Should Zaan be nerfed ? Proc meta to return? - please vote.

Starlight_Knight

In pvp personally i think Zaan is toxic and op. it goes against zenimax's actions in the past of nerfing proc sets only to now introduce this madness.
Is this just a sales tactic to get people to farm the new dungeons ?
Are ZOS bringing back the proc meta?

Turelus

Whilst a nerf now would fix the current issue set (Zaan) I think we need to look at how proc sets work within PvP overall or we'll just be back here again in a few months.

Mazbt

Yes nerf Zaan, i hate proc sets.

When I say I hate proc sets it's in the context of pvp.

joaaocaampos

Don't nerf Zaan i love all proc sets

Yes, make sure all DLC sets and monster sets are useless! Nerf it! Nerf will not change a thing: you will not stop being noob.

ak_pvp

Don't nerf Zaan i love all proc sets

Procs are a good idea to spice up combat away from the usual samey playstyle. RNG procs, and things without counter are bad.

Kingslayer513

Don't nerf Zaan, But i hate other proc sets.

There are plenty of other cancerous proc sets, but Zaan is not one of them. It's so easy to counter, just move away for the briefest moment and BOOM it's on cooldown. I get it that accidents happen, but if you're consistently dying to Zaan then it's a L2P issue.

Side note: I really enjoy Zaan as a niche single target dps set in PVE and I'd be pretty salty if we got another big nerf due to PVP players QQing again.

Minalan

Yes nerf Zaan, i hate proc sets.

If you want people here to vote against Zaan, don’t hold your breath.

Potatoes love having their armor kill people for them.

But but but... *sobs* my super armored unkillable heal tank can’t do any damage without zaan!

Sabbathius

I didn't vote, because I'm torn.

On the one hand, I absolutely ADORE how you do a dungeon, see a mechanic (which usually kills me a few times), and then get a set that grants me the ability to do the exact same thing! Love it. But at the same time, yes, some sets are just absurd. Just thinking back to the old Veli/Viper, could crit, and correct me if I'm wrong Viper triggered off ranged attacks also? I mean, that was just stupid, completely inexcusable, never should have happened.

So it requires sanity on developers' part to evaluate things. As far as Zaan goes, I don't consider it anything special PvE wise, and I haven't done enough PvP since Dragon Bones to comment.

And having said all THAT, I still have a sinking suspicion it's all been done on purpose for purely financial reasons. Makes total sense. Release a DLC, with a pay wall. Put an obscenely overpowered item behind said pay wall. Which forced anyone wishing to be competitive to pay. Once they've paid, nerf the item. Best of both worlds - you get the money, AND you maintain the perception that you're a diligent developer who iterates on balancing. It could, of course, be Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." But is that really better? We're not greedy, just incompetent? lol

Vapirko

Yes nerf Zaan, i hate proc sets.

Turelus wrote: »

Whilst a nerf now would fix the current issue set (Zaan) I think we need to look at how proc sets work within PvP overall or we'll just be back here again in a few months.

We will be back here again regardless because ZOS has shown that proc sets are something they will continue to introduce. In the last year or so there have been huge discussions on proc sets and how they function in PvP, particularly around the time of the Selenes nerf and ZOS made adjustments to so many procs (a good thing) but clearly they will still introduce them as a way to sell content. I mean we just got done adjusting all of this stuff and they bring in Zaan. They remove AOE caps but introduce Earthgore. There can really be no doubt that ZOS is catering more towards the causal PvPer and so Im sure this conversation will come up again and again, and undoubtably we will see new OP sets in the upcoming updates.

ForsakenSin

you know i really wanted to get zaan and ive managed to get it, tested it against other players as dual and honestly i was like ...meh...

everybody i dueled just healed right through it and it takes a while to proc .. every 15 seconds im not sure about anybody else tool tip my one shows 4800 damage as basis so after that is 50% ect

however with Skoria its effect can occur once every 5 seconds and tool tip is 12k damage with 5k

so i don't know why everybody is saying its op ect ect and to nerf it am i missing something ?

what is everybody else damage for zaan ?

goldenarcher1

Buff Viper.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

Don't nerf Zaan i love all proc sets

I've got it and not used or even been killed by it yet, maybe console are scrubs who haven't tried it out yet?

ArchMikem

Don't nerf Zaan i love all proc sets

Did anyone pay attention during the PTS that ZAAN's already been nerfed once? It BARELY works, depending on who you ask, now with it's long cooldown, and people still want it to be full blown useless?

Tryxus

Yes nerf Zaan, i hate proc sets.

Destroy it

ccfeeling

Don't nerf Zaan i love all proc sets

Hey , Hayden , so you don't use any proc set right ?

Minalan

Yes nerf Zaan, i hate proc sets.

ForsakenSin wrote: »

you know i really wanted to get zaan and ive managed to get it, tested it against other players as dual and honestly i was like ...meh...

everybody i dueled just healed right through it and it takes a while to proc .. every 15 seconds im not sure about anybody else tool tip my one shows 4800 damage as basis so after that is 50% ect

however with Skoria its effect can occur once every 5 seconds and tool tip is 12k damage with 5k

so i don't know why everybody is saying its op ect ect and to nerf it am i missing something ?

what is everybody else damage for zaan ?

It get boosted by other stats (Dunmer fire bonus, etc) and then another two ticks is added by elfbane set. Those last extra two ticks pack a punch, and the proc set ends up doing more damage than an ultimate.

Skoria has a tiny proc chance on a DOT tick, and doesn’t hurt all that much comparatively. It’s hard to complain about an occasional 5-6K skoria when Caluurions hits for 8-9K or so, and Zaan is pulling 30K death recaps.

Plus you’ll have fights with skoria, long ones, where it doesn’t proc once (frustrating). You won’t get that with the other two sets.

ForsakenSin

Minalan wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

you know i really wanted to get zaan and ive managed to get it, tested it against other players as dual and honestly i was like ...meh...

everybody i dueled just healed right through it and it takes a while to proc .. every 15 seconds im not sure about anybody else tool tip my one shows 4800 damage as basis so after that is 50% ect

however with Skoria its effect can occur once every 5 seconds and tool tip is 12k damage with 5k

so i don't know why everybody is saying its op ect ect and to nerf it am i missing something ?

what is everybody else damage for zaan ?

It get boosted by other stats (Dunmer fire bonus, etc) and then another two ticks is added by elfbane set. Those last extra two ticks pack a punch, and the proc set ends up doing more damage than an ultimate.

Skoria has a tiny proc chance on a DOT tick, and doesn’t hurt all that much comparatively. It’s hard to complain about an occasional 5-6K skoria when Caluurions hits for 8-9K or so, and Zaan is pulling 30K death recaps.

Plus you’ll have fights with skoria, long ones, where it doesn’t proc once (frustrating). You won’t get that with the other two sets.

hmmm interesting , thank you for explaining, but using that you would loose stats on other ability ? and also you would need to make a specific build just for zaan and fire is that damage only relative to the minority of those builds ?

Waffennacht

ForsakenSin wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

you know i really wanted to get zaan and ive managed to get it, tested it against other players as dual and honestly i was like ...meh...

everybody i dueled just healed right through it and it takes a while to proc .. every 15 seconds im not sure about anybody else tool tip my one shows 4800 damage as basis so after that is 50% ect

however with Skoria its effect can occur once every 5 seconds and tool tip is 12k damage with 5k

so i don't know why everybody is saying its op ect ect and to nerf it am i missing something ?

what is everybody else damage for zaan ?

It get boosted by other stats (Dunmer fire bonus, etc) and then another two ticks is added by elfbane set. Those last extra two ticks pack a punch, and the proc set ends up doing more damage than an ultimate.

Skoria has a tiny proc chance on a DOT tick, and doesn’t hurt all that much comparatively. It’s hard to complain about an occasional 5-6K skoria when Caluurions hits for 8-9K or so, and Zaan is pulling 30K death recaps.

Plus you’ll have fights with skoria, long ones, where it doesn’t proc once (frustrating). You won’t get that with the other two sets.

hmmm interesting , thank you for explaining, but using that you would loose stats on other ability ? and also you would need to make a specific build just for zaan and fire is that damage only relative to the minority of those builds ?

Not really, I run Caluurion + Zaan. Caluurion is your typical proc set.

So there are two proc scenarios, one is offensive, you use a gap closer, proc it, and use the intense pressure to kill (ideally) and two someone comes within range and it procs while you're on the defensive.

I find the second to be the most useful. It essentially puts a time limit on your opponent's offense, and the advantage of that is massive. Especially to classes that lack a means of effective escape. Your simple survival could mean killing an opponent and more than likely will force a quick disengagement. The power to turn a 1v2 into a 1v1 is also massive.

I always get a kick out of killing an opponent because I was weaving healing ward

ForsakenSin

Waffennacht wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

you know i really wanted to get zaan and ive managed to get it, tested it against other players as dual and honestly i was like ...meh...

everybody i dueled just healed right through it and it takes a while to proc .. every 15 seconds im not sure about anybody else tool tip my one shows 4800 damage as basis so after that is 50% ect

however with Skoria its effect can occur once every 5 seconds and tool tip is 12k damage with 5k

so i don't know why everybody is saying its op ect ect and to nerf it am i missing something ?

what is everybody else damage for zaan ?

It get boosted by other stats (Dunmer fire bonus, etc) and then another two ticks is added by elfbane set. Those last extra two ticks pack a punch, and the proc set ends up doing more damage than an ultimate.

Skoria has a tiny proc chance on a DOT tick, and doesn’t hurt all that much comparatively. It’s hard to complain about an occasional 5-6K skoria when Caluurions hits for 8-9K or so, and Zaan is pulling 30K death recaps.

Plus you’ll have fights with skoria, long ones, where it doesn’t proc once (frustrating). You won’t get that with the other two sets.

hmmm interesting , thank you for explaining, but using that you would loose stats on other ability ? and also you would need to make a specific build just for zaan and fire is that damage only relative to the minority of those builds ?

Not really, I run Caluurion + Zaan. Caluurion is your typical proc set.

So there are two proc scenarios, one is offensive, you use a gap closer, proc it, and use the intense pressure to kill (ideally) and two someone comes within range and it procs while you're on the defensive.

I find the second to be the most useful. It essentially puts a time limit on your opponent's offense, and the advantage of that is massive. Especially to classes that lack a means of effective escape. Your simple survival could mean killing an opponent and more than likely will force a quick disengagement. The power to turn a 1v2 into a 1v1 is also massive.

I always get a kick out of killing an opponent because I was weaving healing ward

LOl interesting very very interesting

i might go back and theory craft something my self now... i guess its off to farm the Caluurion now lol

ofSunhold

Too bad we can't so easily fix the problem of people thinking they need their armor to do their fighting for them. It's weird how sanguine people are about that.

Abysswarrior45

Yes nerf Zaan, i hate proc sets.

Free damage shouldn't exist. Get rid of it. L2P people who need it to kill anything. L2Combo.

Tasear

Don't nerf Zaan i love all proc sets

Turelus wrote: »

Whilst a nerf now would fix the current issue set (Zaan) I think we need to look at how proc sets work within PvP overall or we'll just be back here again in a few months.

Turelus wrote: »

Whilst a nerf now would fix the current issue set (Zaan) I think we need to look at how proc sets work within PvP overall or we'll just be back here again in a few months.

this^

If there's really issue in pvp then it's more of an design issue on how monster helms work in pvp. Because in PvE it's becoming a gradually diminished reward to use some of them. LIke who would use nightflame with 6% change of aoe heal of 2k? These are suppose to be reward for hard content in PvE content. Maybe it's time to change how they work in pvp or give them their own.

ArchMikem

Don't nerf Zaan i love all proc sets

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Free damage shouldn't exist. Get rid of it. L2P people who need it to kill anything. L2Combo.

"Free Damage" doesn't exist. You actually have to attack for it to proc. What, does your set just fire off immediately when you walk over to something?

Abysswarrior45

Yes nerf Zaan, i hate proc sets.

ArchMikem wrote: »

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Free damage shouldn't exist. Get rid of it. L2P people who need it to kill anything. L2Combo.

"Free Damage" doesn't exist. You actually have to attack for it to proc. What, does your set just fire off immediately when you walk over to something?

Does a proc set cost you resources? No. Does the skill required to proc the set cost yo resources? Yes. The set itself is indeed free damage.

ForsakenSin

How about....

No proc sets of any kind in pvp ?

And leave it for pve ?

LeagueTroll

Yes nerf Zaan. But i don't mind other proc sets.

Minalan wrote: »

If you want people here to vote against Zaan, don’t hold your breath.

Potatoes love having their armor kill people for them.

But but but... *sobs* my super armored unkillable heal tank can’t do any damage without zaan!

Eww, why bother be able to kill tanky players when you gain 30k+ /hr by just spam rapid regen. 3 def sets + vma resto = true potatoes meta

Sergykid

Don't nerf Zaan, But i hate other proc sets.

look, another Zaan post.

doesn't need nerf, just an adjustment for PVP. Like every other monster helm should.

as a personal note, since the item went live i didn't see it once on PC/EU, and i played both Vivec and Shor, and a few duels at Bergama. I don't even how it looks live or how do i do against it.

Hurtfan

Don't nerf Zaan i love all proc sets

Reading about zaan before experiencing it, I thought, yeah maybe it should be nerfed. That's a lot of damage without doing anything.

However, after experiencing it in PvP, naw, don't nerf. I'm a glass cannon and I've only been killed by it twice. The first time it did 10K damage and that's because I was rooted. The 2nd time it only hit me for 5K if I remember right, and it was only part of the damage that killed me.

It really hasn't made as big an impact on PvP as I thought it would, when I first was reading about it.