The cheesiest poison

Feanor

I don’t run poisons. I despise them. They’re a crutch. That said, what’s the cheesiest poison in game in your opinion? Personally to me it’s double health ravage poison with infused oblivion glyphs and bleeds. I’d be interested to hear your selection.

MalakithAlamahdi

I really dislike the resource cost ones as well. They're absolute overkill.

VaranisArano

I really don't have a problem with poisons. They might be mildly annoying when I notice them, but rarely more than that.

BohnT

All of them are absolutely ridiculous and should be removed.
My top 3.
Root + stamina cost
Stamina + magicka drain
Double health poison + resource cost

IZZEFlameLash

Poisons are powerful as if this is a single player TES game. This should not have been the case tbh.

Top 3:
1. Double Health Poison
2. Resource/Ult Poison
3. Root Poison

GreenhaloX

Poison is as cheesiest as monster set can be for PvP, but, it is a resource to be utilized, and those without it can be in a bit of a disadvantage in a 1vX or duel. However, there are the under 50 campaign where you don't have monster set. Well, if poison is taken away altogether for PvP, I would still be fine with it, but, it is a resource, and it can be the deciding factor on whether you win or get bested in a fight.

Elsterchen

All of the simple ones... reducing recovery for 10,5 seconds plus having a cooldown of 10s means they are up almost 100% of the time.

They are mean.

VaranisArano

IZZESparkling wrote: »

Poisons are powerful as if this is a single player TES game. This should not have been the case tbh.

Why not? Its not like enemies couldn't drain your resources/attributes in the single player games (though the counter there was to open your menu and chug whatever potions you needed into the the hurt went away.)

So I'm actually curious. Why is it a problem that poisons are as powerful as in a single-player TES game where you faced enemies that could drain your resources and attributes? Is it because the NPC versions generally weren't that powerful compared to what your character could use against NPCs? Or is it that the counter isn't as available as opening your menu and chugging a bunch of potions/eating a bunch of watermelons? Or something else that I'm missing?

Feanor

@VaranisArano

NPCs aren’t a) zerging/Xv1 on a player and b) are acting the same always. It’s different with humans. They really utilize these things much better than any NPC ever could.

Turelus

Feanor wrote: »

VaranisArano

NPCs aren’t a) zerging/Xv1 on a player and b) are acting the same always. It’s different with humans. They really utilize these things much better than any NPC ever could.

So what you're saying is you only like to fight unfair fights against stupid opponents?

DeadlyRecluse

Double damage is pretty dumb, as is any variety of resource drain.

Really, I don't think they are *that* much stronger than enchants, it's just that they tend to be more irritating and noticeable.

SquareSausage

Ban poisons.

Koolio

Cc immunity ones with assasins guile. You can get almost 100% uptime of CC immunity.

VaranisArano

Feanor wrote: »

VaranisArano

NPCs aren’t a) zerging/Xv1 on a player and b) are acting the same always. It’s different with humans. They really utilize these things much better than any NPC ever could.

So, if I understand correctly, its frustration with having those poisons you could use on NPCs in the single-player games now used back at you and better by other players? I remember stacking poisons on NPCs, so its not like there's no precedent for that either.

I mean, isn't that what PVP is? Players using skills back at you and better than NPCs? If poisons used by large groups are the problem, I'm not sure why poisons are taking the blame instead of the zerg itself. If I get 1vXed, I tend not to blame the individual skills that killed me and more the situation I got myself into.

BohnT

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Double damage is pretty dumb, as is any variety of resource drain.

Really, I don't think they are *that* much stronger than enchants, it's just that they tend to be more irritating and noticeable.

30% cost increase is ridiculously op.
Also when comparing resource drain glyphs and drain poisons.
The glyphs afe only better when used with infused. The poison can be run with nirn which will give you more damage and just a smidgen less sustain
The double damage poisons completely outperform the glyphs damage wise
And things like the special debuffs, roots and snares that ignore immunity are just completely unbalanced

Feanor

Turelus wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

VaranisArano

NPCs aren’t a) zerging/Xv1 on a player and b) are acting the same always. It’s different with humans. They really utilize these things much better than any NPC ever could.

So what you're saying is you only like to fight unfair fights against stupid opponents?

Yes I love to fight EP Sadly they recently just waltz over me with superior numbers, but it’s ok. I’ll get the tick if I’m dead too.

@VaranisArano

No, it’s that poisons diminish possible counterplay when they directly attack your resources or your health. It creates a situation where whom’s poison procs first has a huge advantage, very similar to proc sets. The design isn’t good.

Thogard

The immovable / Stam poison. It’s a brutal combo because the immov poison ignores root immunity and forces a dodge roll, so the Stam poison is going to affect that dodgeroll. You can also hit them with a DBoS mid roll to really make the opponent suffer.

BohnT

Thogard wrote: »

The immovable / Stam poison. It’s a brutal combo because the immov poison ignores root immunity and forces a dodge roll, so the Stam poison is going to affect that dodgeroll. You can also hit them with a DBoS mid roll to really make the opponent suffer.

Your Stamwarden really deserved the name Thogaids

VaranisArano

Feanor wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

VaranisArano

NPCs aren’t a) zerging/Xv1 on a player and b) are acting the same always. It’s different with humans. They really utilize these things much better than any NPC ever could.

So what you're saying is you only like to fight unfair fights against stupid opponents?

Yes I love to fight EP Sadly they recently just waltz over me with superior numbers, but it’s ok. I’ll get the tick if I’m dead too.

VaranisArano

No, it’s that poisons diminish possible counterplay when they directly attack your resources or your health. It creates a situation where whom’s poison procs first has a huge advantage, very similar to proc sets. The design isn’t good.

I can see not liking poisons if you also don't like proc sets. Poisons are a proc, just like an enchantment or a set proc.

I personally don't have a problem with most proc sets, so it makes sense that I'm also not bothered by poisons.

Grimlok_S

I'm most bothered by the root poison. It shouldn't root me through forward momentum, or while in mist.

Those abilities specifically grant immunity to roots and snares.

Biro123

I don't like any poisons or crafted potions.

Basically any consumable that gives an advantage in PvP that requires time in pve/farming is something I don't like.

Basically, I'd rather spend 100% of my time pvp-ing without being disadvantaged by doing so.

Now if mats came in reeards for the worthy, I'd have a different view.

TheBonesXXX

I like the utility of poisons, just like I like the utility of pots.

Marcus684

*Writing* “Stam cost + root poisons are the worst” Uh...I have to go over to this Alchemy Station for a uh...totally unrelated reason.

Ragnarock41

I run double damage poisons on my stamDK because those dots, unlike my class dots feels very strong.

Also run conspicuous poisons from time to time.

IZZEFlameLash

VaranisArano wrote: »

IZZESparkling wrote: »

Poisons are powerful as if this is a single player TES game. This should not have been the case tbh.

Why not? Its not like enemies couldn't drain your resources/attributes in the single player games (though the counter there was to open your menu and chug whatever potions you needed into the the hurt went away.)

So I'm actually curious. Why is it a problem that poisons are as powerful as in a single-player TES game where you faced enemies that could drain your resources and attributes? Is it because the NPC versions generally weren't that powerful compared to what your character could use against NPCs? Or is it that the counter isn't as available as opening your menu and chugging a bunch of potions/eating a bunch of watermelons? Or something else that I'm missing?

Because, this is not a single player TES game. It is MMO and it should not be a substitute for class skills and enchants. It should be a tiny supplement. But as is, it might as well be the main offensive/defensive tool. Poisons are used to sustain and damage people simultaneously. I briefly used poisons and the difference in survivability and kill rates were noticeable. I can no longer afford poisons but it is that strong. In single player, it would not be a problem because NPCs are not real people (and NPCs tend to have bloated stats to compensate for their dumbness).

Imo, in a MMO like this, it should be a tool to supplement your damage and defense not the main tool of offense and defense. People still will run poisons to get that edge even if the poisons were toned down and made necessary to build around it just like any other non-Zaan/Caluurion type of proc sets.

SirAndy

Feanor wrote: »

That said, what’s the cheesiest poison in game in your opinion?

Skooma ...

Izaki

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Double damage is pretty dumb, as is any variety of resource drain.

Really, I don't think they are *that* much stronger than enchants, it's just that they tend to be more irritating and noticeable.

Infused weapon with a Damage enchant (like Disease or Shock) is higher burst, more reliable burst and more reliable source of effects such as Minor Vulnerability and Minor Defile than most Poisons since Infused Enchants can be activated every 2.5 seconds (aka every other skill cast). Enchants on a non-Infused weapon are kinda meh compared to poisons though. Since Infused and Nirnhoned are currently the best traits in both PvP and PvE, I think that they are pretty balanced actually. The only thing that I find a bit disappointing about poisons is the abundancy of effects that are only accessible through poisons.
The Resource Drain poisons are a bit ridiculous and should be lowered to 15-20% cost imo.

Waffennacht

Izaki wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Double damage is pretty dumb, as is any variety of resource drain.

Really, I don't think they are *that* much stronger than enchants, it's just that they tend to be more irritating and noticeable.

Infused weapon with a Damage enchant (like Disease or Shock) is higher burst, more reliable burst and more reliable source of effects such as Minor Vulnerability and Minor Defile than most Poisons since Infused Enchants can be activated every 2.5 seconds (aka every other skill cast). Enchants on a non-Infused weapon are kinda meh compared to poisons though. Since Infused and Nirnhoned are currently the best traits in both PvP and PvE, I think that they are pretty balanced actually. The only thing that I find a bit disappointing about poisons is the abundancy of effects that are only accessible through poisons.
The Resource Drain poisons are a bit ridiculous and should be lowered to 15-20% cost imo.

They were designed for CP resources. In no CP their effectiveness (resource poisons) should be cut in half (15%)

Slick_007

i dont usually use poisons. i carry lots because of writs though. when the you know what hits the fan though, i load em up. it may just make the difference. I dont really notice getting hit by them myself. I do notice im dying or out of resources. Who cares why at that point.

Anethum

Mana/stamina damage poisons definitely.
Drain poisons also crap ***, but at least uptime much less.
30% of increasing cost, i feel zenimax doesn't understand the real meaning of so big number in current obstacles.
I want this value to be reduced to 16-20% of increasing cost.
Also, drain should be simple drain without increasing cost debuff

IZZEFlameLash

diplomatt wrote: »

Mana/stamina damage poisons definitely.
Drain poisons also crap ***, but at least uptime much less.
30% of increasing cost, i feel zenimax doesn't understand the real meaning of so big number in current obstacles.
I want this value to be reduced to 16-20% of increasing cost.
Also, drain should be simple drain without increasing cost debuff

Even 2-5% would have seen the use of resource poisons tbh. As well as drain health poisons doing half the damage would still see use.