Templar Tank

AstralSaiyan

I have recently leveled to CP 160 as a magicka Dps DK and wanted to try out a tank. However since I have already played a DK I would like to play a templar tank but it seems there is a sort of stigma with Templar tanks. To me they seem like the type of class that would make a great paladin type character. I have started up a Templar with a nord because they have health and stamina passives and I would like to role with stamina. Any advice about this stigma and how Templar tanks preform in dungeons would be great.

Narvuntien

Pretty much the same thing I did.

Templar tanks can even do normal trials fine... I am not sure about vet DLC dungeons though. I think the guy that did my last normal trial was an imperial (judging from his character name).

Sadly my templar tank is magicka based so I am not sure how much help I can be.

The problem with templar tanks are that they have no CC at all. You have no way to hold down mobs so if some impatient dps attacks the mob before you well you have to run around and taunt all the trash before it overwhelms them.

As a magicka based templar I use volcanic rune to keep them off my dps long enough for them to kill them.

I am pretty sure the tank I was running normal trials with with was using Shield charge and maybe Power bash as their CC options, they are just single target only which means you can't hold back the trash.

aeowulf

MegaToxic wrote: »

I have recently leveled to CP 160 as a magicka Dps DK and wanted to try out a tank. However since I have already played a DK I would like to play a templar tank but it seems there is a sort of stigma with Templar tanks. To me they seem like the type of class that would make a great paladin type character. I have started up a Templar with a nord because they have health and stamina passives and I would like to role with stamina. Any advice about this stigma and how Templar tanks preform in dungeons would be great.

There is a stigma for all non dk tanks. (and warden to a degree) Even if they were in the same place as dk they would still not be sought for groups. The only way to remove this is to make those classes more powerful at tanking than dk until the stigma is gone, then bring them down to a balanced level.

Same can be said for non-templar healers... so work out how you'd like to see that fixed, an apply the same principles to tanks.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

aeowulf wrote: »

MegaToxic wrote: »

I have recently leveled to CP 160 as a magicka Dps DK and wanted to try out a tank. However since I have already played a DK I would like to play a templar tank but it seems there is a sort of stigma with Templar tanks. To me they seem like the type of class that would make a great paladin type character. I have started up a Templar with a nord because they have health and stamina passives and I would like to role with stamina. Any advice about this stigma and how Templar tanks preform in dungeons would be great.

There is a stigma for all non dk tanks. (and warden to a degree) Even if they were in the same place as dk they would still not be sought for groups. The only way to remove this is to make those classes more powerful at tanking than dk until the stigma is gone, then bring them down to a balanced level.

Same can be said for non-templar healers... so work out how you'd like to see that fixed, an apply the same principles to tanks.

We see how zos does this with healers, they nerf things down, hard. Hardly ever an actual buff. See the shards nerf. The major mending nerf. The repentance gutting. We don't want them to gut dk tanks(anymore then they already have) like they did Templar healers.

Checkmath

another possibility for you to run as templar tank would be an ice staff. it gives similar block cost reduction and mitigation as one hand and shield. plus depending on you choice, block can cost magicka. additionally ice blockade could solve a bit of your crowd control problem, since mobs get slowed down and even can get rooted nicely with a charged ice staff.

Swen_von_Walhallion

well i have with my Tankplar done all DLC dung, and most of trial (except vHoF and vMoL) and its fine. But is much harder then with DK, you must rly care about your stamina, and learn when you can use HA and block only bu sunshield. O trash fight is problem you have no AoE CC, then you are forced using caltrops from PvP for puling and agroing group of mobs. And third problem you have no chains, which forced you most of time using swarm mother et tu pul ranged enemy to you. on other side you can use lots of suport skills as cleansing ritual to get aoe heal ad cure for party ( an proc earthgore on hard fight to save oyur teeammates) or Remebrance ultimate as you *** ultimate when your healr is down and group need burs heal to survive. or Empowering Sweep ultimate which is rly cheap and can give you crazy amout of dmg reduction, and with warmachine set your stamina DD in group will love it for major slayer buff. Or you can use luminous shard to help your group with resource sustain when healer is lazy or dont have tie for it. And as tteplar ith chaneling focus you have rly nice mana managmanet in combination with Spell Symmetry from mage guild here is no chace for you to be OOM.

But compare to DK, you must war in bag more tanking and moster sets fro chose one for right situation and know beter boss mechanics bc teplar is not so forgiwing as DK when tanking.

raj72616a

templar tank has Meditation to restore stamina and Time Stop for crowd control

aeowulf

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

MegaToxic wrote: »

I have recently leveled to CP 160 as a magicka Dps DK and wanted to try out a tank. However since I have already played a DK I would like to play a templar tank but it seems there is a sort of stigma with Templar tanks. To me they seem like the type of class that would make a great paladin type character. I have started up a Templar with a nord because they have health and stamina passives and I would like to role with stamina. Any advice about this stigma and how Templar tanks preform in dungeons would be great.

There is a stigma for all non dk tanks. (and warden to a degree) Even if they were in the same place as dk they would still not be sought for groups. The only way to remove this is to make those classes more powerful at tanking than dk until the stigma is gone, then bring them down to a balanced level.

Same can be said for non-templar healers... so work out how you'd like to see that fixed, an apply the same principles to tanks.

We see how zos does this with healers, they nerf things down, hard. Hardly ever an actual buff. See the shards nerf. The major mending nerf. The repentance gutting. We don't want them to gut dk tanks(anymore then they already have) like they did Templar healers.

Too much nerfing going on. Every nerf is effectively an admission of a previous error.

One of the worst things is the unintended consequences are never resolved. I very much doubt ZOS thought about two stamplars in a group not being able to share corpses when it was changed. They will of just looked at the skill and decided it outperforms, so needs reducing. It has such a reliance on corpses that it will over or underperform on what you are fighting. it's only balanceable when you look at a specific fight. VS a target dummy or single boss, it's borderline useless. Against trash, it's probably great. Siphoning was too powerful for DPS so balanced. It's now probably roughly right for DPS NB's. That change was not tank friendly so it effectively removed NB tanks. The worst bit about THAT saga is the one attempt to help NB tanks broke the skill they tweaked...

There is more of an issue around ZOS not being vocal about these types of changes, you know the ones where roles are effectively removed from a group. Who would play a stamplar right now? Join a random group with a templar tank or another stamplar and you run the risk of getting kicked and sitting in finder for another 30 mins. Yet the forums erupt when theres a 1% dps change due to a tweak. The destruction of a class/role gets overlooked.

Everyone has to band together and speak out about not just their own classes, but other classes in roles they are lacking. Otherwise we will only ever see groups with a dk tank, templar healer, stamblade and a magsorc. That sounds like a boring place to be

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

raj72616a wrote: »

templar tank has Meditation to restore stamina and Time Stop for crowd control

In June. What about right now man. @aeowulf that is probably the most coherent response I have seen about repentance and syphoning attacks. You don't seem to have any bais for nbs, like you normally do and give repentance the due diligence on how bad it is. Good work.

Merlin13KAGL

My Magplar can tank any four man so far, using shields as the primary defense, block secondary.

As Stamplar, you're obviously going to put more points into block cost redux, sturdy armor, and shieldplay enchants.

Channeled focus is still strong, plus crazy magRegen for your stam character. Radiant Ward is still health % based so it's your templar Obsidian ward. You can tack on Bone Shield too, if needed (also health %)

Ritual of Retribution for the snare and passive aggro, plus the small HoT and purify. Repentance, of course.

After that, it's the usual stuff. Pierce Armor, Heroic Slash, Absorb Magic (morph of your choice or none at all), Spell Wall / Empowering Sweep., Vigor, Honor the Dead, Inner Fire (morph of your choice). Shielded Assault/Focused Charge (morph of choice)

You can dual S&B, S&B/Frost, S&B/DW as you wish.

Flex spots for Destro line if you wish, Orbs, Blood Altar, Structured Entropy (more health), Circle of Protection, Mystform

Swarm Mother (poor man's chains), Engine Guardian, Lord Warden, Bloodspawn, Troll King, Chudan, Earthgore, Thurvokun, Pirate Skele and the 5 piece sets combination of your choosing. (Plague/Poet/Ebon + ???)

The playstyle is considerably different, but a lot of the same rules apply.

jypcy

Templar tank is definitely doable. I’ve tanked vBrF and vSP hardmodes on my Templar healer with just throwing a snb and some heavy armor on him, so I imagine it’s even more effective if you actually build for it I also know people are using Templar tanks in vAS hardmode, but I haven’t heard of any in vMoL or vHoF. Imo vHoF should definitely be doable on a Templar tank, so vMoL is the only content I’m uncertain about for one (I imagine it’s possible, though).

Checkmath

in vMoL dk tanks just perform better with chains, which are very important for the mini bosses at the twins.

AstralSaiyan

It is really disappointing that ZOS really only made one class for proper tanking. I am looking to be a tank and an off tank. Is CC really that important as a tank? I also want to be able to solo dungeons even though I have people to do dungeons with. It seems like I may need to go DK even though I really would like to play Templar. I heard Templar tanks used to actually be really good until their shield skill got nerfed because of pvp, which seems to be a massive issue and reason classes get the nerf hammer. But like I said I would like to go stamina but I’m not sure if Templar has enough stamina morphs or if I will need to put points into magicka as well.

AstralSaiyan

I would like to add, how well does a Templar off tank work? Or solo Templar? Or if you can do a solo templar off tank?

Dredlord

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

MegaToxic wrote: »

I have recently leveled to CP 160 as a magicka Dps DK and wanted to try out a tank. However since I have already played a DK I would like to play a templar tank but it seems there is a sort of stigma with Templar tanks. To me they seem like the type of class that would make a great paladin type character. I have started up a Templar with a nord because they have health and stamina passives and I would like to role with stamina. Any advice about this stigma and how Templar tanks preform in dungeons would be great.

There is a stigma for all non dk tanks. (and warden to a degree) Even if they were in the same place as dk they would still not be sought for groups. The only way to remove this is to make those classes more powerful at tanking than dk until the stigma is gone, then bring them down to a balanced level.

Same can be said for non-templar healers... so work out how you'd like to see that fixed, an apply the same principles to tanks.

We see how zos does this with healers, they nerf things down, hard. Hardly ever an actual buff. See the shards nerf. The major mending nerf. The repentance gutting. We don't want them to gut dk tanks(anymore then they already have) like they did Templar healers.

Wow you really flip flopped/waffled from your posts in that other thread about mending.

Thanks for educating yourself, I really appreciate your effort.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Dredlord wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

MegaToxic wrote: »

I have recently leveled to CP 160 as a magicka Dps DK and wanted to try out a tank. However since I have already played a DK I would like to play a templar tank but it seems there is a sort of stigma with Templar tanks. To me they seem like the type of class that would make a great paladin type character. I have started up a Templar with a nord because they have health and stamina passives and I would like to role with stamina. Any advice about this stigma and how Templar tanks preform in dungeons would be great.

There is a stigma for all non dk tanks. (and warden to a degree) Even if they were in the same place as dk they would still not be sought for groups. The only way to remove this is to make those classes more powerful at tanking than dk until the stigma is gone, then bring them down to a balanced level.

Same can be said for non-templar healers... so work out how you'd like to see that fixed, an apply the same principles to tanks.

We see how zos does this with healers, they nerf things down, hard. Hardly ever an actual buff. See the shards nerf. The major mending nerf. The repentance gutting. We don't want them to gut dk tanks(anymore then they already have) like they did Templar healers.

Wow you really flip flopped/waffled from your posts in that other thread about mending.

Thanks for educating yourself, I really appreciate your effort.

lol what are you talking about?

Merlin13KAGL

MegaToxic wrote: »

It is really disappointing that ZOS really only made one class for proper tanking. I am looking to be a tank and an off tank. Is CC really that important as a tank? I also want to be able to solo dungeons even though I have people to do dungeons with. It seems like I may need to go DK even though I really would like to play Templar. I heard Templar tanks used to actually be really good until their shield skill got nerfed because of pvp, which seems to be a massive issue and reason classes get the nerf hammer. But like I said I would like to go stamina but I’m not sure if Templar has enough stamina morphs or if I will need to put points into magicka as well.

MegaToxic wrote: »

I would like to add, how well does a Templar off tank work? Or solo Templar? Or if you can do a solo templar off tank?

Stacking the adds is important and aggro is important. CC simply assists with that, and chains/gate was built for that. You can still soft aggro and snare adds with Ritual of Retribution. The reason CC helps is that in large pulls, you cannot taunt everything. CC keeps things in the AoE's and keeps adds from your group. Templar simply does not have a substitute for that.

Talking of soloing dungeons involved focus on DPS (unless you intend to be there all day) and that is a different setup than a tank, both gear and skills.

Regarding tanking, as I previously said, you can still clear 4 man with a proper build. It's harder than on DK, but not impossible. Trials are a much harder transition (at least the vet variety), as they just lend themselves to DK and Warden more so than any other class, just like Argonian and Imperial are the favored races for such.

Just as with other tanks, you're going to want your first focus to be health, then a reasonable stat pool (each) after that. Determining where that level is will be based on the skills you choose and how you play. You can always fine tune with glyphs and gear.

Templar tanks do lend themselves more to the magicka variety due to a number of support skills. Stamina is still possible though. You can go here and see every skill and morph in the game, and decide your loadout accordingly.

As far as main tank vs off tank, a tank is a tank, for the most part. OT will generally have to eat less direct damage large hits, but will often have to keep adds busy while the MT MT's. Again, tough without chains. In some fights (Ozura adds, Serpent adds), the OT's job is often arguably harder than the MT's job, though.

Decide which role you want first, focus your build primarily towards that. Then decide if you intend to shield (magicka) or block (stamina) as your primary defense.

Then try it out. You can always adjust, respec, and regear (or at least re-enchant). The only one that will ultimately be able to answer your question is you.

Last thing, bear in mind if you intend to dual role, you either won't be min/maxed or you'll be respeccing something every time you switch. Many of the CP trees are separated nicely enough (block cost not in same tree as penetration, for instance) that you can average it out and potentially dual role without a CP respec each time. You can be effective, you just won't be as effective.

I've a magplar that can tank and heal. I've a stamplar that can tank and dps. It can be done.

Aurielle

MegaToxic wrote: »

It is really disappointing that ZOS really only made one class for proper tanking. I am looking to be a tank and an off tank. Is CC really that important as a tank? I also want to be able to solo dungeons even though I have people to do dungeons with. It seems like I may need to go DK even though I really would like to play Templar. I heard Templar tanks used to actually be really good until their shield skill got nerfed because of pvp, which seems to be a massive issue and reason classes get the nerf hammer. But like I said I would like to go stamina but I’m not sure if Templar has enough stamina morphs or if I will need to put points into magicka as well.

People will be looking for CC and some form of chaining/range pulling in a tank -- it's not just about taunting the boss. On a Templar, the only way to pull in ranged adds is to use Swarm Mother (by rushing into a room with block held down, or taunting/blocking with Inner Fire if necessary). The Psijic Order line should make it easier to do more effective CC, but you still need Swarm Mother for ranged pulls and stacking...

As for dipping more so into stamina than magicka, it really just depends on your race and your gear, and what you want to do. Since PUGs are usually terribad, I need to ensure that my tanks can pull at least 10k DPS to make up for crappy players; that usually means I need to focus on one stat. Most dedicated tanks only hit 5k DPS. If you're with a good group of friends, you'll want more of a hybrid/traditional tanking build where your stats are concerned (balanced magicka and stamina with stamina slightly higher, and then as much health as you can get, preferably 35k+). My Templar is an Imperial, currently wearing Plague Doctor, Seducers, and Swarm Mother. All points are in stamina because I use Vigor as my primary heal, not HtD. With health and stamina food, I've got 36k health and 30k stamina. Only 11k magicka, though (with 1,200 mag recovery). The only magicka skills I use are ritual of retribution and inner fire, so that works for me. If you still want to give Templar tanking a try, just figure out what works for you and be prepared to respec a lot.

Tasear

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

MegaToxic wrote: »

I have recently leveled to CP 160 as a magicka Dps DK and wanted to try out a tank. However since I have already played a DK I would like to play a templar tank but it seems there is a sort of stigma with Templar tanks. To me they seem like the type of class that would make a great paladin type character. I have started up a Templar with a nord because they have health and stamina passives and I would like to role with stamina. Any advice about this stigma and how Templar tanks preform in dungeons would be great.

There is a stigma for all non dk tanks. (and warden to a degree) Even if they were in the same place as dk they would still not be sought for groups. The only way to remove this is to make those classes more powerful at tanking than dk until the stigma is gone, then bring them down to a balanced level.

Same can be said for non-templar healers... so work out how you'd like to see that fixed, an apply the same principles to tanks.

We see how zos does this with healers, they nerf things down, hard. Hardly ever an actual buff. See the shards nerf. The major mending nerf. The repentance gutting. We don't want them to gut dk tanks(anymore then they already have) like they did Templar healers.

Although shield between shield could use some balance for dk healer guys out there.

Tasear

Maybe another method them chaining them would be nice for all non do tanks. Maybe something these guys could do at range?

Would like see clanfear be able to sent out to take down range adds. Have it hold a taunt and able pull back?

Templar what if javelin could Pierce them down so it's not a issue.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Tasear wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

MegaToxic wrote: »

I have recently leveled to CP 160 as a magicka Dps DK and wanted to try out a tank. However since I have already played a DK I would like to play a templar tank but it seems there is a sort of stigma with Templar tanks. To me they seem like the type of class that would make a great paladin type character. I have started up a Templar with a nord because they have health and stamina passives and I would like to role with stamina. Any advice about this stigma and how Templar tanks preform in dungeons would be great.

There is a stigma for all non dk tanks. (and warden to a degree) Even if they were in the same place as dk they would still not be sought for groups. The only way to remove this is to make those classes more powerful at tanking than dk until the stigma is gone, then bring them down to a balanced level.

Same can be said for non-templar healers... so work out how you'd like to see that fixed, an apply the same principles to tanks.

We see how zos does this with healers, they nerf things down, hard. Hardly ever an actual buff. See the shards nerf. The major mending nerf. The repentance gutting. We don't want them to gut dk tanks(anymore then they already have) like they did Templar healers.

Although shield between shield could use some balance for dk healer guys out there.

I agree, the simplest way to fix this is to make it that if a player you cast igneous shields on already has obsidian shield and morphs on them and the sheild is bigger then the one you would give them, you don't give them one. This way only the ones that would benefit from your sheild would get one.

Merlin13KAGL

Tasear wrote: »

Maybe another method them chaining them would be nice for all non do tanks. Maybe something these guys could do at range?

Would like see clanfear be able to sent out to take down range adds. Have it hold a taunt and able pull back?

Templar what if javelin could Pierce them down so it's not a issue.

This was totally possible when Command Pet actually worked.

You could send familiars one direction, drop AoE's another, then single target focus a third without worry that your heavy attacks would undo the clear and obvious Command you previous gave. The only time familiars would choose a new target was when the old one died.

The HA as a familiar priority is asinine. If you wanted to redirect your familiar before, you simply Left Clicked and hit CP on the new target. Same for if you wanted your pets not to engage, but still needed to be able to heavy attack.

You'd Command Pet to the ranged add, then recall the pet to bring it in.