Should Cloak be broken by DoT's?

TheDoomsdayMonster

There have been a lot of threads created lately about how OP Nightblades are, and while I do believe that there are things in this game that are arguably more OP than they are, I feel its undeniable that some of their abilities are bit overtuned...

Case in point...Cloak.


At current, this ability is able to suppress DoT abilities like Structured Entropy and allow the Nightblade to successfully Cloak out and escape unharmed...

IMHO, this is what makes Cloak too powerful; they are able to disengage from a fight too readily because of features like this...

IMHO, if a Nightblade (or any other class for that matter) wishes to be free of a DoT, then he/she should have to wait out the DoT's duration or slot and utilize a Purging/Cleansing ability just like anyone else has to...

I genuinely feel that if you are taking Damage over Time, then that damage should immediately break Cloak and force the Cloaking Nightblade to become visible once more...


So...

How does the Hive Mind here on the ESO Forums feel about this?

vrine

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

Literally being able to escape undetected is part of the Nightblade class. If DoTs managed to break cloak, they'd basically never be able to use it.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Yes, Cloak should be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

vrine wrote: »

Literally being able to escape undetected is part of the Nightblade class. If DoTs managed to break cloak, they'd basically never be able to use it.

That's not true...

You'd simply have to cleanse/purge the DoT just like anyone else would have to before Cloaking...

ak_pvp

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

No. It would make Cloak useless.

It should take damage from them, even 50% would be fine.

Darkdex

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

Where is my LOL button?

TheDoomsdayMonster

Yes, Cloak should be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

ak_pvp wrote: »

No. It would make Cloak useless.

It should take damage from them, even 50% would be fine.

Whats wrong with the Nightblade having to Purge/Cleanse the DoT 1st?

Savos_Saren

Yes, Cloak should be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

ak_pvp wrote: »

No. It would make Cloak useless.

It should take damage from them, even 50% would be fine.

They should take full damage from DoTs while cloaked.

DDuke

Let's see... Efficient Purge... yikes, 5131 Magicka, over half my stamblade's magicka pool.

...and what's that, an axe bleed/random poison proc right after I spent over half my magicka pool purging previous DoTs?!


Sorry, but this must be one of the stupidest ideas I've ever read on the forums (which is an accomplishment by itself btw, so congrats).

TheDoomsdayMonster

Yes, Cloak should be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

Darkdex wrote: »

Where is my LOL button?

I ask you the same question: whats wrong with a Nightblade having to Cleanse/Purge a DoT before Cloaking?

TheDoomsdayMonster

Yes, Cloak should be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

DDuke wrote: »

Let's see... Efficient Purge... yikes, 5131 Magicka, over half my stamblade's magicka pool.

...and what's that, an axe bleed/random poisoned poison proc right after I spent over half my magicka pool purging previous DoTs?!


Sorry, but this must be one of the stupidest ideas I've ever read on the forums (which is an accomplishment by itself btw, so congrats).

I think its a great idea because it forces you to make tough character building decisions instead of stacking damage to the ceiling...

If you have a Damage over Time effect present on your character, then it should bring you out of stealth the instant it ticks; if you don't want this to happen then you should have to Cleanse/Purge the DoT 1st...

This makes perfect sense as far as I can see...

kypranb14_ESO

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

There have been a lot of threads created lately about how OP Nightblades are, and while I do believe that there are things in this game that are arguably more OP than they are, I feel its undeniable that some of their abilities are bit overtuned...

Case in point...Cloak.


At current, this ability is able to suppress DoT abilities like Structured Entropy and allow the Nightblade to successfully Cloak out and escape unharmed...

IMHO, this is what makes Cloak too powerful; they are able to disengage from a fight too readily because of features like this...

IMHO, if a Nightblade (or any other class for that matter) wishes to be free of a DoT, then he/she should have to wait out the DoT's duration or slot and utilize a Purging/Cleansing ability just like anyone else has to...

I genuinely feel that if you are taking Damage over Time, then that damage should immediately break Cloak and force the Cloaking Nightblade to become visible once more...


So...

How does the Hive Mind here on the ESO Forums feel about this?

Sure, when Wards no longer shield you from DoT.

If DoTs broke Cloak, Stamblades would be nonexistent outside of structure groups, and Magblades would all ward stack like Sorcerers.

I would be fine if DoTs broke cloak under one circumstance - Give cloak the ability to purge negative effects back.

vrine

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

vrine wrote: »

Literally being able to escape undetected is part of the Nightblade class. If DoTs managed to break cloak, they'd basically never be able to use it.

That's not true...

You'd simply have to cleanse/purge the DoT just like anyone else would have to before Cloaking...

And use extra resources to do so just to use one of your class' main skills? Just say you hate NBs.

AlnilamE

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Darkdex wrote: »

Where is my LOL button?

I ask you the same question: whats wrong with a Nightblade having to Cleanse/Purge a DoT before Cloaking?

How long does it take to cleanse/purge? How long does cloak last? What happens if you get another DoT right after you cleansed? Or are you proposing that Cleanse/Purge give immunity to DoTs for a certain amount of time?

As others have pointed out, the ability to cloak is the trademark of the nightblade. That is already countered by AoEs, Flare and Mage Light. You don't need to add another thing that makes Cloak not work.

ak_pvp

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

No. It would make Cloak useless.

It should take damage from them, even 50% would be fine.

Whats wrong with the Nightblade having to Purge/Cleanse the DoT 1st?

Purge is 2 RANDOM cleanses for 4k mag. By the time they cleansed all the dots, assuming no reapplication, there would be no mag left to cloak. It takes over 20k Mag to clear 10 effects.

With reapplicaton could spam a single dot and they would never be able to Cloak. It is an awful idea and would completely kill NB. Not even a nerf, just dead.

Tryxus

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

Considering the cost of the skill, it would put too much pressure on a StamBlade's resource pool if he has to Cloak on top of it as well (plus other Magicka skills like Fear etc)

And even then, Purge only removes 2 effects. With debuffs and snares on top of DoTs, there's no guarantee that a StamBlade would be able to remove the DoTs in order to successfully Cloak.

This isn't forcing a StamBlade to make tough decisions regarding his build, it would straight up destroy his main defense mechanic

Darkdex

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Darkdex wrote: »

Where is my LOL button?

I ask you the same question: whats wrong with a Nightblade having to Cleanse/Purge a DoT before Cloaking?

The problem is... for the most part, nobody aside from templars (which have dedicated cleanse) actually cleanse the dots you put on them. They can out-heal them, shield-stack them, resist them, etc.

Nightblades are super-quishy compared to other clases, they need to actually attack you so they can heal themselves. So if cloak couldn't supress the dots, they will be the only class using purge (which is suuuper expensive) to remove one harmful effect that can be reapplied immediately for 1/3 of the purge cost.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Yes, Cloak should be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

vrine wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

vrine wrote: »

Literally being able to escape undetected is part of the Nightblade class. If DoTs managed to break cloak, they'd basically never be able to use it.

That's not true...

You'd simply have to cleanse/purge the DoT just like anyone else would have to before Cloaking...

And use extra resources to do so just to use one of your class' main skills? Just say you hate NBs.

Why must you assume I hate Nightblades?

Is it hate to recognize that a particular ability is overtuned? I think not...


Once again, if a character is taking Damage over Time, then hiding in the shadows should not automatically stop that effect from working...

And, IMHO, if you are taking damage to any degree, it should bring you out of Stealth...

TheDoomsdayMonster

Yes, Cloak should be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

AlnilamE wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Darkdex wrote: »

Where is my LOL button?

I ask you the same question: whats wrong with a Nightblade having to Cleanse/Purge a DoT before Cloaking?

How long does it take to cleanse/purge? How long does cloak last? What happens if you get another DoT right after you cleansed? Or are you proposing that Cleanse/Purge give immunity to DoTs for a certain amount of time?

As others have pointed out, the ability to cloak is the trademark of the nightblade. That is already countered by AoEs, Flare and Mage Light. You don't need to add another thing that makes Cloak not work.

I am fine with Cloak being a Nightblade trademark...

What I am not fine with is being able to Cloak while being damaged with a DoT ability...

Savos_Saren

Yes, Cloak should be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

ak_pvp wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

No. It would make Cloak useless.

It should take damage from them, even 50% would be fine.

Whats wrong with the Nightblade having to Purge/Cleanse the DoT 1st?

Purge is 2 cleanses for 4k mag. By the time they cleansed all the dots there would be no mag left to cloak.

I could spam a dot and they would never be able to Cloak. It is an awful idea and would completely kill NB. Not even a nerf, just dead.

The fact that if they sneak up and do the Incap, Fear, Surprise Attack, Execute combo on you... if you manage to survive and hit them with Burning Embers... then they cloak, ignore all damage, and reset the fight. Now they can keep doing it again and again... while the mDK just dies. Yay DoT builds!

TheDoomsdayMonster

Yes, Cloak should be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

There have been a lot of threads created lately about how OP Nightblades are, and while I do believe that there are things in this game that are arguably more OP than they are, I feel its undeniable that some of their abilities are bit overtuned...

Case in point...Cloak.


At current, this ability is able to suppress DoT abilities like Structured Entropy and allow the Nightblade to successfully Cloak out and escape unharmed...

IMHO, this is what makes Cloak too powerful; they are able to disengage from a fight too readily because of features like this...

IMHO, if a Nightblade (or any other class for that matter) wishes to be free of a DoT, then he/she should have to wait out the DoT's duration or slot and utilize a Purging/Cleansing ability just like anyone else has to...

I genuinely feel that if you are taking Damage over Time, then that damage should immediately break Cloak and force the Cloaking Nightblade to become visible once more...


So...

How does the Hive Mind here on the ESO Forums feel about this?

If DoTs broke Cloak, Stamblades would be nonexistent outside of structure groups, and Magblades would all ward stack like Sorcerers.

I don't think this is true...

You'd simply have to be really good at what you do (assassinate people) and then being hit with a DoT becomes a non factor...

Or you could cut back a bit on that 4k+ weapon damage and expend some resources for a larger Magicka pool...

TheDoomsdayMonster

Yes, Cloak should be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

ak_pvp wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

No. It would make Cloak useless.

It should take damage from them, even 50% would be fine.

Whats wrong with the Nightblade having to Purge/Cleanse the DoT 1st?

Purge is 2 RANDOM cleanses for 4k mag. By the time they cleansed all the dots, assuming no reapplication, there would be no mag left to cloak. It takes over 20k Mag to clear 10 effects.

With reapplicaton could spam a single dot and they would never be able to Cloak. It is an awful idea and would completely kill NB. Not even a nerf, just dead.

It wouldn't kill Nightblade; if you are facing a single foe, DoT'ing you up can take time and you can do a lot of things to your target while he/she is DoT'ing you up...

And besides, Nightblades often have the advantage of being able to make the Alpha Attack (and actually the Alpha Combo) in their fights due to their excellent stealth abilities...

ofSunhold

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

Sure, as soon as I can't BOL if there's a DOT on me, and a sorc can't shield if there's a DOT on him, and everybody with sword & board, sorry no you can't block while there's a DOT on you.

You guys keep whining about cloak and get it nerfed again, you're going to be dealing with stamblades in heavy armor right up in your face instead of in medium being dodgy and cloaky, and you're not going to like it. And NO we don't want everybody to have to carry the ridiculously expensive AvA purge, or be all the time hugging a templar.

Stoppit.

ak_pvp

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

Savos_Saren wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

No. It would make Cloak useless.

It should take damage from them, even 50% would be fine.

Whats wrong with the Nightblade having to Purge/Cleanse the DoT 1st?

Purge is 2 cleanses for 4k mag. By the time they cleansed all the dots there would be no mag left to cloak.

I could spam a dot and they would never be able to Cloak. It is an awful idea and would completely kill NB. Not even a nerf, just dead.

The fact that if they sneak up and do the Incap, Fear, Surprise Attack, Execute combo on you... if you manage to survive and hit them with Burning Embers... then they cloak, ignore all damage, and reset the fight. Now they can keep doing it again and again... while the mDK just dies. Yay DoT builds!

The first part of that is fine, they are the high damage assassin class. The only time I die to that is if I get too cocky and sprint or get knocked of my horse.

The second part needs fixes though. Dots should damage. It'd help dot classes finish off, would force NB to spec into other defence, and the counters should work more reliably but less zergily.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Yes, Cloak should be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

Darkdex wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Darkdex wrote: »

Where is my LOL button?

I ask you the same question: whats wrong with a Nightblade having to Cleanse/Purge a DoT before Cloaking?

The problem is... for the most part, nobody aside from templars (which have dedicated cleanse) actually cleanse the dots you put on them.

Then maybe people should start using cleanse...


Can you tell me honestly that it makes perfect sense for a character to be able to Stealth out while being continuously damaged by a DoT ability?

That makes no logical sense whatsoever and you know it; you are constantly taking damage for godsake...

JobooAGS

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

Taking damage while cloaked, ok. Dots removing cloak, no

Avran_Sylt

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

If you want that, then it would have to be buffed a helluva lot, considering how many DoTs exist in this game.As it would stand it would be nothing more than a glorified block.

Rohamad_Ali

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

Hell no .

TheDoomsdayMonster

Yes, Cloak should be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

ofSunhold wrote: »

Sure, as soon as I can't BOL if there's a DOT on me, and a sorc can't shield if there's a DOT on him, and everybody with sword & board, sorry no you can't block while there's a DOT on you.

You guys keep whining about cloak and get it nerfed again, you're going to be dealing with stamblades in heavy armor right up in your face instead of in medium being dodgy and cloaky, and you're not going to like it. And NO we don't want everybody to have to carry the ridiculously expensive AvA purge, or be all the time hugging a templar.

Stoppit.

Oh I'd be fine with Stamblades in heavy because there is a trade off for doing that which balances the playing field...

My issue is being able to Cloak out while having an active Damage over Time effect on your character...

If someone wants to cast Cloak while DoT'ed...fine, but that DoT should break the Cloak as soon as it ticks.

Vizier

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

Nightblades put up with cloak being broken by EVERYTHING for years. It was virtually useless. No WAY should cloak be made less effective.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Yes, Cloak should be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

Vizier wrote: »

Nightblades put up with cloak being broken by EVERYTHING for years. It was virtually useless. No WAY should cloak be made less effective.

So are you saying that despite the fact that it makes no sense to be able to Cloak out while having an active Damage over Time effect on you, that you should be able to Cloak out while DoT'ed anyway?

TheDoomsdayMonster

Yes, Cloak should be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

I do think that the cost of Purge should be reduced a bit, but being able to Cloak out while having a DoT on you?

No way...

That should not be possible...