Nightblade Ultimate Tank theorycrafting (summerset)

Lynx7386

Given the changes we've seen already for summerset regarding nightblades (notably aoe maim from dark shade, and a huge heal with dark cloak), I've been looking forward to getting my nightblade tank back up and running again.
There is the problem, however, that has plagued nightblades since siphoning attacks was nerfed with morrowind: how to keep up permablock when you have no way of regaining stamina/magicka while blocking. So I've been looking at it from different angles and trying to put something together, and think I've come up with a solution that might work (at least for non-leaderboards content).

The general idea is that, if you want to permablock, you need to be able to restore stamina efficiently while maintaining block. Since the nightblade has no ways of doing that within the class skills, I'm looking at focusing on the use of Shield Wall and maximizing ultimate generation as much as possible in order to keep shield wall available at a relatively high uptime. Shield wall causes you to block all attacks at no cost for 6 seconds even with non-shield weapons equipped and while attacking; so the basic premise is that every time you have shield wall active, you're using heavy attacks to restore stamina while technically not dropping block at all.

So here's the sources of ultimate generation I've put together for the nightblade:
1. Tava's Favor (Crafted set) - Generates 9 ultimate over 3 seconds whenever you dodge an attack. This pairs well with nightblades as they're now the only class with access to major evasion while wearing 5+ heavy armor via Mirage.
2. Hide of the Werewolf - this is a medium armor set, but can be worn on jewelry and either weapons or 2 armor slots. Generates 5 ultimate when you take damage, every 5 seconds.
3. Blood Spawn - 6% chance on taking damage to generate 14 ultimate. Might look into an alternative monster set here but this one is the only one I know of that gives ult.
4. Heroic Slash (1h&Shield) - Grants Minor heroism, giving 6 ultimate over 9 seconds.
5. Transfer (Siphoning Passive) - Grants 2 ultimate every 4 seconds when activating a siphoning ability (i.e. swallow soul or sap essence in this case)

If anyone is aware of any other ultimate granting effects that can be added onto these, I'm open to suggestions.

Liofa

Hello ! First of all let me start by saying there is a way to gain resources while holding block on a NB tank . There is a skill called Leeching Strikes . It costs you 902 Stamina (base cost) at first but gives 4270 after 20 seconds . So basically 3368 Stamina every 20 seconds , meaning 168 Stamina per second . Even more if you can throw some light attacks time to time .

I think the best option for a NB tank that doesn't sacrifice group support by not running Horn is this :

3 Infused Jewelry with Potion Reduction cooldown .
Be Argonian .
Get 21 second cooldown on your potions .
Get 20 Ultimate every 21 seconds with Catalyst passive .
Have all those ultigen sets (Tavas+Dragon+Blood Spawn)
Push warhorns like crazy . Sustain your resources like crazy .

21 second cooldown on your potions means this for an Argonian .

(7582 + 4620) / 21 = 581 Stamina per second . If you use tri-stat potions , it also means 581 Magicka per second . This is completely absurd and broken . I have high doubts that this will go live like this but whatever .

581 from potions + 168 from Leeching Strikes + 189 from Constitution (7 heavy) + 198 Stamina from Shards/Orbs every 20 seconds = 1136 Stamina every second . With this kind of sustain , you don't need Shield-Play on jewelry in most fights . DK has it even better in terms of sustain but yeah as you see NB can permablock in most fights pretty easily while pushing really high ultimate regeneration .

If you really want to keep using Shield Wall , use the Meditation morph that gives Major Protection . Go full ultigen , pop the shield ulti and go meditate . Restore several thousand resources per second while being protected by auto blocking and Major Protection . I don't know what is overpowered if this isn't ^^

aeowulf

I already did this theorycraft about 4 months ago, but didn't post for 2 reasons:

1) Shield Wall is not block, there are some boss mobs that seem to ignore it from a cc immunity perspective. Don't ask me which ones, I stopped testing when I found the first one.

2) Even if it did work, trials want tanks to run horn, so you're back to square one.

My build actually took it a bit further too once I realised number 1 above, also trying out potions of immovability, immovable skill and the darkness ultimate. But that skill also does not grant the same cc immunity as block does, and meant ending up on your bottom at times. Considering how expensive that is re stamina, I was a little suprised. Only block gives that perfectly it seems. (I really hate non-continuity in things like this)

But yes, the theory is sound, just means working out when you need real block.

NB tanks seemed to get a lot of love in the pre-summerset notes. Will not hold my breath though as they are not even on PTS, let alone live. There will still be some shortcomings, but maybe now not so many they are never played. Also some things where they will excel, like ulti generation. It's a good example of cause and effect not being seem. I very much doubt the devs looked at infused potion cost glyphs combined with argonan NB's. (Issue is racial, not class as all classes can be argonian)

ccfeeling

Hi there

usmcjdking

I run a similar build currently on my Bosmer Stamblade with the exception of running War Machine over WW Hide as she'll likely never tank a veteran trial. It's not particularily difficult to maintain a 70%+ uptime on Major Slayer in any 4 man content piece.

The biggest issue with Tava's is that relying entirely on evasion to proc it doesn't make it very strong. If you are using Warhorn I would venture to say that Dragonguard would provide you similar warhorn uptimes with the added benefit of it not being RNG based and having a better4 piece.

In addition, shield wall is not a legitimate replacement for block. It should be used primarily for clutch rezzes and in very few cases stam return (i.e. you just hit like 6 green orbs on velidreth). Not to mention there is a noticeable wait period between Shield Wall's end and being able to resume block (as you cannot actively block with the ult active). In almost every situation I have tanked on my stamblade before, I found Bolstering Darkness to be vastly superior to Shield Wall

aeowulf

Liofa wrote: »

581 from potions + 168 from Leeching Strikes + 189 from Constitution (7 heavy) + 198 Stamina from Shards/Orbs every 20 seconds = 1136 Stamina every second . With this kind of sustain , you don't need Shield-Play on jewelry in most fights . DK has it even better in terms of sustain but yeah as you see NB can permablock in most fights pretty easily while pushing really high ultimate regeneration .

Leeching doesn't really work like that except on paper. Firstly you have to wait 20 seconds before you get that resource return, and for that 20 seconds you are running a deficite of 920 stamina. So a fight lasting under 19 seconds = 920 stamina reduction. Also that +168 is when running at max efficiency, which will never ever happen, you have to presume you will be a few seconds out, which brings it to around say (4270-920)/24 = 140ish, but the difference would mostly be made up by getting a few light attacks in, but then you're not perma blocking. Most of the time you can't really think 20 seconds ahead, unless you are fighting a dummy. Boh skills should either cost the opposite resource, or cost zero and have the returned amount reduced by the same amount. That way recasting early does not hurt - currently it does, for a skill that is not as good as many others.

When you look at how poor it performs (for a tank only) it's borderline not worth slotting for the resources, but it performs great for a DPS, which is how it was balanced before. Templar are in a worse place for resources though. DK have it relatively easy, battle roar (46/ult) giving double the resources per 3 ultimate gained and helping hands. Then warden with around 400/sec from netch and gift. So i'd put both those between double & triple the class resource regen compared to NB, and even more compared to a templar tank. NB get executioner (costs more resources than you get back like helping hands, needs a dead body AND perfect timing) but is currently broken so is a bit irrelevant anyway. Performs so poorly most NB's haven't even noticed this Don't get me started on stamplars... Repentence is so bad it's actively making it so they can't group effectively together/with a templar tank. I am really hoping Repentence will get a look this patch, but i've not noticed this from pre-pts notes i've read so far.

All that said, the increased ulti-gen of NB should make up for the reduced resource regen, and as long as they have enough (which they hopefully will have,) it's all good. No class should be the best in every area of a role, that leads to the major imbalance like we've seen with dk/warden in the tank role over the last year, and we want all classes to be a bit different. I'm getting bored of only really seeing DK/warden tanks and templar/warden healers in pug finder.

Really looking forward to PTS

Lynx7386

Well we'll see if meditation stays the same, I like the idea of shield wall + meditate as a way to get resources back quickly, guess I'll wait and see.

Avran_Sylt

I'm betting the meditate channel will be broken simply by taking any damage. Start off with small restore that ramps up as you continue channeling.

DeadlyRecluse

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

I'm betting the meditate channel will be broken simply by taking any damage. Start off with small restore that ramps up as you continue channeling.

Wouldn't make a lot of sense for one morph to grant minor protection if it breaks on taking damage.

Lynx7386

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

I'm betting the meditate channel will be broken simply by taking any damage. Start off with small restore that ramps up as you continue channeling.

Wouldn't make a lot of sense for one morph to grant minor protection if it breaks on taking damage.

My thoughts as well, though we heard it was major protection not minor

JobooAGS

Liofa wrote: »

Hello ! First of all let me start by saying there is a way to gain resources while holding block on a NB tank . There is a skill called Leeching Strikes . It costs you 902 Stamina (base cost) at first but gives 4270 after 20 seconds . So basically 3368 Stamina every 20 seconds , meaning 168 Stamina per second . Even more if you can throw some light attacks time to time .

I think the best option for a NB tank that doesn't sacrifice group support by not running Horn is this :

3 Infused Jewelry with Potion Reduction cooldown .
Be Argonian .
Get 21 second cooldown on your potions .
Get 20 Ultimate every 21 seconds with Catalyst passive .
Have all those ultigen sets (Tavas+Dragon+Blood Spawn)
Push warhorns like crazy . Sustain your resources like crazy .

21 second cooldown on your potions means this for an Argonian .

(7582 + 4620) / 21 = 581 Stamina per second . If you use tri-stat potions , it also means 581 Magicka per second . This is completely absurd and broken . I have high doubts that this will go live like this but whatever .

581 from potions + 168 from Leeching Strikes + 189 from Constitution (7 heavy) + 198 Stamina from Shards/Orbs every 20 seconds = 1136 Stamina every second . With this kind of sustain , you don't need Shield-Play on jewelry in most fights . DK has it even better in terms of sustain but yeah as you see NB can permablock in most fights pretty easily while pushing really high ultimate regeneration .

If you really want to keep using Shield Wall , use the Meditation morph that gives Major Protection . Go full ultigen , pop the shield ulti and go meditate . Restore several thousand resources per second while being protected by auto blocking and Major Protection . I don't know what is overpowered if this isn't ^^

This sounds broken af

Avran_Sylt

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

I'm betting the meditate channel will be broken simply by taking any damage. Start off with small restore that ramps up as you continue channeling.

Wouldn't make a lot of sense for one morph to grant minor protection if it breaks on taking damage.

Hmm. I completely misread the skill then. This'll be interesting.

GrumpyDuckling

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Given the changes we've seen already for summerset regarding nightblades (notably aoe maim from dark shade, and a huge heal with dark cloak), I've been looking forward to getting my nightblade tank back up and running again.
There is the problem, however, that has plagued nightblades since siphoning attacks was nerfed with morrowind: how to keep up permablock when you have no way of regaining stamina/magicka while blocking. So I've been looking at it from different angles and trying to put something together, and think I've come up with a solution that might work (at least for non-leaderboards content).

The general idea is that, if you want to permablock, you need to be able to restore stamina efficiently while maintaining block. Since the nightblade has no ways of doing that within the class skills, I'm looking at focusing on the use of Shield Wall and maximizing ultimate generation as much as possible in order to keep shield wall available at a relatively high uptime. Shield wall causes you to block all attacks at no cost for 6 seconds even with non-shield weapons equipped and while attacking; so the basic premise is that every time you have shield wall active, you're using heavy attacks to restore stamina while technically not dropping block at all.

So here's the sources of ultimate generation I've put together for the nightblade:
1. Tava's Favor (Crafted set) - Generates 9 ultimate over 3 seconds whenever you dodge an attack. This pairs well with nightblades as they're now the only class with access to major evasion while wearing 5+ heavy armor via Mirage.
2. Hide of the Werewolf - this is a medium armor set, but can be worn on jewelry and either weapons or 2 armor slots. Generates 5 ultimate when you take damage, every 5 seconds.
3. Blood Spawn - 6% chance on taking damage to generate 14 ultimate. Might look into an alternative monster set here but this one is the only one I know of that gives ult.
4. Heroic Slash (1h&Shield) - Grants Minor heroism, giving 6 ultimate over 9 seconds.
5. Transfer (Siphoning Passive) - Grants 2 ultimate every 4 seconds when activating a siphoning ability (i.e. swallow soul or sap essence in this case)

If anyone is aware of any other ultimate granting effects that can be added onto these, I'm open to suggestions.

My Nightblade ultimate generation tank wears the following:

2 pc Bloodspawn
5 pc Tava's (in heavy)
5 pc Cyrodiil's Light

Why Cyrodiil's Light? Because I can use Invigorating Drain to take 15% less damage while I channel and gain ultimate from Invigorating Drain.

Xvorg

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Given the changes we've seen already for summerset regarding nightblades (notably aoe maim from dark shade, and a huge heal with dark cloak), I've been looking forward to getting my nightblade tank back up and running again.
There is the problem, however, that has plagued nightblades since siphoning attacks was nerfed with morrowind: how to keep up permablock when you have no way of regaining stamina/magicka while blocking. So I've been looking at it from different angles and trying to put something together, and think I've come up with a solution that might work (at least for non-leaderboards content).

The general idea is that, if you want to permablock, you need to be able to restore stamina efficiently while maintaining block. Since the nightblade has no ways of doing that within the class skills, I'm looking at focusing on the use of Shield Wall and maximizing ultimate generation as much as possible in order to keep shield wall available at a relatively high uptime. Shield wall causes you to block all attacks at no cost for 6 seconds even with non-shield weapons equipped and while attacking; so the basic premise is that every time you have shield wall active, you're using heavy attacks to restore stamina while technically not dropping block at all.

So here's the sources of ultimate generation I've put together for the nightblade:
1. Tava's Favor (Crafted set) - Generates 9 ultimate over 3 seconds whenever you dodge an attack. This pairs well with nightblades as they're now the only class with access to major evasion while wearing 5+ heavy armor via Mirage.
2. Hide of the Werewolf - this is a medium armor set, but can be worn on jewelry and either weapons or 2 armor slots. Generates 5 ultimate when you take damage, every 5 seconds.
3. Blood Spawn - 6% chance on taking damage to generate 14 ultimate. Might look into an alternative monster set here but this one is the only one I know of that gives ult.
4. Heroic Slash (1h&Shield) - Grants Minor heroism, giving 6 ultimate over 9 seconds.
5. Transfer (Siphoning Passive) - Grants 2 ultimate every 4 seconds when activating a siphoning ability (i.e. swallow soul or sap essence in this case)

If anyone is aware of any other ultimate granting effects that can be added onto these, I'm open to suggestions.

Now you can switch from SB to Ice staff without losing 1 set slot, so you have a window where you can use the staff to regain stam.

GreenhaloX

For the NB tank of mine, I found using Swallow Soul, Refreshing Path and Double Take are the only NB class skillsets to work as a tank. Not sure if it's a bug or working as intended, but I tried using Dark Cloak, but the boss would reset once I go invis, if I'm soloing. If I'm tanking for a group, and I go invis, then the boss will go chase after some other poor dd/dpser. Ha ha. So, I don't use the cloak. I figure the Double Take is good and close enough to a pseudo-shield with its dodge chances.

As far as resource regen, well, definitely get hp back with the Path and Swallow Soul. To get stam back, I just spam heavy attack with the Pierce Armor. I don't really like to permablock as a tank. I prefer to block when needed. I'll spam heavy attack with Pierce Armor throughout. This way, not only will I get stam regen from the barrages of heavy attacks, but I'm also dealing damages and also additional damages inflicted with the Pierce Armor, which also keeps taunt on the boss continuously (well, at least the tauntable bosses; there certain ones that just seem can't be taunt or something.) I also have Razor Caltrops on the other bar, which I'll drop on the boss for added direct and DoT damages. Also, with a 2H on the other bar, I'll take a slice with the Brawler for additional direct and DoT damages. I may take a couple whacks with the Dizzying Swing here and there while the Double Take is active. You can slot and drop Piercing Mark somewhere on the skill bar, but I figured, with Pierce Armor, it's not really necessary to slot the Mark. For the ult, you can't go wrong with the Aggressive Horn.

I do have a pure S&B DK tank which doesn't really do much damages, but can block all day. However, it is just boring for me to just block. It's pretty much why I favor rolling around with my other hybrid dps/tanks.

magictucktuck

I use just tavas and ebon with heroic slash obviously and RIGHT NOW i run swarm mother and use inner beast for raged mobs and can stack everything on me in a few seconds that way and i love it! BUT i cant wait to run bloodspawn and use the chains from fighters guild. as much as a love swarm mother i hate being stuck wearing it out of necessity. now not to say i wont use it from time to time but it would be nice to try out some new helms for more utility than stacking trash mobs

EDIT: and also like greenhaloX i dont usually perma block either just when needed or if i have a lot of mobs on me. and i spam heavy attacks and pierce/slash in between and i don't seem to ever have issues with stamina, if anything i have magicka issues and cant put my path down once in a while lol. but ill probably just change my mundus to magicka recovery i usually just leave it at warrior from pvp since im lazy. but if i did that i wouldn't have any complaints i don't think.

Lynx7386

@GreenhaloX

The new version of dark cloak in summerset no longer makes you invisible, so tanks will be able to use it now. Instead of invisibility, it heals you for 32% of your max health.

I would also recommend you use mirage over double take, as it gives you more spell and physical resistance. You don't need the expedition from double take if you run cripple or path.

@magictucktuck

Swarm mother should hopefully no longer be needed as supposedly silver leash is going to be made into a pull ability for all classes.

I'm anxious to see how shield wall + meditate works out. If it works as expected by @Liofa it will be the go to resource method for all non dk / warden tanks I think.

magictucktuck

Lynx7386 wrote: »

@GreenhaloX

The new version of dark cloak in summerset no longer makes you invisible, so tanks will be able to use it now. Instead of invisibility, it heals you for 32% of your max health.

I would also recommend you use mirage over double take, as it gives you more spell and physical resistance. You don't need the expedition from double take if you run cripple or path.

@magictucktuck

Swarm mother should hopefully no longer be needed as supposedly silver leash is going to be made into a pull ability for all classes.

I'm anxious to see how shield wall + meditate works out. If it works as expected by @Liofa it will be the go to resource method for all non dk / warden tanks I think.

yeah im definitely excited for the heal (mostly to take path off my bar), and i didn't think to much about the new meditate skill but yeah that's probably going to be really nice as long as it can be canceled with block if a boss starts to do a heavy attack. and especially as a NB i seem to have like 4 flex spots so the new skill like and the fighters guild skills are a very welcome change for us NB's to add some more utility

GreenhaloX

Lynx7386 wrote: »

@GreenhaloX

The new version of dark cloak in summerset no longer makes you invisible, so tanks will be able to use it now. Instead of invisibility, it heals you for 32% of your max health.

I would also recommend you use mirage over double take, as it gives you more spell and physical resistance. You don't need the expedition from double take if you run cripple or path.

@magictucktuck

Swarm mother should hopefully no longer be needed as supposedly silver leash is going to be made into a pull ability for all classes.

I'm anxious to see how shield wall + meditate works out. If it works as expected by @Liofa it will be the go to resource method for all non dk / warden tanks I think.

Oh my, that is interesting; healing instead of invis. I did not know that. Hmmm, would be like my stamsorc tank where I use the maj-base Dark Deal for heal, instead of Vigor, to save on stam usage. Also, my bad, yes, I meant Mirage for the tank-wise. I use Double Take for PvP. Thanks for the info and clarification on the Dark Cloak. That is refreshing news..

exeeter702

Naw forget that. Slot aoe maim shade, drop werewolf hide for ..


I run this and tavas with bloodspawn, leaching plus this is cake.

ccfeeling

Yup HL is the best for pet NB tank
Actually its the best set for all pet type tank.
HL took me at least 60 Vma run for the weapon set..
2nd set run Mazzatun or other depends on content and your play style, back bar VMA 1H1S.
But I run Lord Warden instead of blood spawn, i have to keep both resistance as high as possible and group support , warhorn , im not Ultimate type tank.

HL + Leeching for stam return
Balance for mag retun
Vma 1H1S provides both return
Mazzatun support risk management and additional resource return

Another reason I drop blood spawn is the proc rate too low...

Resource management is good, but dlc HM and hard Vtrial still tough to me and nobody trust NB tank btw...

Im so excited with coming change, I think NB and Sorc tank could be the new option , but DK is the best no doubt.

Lynx7386

Can you get hunt leader from normal maelstrom? I'm stick of dealing with VMA (hence why my warden will no longer be trying to get a vma bow)

ccfeeling

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Can you get hunt leader from normal maelstrom? I'm stick of dealing with VMA (hence why my warden will no longer be trying to get a vma bow)

Yes HL weapon and shield both drop in NMA too, i run vet for 1H1S farming and additional rewards mail if i can hit high scores.

HL jewelry only drop blue version in NMA with 3 different traits , stam version farming is gonna crazy, won't drop purple even VMA, actually VMA won't drop rings, i think its a bug... But summerset is gonna let us upgrade to gold and trait reform

Hey Lyn, u can do it, GL.

Lynx7386

Yea since this is for my summerset build the traits and jewelry quality shouldnt be an issue, i can always upgrade them with jewelcrafting and retrait.

victoriana-blue

I'm looking forward to being able to keep two 5pc on both bars, since I backbar an ice staff. Though now I'll need a matching weapon & shield for my front bar instead of mixing up the shield & weapon sets, so that might mean some extra gear grind. XD I want to play around with the psijic skill line too: it sounds like the aoe slow/stun will be a nice option, and if it does damage to entering enemies I'll finally be able to justify dropping blockade from my destro bar (I use it to grab aggro on incoming mobs, plus the chance at slow/maim).

The cost increase to strife concerns me a bit (I use swallow soul/funnel health for the ult and some off heals) and leeching strikes is still a disgrace, but I'm super-excited to experiment with the aoe shades. AOE shades is something I've hoped for for a while, and I've got my fingers crossed it'll be actually be useful. \o/ Same for meditation, because if the devs aren't going to fix the fights to actually give us windows to drop block then they need to give us ways to get meaningful resources back.

Liofa wrote: »

Hello ! First of all let me start by saying there is a way to gain resources while holding block on a NB tank . There is a skill called Leeching Strikes . It costs you 902 Stamina (base cost) at first but gives 4270 after 20 seconds . So basically 3368 Stamina every 20 seconds , meaning 168 Stamina per second . Even more if you can throw some light attacks time to time .

I think the best option for a NB tank that doesn't sacrifice group support by not running Horn is this :

3 Infused Jewelry with Potion Reduction cooldown .
Be Argonian .
Get 21 second cooldown on your potions .
Get 20 Ultimate every 21 seconds with Catalyst passive .
Have all those ultigen sets (Tavas+Dragon+Blood Spawn)
Push warhorns like crazy . Sustain your resources like crazy .

21 second cooldown on your potions means this for an Argonian .

(7582 + 4620) / 21 = 581 Stamina per second . If you use tri-stat potions , it also means 581 Magicka per second . This is completely absurd and broken . I have high doubts that this will go live like this but whatever .

581 from potions + 168 from Leeching Strikes + 189 from Constitution (7 heavy) + 198 Stamina from Shards/Orbs every 20 seconds = 1136 Stamina every second . With this kind of sustain , you don't need Shield-Play on jewelry in most fights . DK has it even better in terms of sustain but yeah as you see NB can permablock in most fights pretty easily while pushing really high ultimate regeneration .

If you really want to keep using Shield Wall , use the Meditation morph that gives Major Protection . Go full ultigen , pop the shield ulti and go meditate . Restore several thousand resources per second while being protected by auto blocking and Major Protection . I don't know what is overpowered if this isn't ^^

Thank you for the numbers!

Can't say they please me, though. Aside from the ult gen, infused + Argonian won't be nb specific and won't help those of us who run non-Argonians. That setup also means foregoing the magicka bonuses from 5:2 or the max resources from 5:1:1, and given how active the nb tank "rotation" is having 2 pieces of light armor makes a difference. I agree, ZOS reallly needs to adjust those numbers - it's not a meaningful choice if it's the only viable option. Also that Leeching return assumes you can let the duration run out; if you need those resources earlier (or get stuck on a bar swap) your net stamina return is a lot lower.

For the set choices, are there any you would sub in for Dragonguard? Max health & healing received are lackluster, and at least Tava has other resource regen and Blood spawn has resistance. Plus that ult regen looks like overkill for trials, at the expense of survivability or resource management. Please correct my math (or bad assumptions) if I'm wrong, but over 63 seconds, assuming 2 attacks per second total from a boss & adds:
3x potion proc = 60 ult
~19 dodges = 171 ult
107 hits = ~6 blood spawn procs = 84 ult
Is 315 ult in 63 seconds = 5 ult per second = one warhorn every 50 seconds or less, or 43 seconds with Dragonguard. That doesn't include siphoning passive procs or the difference standing in red would make (or the longer time on single-target fights).

That's nice for dungeons, but wouldn't that screw up the warhorn rotations in trials? I don't know how an off-healer would keep up so there'd be wasted ult generation, and even if there were lots of adds for a nightblade dps to use for Soul Harvest that dps should be running a damage ult instead.

(Though the thought of Bolstering Darkness every 40/34 seconds sounds a little obscene, since that'd be ~40% Major Protection up time. XD )

victoriana-blue

magictucktuck wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

@GreenhaloX

The new version of dark cloak in summerset no longer makes you invisible, so tanks will be able to use it now. Instead of invisibility, it heals you for 32% of your max health.

I would also recommend you use mirage over double take, as it gives you more spell and physical resistance. You don't need the expedition from double take if you run cripple or path.

@magictucktuck

Swarm mother should hopefully no longer be needed as supposedly silver leash is going to be made into a pull ability for all classes.

I'm anxious to see how shield wall + meditate works out. If it works as expected by @Liofa it will be the go to resource method for all non dk / warden tanks I think.

yeah im definitely excited for the heal (mostly to take path off my bar), and i didn't think to much about the new meditate skill but yeah that's probably going to be really nice as long as it can be canceled with block if a boss starts to do a heavy attack. and especially as a NB i seem to have like 4 flex spots so the new skill like and the fighters guild skills are a very welcome change for us NB's to add some more utility

How will you manage the Shadow Ward & Resolve procs without Path? Shades last 18 seconds, but the proc only lasts 8-11 seconds.

I'm really looking forward to leash too! I love Swarm Mother, but for it to work properly the tank needs to make first contact with mobs and we all know how that goes.

magictucktuck

victoriana-blue wrote: »

magictucktuck wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

@GreenhaloX

The new version of dark cloak in summerset no longer makes you invisible, so tanks will be able to use it now. Instead of invisibility, it heals you for 32% of your max health.

I would also recommend you use mirage over double take, as it gives you more spell and physical resistance. You don't need the expedition from double take if you run cripple or path.

@magictucktuck

Swarm mother should hopefully no longer be needed as supposedly silver leash is going to be made into a pull ability for all classes.

I'm anxious to see how shield wall + meditate works out. If it works as expected by @Liofa it will be the go to resource method for all non dk / warden tanks I think.

yeah im definitely excited for the heal (mostly to take path off my bar), and i didn't think to much about the new meditate skill but yeah that's probably going to be really nice as long as it can be canceled with block if a boss starts to do a heavy attack. and especially as a NB i seem to have like 4 flex spots so the new skill like and the fighters guild skills are a very welcome change for us NB's to add some more utility

How will you manage the Shadow Ward & Resolve procs without Path? Shades last 18 seconds, but the proc only lasts 8-11 seconds.

I'm really looking forward to leash too! I love Swarm Mother, but for it to work properly the tank needs to make first contact with mobs and we all know how that goes.

the heal is in shadow line along with shades @victoriana-blue

victoriana-blue

magictucktuck wrote: »

victoriana-blue wrote: »

magictucktuck wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

@GreenhaloX

The new version of dark cloak in summerset no longer makes you invisible, so tanks will be able to use it now. Instead of invisibility, it heals you for 32% of your max health.

I would also recommend you use mirage over double take, as it gives you more spell and physical resistance. You don't need the expedition from double take if you run cripple or path.

@magictucktuck

Swarm mother should hopefully no longer be needed as supposedly silver leash is going to be made into a pull ability for all classes.

I'm anxious to see how shield wall + meditate works out. If it works as expected by @Liofa it will be the go to resource method for all non dk / warden tanks I think.

yeah im definitely excited for the heal (mostly to take path off my bar), and i didn't think to much about the new meditate skill but yeah that's probably going to be really nice as long as it can be canceled with block if a boss starts to do a heavy attack. and especially as a NB i seem to have like 4 flex spots so the new skill like and the fighters guild skills are a very welcome change for us NB's to add some more utility

How will you manage the Shadow Ward & Resolve procs without Path? Shades last 18 seconds, but the proc only lasts 8-11 seconds.

I'm really looking forward to leash too! I love Swarm Mother, but for it to work properly the tank needs to make first contact with mobs and we all know how that goes.

the heal is in shadow line along with shades @victoriana-blue

True! I'm usually over-healed in group content, so I'm thinking of that morph as an "Oh ***" button. Will you cast it just for the proc then, even when you don't need the heal?

Lynx7386

victoriana-blue wrote: »

magictucktuck wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

@GreenhaloX

The new version of dark cloak in summerset no longer makes you invisible, so tanks will be able to use it now. Instead of invisibility, it heals you for 32% of your max health.

I would also recommend you use mirage over double take, as it gives you more spell and physical resistance. You don't need the expedition from double take if you run cripple or path.

@magictucktuck

Swarm mother should hopefully no longer be needed as supposedly silver leash is going to be made into a pull ability for all classes.

I'm anxious to see how shield wall + meditate works out. If it works as expected by @Liofa it will be the go to resource method for all non dk / warden tanks I think.

yeah im definitely excited for the heal (mostly to take path off my bar), and i didn't think to much about the new meditate skill but yeah that's probably going to be really nice as long as it can be canceled with block if a boss starts to do a heavy attack. and especially as a NB i seem to have like 4 flex spots so the new skill like and the fighters guild skills are a very welcome change for us NB's to add some more utility

How will you manage the Shadow Ward & Resolve procs without Path? Shades last 18 seconds, but the proc only lasts 8-11 seconds.

I'm really looking forward to leash too! I love Swarm Mother, but for it to work properly the tank needs to make first contact with mobs and we all know how that goes.

Dark cloak could be used in place of refreshing path now to keep shadow ward up, since hopefully the duration on the minor protection from dark cloak will match shadow ward (or be close). You'll also be casting shades every other time you need to use dark cloak for shadow ward.

magictucktuck

victoriana-blue wrote: »

magictucktuck wrote: »

victoriana-blue wrote: »

magictucktuck wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

@GreenhaloX

The new version of dark cloak in summerset no longer makes you invisible, so tanks will be able to use it now. Instead of invisibility, it heals you for 32% of your max health.

I would also recommend you use mirage over double take, as it gives you more spell and physical resistance. You don't need the expedition from double take if you run cripple or path.

@magictucktuck

Swarm mother should hopefully no longer be needed as supposedly silver leash is going to be made into a pull ability for all classes.

I'm anxious to see how shield wall + meditate works out. If it works as expected by @Liofa it will be the go to resource method for all non dk / warden tanks I think.

yeah im definitely excited for the heal (mostly to take path off my bar), and i didn't think to much about the new meditate skill but yeah that's probably going to be really nice as long as it can be canceled with block if a boss starts to do a heavy attack. and especially as a NB i seem to have like 4 flex spots so the new skill like and the fighters guild skills are a very welcome change for us NB's to add some more utility

How will you manage the Shadow Ward & Resolve procs without Path? Shades last 18 seconds, but the proc only lasts 8-11 seconds.

I'm really looking forward to leash too! I love Swarm Mother, but for it to work properly the tank needs to make first contact with mobs and we all know how that goes.

the heal is in shadow line along with shades @victoriana-blue

True! I'm usually over-healed in group content, so I'm thinking of that morph as an "Oh ***" button. Will you cast it just for the proc then, even when you don't need the heal?

well ill mostly cast shades when if i know ill take a big hit im thinking, and then yes heal if im already low. but im a full on stamina tank, i dont use magicka for anything but path and evasion right now, so with a little magicka recovery it will be my magicka dump.

RavenSworn

I'm reserving judgement on bolstering darkness changes until it hits pts, there's just too many variables for me to decide if it's a good change or not since it's a change for tanks in general.

I'm loving the shades changes, I did recommended it (though I know I'm not the first) and I felt that it was a good direction towards group support.

All malevolent offering needed was a smart targeting system but I'll take it. Right now if the changes pull through to pts, we would have two instant heals, one scaling via magicka, the other health. My own personal opinion is that nb do not need any instant heals, we already have insane burst damage, if we add good sustain AND instant heals.. The salt in pvp will go overload.

The increased range for soul siphon... Fantastic! That alone can help with a lot of fights in vet dlc or trials.

Now for stam nb tanks, I'd go for hist bark tava bloodspawn combo. With the change to how offering works (it will be a dot rather than direct damage on self) I'm thinking it would proc blood spawn on demand. Werewolf hide is an awesome set but realistically speaking, hist tava is the way to go.

But imo, magnb tanks are where we will truly shine as a tank with summerset. On demand self heals scale to health? Sap essence? Refreshing path? Malevolent offering now an instant burst heal cast with a dot to health for cost? Swallow soul? Dark cloak? Shades now giving minor maim, soul siphon now with an increased range.. Leash, orbs.. Using dragon guard with spc, you can even double bar frost staff with no loss to the 5-5-2 setup. Or using ebon with spc?