Magplar build, 5LA Brass vs 5HA Shacklebreaker

eol

which is your pick for a magplar dps/healing hybrid for pvp: both have 2x Valkyn Skoria and 4 x Warlock with warlock sword on 1H/S backbar and destr staff on front bar. (Those are a given, IO am very happy with them). The other armor set would be either: 5x Shacklebreaker with 5H/2L, or 5x Fortified Brass with 5L/2H. Fortified Brass in 5LA would give NET benefits of -6% spell cost, +70 Magicka recovery, +2191 Spell Crit, +4884 spell pen and +3.3k Phys resist and +4.4k Spell resist (with my wards up this would put me close to the 33k resist cap). On the other hand, Shacklebreaker in 5HA would give +129 Spell damage, +2000 stam, +2000 magicka, +129 stam recov, and the HA bonuses of 8% healing received, +50 health recov, constitution bonus of +324 Mag and Stam every 4 secs when hit, and +25% magicka recovery from heavy attacks (which frankly I dont need a lot in pvp since I switched to warlock). I am leaning towards the Brass LA, but wonder if the crit, pen and resists are worth the tradeoffs in raw stats. (The extra resists from Brass 5LA are pretty significant though, about as big as the difference between 5HA and 5LA, which is a big reason so many people are in HA in the first place.) Opinions? Thanks!

Checkmath

i would recommend shacklebreaker in heavy, since it allows you to get very good sustain by using witchmothers. this further can push your spelldamage, since you can invest more by having more sustain. penetration and crit are worthless against shield users and crit isnt that big of a deal, since everyone runs impen in pvp. so i highly recommend shacklebreaker in your case with 5 heavy armor pieces. you will be very glad to have the stamina sustain from shacklebreaker and from heavy armor, especially when you tend to block heal, when in danger.

Checkmath

if you miss the penetration, you can add elemental drain to your destro bar, if you like to get the lost crit, use vampires bane, which gives you major prophecy for its duration.
as long as you dont use mistform, i would switch warlock with lich, but only in that case, otherwise it should be fine.

Checkmath

additionally i am not sure, what you mean by wards....
in your light setup, i wouldnt use absorb magic as a damage shield, but i think you refer to the resistance buff rune focus.

eol

right, Major Ward and Major Resolve.

Thanks for the comments, very helpful!

Brutusmax1mus

Why not shackle in light?

CatchMeTrolling

Just commenting on the crit statement in this thread since there’s a really big misconception with crit and impen. Having high crit still matters, it isn’t useless, there is no crit cap and even if you have 3k impen I’m still going to hit you for extra damage. Plus, not as many people wear impen as people like to believe, fight enough zergers (majority of cyrodiil) and you’ll realize this. And in no cp any extra damage will make the difference.

Checkmath

i havent said, thats crit is useless, especially crit heals for magplars.
still i strongly recommend 5 heavy for every magplar, who desires some survivability and doesnt want to wear wizards riposte.
5 light shacklebreaker is pretty squishy, he wont be able to survive most gankblades like this.

Kartalin

I was messing around with this build for no cp a bit:
http://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=51093 and it seemed pretty decent for heal/support for groups with 8 or less.

Checkmath

Kartalin wrote: »

I was messing around with this build for no cp a bit:
http://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=51093 and it seemed pretty decent for heal/support for groups with 8 or less.

the build isnt bad, but with other sets there is much more potential. for example a buffed spelldamage with major and minor sorcery of 2.3k is quite low.

Skander

Shacklebreaker. For the stamina sustain

Kartalin

Checkmath wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

I was messing around with this build for no cp a bit:
http://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=51093 and it seemed pretty decent for heal/support for groups with 8 or less.

the build isnt bad, but with other sets there is much more potential. for example a buffed spelldamage with major and minor sorcery of 2.3k is quite low.

And that was my concern with the build as well, even in no cp it should be higher, like 2700-3000. Super tanky though so there's that.

Checkmath

even in heavy, 2.6k unbuffed spelldamage is possible, i would rather go for that than those 10% crit and pen and some fortified brass.

Minno

Checkmath wrote: »

even in heavy, 2.6k unbuffed spelldamage is possible, i would rather go for that than those 10% crit and pen and some fortified brass.

Who said you don't get 3k SD running brass?

Checkmath

its rather unlikely to get the same spelldamage with enough sustain, when you use a set without any boni towards magicka and spelldamage;)
i am sure, that you can go for 3k spelldamage in fortified brass, but you either will not have any sustain or you wont have any stamina for blocking and dodging.
if we look at the numbers from the buildeditor posted recently, all we can do is change mundus to apprentice and weapons to nirn, which results in around 600 spelldamage more. then we barely scratch the 3k spelldamage, but have less than 1k magrecovery. with dualwield, we get again around 300 more, makes 3.3k with major and minor sorcery, still less than 1k recovery. lets switch to witchmothers then, we again sit at 1.3k magrecovery probably, lich proc also gives around 400 recovery. fine damage is high, magrecovery fine too but as soon as somebody is going for cc, snaring and high burst, when you have to block, dodge and break free, you are *** up with those sets.

Brutusmax1mus

Checkmath wrote: »

even in heavy, 2.6k unbuffed spelldamage is possible, i would rather go for that than those 10% crit and pen and some fortified brass.

Check the math you'll find the crit and pene gives far more damage than a few hundred spell damage. You need crit for healing too.

Trans or wizards gives about the same mitigation as the difference between light and heavy and you get those great passives of light armor while helping your group.

Do you block a lot?

Checkmath

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Check the math you'll find the crit and pene gives far more damage than a few hundred spell damage. You need crit for healing too.

Trans or wizards gives about the same mitigation as the difference between light and heavy and you get those great passives of light armor while helping your group.

Do you block a lot?

thx for the advice, i play the class for a long time now and i know what light armor is worth on magplar.
i suggested to him going heavy, because it makes it easier for him to survive and to heal, when he isnt that experienced yet.
i didnt say penetration and crit are worthless, not even close to that, but both have counters in pvp.
i also said, that as long i dont use wizards riposte, i wouldnt go light anyway.
this is not only my opinion, but using heavy armor is for newer players just "better", since you have more chances to learn the game. anyway not even after playing magplar for years would i give up my current heavy setup for a light one and a lot of other magplars would agree.

and yes, i occasionally block and dodge in pvp.

Praeficere

.

Waffennacht

I've used all of the mentioned, and have had success with all of them. It's gonna depend on what skills and style you want.

@Praeficere imo, has a good post there

Checkmath

yeah it all depends on which playstyle suits you. praeficere's build has strong burst damage, i used the same for while, just with skoria instead of zaan. like this you also have great ranged power with a combo of reflective light, destructive reach and puryfying light.
but in melee fights you probably can get pressured fast too, especially if you have multiple enemies.
the old heavy armor sword and board/dual wield setup on the other hand is the face tank way to go, because it shines in crowded places with numerous enemies, since jabbing gets you quite the heal and you can put pressure on multiple enemies.
since we only know, that OP has a destro staff frontbarred, we cant give you perfect advice, since we cant assume your playsstyle like this. firestaff would rather go into the direction of praeficere's build, lightning staff rather the facetank build.
still, as long as wizards riposte isnt backbarred, i suggest the shacklebreaker setup for decent stamina sustain.

Ariades_swe

Praeficere wrote: »

I've been playing around with everything for a while and I prefer light armour.

Let me get this out first:

It's harder to facetank 1vX

Keyword, facetank

Now Puncturing Sweeps means you have to face tank, so you don't really use it unless it's against some guy who stands still

After cursing those mSorcs who've used Ele Drain for 3 years, I finally used it myself. It really is a no brainer to use a Destro over DW, granted you use Ele Drain

You have to DoT up, stay alive, /emote, CC before the purifying light pops and beam - most people in Cyro are afk when they fight. When Zaan procs, you go hard on whoever is on the receiving end

You're never going to win a 1v1 against a Heavy Magplar, and you'll probably lose more duels against good players when in light.

But for open world it's more fun and tactical than Heavy. The D/W + S/B Magplar is the oldest but the most boring. Anyone can play it and 1vX below to average players, or spam BoL against good players until they get bored and stop watching their stamina

Even when heal botting I prefer Light, more sustain and you still have damage when you need it

Even as an inexperienced Magplar I'd recommend 5 Light Brass, then switch over to 5 Light Shacklebreaker. I'd only recommend Heavy if you're fresh out of PvE spring spamming and want to block and BoL spam instead

I'm assuming you've already looking at the stat-balance between Light and Heavy, I'm not going into that.

I use 5/1/1:

• Zaan
• Shackle
• Master's Destro
• Wizard's Riposte S/B

Good post agree with most of it.
Personally I've had most success with certain light dw setups that backbars a charged frost staff in duels or 1v1 (overwhelming + wizard riposte or necro + trans and shadowrend) but it might be my playstyle.
Gonna try out heavy axiom, necro and shadowrend to see how it compares to my necro, trans, Shadowrend setup in duels.
I can't imagine playing light without a defensive set like trans or wizard though.

Minno

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Praeficere wrote: »

I've been playing around with everything for a while and I prefer light armour.

Let me get this out first:

It's harder to facetank 1vX

Keyword, facetank

Now Puncturing Sweeps means you have to face tank, so you don't really use it unless it's against some guy who stands still

After cursing those mSorcs who've used Ele Drain for 3 years, I finally used it myself. It really is a no brainer to use a Destro over DW, granted you use Ele Drain

You have to DoT up, stay alive, /emote, CC before the purifying light pops and beam - most people in Cyro are afk when they fight. When Zaan procs, you go hard on whoever is on the receiving end

You're never going to win a 1v1 against a Heavy Magplar, and you'll probably lose more duels against good players when in light.

But for open world it's more fun and tactical than Heavy. The D/W + S/B Magplar is the oldest but the most boring. Anyone can play it and 1vX below to average players, or spam BoL against good players until they get bored and stop watching their stamina

Even when heal botting I prefer Light, more sustain and you still have damage when you need it

Even as an inexperienced Magplar I'd recommend 5 Light Brass, then switch over to 5 Light Shacklebreaker. I'd only recommend Heavy if you're fresh out of PvE spring spamming and want to block and BoL spam instead

I'm assuming you've already looking at the stat-balance between Light and Heavy, I'm not going into that.

I use 5/1/1:

• Zaan
• Shackle
• Master's Destro
• Wizard's Riposte S/B

Good post agree with most of it.
Personally I've had most success with certain light dw setups that backbars a charged frost staff in duels or 1v1 (overwhelming + wizard riposte or necro + trans and shadowrend) but it might be my playstyle.
Gonna try out heavy axiom, necro and shadowrend to see how it compares to my necro, trans, Shadowrend setup in duels.
I can't imagine playing light without a defensive set like trans or wizard though.

Frost staff backbar is clutch for temps. Let's you get sustain, extras penetration, and various utilty spells and let's you use dual weld to get 3k SD.

That's let's to roll brass for defense, a set for Regen/defense, and an offensive monster set.

Ariades_swe

Minno wrote: »

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Praeficere wrote: »

I've been playing around with everything for a while and I prefer light armour.

Let me get this out first:

It's harder to facetank 1vX

Keyword, facetank

Now Puncturing Sweeps means you have to face tank, so you don't really use it unless it's against some guy who stands still

After cursing those mSorcs who've used Ele Drain for 3 years, I finally used it myself. It really is a no brainer to use a Destro over DW, granted you use Ele Drain

You have to DoT up, stay alive, /emote, CC before the purifying light pops and beam - most people in Cyro are afk when they fight. When Zaan procs, you go hard on whoever is on the receiving end

You're never going to win a 1v1 against a Heavy Magplar, and you'll probably lose more duels against good players when in light.

But for open world it's more fun and tactical than Heavy. The D/W + S/B Magplar is the oldest but the most boring. Anyone can play it and 1vX below to average players, or spam BoL against good players until they get bored and stop watching their stamina

Even when heal botting I prefer Light, more sustain and you still have damage when you need it

Even as an inexperienced Magplar I'd recommend 5 Light Brass, then switch over to 5 Light Shacklebreaker. I'd only recommend Heavy if you're fresh out of PvE spring spamming and want to block and BoL spam instead

I'm assuming you've already looking at the stat-balance between Light and Heavy, I'm not going into that.

I use 5/1/1:

• Zaan
• Shackle
• Master's Destro
• Wizard's Riposte S/B

Good post agree with most of it.
Personally I've had most success with certain light dw setups that backbars a charged frost staff in duels or 1v1 (overwhelming + wizard riposte or necro + trans and shadowrend) but it might be my playstyle.
Gonna try out heavy axiom, necro and shadowrend to see how it compares to my necro, trans, Shadowrend setup in duels.
I can't imagine playing light without a defensive set like trans or wizard though.

Frost staff backbar is clutch for temps. Let's you get sustain, extras penetration, and various utilty spells and let's you use dual weld to get 3k SD.

That's let's to roll brass for defense, a set for Regen/defense, and an offensive monster set.

I agree I love it. I actually got the the idea from you .
I used to frontbar lightning staff but I much prefer frost backbar dw front, especially after the buff to frost block.
Do you prefer heavy or light in your setup?

Minno

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Praeficere wrote: »

I've been playing around with everything for a while and I prefer light armour.

Let me get this out first:

It's harder to facetank 1vX

Keyword, facetank

Now Puncturing Sweeps means you have to face tank, so you don't really use it unless it's against some guy who stands still

After cursing those mSorcs who've used Ele Drain for 3 years, I finally used it myself. It really is a no brainer to use a Destro over DW, granted you use Ele Drain

You have to DoT up, stay alive, /emote, CC before the purifying light pops and beam - most people in Cyro are afk when they fight. When Zaan procs, you go hard on whoever is on the receiving end

You're never going to win a 1v1 against a Heavy Magplar, and you'll probably lose more duels against good players when in light.

But for open world it's more fun and tactical than Heavy. The D/W + S/B Magplar is the oldest but the most boring. Anyone can play it and 1vX below to average players, or spam BoL against good players until they get bored and stop watching their stamina

Even when heal botting I prefer Light, more sustain and you still have damage when you need it

Even as an inexperienced Magplar I'd recommend 5 Light Brass, then switch over to 5 Light Shacklebreaker. I'd only recommend Heavy if you're fresh out of PvE spring spamming and want to block and BoL spam instead

I'm assuming you've already looking at the stat-balance between Light and Heavy, I'm not going into that.

I use 5/1/1:

• Zaan
• Shackle
• Master's Destro
• Wizard's Riposte S/B

Good post agree with most of it.
Personally I've had most success with certain light dw setups that backbars a charged frost staff in duels or 1v1 (overwhelming + wizard riposte or necro + trans and shadowrend) but it might be my playstyle.
Gonna try out heavy axiom, necro and shadowrend to see how it compares to my necro, trans, Shadowrend setup in duels.
I can't imagine playing light without a defensive set like trans or wizard though.

Frost staff backbar is clutch for temps. Let's you get sustain, extras penetration, and various utilty spells and let's you use dual weld to get 3k SD.

That's let's to roll brass for defense, a set for Regen/defense, and an offensive monster set.

I agree I love it. I actually got the the idea from you .
I used to frontbar lightning staff but I much prefer frost backbar dw front, especially after the buff to frost block.
Do you prefer heavy or light in your setup?

Light armor but only if you can get resists in your sets stats to keep yourself at 21k physical armor. Because you can get 8% healing received from CP (or from restoring focus if you don't like to use channeled focus) and in nCP you need the penetration/crit chance light armor gives you.

Praeficere

.

Minno

Resto isn't bad either, but half the passives don't mix well with Templar passives for healing (and templars can't trade Magicka for stamina so the passive that returns mag on block is only for pve encounters).

Templars needed sustain, damage, ways to help protect their "house" and maybe use block. Frost staff checks all those requirements:
- ele drain gives sustain and 5280 penetration.
- wall of elements lays down an easier floor dot that punishes anyone that comes closer. Granted it's still low DMG, but it can proc poisons and has a low chance to proc minor defile without you doing anything else for those 8 seconds .
- impulse gives you the chance to debuff enemies with minor mangle. If you can't deal with higher DMG/tanky stamina toons, then might as well steal 10% of their health lol.
- frost reach let's you deslot a gap closer, has the same dot effect as vamps bane, and ignores hard cc immunity. It still won't proc the immobilze after someone dodge rolls, but the projectile looks exactly like a heavy attack unlike the fire/lighting staff reaches. Oh it also procs minor maim the highest next to enchants.

Honestly, SnB should only be used if you want 8% more block mitigation, block ultimate and an actual reflect ability. Otherwise frost staff offers more utility.