Sugestion: More stamina variants for skills please

abelsgmx

The game have 2 morphs per skill already, why can't be one for stamina an one for magicka? Stamina users have a very litte sinergy with class skills all is magicka based

Ragnarock41

trust me, you are maybe the 1000000th person suggesting this, and it is not gonna happen.
Sorry to crush your hopes, I would love a poison whip, but I don't see it happening.

Lynx7386

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

trust me, you are maybe the 1000000th person suggesting this, and it is not gonna happen.
Sorry to crush your hopes, I would love a poison whip, but I don't see it happening.

I would actually prefer seeing stone fist uses for a stamina spammable

Ragnarock41

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

trust me, you are maybe the 1000000th person suggesting this, and it is not gonna happen.
Sorry to crush your hopes, I would love a poison whip, but I don't see it happening.

I would actually prefer seeing stone fist uses for a stamina spammable

SPOILER ALERT: PERSONAL OPINIONS INCOMING!
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So , I honestly spent 2 hours thinking about what purpose would a stamina stonefist would serve,because it was suggested a lot before and I couldn't find any point to it.

Unless it has absurdly high tooltip I don't see it getting used as a pve spammable, because stamDK is mainly a dot class that does enchanted heavy attacks to sustain while the dots do the damage, a spammable would be okay I guess but really, there is just no need for it, even if Dk wants a spammable for pve, shrouded daggers/rapid strikes exist for that purpose.


For PvP I am able to get more than 9k tooltip on heroic slash, which makes me ask do I even want stonefist?

I guess I could use it if it had absurdly high tooltip or an amazing synergy or bonus that came with it, but other than that I dont really see it getting any use. and not to mention the animation for the skill is really not fluid at all compared to heroic slash or pierce armor.

Lets say it stays as a stun, then it creates this question: Why ever use stonefist over petrify or reverb bash?

So in a nutshell, I find stonefist to be a very useless ability overall, and the animation just adds more insult to it.

ZOS pls, just rework it completely lol.

Edit: In a sense it would serve like a DK version of warden's dive ability. Could be useful for a ranged Dk build, but I don't see them changing this for the last 2 guys on planet earth who play a bow/bow Dk

Lynx7386

My suggestion in another thread was to have the stamina morphs of stone fist deal increased damage to stunned enemies, and further increased damage to enemies below 25% health so dk has a proper execute.

The stun boost would work in conjunction with petrify, another rarely used ability, in a similar fashion to how whip works with talons to deal additional damage.

Ragnarock41

Lynx7386 wrote: »

My suggestion in another thread was to have the stamina morphs of stone fist deal increased damage to stunned enemies, and further increased damage to enemies below 25% health so dk has a proper execute.

The stun boost would work in conjunction with petrify, another rarely used ability, in a similar fashion to how whip works with talons to deal additional damage.

petrify is not a rarely used ability actually. It is very popular and literally every magDK will want to use it in PvP. The reason stamDKs usually take reverb bash over petrify is because stamDK has the lowest burst potential out of all stam toons and the defile helps you a lot with the added pressure. Otherwise petrify is a superior stun with more range, costs just a tiny bit of magicka, stuns, roots, is undodgeable, and unblockable, and it is also not useable on targets that are CC immune so you can't possibly waste your magicka with this ability.

That being said, Lets get one thing clear here, PvP stamDks do have an execute via 2h, and they have a very good synergy with asylum 2h. And because of the way abilities work and scale in this game, if stonefist was a spammable while also being an execute, it would be soo broken that everyone and their mums would use it.

Let me explain why;

The way executes work is that they do 2-3x(or even more sometimes) damage when the target is in the execute range. but execute abilities naturally have low base damage. If you make an execute with naturally high tooltip, it will just do what implosion does, instantly kill people when they're hit with it.

And implosion is such a toxic ability even sorcs hate getting killed by it.

Now you will say, ''but normal executes also kill low hp people easily'', thats not exactly right. normal executes have naturally low tooltip and do very tiny damage when target hp is high. if you make an ability that has high tooltip , but also is an execute, you just create a ''press this to win'' button.

I would love to see more stamina morphs for my DK, but doing it without proper thinking and balancing can be disasterous.
Hopefully I did explain well, why I think this is not a very good idea.

abelsgmx

Lynx7386 wrote: »

My suggestion in another thread was to have the stamina morphs of stone fist deal increased damage to stunned enemies, and further increased damage to enemies below 25% health so dk has a proper execute.

The stun boost would work in conjunction with petrify, another rarely used ability, in a similar fashion to how whip works with talons to deal additional damage.

True, dk's doesn't have an execute ability

Celestro

StamDks don't necessarily need an execute. They deal pretty solid damage with their DoTs coupled with their buffed heavy attacks. Their damage has taken a hit in group tests due to off balance changes, but their damage is still fairly considerable. I could see Stonefist as a stam spammable at least but eh.

GeorgeBlack

Not gonna happen

dodgehopper_ESO

There are a few skills they could make stamina. I wouldn't say make them all that way though.

Silver_Strider

A morph for eruption could easily be changed to do poison damage.

Just saying.

Kova

I think the great divide of 1.4 really sealed the player created stamina playstyle into weapon skill lines. Magicka use to be for skills, stamina was for physical weapons and movement. It was a great system until stats became super inflated and min/maxing was introduced in that update. Now we have the firey trainwreck that is eso, global cooldown oriented, combat.

From a gameplay standpoint I kind of understand it. At what point will changes like these basically make stamina builds into "green magicka" builds? As a general rule it's currently magica using class abilities as a main part of their build and weapons as utility vs stamina being the inverse.

Lynx7386

Silver_Strider wrote: »

A morph for eruption could easily be changed to do poison damage.

Just saying.

I agree. Change cinder storm to acid rain

dodgehopper_ESO

Kova wrote: »

I think the great divide of 1.4 really sealed the player created stamina playstyle into weapon skill lines. Magicka use to be for skills, stamina was for physical weapons and movement. It was a great system until stats became super inflated and min/maxing was introduced in that update. Now we have the firey trainwreck that is eso, global cooldown oriented, combat.

From a gameplay standpoint I kind of understand it. At what point will changes like these basically make stamina builds into "green magicka" builds? As a general rule it's currently magica using class abilities as a main part of their build and weapons as utility vs stamina being the inverse.

When they were first going to do this it was my contention they should have hybridized some skills. Some of the obvious skills to hybridize were the ones that are currently stamina (jabs, concealed weapon's other morph name that always eludes me, venom claws, etc.) These kinds of moves would have been neat as partial magic and partial stamina as they clearly have components of both (think of how the character physically throws the binding javelin, but summons it from wherever an aedric spear is summoned... aetherius?)

datgladiatah

Kova wrote: »

I think the great divide of 1.4 really sealed the player created stamina playstyle into weapon skill lines. Magicka use to be for skills, stamina was for physical weapons and movement. It was a great system until stats became super inflated and min/maxing was introduced in that update. Now we have the firey trainwreck that is eso, global cooldown oriented, combat.

From a gameplay standpoint I kind of understand it. At what point will changes like these basically make stamina builds into "green magicka" builds? As a general rule it's currently magica using class abilities as a main part of their build and weapons as utility vs stamina being the inverse.

Yeah I have to say that's a good point. Thematically it's very awkward for me to see the warden doing mystical looking abilities that are green rather than blue, or the templar still using holy abilities. I think the floating sword was a nice touch to power of the light, but i'm trying to understand why a warrior is summoning mystical animals or conjured weapons unless they were explicitly a battle mage (a hybrid).

It would be very easy, imo, if the stamina morphs for the Warden lets say displayed more physical looking cliff racers or shalks. I'd still like it if they made it into the haj mota though because the shalks look super awkward.

Generally speaking though not every ability for all lines fits within the 'stamina' paradigm. Options are nice but there should be reason. Stone fist or a 'miasma' ash pit make sense. Making a physical/wind version of streak for Sorcs, or a crystal hammer. But why would you make a stamina version of, say, liquid lightning? Or impale? The separation of what these abilities do is clear.

I think the real issue is; where are the default stamina abilities for classes? Why do they all need to be magicka by default? It seems like if they make more skill lines or add new classes, they should address this.

Lynx7386

I think they intend every character to be essentially a battlemage. Despite the droves of players that want to play a "pure" warrior, magic of some type has always been at the forefront of every elder scrolls game. You can't play morrowind without being the nerevarine, you can't play oblivion without being the chosen one to defeat mehrunes dagon's invasion, and you can't play skyrim without being the dragonborn.

I think that's why every character in eso has some degree of magical aptitude- we're all the vestige, and you can't be that without magic.

SkyIsTheLimit1206

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

trust me, you are maybe the 1000000th person suggesting this, and it is not gonna happen.
Sorry to crush your hopes, I would love a poison whip, but I don't see it happening.

I would actually prefer seeing stone fist uses for a stamina spammable

Yeah, I never understood why STONEfist dealt MAGIC Damage. Wtf ZOS, I mean, it's literally a STONEfist right?

It's a stonefist, it should deal physical damage, and maybe have a morph called "Lavafist" that deals flame damage or whatever for Magic users.

Sheesh

SkyIsTheLimit1206

Anyways, I would love to have a Stamina morph for at least one of the Sorc pets. My StamSorc running with pets... cmon, make Clannfear base of Stamina, it already deals physical damage anyways!

WillhelmBlack

Let's get physical (whip).

abelsgmx

I think each skill must have one stamina morph, that woul be great and more versatile builds

kypranb14_ESO

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

trust me, you are maybe the 1000000th person suggesting this, and it is not gonna happen.
Sorry to crush your hopes, I would love a poison whip, but I don't see it happening.

I would actually prefer seeing stone fist uses for a stamina spammable

It would have to have a huge cost because it gives ~1k stamina back per cast from the helping hands passive. lol

NobleX35

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I would actually prefer seeing stone fist uses for a stamina spammable

Personally, I would actually prefer a stam whip for multiple reasons. One being this:

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

trust me, you are maybe the 1000000th person suggesting this, and it is not gonna happen.
Sorry to crush your hopes, I would love a poison whip, but I don't see it happening.

I would actually prefer seeing stone fist uses for a stamina spammable

It would have to have a huge cost because it gives ~1k stamina back per cast from the helping hands passive. lol

Although I wouldn’t mind either way, as long as we got a class spammable.

idk

Most of the skills that don’t have a magicka morph are either buffs or the primary purpose is something other than damage. DK talons is an example that the primary purpose is the root.

Kanar

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I think they intend every character to be essentially a battlemage. Despite the droves of players that want to play a "pure" warrior, magic of some type has always been at the forefront of every elder scrolls game. You can't play morrowind without being the nerevarine, you can't play oblivion without being the chosen one to defeat mehrunes dagon's invasion, and you can't play skyrim without being the dragonborn.

I think that's why every character in eso has some degree of magical aptitude- we're all the vestige, and you can't be that without magic.

Yes the game was designed with a strong magicka preference and even the stamina morphs are tacked-on, "green magicka" as someone mentioned. Venom claw, noxious breath? The warrior class I want, wouldn't have that magical of abilities; he'd just have like toughness, reflexes, called shots, overpowering blow, weapon type abilities. Maybe a poisoned weapon but it wouldn't look like a magical claw strike.

I'd like more stamina morphs for variety, but since we are getting into green magicka territory with those I would almost prefer just a new weapon line and fixing the existing class stamina morphs animations so they're not so magical.