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AOE doing more damage than DD in PVP
Ramzdonb16_ESO
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People just running around with dual wield killing everything. One v One steel tornado shouldnt be doing more damage than incapacitating strike or any direct damage move for that matter.
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glavius✭✭✭✭✭Steel tornado does pretty low damage. It's about half damage of surprise attack. And with the execute scaling it only reaches the same damage as surprise attack at <20% hp opponent (undodgeable, but costs a ton more). It's nowhere near the damage of Incapacitating Strike.17 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What i read from that post:
You fought a stamnb with DW+?
He then attacked you with incap + other skills and killed you then with steel tornado.
Your death recap showed you that steel tornado did more damage than all other skills including incap.
This happens for several reasons:
1. incap buffs all other damage for 6 seconds by 20% (Suprise attack after incap will also hit for more than incap itself)
2. incap was a non crit while steel tornado hit you with a crit
3. steel tornado is an execute that deals 100% additional damage against low health targets
A skill like killer's blade would've hit you for even more because it has a higher tooltip against low health targets. steel tornado really isn't that big of a deal it's just a solid aoe execute7 -
Ramzdonb16_ESO✭✭✭Steel tornado does pretty low damage. It's about half damage of surprise attack. And with the execute scaling it only reaches the same damage as surprise attack at <20% hp opponent (undodgeable, but costs a ton more). It's nowhere near the damage of Incapacitating Strike.
Firstly I confused incapacitating strike with surprise attack.
Secondly the steel tornado hitting for around 6k, thats about the maximum I get hit by any move (apart from ults) when I review my death cap.0 -
Ramzdonb16_ESO✭✭✭What i read from that post:
You fought a stamnb with DW+?
He then attacked you with incap + other skills and killed you then with steel tornado.
Your death recap showed you that steel tornado did more damage than all other skills including incap.
This happens for several reasons:
1. incap buffs all other damage for 6 seconds by 20% (Suprise attack after incap will also hit for more than incap itself)
2. incap was a non crit while steel tornado hit you with a crit
3. steel tornado is an execute that deals 100% additional damage against low health targets
A skill like killer's blade would've hit you for even more because it has a higher tooltip against low health targets. steel tornado really isn't that big of a deal it's just a solid aoe execute
Nah he was a DK with dualweild hitting at around 6k from a spin, I see everyone abusing steel tornado now, its horribly overpowered.
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Koolio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ramzdonb16_ESO wrote: »What i read from that post:
You fought a stamnb with DW+?
He then attacked you with incap + other skills and killed you then with steel tornado.
Your death recap showed you that steel tornado did more damage than all other skills including incap.
This happens for several reasons:
1. incap buffs all other damage for 6 seconds by 20% (Suprise attack after incap will also hit for more than incap itself)
2. incap was a non crit while steel tornado hit you with a crit
3. steel tornado is an execute that deals 100% additional damage against low health targets
A skill like killer's blade would've hit you for even more because it has a higher tooltip against low health targets. steel tornado really isn't that big of a deal it's just a solid aoe execute
Nah he was a DK with dualweild hitting at around 6k from a spin, I see everyone abusing steel tornado now, its horribly overpowered.
It was broken for over a year.
Fixed and now Op. lol.3 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ramzdonb16_ESO wrote: »What i read from that post:
You fought a stamnb with DW+?
He then attacked you with incap + other skills and killed you then with steel tornado.
Your death recap showed you that steel tornado did more damage than all other skills including incap.
This happens for several reasons:
1. incap buffs all other damage for 6 seconds by 20% (Suprise attack after incap will also hit for more than incap itself)
2. incap was a non crit while steel tornado hit you with a crit
3. steel tornado is an execute that deals 100% additional damage against low health targets
A skill like killer's blade would've hit you for even more because it has a higher tooltip against low health targets. steel tornado really isn't that big of a deal it's just a solid aoe execute
Nah he was a DK with dualweild hitting at around 6k from a spin, I see everyone abusing steel tornado now, its horribly overpowered.
6k damage is not op.
No one is abusing steel tornado. There was a time when steel tornado was horrible with a much bigger radius and higher damage but the current version is balanced and only works as an executeEdited by BohnT on March 30, 2018 5:26PM5 -
jcasini222ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭From a PC NA Vivec perspective of a stamplar, once aoe caps got removed it went on my bar... Partly also because the damage biting jabs does in a CP campaign is stupidly low now. Trust me, I have a feeling many Stam players would love to break from some skills (spin2win and DB) but when I look at my class skills as a stamplar and how they function in CP PvP I lol.
So it's spin, spin, spin baby!!!! Wooo!!!2 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ramzdonb16_ESO wrote: »People just running around with dual wield killing everything. One v One steel tornado shouldnt be doing more damage than incapacitating strike or any direct damage move for that matter.
Yeah it doesnt most of the time. You got executed by it, but SA would have killed you there as well.
That said, since the removal of AOE caps, Steel Tornado has become the go to for PVP raid groups. Stam Wardens with ST, Sub Assault and Dawnbreaker are out DPSing sap essence spamming bomblades these days.
Its a powerful AOE and a modest execute, but it is certainly not OP in 1v1 scenarios. If you get run over by a zerg of of spinners, i do get the frustration, but if you die to steel tornado in a 1v1 scenario, you allowed yourself to get into execute range, so that's on you.
Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on March 30, 2018 5:57PM4 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ramzdonb16_ESO wrote: »What i read from that post:
You fought a stamnb with DW+?
He then attacked you with incap + other skills and killed you then with steel tornado.
Your death recap showed you that steel tornado did more damage than all other skills including incap.
This happens for several reasons:
1. incap buffs all other damage for 6 seconds by 20% (Suprise attack after incap will also hit for more than incap itself)
2. incap was a non crit while steel tornado hit you with a crit
3. steel tornado is an execute that deals 100% additional damage against low health targets
A skill like killer's blade would've hit you for even more because it has a higher tooltip against low health targets. steel tornado really isn't that big of a deal it's just a solid aoe execute
Nah he was a DK with dualweild hitting at around 6k from a spin, I see everyone abusing steel tornado now, its horribly overpowered.
I've hit over 10k+ executioner crits. And I'm in heavy armor.1 -
Tetrafy✭✭✭✭Ramzdonb16_ESO wrote: »What i read from that post:
You fought a stamnb with DW+?
He then attacked you with incap + other skills and killed you then with steel tornado.
Your death recap showed you that steel tornado did more damage than all other skills including incap.
This happens for several reasons:
1. incap buffs all other damage for 6 seconds by 20% (Suprise attack after incap will also hit for more than incap itself)
2. incap was a non crit while steel tornado hit you with a crit
3. steel tornado is an execute that deals 100% additional damage against low health targets
A skill like killer's blade would've hit you for even more because it has a higher tooltip against low health targets. steel tornado really isn't that big of a deal it's just a solid aoe execute
Nah he was a DK with dualweild hitting at around 6k from a spin, I see everyone abusing steel tornado now, its horribly overpowered.
Yea but its a glass cannon build. I get to 4500 weapon damage, and good crit but I can die really easily. I lay poisons bleeds and then spin to win after a donnie. Dont get in close and youll be alright.0 -
Tetrafy✭✭✭✭
The cringe is real. My eyes.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ramzdonb16_ESO wrote: »What i read from that post:
You fought a stamnb with DW+?
He then attacked you with incap + other skills and killed you then with steel tornado.
Your death recap showed you that steel tornado did more damage than all other skills including incap.
This happens for several reasons:
1. incap buffs all other damage for 6 seconds by 20% (Suprise attack after incap will also hit for more than incap itself)
2. incap was a non crit while steel tornado hit you with a crit
3. steel tornado is an execute that deals 100% additional damage against low health targets
A skill like killer's blade would've hit you for even more because it has a higher tooltip against low health targets. steel tornado really isn't that big of a deal it's just a solid aoe execute
Nah he was a DK with dualweild hitting at around 6k from a spin, I see everyone abusing steel tornado now, its horribly overpowered.
I've hit over 10k+ executioner crits. And I'm in heavy armor.1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
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The cringe is real. My eyes.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ramzdonb16_ESO wrote: »What i read from that post:
You fought a stamnb with DW+?
He then attacked you with incap + other skills and killed you then with steel tornado.
Your death recap showed you that steel tornado did more damage than all other skills including incap.
This happens for several reasons:
1. incap buffs all other damage for 6 seconds by 20% (Suprise attack after incap will also hit for more than incap itself)
2. incap was a non crit while steel tornado hit you with a crit
3. steel tornado is an execute that deals 100% additional damage against low health targets
A skill like killer's blade would've hit you for even more because it has a higher tooltip against low health targets. steel tornado really isn't that big of a deal it's just a solid aoe execute
Nah he was a DK with dualweild hitting at around 6k from a spin, I see everyone abusing steel tornado now, its horribly overpowered.
I've hit over 10k+ executioner crits. And I'm in heavy armor.
The only cringy thing here is your lack of reading skills , unless you agree with OP, then its a l2p case.
Edited by Ragnarock41 on March 31, 2018 5:23PM0 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Consider the fact steel tornado was buffed by surprise att debuff and incap buff. Then if you managed to get hit while under 20% while also immobilised, your looking at a ton of extra damage. Theoretically steelT can hit harder then surprise attack...possibly just as much as incap, depending the conditions.PS4 NA DC0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »Consider the fact steel tornado was buffed by surprise att debuff and incap buff. Then if you managed to get hit while under 20% while also immobilised, your looking at a ton of extra damage. Theoretically steelT can hit harder then surprise attack...possibly just as much as incap, depending the conditions.
I'm thinking OP is a nightblade player that got killed by a glass cannon Dk.1 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ramzdonb16_ESO wrote: »People just running around with dual wield killing everything. One v One steel tornado shouldnt be doing more damage than incapacitating strike or any direct damage move for that matter.
Haha, I was thinking about making this same thread. It's so ridiculous. Amateur devs, man.
I'm pretty tired of all these brain-dead one-button builds.Edited by Solariken on March 31, 2018 8:32PM3 -
glavius✭✭✭✭✭What i read from that post:
You fought a stamnb with DW+?
He then attacked you with incap + other skills and killed you then with steel tornado.
Your death recap showed you that steel tornado did more damage than all other skills including incap.
This happens for several reasons:
1. incap buffs all other damage for 6 seconds by 20% (Suprise attack after incap will also hit for more than incap itself)
2. incap was a non crit while steel tornado hit you with a crit
3. steel tornado is an execute that deals 100% additional damage against low health targets
A skill like killer's blade would've hit you for even more because it has a higher tooltip against low health targets. steel tornado really isn't that big of a deal it's just a solid aoe execute
Steel tornado does not deal 100% additional damage against low health targets. It scales depending on the targets health (and the +20% from dual wield passive on top).
So against a 50% hp target, it does (50+20%) extra damage. Against a 20% hp target it does (80+20%).
Now if you compare surprise attack to steel tornado: Surprise attack has exactly double tooltip value. So for them to do equal damage, target has to be at 20% hp left.
It only does higher damage than surprise attack below 20% hp target (1 hit from dead anyway in most cases), or if target is stunned so the dual wield +15% damage against stunned enemies kicks in.
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BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What i read from that post:
You fought a stamnb with DW+?
He then attacked you with incap + other skills and killed you then with steel tornado.
Your death recap showed you that steel tornado did more damage than all other skills including incap.
This happens for several reasons:
1. incap buffs all other damage for 6 seconds by 20% (Suprise attack after incap will also hit for more than incap itself)
2. incap was a non crit while steel tornado hit you with a crit
3. steel tornado is an execute that deals 100% additional damage against low health targets
A skill like killer's blade would've hit you for even more because it has a higher tooltip against low health targets. steel tornado really isn't that big of a deal it's just a solid aoe execute
Steel tornado does not deal 100% additional damage against low health targets. It scales depending on the targets health (and the +20% from dual wield passive on top).
So against a 50% hp target, it does (50+20%) extra damage. Against a 20% hp target it does (80+20%).
Now if you compare surprise attack to steel tornado: Surprise attack has exactly double tooltip value. So for them to do equal damage, target has to be at 20% hp left.
It only does higher damage than surprise attack below 20% hp target (1 hit from dead anyway in most cases), or if target is stunned so the dual wield +15% damage against stunned enemies kicks in.
So what? That's exactly what i said0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I keep thinking when I click on this thread it's about more than steel tornado, it's a steel tornado thread, and i am constantly caught by it0 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What i read from that post:
You fought a stamnb with DW+?
He then attacked you with incap + other skills and killed you then with steel tornado.
Your death recap showed you that steel tornado did more damage than all other skills including incap.
This happens for several reasons:
1. incap buffs all other damage for 6 seconds by 20% (Suprise attack after incap will also hit for more than incap itself)
2. incap was a non crit while steel tornado hit you with a crit
3. steel tornado is an execute that deals 100% additional damage against low health targets
A skill like killer's blade would've hit you for even more because it has a higher tooltip against low health targets. steel tornado really isn't that big of a deal it's just a solid aoe execute
Steel tornado does not deal 100% additional damage against low health targets. It scales depending on the targets health (and the +20% from dual wield passive on top).
So against a 50% hp target, it does (50+20%) extra damage. Against a 20% hp target it does (80+20%).
Now if you compare surprise attack to steel tornado: Surprise attack has exactly double tooltip value. So for them to do equal damage, target has to be at 20% hp left.
It only does higher damage than surprise attack below 20% hp target (1 hit from dead anyway in most cases), or if target is stunned so the dual wield +15% damage against stunned enemies kicks in.
The player who killed op could be using the DW medium set buffing only DW abilities and not Surprise Att by 500 wep damage. Makes it easier to tooltip higher with SteelT then SurpriseAtt.
also if op was a nightblade his armour buffs are tied to that shadow barrier passive. meaning be may of had armour for the surpriseATT but none when he was executed by SteelT.Edited by GreenSoup2HoT on April 2, 2018 12:47PMPS4 NA DC0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭WillhelmBlack wrote: »I get hit with 4-6k light attacks. Should that be nerfed too?
I remember people actually making nerf threads for bash. yes, literally for bash.0 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just to clarify, steel tornado is direct damage and also AoE. Direct damage is the opposite of damage over time (DoT). AoE is the opposite of single target (ST).
Skills can be AoE+DoT, AoE+Direct, ST+DoT, or ST+Direct.
I think you are surprised that an AoE skill did more damage than other single target skills. As others have said, it is probably due to the execute scaling of steel tornado. It may have also been a crit. If comparing apples to apples steel tornado has lower base damage than single target skills.0 -
LordTareq✭✭✭✭✭AOE should never do close to the damage of a single target ability. It should only be worthwhile to use AOE when you hit 3 targets or more. At the moment, you have plenty of AOE skills that almost hit as hard as single target abilities, which is pretty lame considering the fire and forget ease of using AOE.
Case in point: for me Power Extraction does 5700 damage AOE, while Surprise attack does 7400. It would be much more reasonable if PE did roughly 4k damage, so vs 2 target it would do slightly more damage than 2x surprise attack, and against 3 or more it would really start to shine.1 -
Merlight✭✭✭✭✭6k damage is not op.
No one is abusing steel tornado. There was a time when steel tornado was horrible with a much bigger radius and higher damage but the current version is balanced and only works as an execute
I'm abusing steel tornado. When I'm fighting 1 guy and get him low, I spin. When he cloaks, I spin. When I need to rebuff but my weapon bar won't swap, I spin.EU ‣ Wabbajack nostalgic ‣ Blackwater Blade defender ‣ Kyne wanderer
The offspring of the root of all evil in ESO by DeanTheCat
Why ESO needs a monthly subscription
When an MMO is designed around a revenue model rather than around fun, it doesn’t have a long-term future. ― Richard A. Bartle
Their idea of transparent, at least when it comes to communication, bears a striking resemblance to a block of coal. ― lordrichter
... in the balance of power between the accountants and marketing types against the artists, developers and those who generally want to build and run a good game then that balance needs to always be in favour of the latter - because the former will drag the game into the ground for every last bean they can squeeze out of it. ― Santie Claws0 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Its only overpowered in groups, when its being cast by several people. Can literally group up with 3 friends and helicopter through large groups.
Now Synergy bombs, that is feeling op0 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Damage period is through the roof. But when it comes to AOEs, people are just spamming CCs and dumping their AOE. It starts to look like a crutch.Edited by StarOfElyon on February 8, 2019 5:46AM0 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭StarOfElyon wrote: »Damage period is through the roof. But when it comes to AOEs, people are just spamming CCs and dumping their AOE. It starts to look like a crutch.
Youre right, damage is through the roof. Thats partly because CP is destroying the game and 90% of cyrodil runs atleast 30k health and runs Earthgore, so you have to transform into an apache helicopter to wipe them all out.0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭psychotic13 wrote: »Its only overpowered in groups, when its being cast by several people. Can literally group up with 3 friends and helicopter through large groups.
Now Synergy bombs, that is feeling op
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Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So this is what happens when people never have to really use block in PvE. I play 7/9 mag characters and I don't have a problem with this skill. It's crazy reading some of this. Hmm...0
