My new idea for Tanks

Idontknow91

Wednesday, March 28th 2018.

Twilight's Remedy is well-suited for a Tank vs a Healer.

I currently wear Resilient Yokeda with Twilight's Remedy as a Templar tank. And the dps in my group's report an 8 out of 10 increase in their overall damage.

To proc Twilight's Remedy's 5 set bonus, I consistently have Ritual of Retribution active and also cast spear shards. However, there are other alternative skills that can be used such as Necrotic Orbs from the Undaunted skills, or even class abilities from classes other than templars.

I just wanted to toss my idea into the open as I believe it would help increase overall group composition, while also boosting group damage.

SmellyUnlimited

I’m guessing this is solely for four-man content without a healer? Because I definitely wouldn’t want a tank tossing shards or the like in difficult content or a trial setting.

Not sure what “8 out of 10”actually equates to damage-wise. You’re only giving them minor force, which stam will have via rearming trap (though Mag will not). I can see the heal being decent, but as a Templar tank you’re likely already dropping extended ritual, which should be sufficient.

Even with the ubiquity of Mechanical Acuity (taking advantage more with crit dmg increase), you contribute significantly more DPS by maximizing debuffs on the enemy (Alkosh / Torugs), or maximizing Major force for your team (Dragonguard/Jorvulds).

If it’s more challenging 4 man content (DLC dungeons/VDSA), and you’re running without a healer, speed is key. DPS should have some self-sustainability in those cases. Personally, I think you’re better off running Earthgore (can proc off your Ritual, or echoing Vigor), Dragonguard, Alkosh. Gives strong uptime on warhorn, strong debuff on enemies, and you have an emergency heal for the group.

*You can also pick the highest DPS in the group and slap a Stalwart Guard on them. Gives them minor force plus more survivability without sacrificing a 5-piece set.

Idontknow91

Depends on how talented your tank is at swift rotation. I wouldn't want to be tossing shards or throwing down ritual either if it knocked me off kilter. Good thing it doesn't.

SmellyUnlimited

clareno88 wrote: »

Depends on how talented your tank is at swift rotation. I wouldn't want to be tossing shards or throwing down ritual either if it knocked me off kilter. Good thing it doesn't.

That’s why it’s clear this is ONLY viable in 4 man content. Should add that to the descriptor.

Idontknow91

But I never agreed with that?

Idontknow91

Look, if you aren't capable of pulling something off, buddy. Don't make your shortcomings my problem, yeah? Thanks in advance.

Liofa

clareno88 wrote: »

I currently wear Resilient Yokeda with Twilight's Remedy as a Templar tank. And the dps in my group's report an 8 out of 10 increase in their overall damage.

Compared to which build ?

Idontknow91

Compared to the last set I had on. I swapped out Plague Doctors for Twilight's Remedy, since I finally got the pieces I needed.

Liofa

clareno88 wrote: »

Compared to the last set I had on. I swapped out Plague Doctors for Twilight's Remedy, since I finally got the pieces I needed.

Obviously they will get more DPS ^^ You replaced a Max Health set with something that provides Minor Force to your group members . You can put on any support set that provides damage boost and they will have more DPS . It's not only Twilight Remedy .

clareno88 wrote: »

Twilight's Remedy is well-suited for a Tank vs a Healer.

And what is your reasoning behind this ? Don't get me wrong , just trying to understand ^^ Skills you listed are obviously available to most healers (since Templars are one of the best classes for healing if not the best , chosen by majority of the playerbase as a healer class) meaning that a healer can pull this off as well as you can while pushing out better healing with Orbs instead of Shards due to having higher Magicka pool in addition to higher Spell Damage and Spell Critical .

Idontknow91

I'm glad you asked. Most of my buffs and debuffs come from my skills, Minor Sorcery, Minor Fracture/Minor Breach, Major Fracture/Major Breach, as well as adding more cleansing and healing into the group. I can catch an ally who's about to die from aoe as easily as the healer with my breath of life. So my reason for the gearset choice is because it compliments my playstyle as a tank, I do a lot more than just permablocking like many say is the ideal way to go. It fits in seamlessly, so it doesn't cause me any hassle. And it may be different for most, but I very seldom see any healers who wear Twilight's Remedy, and I've read a lot of complaints from healers about how it's annoying because it doesn't give it to the whole group, just one person at a time, so a healer is usually wearing a different set, so this compliments their sets.

Idontknow91

Alkosh is a mute point at this time anyway, how often have you guys seen a healer throw a synergy lately?

Idontknow91

Also, lastly, if you're going to choose a class other than a DragonKnight for tanking with, I would think utilizing the unique perks and passives of that class would be one major point of that decision. Templars, as you pointed out, are excellent healers, so healing is something I incorporate into my playstyle, because I have that capability to burst heal or cleanse my group. A DragonKnight can't do those things, so if I can, I should. Should, so long as I don't neglect my duties as a tank. I don't classify myself as Tank/Healer or anything silly like that, I merely am a Tank, who can contribute group healing when things get in a pinch.

Maura_Neysa

clareno88 wrote: »

Alkosh is a mute point at this time anyway, how often have you guys seen a healer throw a synergy lately?

Every Ritual and Shard, every Liquid Lighting, Budding Seed. Sure I have have both Alkosh and Torug’s and will swap if I don’t see synergies. The Dragon Bones synergy change was a huge boost to Alkosh though. Still I’m open to armor set ideas, after all no tank wears tanking sets, it’s always sets for the groups, so what to I care which set that is.

Idontknow91

You make a good point @Maura_Neysa.

Liofa

clareno88 wrote: »

I'm glad you asked. Most of my buffs and debuffs come from my skills, Minor Sorcery, Minor Fracture/Minor Breach, Major Fracture/Major Breach, as well as adding more cleansing and healing into the group. I can catch an ally who's about to die from aoe as easily as the healer with my breath of life. So my reason for the gearset choice is because it compliments my playstyle as a tank, I do a lot more than just permablocking like many say is the ideal way to go. It fits in seamlessly, so it doesn't cause me any hassle. And it may be different for most, but I very seldom see any healers who wear Twilight's Remedy, and I've read a lot of complaints from healers about how it's annoying because it doesn't give it to the whole group, just one person at a time, so a healer is usually wearing a different set, so this compliments their sets.

Ah so you are a tank that also heals when necessary . I did that too back in the day with my Templar Tank (now a healer) , was really fun for 4 man content for 3 DD - 1 Tank runs but obviously not good for trials where you have two dedicated healers . But yeah , amazing for 4 man stuff .

About permablocking , I read forums and talk with other end-game tanks almost every single day and none of them sees permablocking as the ideal way to go . Actually , it is the exact opposite . Permablocking tanks are usually looked down upon due to how they waste their resources randomly .

You are right about amount of healers using Twilight's Remedy , there aren't many who use it . The main reason is being that it is not useful for Stamina DDs as Rearming Trap giving the same buff and a really strong DoT . We all know that Stamina DDs are at least half the DDs in a trial group if not more due to how strong their Single Target DPS is .

By the way , you can give the buff to more than one person using Orbs . While you can have one Shard active at a time , you can have several Orbs flying all around the place and everyone who pop them will get the buff . Orbs are also amazing for increasing Spell Power Cure uptime , suits well with Twilight Remedy . We tried it in vAS HM on back kiter since there aren't many Stamina DDs in vAS HM (we have only one) , most DDs had 30-40% Minor Force which is really nice . It also added a lot of Spell Power Cure uptime .

clareno88 wrote: »

Alkosh is a mute point at this time anyway, how often have you guys seen a healer throw a synergy lately?

In our raids , Orbs are literally all over the place at all times and Ritual is always up from both healers . Not only for synergy but also for Spell Power Cure and Alkosh uptime . This is basically how all end-game raids go in raiding community . I am not really someone who likes PUGs so no idea how others are doing it ^^ I also play a healer . After I am done healing and open Combat Metrics report , I see that my most healing comes from orbs . I think this is , and should be if not , the case for most healers .

clareno88 wrote: »

Also, lastly, if you're going to choose a class other than a DragonKnight for tanking with, I would think utilizing the unique perks and passives of that class would be one major point of that decision. Templars, as you pointed out, are excellent healers, so healing is something I incorporate into my playstyle, because I have that capability to burst heal or cleanse my group. A DragonKnight can't do those things, so if I can, I should. Should, so long as I don't neglect my duties as a tank. I don't classify myself as Tank/Healer or anything silly like that, I merely am a Tank, who can contribute group healing when things get in a pinch.

Agreed . A player should implement what their class does best to their playstyle whatever the role is . As I mentioned before , I also had a Templar Tank and I went a similar way but slightly different , more healing focused since there weren't any healers ^^

Idontknow91

This is going to be a silly question most likely, but what's a combat metrics report? And how does one find one?

usmcjdking

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

I’m guessing this is solely for four-man content without a healer? Because I definitely wouldn’t want a tank tossing shards or the like in difficult content or a trial setting.

Not sure what “8 out of 10”actually equates to damage-wise. You’re only giving them minor force, which stam will have via rearming trap (though Mag will not). I can see the heal being decent, but as a Templar tank you’re likely already dropping extended ritual, which should be sufficient.

Even with the ubiquity of Mechanical Acuity (taking advantage more with crit dmg increase), you contribute significantly more DPS by maximizing debuffs on the enemy (Alkosh / Torugs), or maximizing Major force for your team (Dragonguard/Jorvulds).

If it’s more challenging 4 man content (DLC dungeons/VDSA), and you’re running without a healer, speed is key. DPS should have some self-sustainability in those cases. Personally, I think you’re better off running Earthgore (can proc off your Ritual, or echoing Vigor), Dragonguard, Alkosh. Gives strong uptime on warhorn, strong debuff on enemies, and you have an emergency heal for the group.

*You can also pick the highest DPS in the group and slap a Stalwart Guard on them. Gives them minor force plus more survivability without sacrificing a 5-piece set.

Most Templar tank builds has a free front bar slot provided minor sorcery and POTL is provided by other means.

It also doesn't have a magicka dump worth anything and no significant way to get magicka return from ele drain.

So yes, for a Templar tank shards is perfectly fine to equip.

Maura_Neysa

clareno88 wrote: »

This is going to be a silly question most likely, but what's a combat metrics report? And how does one find one?

PC Add on. Cant answer the second half because I'm xbox

Idontknow91

@Maura_Neysa Ah, I'm on console PS4 to be exact. I guess that's not an option available to me then, huh. Thanks for the info too, PC has so many perks!!!

Idontknow91

usmcjdking wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

I’m guessing this is solely for four-man content without a healer? Because I definitely wouldn’t want a tank tossing shards or the like in difficult content or a trial setting.

Not sure what “8 out of 10”actually equates to damage-wise. You’re only giving them minor force, which stam will have via rearming trap (though Mag will not). I can see the heal being decent, but as a Templar tank you’re likely already dropping extended ritual, which should be sufficient.

Even with the ubiquity of Mechanical Acuity (taking advantage more with crit dmg increase), you contribute significantly more DPS by maximizing debuffs on the enemy (Alkosh / Torugs), or maximizing Major force for your team (Dragonguard/Jorvulds).

If it’s more challenging 4 man content (DLC dungeons/VDSA), and you’re running without a healer, speed is key. DPS should have some self-sustainability in those cases. Personally, I think you’re better off running Earthgore (can proc off your Ritual, or echoing Vigor), Dragonguard, Alkosh. Gives strong uptime on warhorn, strong debuff on enemies, and you have an emergency heal for the group.

*You can also pick the highest DPS in the group and slap a Stalwart Guard on them. Gives them minor force plus more survivability without sacrificing a 5-piece set.

Most Templar tank builds has a free front bar slot provided minor sorcery and POTL is provided by other means.

It also doesn't have a magicka dump worth anything and no significant way to get magicka return from ele drain.

So yes, for a Templar tank shards is perfectly fine to equip.

Can you reiterate what you just wrote, for some reason I'm struggling to grasp what you're telling me. I guess I'm a little overwhelmed at the moment, so much info!

Maura_Neysa

clareno88 wrote: »

@Maura_Neysa Ah, I'm on console PS4 to be exact. I guess that's not an option available to me then, huh. Thanks for the info too, PC has so many perks!!!

Yes and no. While you cant set it up and test yourself, I still find it useful when you look up online posts

For example in the one I linked (which is just a random one from online)
Its a Magplar hitting 45k parse, with someone applying War Horn, Major Breach and Spell Power Cure for them. So now I know what I should be able to get on my parse.

Idontknow91

@Maura_Neysa, Really? Nice! I will definitely check that out!

Idontknow91

Omg! It's off subject, but I gotta say something @Maura_Neysa, you have a Dragonknight Healer!!! That is so awesome! I know 1 person with one who completed Lorkhaj with it and I have one that's not very refined. I love the concept though!

Idontknow91

I like your signature too. ^_^ "Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THATs impressive." I completely agree.

Idontknow91

@Maura_Neysa, sorry for so many split messages, I got excited, lol. Can you share me the url for that site?

SmellyUnlimited

clareno88 wrote: »

Look, if you aren't capable of pulling something off, buddy. Don't make your shortcomings my problem, yeah? Thanks in advance.

Actually, sounds like you just aired your shortcomings. And you’re welcome.

Idontknow91

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

clareno88 wrote: »

Look, if you aren't capable of pulling something off, buddy. Don't make your shortcomings my problem, yeah? Thanks in advance.

Actually, sounds like you just aired your shortcomings. And you’re welcome.

I don't know how you gathered that, but whatever floats your boat.

SmellyUnlimited

clareno88 wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

clareno88 wrote: »

Look, if you aren't capable of pulling something off, buddy. Don't make your shortcomings my problem, yeah? Thanks in advance.

Actually, sounds like you just aired your shortcomings. And you’re welcome.

I don't know how you gathered that, but whatever floats your boat.

Thank you