Why Master at Arms?

madchuska83

Seems like every build including magicka are dumping lots of CP into Master-at-Arms after the DB patch. I'm no numbers guy so I'm just blindly following suit. So what gives? Why am I dumping my points into direct damage instead of DoT for a Magsorc?

Nelson_Rebel

Because off-balance for exploiter was the only reason people put alot into thaum in the first place.


Now that off-balance was severely nerfed its just useless to have exploiter and better to have more direct damage

Nelson_Rebel

They haven't finished nerfing all dps into the ground yet so their streak must continue until no one is able kill anything

WrathOfInnos

It's still worth putting 75 into Thaumaturge. The off-balance nerf was most detrimental to heavy attack builds, which invested some into staff expert. Additionally, the improved synergies are allowing great Alkosh uptime in optimized groups, so fewer points in spell erosion are needed. These extra points have to go somewhere, and elf born, thaum, and elemental expert are starting to get to the point of significant diminishing return.

Master at arms is the best place to invest them for a Sorc (especially with the shift from heavy attacks to spammables). It buffs the damage of curse, force pulse, clench (initial hit), endless fury/Mage's wrath, the initial hit of meteor, the final explosion of unstable wall, all light attacks, inferno heavy attacks, pet basic attacks. All of these add up to about half of your damage, making it about as valuable as thaumaturge and elf born.

Chilly-McFreeze

For pvp or pve? Pvp stamina medium armor builds profit from the passive that procs off Balance on dodge (shuffle, roll), the 120cp Passive. MaA has the broadest benefit. Maybe thats a reason.

hedna123b14_ESO

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It's still worth putting 75 into Thaumaturge. The off-balance nerf was most detrimental to heavy attack builds, which invested some into staff expert. Additionally, the improved synergies are allowing great Alkosh uptime in optimized groups, so fewer points in spell erosion are needed. These extra points have to go somewhere, and elf born, thaum, and elemental expert are starting to get to the point of significant diminishing return.

Master at arms is the best place to invest them for a Sorc (especially with the shift from heavy attacks to spammables). It buffs the damage of curse, force pulse, clench (initial hit), endless fury/Mage's wrath, the initial hit of meteor, the final explosion of unstable wall, all light attacks, inferno heavy attacks, pet basic attacks. All of these add up to about half of your damage, making it about as valuable as thaumaturge and elf born.

You only do 75 in thaum of you run a petsorc. For no pet it's no longer the case

WrathOfInnos

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It's still worth putting 75 into Thaumaturge. The off-balance nerf was most detrimental to heavy attack builds, which invested some into staff expert. Additionally, the improved synergies are allowing great Alkosh uptime in optimized groups, so fewer points in spell erosion are needed. These extra points have to go somewhere, and elf born, thaum, and elemental expert are starting to get to the point of significant diminishing return.

Master at arms is the best place to invest them for a Sorc (especially with the shift from heavy attacks to spammables). It buffs the damage of curse, force pulse, clench (initial hit), endless fury/Mage's wrath, the initial hit of meteor, the final explosion of unstable wall, all light attacks, inferno heavy attacks, pet basic attacks. All of these add up to about half of your damage, making it about as valuable as thaumaturge and elf born.

You only do 75 in thaum of you run a petsorc. For no pet it's no longer the case

Disagree. Even at 25% uptime it results in 2.5% average increase in damage. 75 thaum is not that far from optimal (around 56 depending on build) if you are not over invested in spell erosion.

The additional 19 points in thaum add 3% to DoTs (20% up to 23%), which are about half of a Sorc's damage, so 1.5% increase overall. That 1.5 added to the 2.5 from exploiter is 4% damage increase from 19 CPs. There is no other place these 19 points could be placed to get comparable benefit.

All of the above is for single target DPS against a boss. Trash can still get much higher off-balance uptime so exploiter is even more effective.

Liofa

Most Magicka builds have a lot of Burning Status effect DPS . As it is a Single Target DoT and have a lot of uptime , especially on a Asylum Staff user , Master At Arms becomes really valuable . Buffing your spammable + light attacks + Burning Status + Enchants + Class skills that are single target (like curse , funnel health , mages wrath , impale etc.) will provide more DPS compared to just buffing two AOE damage skills .

For Pet Sorcerers , it is slightly different . They have more into Thaumaturge . I heard Thaumaturge is bugged and doesn't affect Scamp active skill but might be wrong , need to test later or someone to confirm .

CaliMade

Frag is direct damage- force pulse is also direct damage. Anything that does not say Deals x amount of damage over y seconds is direct damage.

Except Jabs o_o

hedna123b14_ESO

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It's still worth putting 75 into Thaumaturge. The off-balance nerf was most detrimental to heavy attack builds, which invested some into staff expert. Additionally, the improved synergies are allowing great Alkosh uptime in optimized groups, so fewer points in spell erosion are needed. These extra points have to go somewhere, and elf born, thaum, and elemental expert are starting to get to the point of significant diminishing return.

Master at arms is the best place to invest them for a Sorc (especially with the shift from heavy attacks to spammables). It buffs the damage of curse, force pulse, clench (initial hit), endless fury/Mage's wrath, the initial hit of meteor, the final explosion of unstable wall, all light attacks, inferno heavy attacks, pet basic attacks. All of these add up to about half of your damage, making it about as valuable as thaumaturge and elf born.

You only do 75 in thaum of you run a petsorc. For no pet it's no longer the case

Disagree. Even at 25% uptime it results in 2.5% average increase in damage. 75 thaum is not that far from optimal (around 56 depending on build) if you are not over invested in spell erosion.

The additional 19 points in thaum add 3% to DoTs (20% up to 23%), which are about half of a Sorc's damage, so 1.5% increase overall. That 1.5 added to the 2.5 from exploiter is 4% damage increase from 19 CPs. There is no other place these 19 points could be placed to get comparable benefit.

All of the above is for single target DPS against a boss. Trash can still get much higher off-balance uptime so exploiter is even more effective.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It's still worth putting 75 into Thaumaturge. The off-balance nerf was most detrimental to heavy attack builds, which invested some into staff expert. Additionally, the improved synergies are allowing great Alkosh uptime in optimized groups, so fewer points in spell erosion are needed. These extra points have to go somewhere, and elf born, thaum, and elemental expert are starting to get to the point of significant diminishing return.

Master at arms is the best place to invest them for a Sorc (especially with the shift from heavy attacks to spammables). It buffs the damage of curse, force pulse, clench (initial hit), endless fury/Mage's wrath, the initial hit of meteor, the final explosion of unstable wall, all light attacks, inferno heavy attacks, pet basic attacks. All of these add up to about half of your damage, making it about as valuable as thaumaturge and elf born.

You only do 75 in thaum of you run a petsorc. For no pet it's no longer the case

Disagree. Even at 25% uptime it results in 2.5% average increase in damage. 75 thaum is not that far from optimal (around 56 depending on build) if you are not over invested in spell erosion.

The additional 19 points in thaum add 3% to DoTs (20% up to 23%), which are about half of a Sorc's damage, so 1.5% increase overall. That 1.5 added to the 2.5 from exploiter is 4% damage increase from 19 CPs. There is no other place these 19 points could be placed to get comparable benefit.

All of the above is for single target DPS against a boss. Trash can still get much higher off-balance uptime so exploiter is even more effective.

I'm just letting you know what people with the best parses run...

getemshauna

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It's still worth putting 75 into Thaumaturge. The off-balance nerf was most detrimental to heavy attack builds, which invested some into staff expert. Additionally, the improved synergies are allowing great Alkosh uptime in optimized groups, so fewer points in spell erosion are needed. These extra points have to go somewhere, and elf born, thaum, and elemental expert are starting to get to the point of significant diminishing return.

Master at arms is the best place to invest them for a Sorc (especially with the shift from heavy attacks to spammables). It buffs the damage of curse, force pulse, clench (initial hit), endless fury/Mage's wrath, the initial hit of meteor, the final explosion of unstable wall, all light attacks, inferno heavy attacks, pet basic attacks. All of these add up to about half of your damage, making it about as valuable as thaumaturge and elf born.

You only do 75 in thaum of you run a petsorc. For no pet it's no longer the case

Disagree. Even at 25% uptime it results in 2.5% average increase in damage. 75 thaum is not that far from optimal (around 56 depending on build) if you are not over invested in spell erosion.

The additional 19 points in thaum add 3% to DoTs (20% up to 23%), which are about half of a Sorc's damage, so 1.5% increase overall. That 1.5 added to the 2.5 from exploiter is 4% damage increase from 19 CPs. There is no other place these 19 points could be placed to get comparable benefit.

All of the above is for single target DPS against a boss. Trash can still get much higher off-balance uptime so exploiter is even more effective.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It's still worth putting 75 into Thaumaturge. The off-balance nerf was most detrimental to heavy attack builds, which invested some into staff expert. Additionally, the improved synergies are allowing great Alkosh uptime in optimized groups, so fewer points in spell erosion are needed. These extra points have to go somewhere, and elf born, thaum, and elemental expert are starting to get to the point of significant diminishing return.

Master at arms is the best place to invest them for a Sorc (especially with the shift from heavy attacks to spammables). It buffs the damage of curse, force pulse, clench (initial hit), endless fury/Mage's wrath, the initial hit of meteor, the final explosion of unstable wall, all light attacks, inferno heavy attacks, pet basic attacks. All of these add up to about half of your damage, making it about as valuable as thaumaturge and elf born.

You only do 75 in thaum of you run a petsorc. For no pet it's no longer the case

Disagree. Even at 25% uptime it results in 2.5% average increase in damage. 75 thaum is not that far from optimal (around 56 depending on build) if you are not over invested in spell erosion.

The additional 19 points in thaum add 3% to DoTs (20% up to 23%), which are about half of a Sorc's damage, so 1.5% increase overall. That 1.5 added to the 2.5 from exploiter is 4% damage increase from 19 CPs. There is no other place these 19 points could be placed to get comparable benefit.

All of the above is for single target DPS against a boss. Trash can still get much higher off-balance uptime so exploiter is even more effective.

I'm just letting you know what people with the best parses run...

So you're wrong. I have no idea what parses you have seen, but exploiter is crucial in every magsorc build.

WrathOfInnos

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It's still worth putting 75 into Thaumaturge. The off-balance nerf was most detrimental to heavy attack builds, which invested some into staff expert. Additionally, the improved synergies are allowing great Alkosh uptime in optimized groups, so fewer points in spell erosion are needed. These extra points have to go somewhere, and elf born, thaum, and elemental expert are starting to get to the point of significant diminishing return.

Master at arms is the best place to invest them for a Sorc (especially with the shift from heavy attacks to spammables). It buffs the damage of curse, force pulse, clench (initial hit), endless fury/Mage's wrath, the initial hit of meteor, the final explosion of unstable wall, all light attacks, inferno heavy attacks, pet basic attacks. All of these add up to about half of your damage, making it about as valuable as thaumaturge and elf born.

You only do 75 in thaum of you run a petsorc. For no pet it's no longer the case

Disagree. Even at 25% uptime it results in 2.5% average increase in damage. 75 thaum is not that far from optimal (around 56 depending on build) if you are not over invested in spell erosion.

The additional 19 points in thaum add 3% to DoTs (20% up to 23%), which are about half of a Sorc's damage, so 1.5% increase overall. That 1.5 added to the 2.5 from exploiter is 4% damage increase from 19 CPs. There is no other place these 19 points could be placed to get comparable benefit.

All of the above is for single target DPS against a boss. Trash can still get much higher off-balance uptime so exploiter is even more effective.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It's still worth putting 75 into Thaumaturge. The off-balance nerf was most detrimental to heavy attack builds, which invested some into staff expert. Additionally, the improved synergies are allowing great Alkosh uptime in optimized groups, so fewer points in spell erosion are needed. These extra points have to go somewhere, and elf born, thaum, and elemental expert are starting to get to the point of significant diminishing return.

Master at arms is the best place to invest them for a Sorc (especially with the shift from heavy attacks to spammables). It buffs the damage of curse, force pulse, clench (initial hit), endless fury/Mage's wrath, the initial hit of meteor, the final explosion of unstable wall, all light attacks, inferno heavy attacks, pet basic attacks. All of these add up to about half of your damage, making it about as valuable as thaumaturge and elf born.

You only do 75 in thaum of you run a petsorc. For no pet it's no longer the case

Disagree. Even at 25% uptime it results in 2.5% average increase in damage. 75 thaum is not that far from optimal (around 56 depending on build) if you are not over invested in spell erosion.

The additional 19 points in thaum add 3% to DoTs (20% up to 23%), which are about half of a Sorc's damage, so 1.5% increase overall. That 1.5 added to the 2.5 from exploiter is 4% damage increase from 19 CPs. There is no other place these 19 points could be placed to get comparable benefit.

All of the above is for single target DPS against a boss. Trash can still get much higher off-balance uptime so exploiter is even more effective.

I'm just letting you know what people with the best parses run...

Examples please. Live parses (not skeletons) along with CP spread and rotation.

I don't believe there's much more than 1% DPS difference between Exploiter and non, but I have a hard time believing the "best" parsing sorcs do not use it.

Runefang

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It's still worth putting 75 into Thaumaturge. The off-balance nerf was most detrimental to heavy attack builds, which invested some into staff expert. Additionally, the improved synergies are allowing great Alkosh uptime in optimized groups, so fewer points in spell erosion are needed. These extra points have to go somewhere, and elf born, thaum, and elemental expert are starting to get to the point of significant diminishing return.

Master at arms is the best place to invest them for a Sorc (especially with the shift from heavy attacks to spammables). It buffs the damage of curse, force pulse, clench (initial hit), endless fury/Mage's wrath, the initial hit of meteor, the final explosion of unstable wall, all light attacks, inferno heavy attacks, pet basic attacks. All of these add up to about half of your damage, making it about as valuable as thaumaturge and elf born.

You only do 75 in thaum of you run a petsorc. For no pet it's no longer the case

Disagree. Even at 25% uptime it results in 2.5% average increase in damage. 75 thaum is not that far from optimal (around 56 depending on build) if you are not over invested in spell erosion.

The additional 19 points in thaum add 3% to DoTs (20% up to 23%), which are about half of a Sorc's damage, so 1.5% increase overall. That 1.5 added to the 2.5 from exploiter is 4% damage increase from 19 CPs. There is no other place these 19 points could be placed to get comparable benefit.

All of the above is for single target DPS against a boss. Trash can still get much higher off-balance uptime so exploiter is even more effective.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It's still worth putting 75 into Thaumaturge. The off-balance nerf was most detrimental to heavy attack builds, which invested some into staff expert. Additionally, the improved synergies are allowing great Alkosh uptime in optimized groups, so fewer points in spell erosion are needed. These extra points have to go somewhere, and elf born, thaum, and elemental expert are starting to get to the point of significant diminishing return.

Master at arms is the best place to invest them for a Sorc (especially with the shift from heavy attacks to spammables). It buffs the damage of curse, force pulse, clench (initial hit), endless fury/Mage's wrath, the initial hit of meteor, the final explosion of unstable wall, all light attacks, inferno heavy attacks, pet basic attacks. All of these add up to about half of your damage, making it about as valuable as thaumaturge and elf born.

You only do 75 in thaum of you run a petsorc. For no pet it's no longer the case

Disagree. Even at 25% uptime it results in 2.5% average increase in damage. 75 thaum is not that far from optimal (around 56 depending on build) if you are not over invested in spell erosion.

The additional 19 points in thaum add 3% to DoTs (20% up to 23%), which are about half of a Sorc's damage, so 1.5% increase overall. That 1.5 added to the 2.5 from exploiter is 4% damage increase from 19 CPs. There is no other place these 19 points could be placed to get comparable benefit.

All of the above is for single target DPS against a boss. Trash can still get much higher off-balance uptime so exploiter is even more effective.

I'm just letting you know what people with the best parses run...

Examples please. Live parses (not skeletons) along with CP spread and rotation.

I don't believe there's much more than 1% DPS difference between Exploiter and non, but I have a hard time believing the "best" parsing sorcs do not use it.

Only pet sorcs use it because they're more reliant on DoTs.

The 'best' sorcs don't use it because they're running perfected AS staffs, no pets and are spamming force pulse a lot. Their jobs is to provide a 100% minor vulnerability up-time in a trial.

If there is as little difference as 1% between exploiter and no exploiter, in reality it's better to not have it. I know my direct damage will always be boosted by MaA while if off-balance procs when I'm dealing with mechanics its a DPS loss.

getemshauna

Runefang wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It's still worth putting 75 into Thaumaturge. The off-balance nerf was most detrimental to heavy attack builds, which invested some into staff expert. Additionally, the improved synergies are allowing great Alkosh uptime in optimized groups, so fewer points in spell erosion are needed. These extra points have to go somewhere, and elf born, thaum, and elemental expert are starting to get to the point of significant diminishing return.

Master at arms is the best place to invest them for a Sorc (especially with the shift from heavy attacks to spammables). It buffs the damage of curse, force pulse, clench (initial hit), endless fury/Mage's wrath, the initial hit of meteor, the final explosion of unstable wall, all light attacks, inferno heavy attacks, pet basic attacks. All of these add up to about half of your damage, making it about as valuable as thaumaturge and elf born.

You only do 75 in thaum of you run a petsorc. For no pet it's no longer the case

Disagree. Even at 25% uptime it results in 2.5% average increase in damage. 75 thaum is not that far from optimal (around 56 depending on build) if you are not over invested in spell erosion.

The additional 19 points in thaum add 3% to DoTs (20% up to 23%), which are about half of a Sorc's damage, so 1.5% increase overall. That 1.5 added to the 2.5 from exploiter is 4% damage increase from 19 CPs. There is no other place these 19 points could be placed to get comparable benefit.

All of the above is for single target DPS against a boss. Trash can still get much higher off-balance uptime so exploiter is even more effective.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It's still worth putting 75 into Thaumaturge. The off-balance nerf was most detrimental to heavy attack builds, which invested some into staff expert. Additionally, the improved synergies are allowing great Alkosh uptime in optimized groups, so fewer points in spell erosion are needed. These extra points have to go somewhere, and elf born, thaum, and elemental expert are starting to get to the point of significant diminishing return.

Master at arms is the best place to invest them for a Sorc (especially with the shift from heavy attacks to spammables). It buffs the damage of curse, force pulse, clench (initial hit), endless fury/Mage's wrath, the initial hit of meteor, the final explosion of unstable wall, all light attacks, inferno heavy attacks, pet basic attacks. All of these add up to about half of your damage, making it about as valuable as thaumaturge and elf born.

You only do 75 in thaum of you run a petsorc. For no pet it's no longer the case

Disagree. Even at 25% uptime it results in 2.5% average increase in damage. 75 thaum is not that far from optimal (around 56 depending on build) if you are not over invested in spell erosion.

The additional 19 points in thaum add 3% to DoTs (20% up to 23%), which are about half of a Sorc's damage, so 1.5% increase overall. That 1.5 added to the 2.5 from exploiter is 4% damage increase from 19 CPs. There is no other place these 19 points could be placed to get comparable benefit.

All of the above is for single target DPS against a boss. Trash can still get much higher off-balance uptime so exploiter is even more effective.

I'm just letting you know what people with the best parses run...

Examples please. Live parses (not skeletons) along with CP spread and rotation.

I don't believe there's much more than 1% DPS difference between Exploiter and non, but I have a hard time believing the "best" parsing sorcs do not use it.

Only pet sorcs use it because they're more reliant on DoTs.

The 'best' sorcs don't use it because they're running perfected AS staffs, no pets and are spamming force pulse a lot. Their jobs is to provide a 100% minor vulnerability up-time in a trial.

If there is as little difference as 1% between exploiter and no exploiter, in reality it's better to not have it. I know my direct damage will always be boosted by MaA while if off-balance procs when I'm dealing with mechanics its a DPS loss.

Having good burning uptime from Perfected Asylum Staff is significant - that is why sorcs don't want to swap force pulses - so they put LL on frontbar, and refresh curse every second rotation.
Burning is a DOT damage, what is another reason to grab some thaumaturge points, on top of exploiter.
Sorcs also have expensive ultimates, Storm Atro has 200 ultimate cost, so dropping it when target is offbalanced is quite important. It's a huge dps increase.
Here you can find my friend Liko's parse, what is IMO one of those "best" parses. He uses exploiter, as you can see.
https://youtu.be/yRXnsBXu6SU

WrathOfInnos

Runefang wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It's still worth putting 75 into Thaumaturge. The off-balance nerf was most detrimental to heavy attack builds, which invested some into staff expert. Additionally, the improved synergies are allowing great Alkosh uptime in optimized groups, so fewer points in spell erosion are needed. These extra points have to go somewhere, and elf born, thaum, and elemental expert are starting to get to the point of significant diminishing return.

Master at arms is the best place to invest them for a Sorc (especially with the shift from heavy attacks to spammables). It buffs the damage of curse, force pulse, clench (initial hit), endless fury/Mage's wrath, the initial hit of meteor, the final explosion of unstable wall, all light attacks, inferno heavy attacks, pet basic attacks. All of these add up to about half of your damage, making it about as valuable as thaumaturge and elf born.

You only do 75 in thaum of you run a petsorc. For no pet it's no longer the case

Disagree. Even at 25% uptime it results in 2.5% average increase in damage. 75 thaum is not that far from optimal (around 56 depending on build) if you are not over invested in spell erosion.

The additional 19 points in thaum add 3% to DoTs (20% up to 23%), which are about half of a Sorc's damage, so 1.5% increase overall. That 1.5 added to the 2.5 from exploiter is 4% damage increase from 19 CPs. There is no other place these 19 points could be placed to get comparable benefit.

All of the above is for single target DPS against a boss. Trash can still get much higher off-balance uptime so exploiter is even more effective.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It's still worth putting 75 into Thaumaturge. The off-balance nerf was most detrimental to heavy attack builds, which invested some into staff expert. Additionally, the improved synergies are allowing great Alkosh uptime in optimized groups, so fewer points in spell erosion are needed. These extra points have to go somewhere, and elf born, thaum, and elemental expert are starting to get to the point of significant diminishing return.

Master at arms is the best place to invest them for a Sorc (especially with the shift from heavy attacks to spammables). It buffs the damage of curse, force pulse, clench (initial hit), endless fury/Mage's wrath, the initial hit of meteor, the final explosion of unstable wall, all light attacks, inferno heavy attacks, pet basic attacks. All of these add up to about half of your damage, making it about as valuable as thaumaturge and elf born.

You only do 75 in thaum of you run a petsorc. For no pet it's no longer the case

Disagree. Even at 25% uptime it results in 2.5% average increase in damage. 75 thaum is not that far from optimal (around 56 depending on build) if you are not over invested in spell erosion.

The additional 19 points in thaum add 3% to DoTs (20% up to 23%), which are about half of a Sorc's damage, so 1.5% increase overall. That 1.5 added to the 2.5 from exploiter is 4% damage increase from 19 CPs. There is no other place these 19 points could be placed to get comparable benefit.

All of the above is for single target DPS against a boss. Trash can still get much higher off-balance uptime so exploiter is even more effective.

I'm just letting you know what people with the best parses run...

Examples please. Live parses (not skeletons) along with CP spread and rotation.

I don't believe there's much more than 1% DPS difference between Exploiter and non, but I have a hard time believing the "best" parsing sorcs do not use it.

Only pet sorcs use it because they're more reliant on DoTs.

The 'best' sorcs don't use it because they're running perfected AS staffs, no pets and are spamming force pulse a lot. Their jobs is to provide a 100% minor vulnerability up-time in a trial.

If there is as little difference as 1% between exploiter and no exploiter, in reality it's better to not have it. I know my direct damage will always be boosted by MaA while if off-balance procs when I'm dealing with mechanics its a DPS loss.

How is losing 1% better than maximizing DPS?

And even with a petless spammable rotation, DoTs contribute anywhere from 40-50% of a sorc's DPS. Thaumaturge buffs liquid lightning, wall of elements, all your ultimates (storm, meteor, and atronach), Ilambris, burning, lightning heavy attacks, and the DoT from clench (if not using force pulse).

Both Thaumaturge and Master at Arms are very important to sorc DPS.

hedna123b14_ESO

gethemshauna wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It's still worth putting 75 into Thaumaturge. The off-balance nerf was most detrimental to heavy attack builds, which invested some into staff expert. Additionally, the improved synergies are allowing great Alkosh uptime in optimized groups, so fewer points in spell erosion are needed. These extra points have to go somewhere, and elf born, thaum, and elemental expert are starting to get to the point of significant diminishing return.

Master at arms is the best place to invest them for a Sorc (especially with the shift from heavy attacks to spammables). It buffs the damage of curse, force pulse, clench (initial hit), endless fury/Mage's wrath, the initial hit of meteor, the final explosion of unstable wall, all light attacks, inferno heavy attacks, pet basic attacks. All of these add up to about half of your damage, making it about as valuable as thaumaturge and elf born.

You only do 75 in thaum of you run a petsorc. For no pet it's no longer the case

Disagree. Even at 25% uptime it results in 2.5% average increase in damage. 75 thaum is not that far from optimal (around 56 depending on build) if you are not over invested in spell erosion.

The additional 19 points in thaum add 3% to DoTs (20% up to 23%), which are about half of a Sorc's damage, so 1.5% increase overall. That 1.5 added to the 2.5 from exploiter is 4% damage increase from 19 CPs. There is no other place these 19 points could be placed to get comparable benefit.

All of the above is for single target DPS against a boss. Trash can still get much higher off-balance uptime so exploiter is even more effective.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It's still worth putting 75 into Thaumaturge. The off-balance nerf was most detrimental to heavy attack builds, which invested some into staff expert. Additionally, the improved synergies are allowing great Alkosh uptime in optimized groups, so fewer points in spell erosion are needed. These extra points have to go somewhere, and elf born, thaum, and elemental expert are starting to get to the point of significant diminishing return.

Master at arms is the best place to invest them for a Sorc (especially with the shift from heavy attacks to spammables). It buffs the damage of curse, force pulse, clench (initial hit), endless fury/Mage's wrath, the initial hit of meteor, the final explosion of unstable wall, all light attacks, inferno heavy attacks, pet basic attacks. All of these add up to about half of your damage, making it about as valuable as thaumaturge and elf born.

You only do 75 in thaum of you run a petsorc. For no pet it's no longer the case

Disagree. Even at 25% uptime it results in 2.5% average increase in damage. 75 thaum is not that far from optimal (around 56 depending on build) if you are not over invested in spell erosion.

The additional 19 points in thaum add 3% to DoTs (20% up to 23%), which are about half of a Sorc's damage, so 1.5% increase overall. That 1.5 added to the 2.5 from exploiter is 4% damage increase from 19 CPs. There is no other place these 19 points could be placed to get comparable benefit.

All of the above is for single target DPS against a boss. Trash can still get much higher off-balance uptime so exploiter is even more effective.

I'm just letting you know what people with the best parses run...

Examples please. Live parses (not skeletons) along with CP spread and rotation.

I don't believe there's much more than 1% DPS difference between Exploiter and non, but I have a hard time believing the "best" parsing sorcs do not use it.

Only pet sorcs use it because they're more reliant on DoTs.

The 'best' sorcs don't use it because they're running perfected AS staffs, no pets and are spamming force pulse a lot. Their jobs is to provide a 100% minor vulnerability up-time in a trial.

If there is as little difference as 1% between exploiter and no exploiter, in reality it's better to not have it. I know my direct damage will always be boosted by MaA while if off-balance procs when I'm dealing with mechanics its a DPS loss.

Having good burning uptime from Perfected Asylum Staff is significant - that is why sorcs don't want to swap force pulses - so they put LL on frontbar, and refresh curse every second rotation.
Burning is a DOT damage, what is another reason to grab some thaumaturge points, on top of exploiter.
Sorcs also have expensive ultimates, Storm Atro has 200 ultimate cost, so dropping it when target is offbalanced is quite important. It's a huge dps increase.
Here you can find my friend Liko's parse, what is IMO one of those "best" parses. He uses exploiter, as you can see.
https://youtu.be/yRXnsBXu6SU

gethemshauna wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It's still worth putting 75 into Thaumaturge. The off-balance nerf was most detrimental to heavy attack builds, which invested some into staff expert. Additionally, the improved synergies are allowing great Alkosh uptime in optimized groups, so fewer points in spell erosion are needed. These extra points have to go somewhere, and elf born, thaum, and elemental expert are starting to get to the point of significant diminishing return.

Master at arms is the best place to invest them for a Sorc (especially with the shift from heavy attacks to spammables). It buffs the damage of curse, force pulse, clench (initial hit), endless fury/Mage's wrath, the initial hit of meteor, the final explosion of unstable wall, all light attacks, inferno heavy attacks, pet basic attacks. All of these add up to about half of your damage, making it about as valuable as thaumaturge and elf born.

You only do 75 in thaum of you run a petsorc. For no pet it's no longer the case

Disagree. Even at 25% uptime it results in 2.5% average increase in damage. 75 thaum is not that far from optimal (around 56 depending on build) if you are not over invested in spell erosion.

The additional 19 points in thaum add 3% to DoTs (20% up to 23%), which are about half of a Sorc's damage, so 1.5% increase overall. That 1.5 added to the 2.5 from exploiter is 4% damage increase from 19 CPs. There is no other place these 19 points could be placed to get comparable benefit.

All of the above is for single target DPS against a boss. Trash can still get much higher off-balance uptime so exploiter is even more effective.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It's still worth putting 75 into Thaumaturge. The off-balance nerf was most detrimental to heavy attack builds, which invested some into staff expert. Additionally, the improved synergies are allowing great Alkosh uptime in optimized groups, so fewer points in spell erosion are needed. These extra points have to go somewhere, and elf born, thaum, and elemental expert are starting to get to the point of significant diminishing return.

Master at arms is the best place to invest them for a Sorc (especially with the shift from heavy attacks to spammables). It buffs the damage of curse, force pulse, clench (initial hit), endless fury/Mage's wrath, the initial hit of meteor, the final explosion of unstable wall, all light attacks, inferno heavy attacks, pet basic attacks. All of these add up to about half of your damage, making it about as valuable as thaumaturge and elf born.

You only do 75 in thaum of you run a petsorc. For no pet it's no longer the case

Disagree. Even at 25% uptime it results in 2.5% average increase in damage. 75 thaum is not that far from optimal (around 56 depending on build) if you are not over invested in spell erosion.

The additional 19 points in thaum add 3% to DoTs (20% up to 23%), which are about half of a Sorc's damage, so 1.5% increase overall. That 1.5 added to the 2.5 from exploiter is 4% damage increase from 19 CPs. There is no other place these 19 points could be placed to get comparable benefit.

All of the above is for single target DPS against a boss. Trash can still get much higher off-balance uptime so exploiter is even more effective.

I'm just letting you know what people with the best parses run...

So you're wrong. I have no idea what parses you have seen, but exploiter is crucial in every magsorc build.

Your friends parses are very nice:) this is what our sorcs get without 75 in thaum:

gethemshauna wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It's still worth putting 75 into Thaumaturge. The off-balance nerf was most detrimental to heavy attack builds, which invested some into staff expert. Additionally, the improved synergies are allowing great Alkosh uptime in optimized groups, so fewer points in spell erosion are needed. These extra points have to go somewhere, and elf born, thaum, and elemental expert are starting to get to the point of significant diminishing return.

Master at arms is the best place to invest them for a Sorc (especially with the shift from heavy attacks to spammables). It buffs the damage of curse, force pulse, clench (initial hit), endless fury/Mage's wrath, the initial hit of meteor, the final explosion of unstable wall, all light attacks, inferno heavy attacks, pet basic attacks. All of these add up to about half of your damage, making it about as valuable as thaumaturge and elf born.

You only do 75 in thaum of you run a petsorc. For no pet it's no longer the case

Disagree. Even at 25% uptime it results in 2.5% average increase in damage. 75 thaum is not that far from optimal (around 56 depending on build) if you are not over invested in spell erosion.

The additional 19 points in thaum add 3% to DoTs (20% up to 23%), which are about half of a Sorc's damage, so 1.5% increase overall. That 1.5 added to the 2.5 from exploiter is 4% damage increase from 19 CPs. There is no other place these 19 points could be placed to get comparable benefit.

All of the above is for single target DPS against a boss. Trash can still get much higher off-balance uptime so exploiter is even more effective.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It's still worth putting 75 into Thaumaturge. The off-balance nerf was most detrimental to heavy attack builds, which invested some into staff expert. Additionally, the improved synergies are allowing great Alkosh uptime in optimized groups, so fewer points in spell erosion are needed. These extra points have to go somewhere, and elf born, thaum, and elemental expert are starting to get to the point of significant diminishing return.

Master at arms is the best place to invest them for a Sorc (especially with the shift from heavy attacks to spammables). It buffs the damage of curse, force pulse, clench (initial hit), endless fury/Mage's wrath, the initial hit of meteor, the final explosion of unstable wall, all light attacks, inferno heavy attacks, pet basic attacks. All of these add up to about half of your damage, making it about as valuable as thaumaturge and elf born.

You only do 75 in thaum of you run a petsorc. For no pet it's no longer the case

Disagree. Even at 25% uptime it results in 2.5% average increase in damage. 75 thaum is not that far from optimal (around 56 depending on build) if you are not over invested in spell erosion.

The additional 19 points in thaum add 3% to DoTs (20% up to 23%), which are about half of a Sorc's damage, so 1.5% increase overall. That 1.5 added to the 2.5 from exploiter is 4% damage increase from 19 CPs. There is no other place these 19 points could be placed to get comparable benefit.

All of the above is for single target DPS against a boss. Trash can still get much higher off-balance uptime so exploiter is even more effective.

I'm just letting you know what people with the best parses run...

Examples please. Live parses (not skeletons) along with CP spread and rotation.

I don't believe there's much more than 1% DPS difference between Exploiter and non, but I have a hard time believing the "best" parsing sorcs do not use it.

Only pet sorcs use it because they're more reliant on DoTs.

The 'best' sorcs don't use it because they're running perfected AS staffs, no pets and are spamming force pulse a lot. Their jobs is to provide a 100% minor vulnerability up-time in a trial.

If there is as little difference as 1% between exploiter and no exploiter, in reality it's better to not have it. I know my direct damage will always be boosted by MaA while if off-balance procs when I'm dealing with mechanics its a DPS loss.

Having good burning uptime from Perfected Asylum Staff is significant - that is why sorcs don't want to swap force pulses - so they put LL on frontbar, and refresh curse every second rotation.
Burning is a DOT damage, what is another reason to grab some thaumaturge points, on top of exploiter.
Sorcs also have expensive ultimates, Storm Atro has 200 ultimate cost, so dropping it when target is offbalanced is quite important. It's a huge dps increase.
Here you can find my friend Liko's parse, what is IMO one of those "best" parses. He uses exploiter, as you can see.
https://youtu.be/yRXnsBXu6SU

Hmm, I'll take a look