One slot left. Pvp Stam warden or stam dk?

Icy_Waffles

Redguard. 2h and db most likely. Never played a tankier build. Sick of medium armor.

VaranisArano

Stam Warden. Shalks and birdspam. Shalks and birdspam.

TimeDazzler

StamDK's aint coming back lel

Lynx7386

VaranisArano wrote: »

Stam Warden. Shalks and birdspam. Shalks and birdspam.

If you're birdspamming in pvp these days, you're doing it wrong.

VaranisArano

Lynx7386 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Stam Warden. Shalks and birdspam. Shalks and birdspam.

If you're birdspamming in pvp these days, you're doing it wrong.

When I'm fighting at range? Birdspam then Poison Injection once in execute range. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but it seems to work okay for me.

Ragnarock41

VaranisArano wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Stam Warden. Shalks and birdspam. Shalks and birdspam.

If you're birdspamming in pvp these days, you're doing it wrong.

When I'm fighting at range? Birdspam then Poison Injection once in execute range. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but it seems to work okay for me.

nothing wrong with birdspam, even tho personally I prefer dizzying swing as landing it guarantees a kill most of the time, If I time it just after my shalks and follow up with the classic dawnbreaker.

For ranged pressure its still a great skill though. forcing your opponent to react even when you're not in range, is something Dks lack.

Waffennacht

Lynx7386 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Stam Warden. Shalks and birdspam. Shalks and birdspam.

If you're birdspamming in pvp these days, you're doing it wrong.

I agree with this. A good player will just Dodge roll after taking a few hits. Pressure and birds are not synonymous, not any more.

On a Stam build why sacrifice a slot for a mediocre at best ability? Hell if we're talking bow, just snipe, it's real pressure cuz they'll never see them coming.

Definitely Stam warden though. Forget birds, you'll be far happier

Vapirko

No contest, stam warden wins by miles and miles. I’ve now played all stamina classes, and it depends a little on preference, but imo stam warden is tops when it comes to a do it all class. There might be better specific classes for certain things but stam warden can offer so much to a group but can also hold its own very well. That aoe major fracture and breach is so hard to beat. Being able to hit a group on ram with that before landing some coordinate DBoS is just devastating.

GeorgeBlack

Soooo stamDK is fine as it is? No need for buffs?

Maura_Neysa

Neither, wait until we know about whether Summerset will make for anything interesting and then make something depending on that.

Icy_Waffles

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Neither, wait until we know about whether Summerset will make for anything interesting and then make something depending on that.

I was thinking this as i was reading the post. I guess i miss playing stamina in pvp. Played stam dk a while back. Looking at 2h and sb builds. Warden looks great. Stam dk what i like is the leap and i am more used to the skills obviously.

TimeDazzler

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Soooo stamDK is fine as it is? No need for buffs?

Needs a rework, not a buff.
Edit: Though buffs would be nice for the time being.

Ragnarock41

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Neither, wait until we know about whether Summerset will make for anything interesting and then make something depending on that.

This is probably the safest route you can take, but in all honesty, I don't think stamDk will ever truly be back.
Considering how much community hates the class and how ZOS never reverts back their changes, there is just no way, I don't see it happening.

Meanwhile you take stamden and nerf a few aspects of it and it will still perform great.

Maura_Neysa

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Neither, wait until we know about whether Summerset will make for anything interesting and then make something depending on that.

This is probably the safest route you can take, but in all honesty, I don't think stamDk will ever truly be back.
Considering how much community hates the class and how ZOS never reverts back their changes, there is just no way, I don't see it happening.

Meanwhile you take stamden and nerf a few aspects of it and it will still perform great.

Whatever. StamDK is NOT in a bad place at all. No they dont go back, but that hardly means the balance doesn't shift. Everyone thinks there favorite class is in a bad place.
- NB even though they are the most effective gank.
- MagDK even though they are the most effective CC,
- MagSorc even though they have the best DPS with survival.
- StamSorc even though they have the greatest pressure.
- MagWarden even though they have everything you could want all in one class
- Not sure anyone is complaining about StamWardens
- Magplar, even though they're Healbots
- Stamplars - Maybe litigate, not sure what strength they have. I know they are out there because I get PotL, but don't really see them otherwise.

Ragnarock41

Cries wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Soooo stamDK is fine as it is? No need for buffs?

Needs a rework, not a buff.
Edit: Though buffs would be nice for the time being.

I still disagree on a rework, I might be wrong, Its bad atm but I'm not sure if its that bad.

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Neither, wait until we know about whether Summerset will make for anything interesting and then make something depending on that.

This is probably the safest route you can take, but in all honesty, I don't think stamDk will ever truly be back.
Considering how much community hates the class and how ZOS never reverts back their changes, there is just no way, I don't see it happening.

Meanwhile you take stamden and nerf a few aspects of it and it will still perform great.

Whatever. StamDK is NOT in a bad place at all. No they dont go back, but that hardly means the balance doesn't shift. Everyone thinks there favorite class is in a bad place.
- NB even though they are the most effective gank.
- MagDK even though they are the most effective CC,
- MagSorc even though they have the best DPS with survival.
- StamSorc even though they have the greatest pressure.
- MagWarden even though they have everything you could want all in one class
- Not sure anyone is complaining about StamWardens
- Magplar, even though they're Healbots
- Stamplars - Maybe litigate, not sure what strength they have. I know they are out there because I get PotL, but don't really see them otherwise.

Stop wearing pink glasses and then maybe you can start to see the obvious truth, stamDk is in a bad place for PvP, It doesn't really take an expert to see why. But of course you can pretend we are living in a perfect world where there are no problems and everything is always fair.

Lynx7386

Stamwarden is only seeing so much favoritism because it has massive burst damage potential (and literally 100% of that comes from subterranean assault combo'd with wrecking blow and dawnbreaker). Honestly I dont get all the complaints about sub assault in pvp, it's easy to anticipate and dodge out of, it has a ridiculously narrow field of damage and an easy animation to tell when it's being used (hint: when a warden punches the ground and has a green/teal circle echo around him, he just used sub assault, dodge two seconds later and you'll avoid any and all damage from it).

Stamden is a one trick pony, and people put so much emphasis on that one trick that they fail to see any faults elsewhere.

StamDK, IMO, is still the better choice because while their pvp burst is lower, they're still effective enough (and more survivable and annoying to fight than stamden, IMO) and they're far, FAR better at pve dps. Stamdk is the top damage dealer in trials right now, alongside stamblade, and has a MUCH easier time hitting that level of DPS than stamblades do. Easier rotation, easier gear, easier in every way imaginable.

Ragnarock41

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Stamwarden is only seeing so much favoritism because it has massive burst damage potential (and literally 100% of that comes from subterranean assault combo'd with wrecking blow and dawnbreaker). Honestly I dont get all the complaints about sub assault in pvp, it's easy to anticipate and dodge out of, it has a ridiculously narrow field of damage and an easy animation to tell when it's being used (hint: when a warden punches the ground and has a green/teal circle echo around him, he just used sub assault, dodge two seconds later and you'll avoid any and all damage from it).

StamDK, IMO, is still the better choice because while their pvp burst is lower, they're still effective enough (and more survivable and annoying to fight than stamden, IMO) and they're far, FAR better at pve dps. Stamdk is the top damage dealer in trials right now, alongside stamblade, and has a MUCH easier time hitting that level of DPS than stamblades do. Easier rotation, easier gear, easier in every way imaginable.

I think the threat is all about PvP here. And implying sub assault is easy to dodge and not mentioning how hard to use noxious breath is just bias, nothing else. Both skills have the same purpose ,one completely outperforms the other and You console players might be bad at aiming it due to controllers, but I have no issues hitting sub assault on entire groups of players, debuffing all of them and doing massive undodgeable aoe damage.

Maura_Neysa

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Soooo stamDK is fine as it is? No need for buffs?

Needs a rework, not a buff.
Edit: Though buffs would be nice for the time being.

I still disagree on a rework, I might be wrong, Its bad atm but I'm not sure if its that bad.

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Neither, wait until we know about whether Summerset will make for anything interesting and then make something depending on that.

This is probably the safest route you can take, but in all honesty, I don't think stamDk will ever truly be back.
Considering how much community hates the class and how ZOS never reverts back their changes, there is just no way, I don't see it happening.

Meanwhile you take stamden and nerf a few aspects of it and it will still perform great.

Whatever. StamDK is NOT in a bad place at all. No they dont go back, but that hardly means the balance doesn't shift. Everyone thinks there favorite class is in a bad place.
- NB even though they are the most effective gank.
- MagDK even though they are the most effective CC,
- MagSorc even though they have the best DPS with survival.
- StamSorc even though they have the greatest pressure.
- MagWarden even though they have everything you could want all in one class
- Not sure anyone is complaining about StamWardens
- Magplar, even though they're Healbots
- Stamplars - Maybe litigate, not sure what strength they have. I know they are out there because I get PotL, but don't really see them otherwise.

Stop wearing pink glasses and then maybe you can start to see the obvious truth, stamDk is in a bad place for PvP, It doesn't really take an expert to see why. But of course you can pretend we are living in a perfect world where there are no problems and everything is always fair.

There, I put the pink glasses where they should be. Oh but of course I wasn't the one viewing the world through rose colored glasses to start with.

GeorgeBlack

So you are oblivious to the fact that 2 ppl asked DK or Warden and there are 5 pages per post saying Warden.

There is also one topic in PvP section declaring stamwarden broken.

On purpose i necroed these threads to show how blatantly people will lie in saying "stamDK is ok". And you just prove that to be the truth

EmmBrie

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, seems StamDKs are still pretty good.

I mean, in 1v1, open with stealth Lethal Arrow, Poison Injection, Empowering Chains, Dizzying Swing, and then Executioner they should be done unless they have higher then average health which most PvP ive noticed dont tend to have as they choose to full stat dump into primary stat.

With access to things like Combustion II Giving you 66% damage increase on all poisons status and CPs in Thaumaturge having dual and triple stacks of poison clicking for 6k or more every few seconds is hard to recover from specially when they are still on top of you hammering down the Executioner.

Even when running in groups you have access to spam out the poisons and fire dots with Acid Spray, Noxious Breath, and Burning Talons. Which also CCs with talons.

I mean yeah, burst damage is the optimal route in PvP, however, DKs poisons can become monsters. It's hard to deal with someone punching you in the face when you're offbalcned and/or on the ground and while having large ticks of life lost to better then average DoTs.

Just my opinion. I've never had difficulty in PvP with my StamKnight 2h/Bow build.

Septimus_Magna

In PVP burst dmg, movement speed, sustain and ult regen are very useful, the Warden has them all.

Yesterday I was leveling my DK in PVP to get Caltrops and got reminded how massive the difference is.

EmmBrie

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

In PVP burst dmg, movement speed, sustain and ult regen are very useful, the Warden has them all.

Yesterday I was leveling my DK in PVP to get Caltrops and got reminded how massive the difference is.

Yeah, the difference with StamWarden in PvP vs StamKnight is pretty rough. But, TBH, skill levels also are huge factors. I've out skilled alot of better geared Wardens and other classes. Placement, rotations, which skills to use and when, just generally knowing your class is the greater portion of PvP/PvE in pretty much any game.

Also, as a StamWarden, youre able to make great use of Green Dragon's Blood and Igneous Shield since we don't use Magicak you should always be able to throw those around a bit. But like I said, its all about knowing your class and abilities and when best to use what.

Turelus

Stam Warden is a lot of fun, more than I thought it would be when I made mine.

I went from "meh Warden" to "Need to play this more"

Ragnarock41

Turelus wrote: »

Stam Warden is a lot of fun, more than I thought it would be when I made mine.

I went from "meh Warden" to "Need to play this more"

I like the bear ult a lot, Its one of the more unique parts of warden class.
Kind of wished it was a little stronger though, considering its a double slot.

Vapirko

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Stamwarden is only seeing so much favoritism because it has massive burst damage potential (and literally 100% of that comes from subterranean assault combo'd with wrecking blow and dawnbreaker). Honestly I dont get all the complaints about sub assault in pvp, it's easy to anticipate and dodge out of, it has a ridiculously narrow field of damage and an easy animation to tell when it's being used (hint: when a warden punches the ground and has a green/teal circle echo around him, he just used sub assault, dodge two seconds later and you'll avoid any and all damage from it).

Stamden is a one trick pony, and people put so much emphasis on that one trick that they fail to see any faults elsewhere.

StamDK, IMO, is still the better choice because while their pvp burst is lower, they're still effective enough (and more survivable and annoying to fight than stamden, IMO) and they're far, FAR better at pve dps. Stamdk is the top damage dealer in trials right now, alongside stamblade, and has a MUCH easier time hitting that level of DPS than stamblades do. Easier rotation, easier gear, easier in every way imaginable.

As always Stamwarden isn’t as OP as people say. Sub assault gets such a bad rap as usual because of zergs spamming it and good players ripping people apart with it. Aside from those instances it’s a pretty normal skill. But really the damage isn’t what makes wardens good. It’s the access to major expedition, stam return while sprinting, group resistance buff, all the heals, and all around passives that cover every area from dps to heals to tanking. That’s why it’s whatever in PvE and good in PvP.

Turelus

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Stam Warden is a lot of fun, more than I thought it would be when I made mine.

I went from "meh Warden" to "Need to play this more"

I like the bear ult a lot, Its one of the more unique parts of warden class.
Kind of wished it was a little stronger though, considering its a double slot.

Warden needs a lot of love still (like having a passive which only helps one play style [terrible design]) but I found it fun to play, especially hitting R and seeing that bear go crazy.

EmmBrie

Turelus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Stam Warden is a lot of fun, more than I thought it would be when I made mine.

I went from "meh Warden" to "Need to play this more"

I like the bear ult a lot, Its one of the more unique parts of warden class.
Kind of wished it was a little stronger though, considering its a double slot.

Warden needs a lot of love still (like having a passive which only helps one play style [terrible design]) but I found it fun to play, especially hitting R and seeing that bear go crazy.

Crazy bear is fun. It should have been made an skill like the Imps and such from Daedric line for Sorcs. Making the ULT kinda makes it trash use b/c of the fact you have to double bar it or it unsummons when you bar swap. Not to mention, the damage isnt really that amazing from it.

Ragnarock41

Vapirko wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Stamwarden is only seeing so much favoritism because it has massive burst damage potential (and literally 100% of that comes from subterranean assault combo'd with wrecking blow and dawnbreaker). Honestly I dont get all the complaints about sub assault in pvp, it's easy to anticipate and dodge out of, it has a ridiculously narrow field of damage and an easy animation to tell when it's being used (hint: when a warden punches the ground and has a green/teal circle echo around him, he just used sub assault, dodge two seconds later and you'll avoid any and all damage from it).

Stamden is a one trick pony, and people put so much emphasis on that one trick that they fail to see any faults elsewhere.

StamDK, IMO, is still the better choice because while their pvp burst is lower, they're still effective enough (and more survivable and annoying to fight than stamden, IMO) and they're far, FAR better at pve dps. Stamdk is the top damage dealer in trials right now, alongside stamblade, and has a MUCH easier time hitting that level of DPS than stamblades do. Easier rotation, easier gear, easier in every way imaginable.

As always Stamwarden isn’t as OP as people say. Sub assault gets such a bad rap as usual because of zergs spamming it and good players ripping people apart with it. Aside from those instances it’s a pretty normal skill. But really the damage isn’t what makes wardens good. It’s the access to major expedition, stam return while sprinting, group resistance buff, all the heals, and all around passives that cover every area from dps to heals to tanking. That’s why it’s whatever in PvE and good in PvP.

Some good facts here but the conclusion is wrong.
Here is why:

On the topic of expedition , even my stamDk can have permanent uptime on major expedition, thanks to potions. Its important but not something very exclusive to wardens. Expedition buff is something very easy to achieve.

here is the catch though, my stamden gets minor berserk for using bird of prey. The magicka cost is also not that high and this alone means I never will have to wear slimecraw. Its just free damage packed with mobility.

And saying sub assault/shimmering shield isn't the key strength of stamden PvP is like saying ''cloak and incap doesn't make nightblades great, its just the passives''.

Sure , passives do help, but Its always the skill kit that makes a class great. Passives only amp that.

Look at stamDKs, we have %6 aoe poison damage on WiR passive, what does it mean? a huge NOTHING.

outside of noxious breath which does pitiful damage even with WiR buffing it

If we had high scaling aoe poison abilitites, stamDKs could easily achieve the same thing wardens did,

so in short, if you gave shalks to stamDKs, stamDKs would be the new stamdens.

If warden didn't had sub assault/shimmering shield , nobody would complain about it, It would be just an ordinary class.

When people die to a stamden pain train combo, they don't go and say ''Hey that class is so broken man, look at those passives.''

They look at their death recap to see the shalks-swing-dbos combo that hit them for 16k+ burst in a split second. The passives only add to the insult.

And yes, stamden passives are amazing, I would be lying if I said it isn't.

Lynx7386

"They look at their death recap to see the shalks-swing-dbos combo that hit them for 16k+ burst in a split second. The passives only add to the insult."

And less than half of that damage burst came from the shalks. I'm tired of people seeing this "combo" and blaming it on shalks when they just got murdered by an ultimate.

The only reason shalks works well in that combo is because of the delay, which is also it's greatest weakness, something that nobody on the receiving end of that death recap can wrap their tiny brains around.

Ragnarock41

Lynx7386 wrote: »

"They look at their death recap to see the shalks-swing-dbos combo that hit them for 16k+ burst in a split second. The passives only add to the insult."

And less than half of that damage burst came from the shalks. I'm tired of people seeing this "combo" and blaming it on shalks when they just got murdered by an ultimate.

The only reason shalks works well in that combo is because of the delay, which is also it's greatest weakness, something that nobody on the receiving end of that death recap can wrap their tiny brains around.

Without a delay with that kind of tooltip, shalks would be ridicilously broken, because It would turn into spammable dawnbreaker with even bigger range than dawnbreaker.

It doesn't really require 200 IQ to see why instant high damage AOEs should not be spammables, if anything , the only thing that keeps stamdens under control is that 3 second delay.

MagDks do have a similarly working ability called inhale,with a delay on it. But the damage on it is nowhere near as high as shalks and It centers the DK instead of ''hit everything in front of you''. The morph of it returns some of the cost based on how many targets were it.

the difference between inhale and shalks is that one is aoe done right, other is aoe done wrong. But I'm not really asking for sub assault nerfs here. I don't even care at this point, I play a stamden myself and I'm actually enjoying PvP after soo many months of waiting class balance now.

Azurya

lets be honest, warden has not much skills which are useable, cause all got nerfed into the graveyard.
a warden can be great with skills from 2handed and bow/Dw skilline

on the other hand the stam-dk has a lot to offer in his skillline, go for it!