Rapid Strikes

JackSmirkingRevenge

Hello all,
I had a quick question, I have been away for a while and I am getting back into the game a bit more. I have been playing again for about a month. If I remember correctly I used to see rapid strikes in a lot of builds and no longer see it. Is there a reason it isnt used as much anymore? I am playing a stamina warden and most builds I see are using either shrouded daggers or cutting dive as a "spammable" (although some just heavy attack with sub assault). I can understand SD for dungeons and what not because of the AoE component, but for ST Is rapid strikes viable, seems like a cheap ability that hits as hard as the other 2, and can weave easier than cutting dive.

Any input would be helpful!

Thanks

ParaNostram

Commenting because I am also interested in this.

Royaji

Morrowind sustain nerfs hit spammables pretty hard and forced players to drop them in favor of heavy attacks. Pure spammables are just pretty often too expensive to be viable.

josiahva

I guess it all depends on class and build, stamsorc as an example uses Rapid Strikes pretty often. I myself use it on a hybrid stam/mag sorc I am playing around with since its one of the hardest hitting stam spammables I have access to, if I was a warden, I would also choose it over cutting dive...the biggest downside to it though for me is that for whatever reason, I cant stop its animation to block half the time.

bsupino

Rapid strikes used to be a thing due to vMA daggers. Since those are broken, nowadays is better to swap rapid strikes for shrouded dagger

Lynx7386

Mostly because shrouded daggers hits multiple enemies, does about the same damage single target when weaving heavy attacks, and you don't have to bother with another source of major brutality.


Bar space is limited. Whirlwind is great for aoe and rapid strikes is great for single target, but shrouded handles both with one ability slot plus the major buff.

Also if I recall correctly, rapid strikes is considered damage over time and is buffed by thaumaturge, while most other abilities for a stam sorc are direct damage so you put more points into that passive now.

neverwalk

put all companion abilities on one bar with cutting dive and increase your overall damage by 12%, and standing back to max distance while using cutting dive will further increase your damage. When enemy come at you-swap bars to rapid strikes and Steel Tornado to level the playing field.

Gilvoth

rapid strikes does less then half the damage of a light attack.

josiahva

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

rapid strikes does less then half the damage of a light attack.

A single strike maybe, but with each successive strike increasing in damage and being buffed further once enemies reach 25% health, that is completely irrelevant. Besides, you would be hard pressed to spam light attacks anywhere near that speed.

JackSmirkingRevenge

It sounds like the vma dagger nerf is a major reason. A warden is almost always going to run netch for sustain from what I gather and it also gives major brutality, that's why I was wondering about an alternative to sd.

Thanks for the input

NyassaV

Because combat is 80% heavy attacks now unless you are a nightblade... Great game ZoS

JobooAGS

neverwalk wrote: »

put all companion abilities on one bar with cutting dive and increase your overall damage by 12%, and standing back to max distance while using cutting dive will further increase your damage. When enemy come at you-swap bars to rapid strikes and Steel Tornado to level the playing field.

Cutting dive has no damage increase to range, the mag morph does

JackSmirkingRevenge

And you don't want them all on one bar because you want the passive on both bars...I usually run netch on the bow bar

xbobx

NyassaV wrote: »

Because combat is 80% heavy attacks now unless you are a nightblade... Great game ZoS

i spam skills regularly and never run out of resources. Why are you guys running out?

Chilly-McFreeze

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Also if I recall correctly, rapid strikes is considered damage over time and is buffed by thaumaturge, while most other abilities for a stam sorc are direct damage so you put more points into that passive now.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Hurricane, Caltrops, Endless Hail, the Dots pars of Poison Injection/ Rending Slashes/ Rearming Trap and of course Rapid Strikes are all considered DoTs. So I'd dare say that Thaumaturg still boosts the majority of stam sorcs damage. Not even counting Ultimates.

AFAIK it's bc of the changes to vma daggers.

Lynx7386

Hurricane, caltrops, and endless hail actually count as direct damage and do not benefit from thaumaturge.

The easiest way to test what is a dot and what isn't is to go use the ability on a target skeleton. If the damage numbers pop up in orange, its a damage over time. If the numbers are yellow or white, its direct damage.

I believe the initial hits for twin slashes and rapid strikes are direct damage, but the rest is considered damage over time.

My stamsorc runs shrouded daggers, Rearming trap, deadly cloak, endless hail, hurricane, and razor caltrops. Of those only Rearming trap counts as damage over time

FrostFallFox

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Hurricane, caltrops, and endless hail actually count as direct damage and do not benefit from thaumaturge.

The easiest way to test what is a dot and what isn't is to go use the ability on a target skeleton. If the damage numbers pop up in orange, its a damage over time. If the numbers are yellow or white, its direct damage.

I believe the initial hits for twin slashes and rapid strikes are direct damage, but the rest is considered damage over time.

My stamsorc runs shrouded daggers, Rearming trap, deadly cloak, endless hail, hurricane, and razor caltrops. Of those only Rearming trap counts as damage over time

I'm almost certain caltrops, endless hail, and hurricane are considered DoTs. They are AoE so the number is not orange.

JackSmirkingRevenge

lol my post was originally regarding a stamina warden and somehow all the feedback game in around stamsorcs...

Wreuntzylla

Lynx7386 wrote: »

...
The easiest way to test what is a dot and what isn't is to go use the ability on a target skeleton. If the damage numbers pop up in orange, its a damage over time. If the numbers are yellow or white, its direct damage.

...

This is the best I-didn't-know-that information I've ever received in this game. Not sure how I missed that in the patch notes.

Ladislao

Rapid Strikes is still the best single-target spammable ability in terms of damage. But the problem is cast time. In all the most successful rotations, there is simply no extra time for the ability with cast time.

Somber97866

Because ZOS decided to throw around the nerf ball

Lynx7386

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

...
The easiest way to test what is a dot and what isn't is to go use the ability on a target skeleton. If the damage numbers pop up in orange, its a damage over time. If the numbers are yellow or white, its direct damage.

...

This is the best I-didn't-know-that information I've ever received in this game. Not sure how I missed that in the patch notes.

Its not readily available info.

Tool tips can also tell you but they can be ambiguous at times. Typically if an ability says "deals x damage over y seconds" it is considered damage over time. If the ability says "deals x damage every y seconds for z seconds" its actually not a dot, its just intermittent direct damage.

So endless hail, which days "deals x damage every 0.5 seconds" counts for direct damage, while twin slashes, which says "deals x damage over 9 seconds" counts as damage over time. The initial hit on twin slashes is direct damage, though.

NyassaV

xbobx wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Because combat is 80% heavy attacks now unless you are a nightblade... Great game ZoS

i spam skills regularly and never run out of resources. Why are you guys running out?

You've probably built into sustain or have a full raid group behind you 24/7

techprince

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Hurricane, caltrops, and endless hail actually count as direct damage and do not benefit from thaumaturge.

The easiest way to test what is a dot and what isn't is to go use the ability on a target skeleton. If the damage numbers pop up in orange, its a damage over time. If the numbers are yellow or white, its direct damage.

I believe the initial hits for twin slashes and rapid strikes are direct damage, but the rest is considered damage over time.

My stamsorc runs shrouded daggers, Rearming trap, deadly cloak, endless hail, hurricane, and razor caltrops. Of those only Rearming trap counts as damage over time

Reset CP, check tooltip dmg, put points into thama only and check tooltip dmg. Thats how you should check it.

Sergykid

Lynx7386 wrote: »

The easiest way to test what is a dot and what isn't is to go use the ability on a target skeleton. If the damage numbers pop up in orange, its a damage over time. If the numbers are yellow or white, its direct damage.

it would be nice to have a clear way to know abilities for taking bonus damage as being a dot or repeated direct damage, but this doesn't happen.

flurry has orange damage, but is direct.
jabs have white damage, but benefits from thaumaturge.

not sure about aoe-s like caltrops, endless hail, or liquid lightning. Some of them have orange, some white, but don't notice from which are increased, as dots or repeated bonus damage.

GeorgeBlack

Rapid strikes is a casting over time ability that can also be interupted by accident and disrupt the last hit which deals the real damage.

In addition you can block/dodge/swap/bash better light/heavy atk +1 instant casting ability such as dagger. With rapid strikes you cant with the same ease, since it takes time to finish its function.

You see, if you roll dodge or block before the last hit deals damage, you wont deal damage.
This should apply to all abilities but..... "AC is a feature"

It is sad that DW, a melee weapon uses daggers as its primary spammable, or is being used by magika builds for extra passive stats, rather than active skills.

PlagueSD

With the warden passive "Bond with Nature" spamming cutting dive actually heals you every time it's cast.

Bond with Nature:
When one of your animal companions is killed or unsummoned, you're restored 1260 Health.

For my nightblade, I actually use Bloodthirst morph instead of rapid strikes for the passive healing.

ADarklore

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

...
The easiest way to test what is a dot and what isn't is to go use the ability on a target skeleton. If the damage numbers pop up in orange, its a damage over time. If the numbers are yellow or white, its direct damage.

...

This is the best I-didn't-know-that information I've ever received in this game. Not sure how I missed that in the patch notes.

Its not readily available info.

Tool tips can also tell you but they can be ambiguous at times. Typically if an ability says "deals x damage over y seconds" it is considered damage over time. If the ability says "deals x damage every y seconds for z seconds" its actually not a dot, its just intermittent direct damage.

So endless hail, which days "deals x damage every 0.5 seconds" counts for direct damage, while twin slashes, which says "deals x damage over 9 seconds" counts as damage over time. The initial hit on twin slashes is direct damage, though.

The problem with tool tips is that many say things one way, others another but meaning the same thing. An ability that 'deals x damage every 0.5 seconds for 10/s' is still DAMAGE OVER TIME. I've never once heard anyone else say Hurricane, Caltrops or Endless Hail are direct damage... everyone I've heard says they are a DOT because their damage is dealt 'over time'. Typically if they are boosted by Master at Arms it would be the INITIAL hit, and subsequent damage is counted under Thamaturge.

ryanborror

Sergykid wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

The easiest way to test what is a dot and what isn't is to go use the ability on a target skeleton. If the damage numbers pop up in orange, its a damage over time. If the numbers are yellow or white, its direct damage.

it would be nice to have a clear way to know abilities for taking bonus damage as being a dot or repeated direct damage, but this doesn't happen.

flurry has orange damage, but is direct.
jabs have white damage, but benefits from thaumaturge.

not sure about aoe-s like caltrops, endless hail, or liquid lightning. Some of them have orange, some white, but don't notice from which are increased, as dots or repeated bonus damage.

Orange is for single target dots, which is why it shows the numbers inside the target. White is for everything else, including aoe dots. Yellow signifies a crit

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

techprince wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Hurricane, caltrops, and endless hail actually count as direct damage and do not benefit from thaumaturge.

The easiest way to test what is a dot and what isn't is to go use the ability on a target skeleton. If the damage numbers pop up in orange, its a damage over time. If the numbers are yellow or white, its direct damage.

I believe the initial hits for twin slashes and rapid strikes are direct damage, but the rest is considered damage over time.

My stamsorc runs shrouded daggers, Rearming trap, deadly cloak, endless hail, hurricane, and razor caltrops. Of those only Rearming trap counts as damage over time

Reset CP, check tooltip dmg, put points into thama only and check tooltip dmg. Thats how you should check it.

The way to test is to actually use the skill on mob. Never trust tooltips or the color of the damage numbers that @Lynx7386 is going on about. Do the test three times. Once with 100 CP spent in a node that does not increase damage at all, like blessed. Then 100 into master at arms, then 100 into thaumaturge. This would give you the best results.