Insta killing NB

TarrNokk

Does anyone of you have ever experienced kinda situation: 3 players flipping a flag in IC. Enemy NB comes outta stealth and kills first player who was stunned till death. Enemy NB ambush on second player and kills him in 2 seconds. Player 3 intervenes but got killed within a 2 seconds combo. All players were cp720 and experienced pvpers. How is this possible? Legit? Only possible with AC?

Lexxypwns

Yes it’s legit

No it doesn’t require animation canceling, which is legit anyway.

I question how experienced you are

TarrNokk

You can say it's legit, that's cool. Thank you Jesus.

VaranisArano

I'd also lean towards legit. Its happened to me and my friends when we're messing around on our group builds and ran into a really good solo player. There are some players that are really good at 1v1, and I know I'm not one of them for all that I'm experienced at group PVP.

oXI_Viper_IXo

AC is legit and if you don't do it as a NB, you're doing it wrong.

Dragath

could easily be legit.
the 3 players might not be as good and/or experienced as they think they are and there are builds/combos around that can do this.
death recap could give an answer to that.

Anethum

TarrNokk wrote: »

All players were cp720 and experienced pvpers.

definitely not expirienced, no matter on which class they were.

Sergykid

NBs are simply strong cuz they're built so as a class. And they have the best defensive tool too.

in wow the vanish spell has a high cooldown and is not accessible to anyone simply because of how strong it is in pvp. Here, it has no cooldown and evades u tons of dmg

Lexxypwns

diplomatt wrote: »

TarrNokk wrote: »

All players were cp720 and experienced pvpers.

definitely not expirienced, no matter on which class they were.

It’s unlikely, but maybe in no-CP where you can’t recover as easily

Waffennacht

Let me guess:
0 impen
And glass cannon builds?

Glass cannons die rather easily. Esp with less than 3k crit resistance

Thogard

Definitely hacks. Probably an instant kill hack combined with a lag hack. Seen it a bunch of times. Especially in IC which is where the best PvPers and the most hackers spend their time

Shadowmaster

Do you really think you will get a correct answer on these forums?

Most "good" players roll in groups of more than 3 that I see. They don't have a concept of this sort of thing because they are always in a group of more than 3.

Most "bad" players don't have a clue to answer you.

Most "cheaters" can't answer, they'd get banned.

Most "cheat enablers" would suggest ESO has never had a single cheater and have been in forums saying "those guys are legit" when they are then busted a few weeks later.

The rest of the casual/decent playerbase would have to see it, and who did it to you, to really know.

There are definitely some players that can do that with ANY class imo. But most times that wont happen.

I could see a invis>fear (everyone is cc'ed and lagging)>one guy dies instantly, next attack happens on player 2 while they are still lagged and player 1 is now dead. Player 2 dies quick leaving Player 3 to come out of lag/desync just in time to get rekt.

Hard to tell with so much lag all the time. The game plays fluid most of the time but really struggles at some points where it just will never ever feel smooth/fluid like some other games.

Waffennacht

Here's an example of a PvP player vs PvE player in a BG:

I see my target at a flag alone.
He is facing the other direction and not constantly turning (clue 1 PvE player)
As I walk up I decided to charge a heavy attack, I figure it's my hardest hitting ability that won't give me away immediately
The heavy hits dealing decent damage (clue 2 PvE player)
Use ability while player scrambles to face me
Player is hard CC'd but is waiting for hard CC animation to render (clue 3)
Player dies from Burst hit because of a severe lack of impen (clue 4)

I suspect this was a similar experience for the NB that killed you

Own

This is exactly how i open on resources with multiple semi-buffed people standing around. I'll go in on the people even if it is a fresh flipped flag with guards.

1. Kill the lowest health from stealth
2. ambush the far one away because he doesn't expect it
3. Use my incap from 2 kills to kill the 3rd

Don't take your hands off the keyboard, or feel safe when you're flipping flags

vamp_emily

Sometimes I go to PvP with nothing but divine gear and there is nothing like standing on a siege when a NB hits you with a 2 handed ultimate. I don't even see it happen before I die, I just hear the sound.

GreenhaloX

Fortunately, I have yet to be insta-killed by a NB. Oh, I get ambushed all the times by one coming out of stealth and trying to gank me, whether I'm standing on a wall blasting away with my siege, or on mount or on ground. Those being ganked or insta-killed must have some seriously low resistance, in general. On the flip-side, for me, NB is one of the easiest to kill, once you take away their ability to shadow or cloak out. Wimpy-ass way to fight when a NB is attacking and constantly disappearing and reappearing. Sure, tactful and stealthy and all, but damn, be a man and fight face-to-face or a mono-to-mono. It's because they really can't. Get that Evil Hunter or Mage Light on them, and they are toast, ideally. However, I have ran into a couple NB that I'm still wondering what the hell is that dude on or wearing, because it is like hitting a ton of brick or wouldn't die. Perhaps, it can be in the Lance Armstrong or A-Rod league..

Qbiken

Times I get instagibbed by stamblades:
* In no-CP (aka BG´s)
* Because of buggy stun from incap-strike (delayed stun)
* Because of buggy stun from Fear (especially when it gets animation-cancelled 99% of the time I see the fear symbol in my Srendarr debuff window before my character starts showing the animation that I´m feared)

Incap should work like it used to, where it stuns the enemy depending on your HP compared to theirs (not 100% sure how it used to work, but it was something where it stunned the enemy if you had lower HP than them)

Fear should work more like Roar (Werewolf fear) that can´t be animation-cancelled. The WW-fear works similar to a channelling ability and you can´t AC/dodge/block cancel it.

Own

Qbiken wrote: »

Times I get instagibbed by stamblades:
* In no-CP (aka BG´s)
* Because of buggy stun from incap-strike (delayed stun)
* Because of buggy stun from Fear (especially when it gets animation-cancelled 99% of the time I see the fear symbol in my Srendarr debuff window before my character starts showing the animation that I´m feared)

Incap should work like it used to, where it stuns the enemy depending on your HP compared to theirs (not 100% sure how it used to work, but it was something where it stunned the enemy if you had lower HP than them)

Fear should work more like Roar (Werewolf fear) that can´t be animation-cancelled. The WW-fear works similar to a channelling ability and you can´t AC/dodge/block cancel it.

Fear is really funny right now. I backbar it on purpose. Fear + weapon swap = fast af when lining up an incap or such. An added bonus is that it shows no animation what-so-ever.. lol

NyassaV

Git gud? Thats all I can say without more information about you. And judging by you saying Ani Cancelling isn't legit, I'm sticking with git gud

Malamar1229

Thogard wrote: »

Definitely hacks. Probably an instant kill hack combined with a lag hack. Seen it a bunch of times. Especially in IC which is where the best PvPers and the most hackers spend their time

Forgot 5pc CE set

Shadowmaster

l3alls wrote: »

Fear + weapon swap = fast af when lining up an incap or such. An added bonus is that it shows no animation what-so-ever.. lol

Working as intended.

Why would they even put in an extended after-skill-fires animation like that? oooo aesthetics. The skill shouldn't fire until the end of the animation or the animation should end the moment the skill fires. This is one of the only games that has this. Every other game I play I don't have to figure out special game-specific controller tricks to get the most out of the game. Its absolutely ridiculous.

Imagine if you could shoot 2x the bullets in PUBG if you constantly swapped weapons between shooting.

fred4

TarrNokk wrote: »

Only possible with AC?

If you have to ask this, you are not an experienced player yourself. AC is par for the course in all aspects of endgame, PvP and PvE.

l3alls wrote: »

Don't take your hands off the keyboard, or feel safe when you're flipping flags.

This.

If you are built for PvP, and you understand how to defend, as well as attack, your scenario is highly unlikely. To one player, sure, and yes, I have been successfully ganked, occasionally. But not to 3 players, who have time to react to the first one being attacked.

If you are a shielding build, you have to keep your shields up every 4 to 5 seconds, no exceptions.

If you have armor buffs, you must keep those up. For example, as NB, you might periodically Fear to activate the shadow passive (your armor buff) and flush out any cloaked players.

If you are a stamina build, you should probably perma-block while turning a flag. It's one option anyway. Keeping up Vigor is also good, as is standing in Caltrops, as is Shuffle / Double Take / Mirage.

Don't stand completely still. It makes it easy for an NB to wind up a heavy attack from cloak and combo you.

Don't group up too tight, so you avoid being bombed.

If you are an NB, always be prepared to cloak.

If you are a stamsorc, always keep up your Hurricane. NB can basically only Ambush you, not combo you with a heavy attack from stealth.

If you are a sorc, consider using Defensive Rune. It can stop a gank dead, if they don't use Immovable pots. If you are a 1H + S player, consider using Absorb Magic (or the other morph), and you can't be bow ganked. Both of these are long running defensive buffs that auto-activate on a gank.

If you are a mag warden, Living Trellis will offset any attacks with healing. You can also apply this to your colleagues that are standing on the flag with you.

In terms of build, all Impenetrable gear should be your default choice. Exceptions include "rolly poly" builds, who use some Well-fitted, and (perma-)blocking builds, who use some Sturdy. If you stack magicka very high (to 50K+), and you run shields, you might give up some Impen for Infused or Divines, but I wouldn't even do that personally.

As a DK, Templar, or Warden, I would build for some tankiness. That could mean heavy armor, or medium Fortified Brass / Armor Master, or light Wizard's Riposte, Transmutation, or Impregnable, and/or sets like Blood Spawn, Pirate Skeleton, or Troll King. You don't need all, but you probably want some defensive component, like those, in your build.

As a sorc you have mobility, in Streak, and as a mag sorc you particularly benefit from shields, thus it is viable to focus on high magicka and throw other tankiness to the wind, if you so choose.

Of course, I am generalising a lot. This is just to give you an idea how I would build. If this sounds like I am recommending tank builds, that is far from the intention. I play light and medium solo / small scale builds. A set like Wizard's Riposte, for example, is not a tanking set, but just a very balanced set with offensive, defensive, and sustain components.

I won't even mention spamming Radiant Magelight or Revealing Flare, which some groups do. I personally think you can be quite safe from ganks without those specialised skills.

fred4

I would agree that a single stamblade may outplay a group of 3. If the group has PvP experience though, I can't imagine the NB would be able to kill the second and third group member in two seconds each. Even if all you do is block, it should take a player longer to beat you.

When you get hit with an Incap Strike, you must react very defensively on most builds. The NB has a 6 second window, where they will typically do tremendous damage and they have you defiled. Break free, Block. Shield. Heal. Possibly purge, if you are a templar.

fred4

I forgot something: Always have your ulti ready. I tend to withhold my ulti when taking a flag, but if you used it, grab some NPCs and light attack them to rebuild your ulti. A typical build will include an offensive and a defensive ulti. If you get ganked, and your are unsure of the number of attackers, the resto ult, 1H+S ult, Warden trees, and DK Corrosive Armor are all good options to get your bearings. If the NB is smart, they may cloak and wait out your ult, in which case you may immediately attack NPCs to rebuild it.

If you are very tanky you probably don't have a problem with NBs, but it is worth mentioning that the tankier your are, the more of an advantage you have by starting a boss fight.

The sensible choice for dealing with stamblades is not to go after them, but stay calm and let them come to you. It is the one class you can play defensively against and still kill them, as many are squishy. As an NB yourself, you can mark them. As a magicka warden it is possible to catch them in the storm ulti and burst them while they are heavily snared. As a DK, try to fossilize them. As a templar, it can be quite effective to run after them and keep jabbing, since it's an AOE skill that will knock them out of stealth, and it also heavily snares. Of course, if they are using Eternal Hunt, running after them may not be viable.

If you put a DOT on them, make sure you turn on combat text, as you will see where a cloaked NB is going. If you have pet, pay attention to where the pet is going. For example the Shadowrend Clannfear follows cloaked NBs around.

fred4

Finally I wonder whether you were up against an Onslaught build. This is a very specific build using the 2H ulti, which aims to truly insta-kill you. I see this very rarely nowadays, but as long as the NB keeps killing players, they retain the ulti, which would explain something. To my knowledge the defenses are blocking, shielding, or having health in excess of 35K. I'm not sure whether Onslaught ganking builds are still viable. In the past, attacking with a physical attack, from crouch, from behind, yielded an insane damage bonus. I think ZOS removed that feature from the game, at least against players.

Hurika

Good players think they are good.
Bad players think they are good.

One way to tell which is true is that most good players have builds or keep defenses up so as not to insta die.

Waffennacht

fred4 wrote: »

Finally I wonder whether you were up against an Onslaught build. This is a very specific build using the 2H ulti, which aims to truly insta-kill you. I see this very rarely nowadays, but as long as the NB keeps killing players, they retain the ulti, which would explain something. To my knowledge the defenses are blocking, shielding, or having health in excess of 35K. I'm not sure whether this still works. In the past, attacking with a physical attack, from crouch, from behind, yielded an insane damage bonus. I think ZOS removed that feature from the game, at least against players.

One would think OP would have looked at his death recap...

Toast_STS

The group of three probably meant to queue into a normal dungeon but hit battlegrounds by accident.Sounds legit.

Minalan

As said before, avoiding a gank isn’t hard.

That green bar? It’s the most important one, even on a Magicka character. Dodge roll and break free are the best damage mitigation tools in the game. Add stamina regen and max stamina to your build, tri-stat foods and enchants work wonders without losing much. Dodge roll after a break free, and avoid the follow-up attacks.

Sorcs should use defensive rune and boundless storm. Casting shields constantly in the open with no visible enemies is frustrating and will leave you with no Magicka. That, and you’ll probably still die because they’ll just hit you five seconds after a shield cast. Boundless lasts four to five times longer than a shield, and defensive rune is up for two full minutes, they should last long enough to regenerate the cast cost back. Add in a set like Riposte, and a Sorc should be running around with near heavy armor mitigation. In 5 pieces of light.

jerj6925

TarrNokk wrote: »

Does anyone of you have ever experienced kinda situation: 3 players flipping a flag in IC. Enemy NB comes outta stealth and kills first player who was stunned till death. Enemy NB ambush on second player and kills him in 2 seconds. Player 3 intervenes but got killed within a 2 seconds combo. All players were cp720 and experienced pvpers. How is this possible? Legit? Only possible with AC?

I think this late in the games life its more of a lag issue\broken game functions, I cant tell you how many times I'm just instantly killed and then look to see 5+ attacks all landed on me in one attack animation? Or Ill get stunned/knocked down with full stamina and Ill just continue to lay on the ground while they kill me, its lag. Also I have radiant mage light on both bars and I shouldn't get stunned from an attack where they do it from stealth.. I still get stunned, not all the time but I would say about 40% of the time that happens. But NB and sorc's do benefit the most from lag.

On a side note I know cheating is becoming more and more a thing as people get board with the game and don't care if they get caught. just the other day I ran across a SORC who would keep going in to stealth every 3 to 4 seconds. all he would do is run up to me and do a small bash attack then stealth out then bash then stealth out, he kept doing this for about 4 minutes.

My ping time bounces from 7ms to 30ms, yes I monitor it when I play.

joe.smith21b14_ESO

I don’t see these nb’s