” “nb” ( and others...) . Those ones tend to criticise each other just because one have advantages the others do not have. Yet we are the first to critisize zos when they make the classes more similar

Something is wrong with us , maybe linked with internet anonimity

LegendaryMage

2014 to early 2015 - forums used to be a lot more chilled and actually enjoyable to read. I don't know what changed but if I had to guess, I'd say that ESO's past required subscription resulted in an overall higher level of maturity, reflecting on the forums as well.

After ESO went B2P I noticed a lot of problematic players showing up. I don't see why that logic wouldn't apply to forums too.

Imagine if it went F2P...

Kodrac

Tasear wrote: »

Moderation while better then others leaves reminded of bad customer experience. Not step out of line. That copy text should be look at. It's offensive and leaves bad experience for the vicitim. If I didn't love this game, I would have reconsider my hobbies. Also discussion about moderation is left unchecked as link leads you to general help section.

Responding to bait is considered to be a voilation of forum rules. I discuss this in context of thread topic of issues with forum environment.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843

Maybe it time we get an update to them.

Also on point, that what mean meanful and helpful people are being chased away. People get punished for general willnes to be involved in the community.

Indeed. Especially the bold (by me) part. I quit about 8 or 9 months ago but before I did I learned not to say anything before figuring out which mod was on duty first. Certain ones were just awful, handing out bans and nastygrams galore, they were just as off putting as the trolls, if not more. Now I"m back one month and I don't recognize any of the mods but there's still the same unwritten ground rule they go by: Protect the instigator, punish the victims. Maybe they quit because it's got to get old or maybe someone higher up realized they were pissing off paying customers.

I'm glad you've brought this up because it's the elephant in the room that no one talks about and it does go largely unchecked.

Teridaxus

The happy and non toxic ones are ingame.

GreenhaloX

As for whatever reason why, there are so many people in real life that are toxic/obnoxious, will steal, cheat, bully, walk over others, and whatever other vices, there are same types of folks using forums and playing same MMO games.

VaranisArano

Teridaxus wrote: »

The happy and non toxic ones are ingame.

I'm posting on the forums while waiting in load screens to get in game to do my writs for the festival...Schrodinger's poster?

STEVIL

Tasear wrote: »

Seems like something we often say in passing but is it true? Obviously not always but I don't recall people saying forums to be positive place.

So let raise some issues that not just effect myself but others.

People posting mutiple threads

There's clear harssment to anyone who does in general section. This done to people discuss old or new topics. Sure moderation is there but I often see things ingored like. So let ask the question that goes along with? Why is a secret taboo to post mutiple threads?

Why do people belittle people for having to many stars?

It's often people get quoted with bettiling comments or forum farming by simply stating something. This seems progressive worst as people get more stars. Why do helpful people get punished?


Why is not okay to defend yourself?

If you have well intentions it best not to respond to baiters or this voliation of forum rules? Yet I often see people belttiled, jeered or harssed even more if say nothing?

There's other issues but making long posts seems be taboo issues too, so state a few others in quick succession, L2P, reroll to different class, necroing, dead horses.

Note: Answer is yes, I am annoyed but I am appart of a bigger issue.

In my experience it is ok to defend your position. It is ok to challenge or even to a small degree attack another's position.

Whenever the "position" in those changes to "self" that is often where the line is crossed.

focus on the post, the points and the position and you are likely fine as far as mods go.
Soon as you start talking about the poster or the person, then it gets dicey.

Sergykid

beacause sorc nb both need to be nerfed

Princess_Ciri

i dont even think the forums are particularly toxic.