The Redguard despise magic and yet every playable class uses magic.

Knowledge

In the lore the Redguard do not allow the use of magic. It is forbidden and they even have tales to frighten people from attempting to use it. What class would they really fit in with the current available options? In my opinion not a single one.

In the old games such as Morrowind we had class choices befitting a Redguard such as Barbarian and Warrior. Why was this title so heavily focused on forcing the use of some magicka abilities? It doesn't make sense or fit into the lore at all.

Morgul667

Knowledge wrote: »

In the lore the Redguard do not allow the use of magic. It is forbidden and they even have tales to frighten people from attempting to use it. What class would they really fit in with the current available options? In my opinion not a single one.

In the old games such as Morrowind we had class choices befitting a Redguard such as Barbarian and Warrior. Why was this title so heavily focused on forcing the use of some magicka abilities? It doesn't make sense or fit into the lore at all.

Good point. Maybe next expansion will help solve this

although I doubt it

Doctordarkspawn

There's myriad Redguard mages in the world. Not everyone subscribes to the narrow-ish beliefs.

Plus, your forgetting that there are two political factions in Hammerfell. The Crowns are absolutely like this, Forebears? Not so much.

TelvanniWizard

We indeed nedd more stamina/warrior oriented classes or skill lines.

Aliyavana

I believe that the redguards tolerate destro magic but maybe @Enodoc can correct me on that... but the absolutely hate necromancy

Ankael07

Redguards dont despise magic entirely. They despise the ''cowardly'' types of magic such as illusions or traps etc.. Its all common to see a redguard mage who uses destruction spells in wars.

Edit: Here's an example of a redguard Archmage in a respected social status

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Redguard:Voa

geonsocal

stam sorc...you can pretty much get away without any magicka on one of those...

SydneyGrey

Some Redguards do magic, though.

When you complete the Mage's Guild quest-line, there are Redguard mages in Eyevea afterward, as well as people from every other race as well.

TheShadowScout

Knowledge wrote: »

The Redguard despise magic and yet every playable class uses magic.

Akktschually...
...that's up to you.

You can make your character without ever touching any of the "magic" skills if you really want to.
Just going with stamina weapon skills and some fighters guild stuff, perhaps a bit from the assault skill line too in time...

Elsterchen

Knowledge wrote: »

In the lore the Redguard do not allow the use of magic. It is forbidden and they even have tales to frighten people from attempting to use it. What class would they really fit in with the current available options? In my opinion not a single one.

In the old games such as Morrowind we had class choices befitting a Redguard such as Barbarian and Warrior. Why was this title so heavily focused on forcing the use of some magicka abilities? It doesn't make sense or fit into the lore at all.

I agree, and during the first month of eso this did bother me alot (playing a redguard, stamplar). Personally I solved this by not digging to deep into sword-singer lore and accepting my spears as a kind of sword-saint ability ... rather then magic.

I know this is a fagile construct, please do not tear it down.

M_Volsung

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

We indeed nedd more stamina/warrior oriented classes or skill lines.

I'd like to see an unarmed combat skill line.

MLGProPlayer

Just because Redguard culture forbids magic use, doesn't mean there are no Redguard mages.

Islam mandates the wearing of the Hijab, yet many Muslim women don't wear one.

People can make their own choices, as can your character in this game.

OlafdieWaldfee

All my Redguards are stam-chars. But I never actively tried to avoid all magicka-based skills. After reading this thread I will try to convert one of my boys to totally-no-magic-at-all. Sounds fun!

Chilly-McFreeze

geonsocal wrote: »

stam sorc...you can pretty much get away without any magicka on one of those...

Now I'm interested in your description of Hurricane. Sure, if you create a really...big...redguard you can argue that it's debris in his orbit but otherwise?

VaranisArano

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

stam sorc...you can pretty much get away without any magicka on one of those...

Now I'm interested in your description of Hurricane. Sure, if you create a really...big...redguard you can argue that it's debris in his orbit but otherwise?

dodgehopper_ESO

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

stam sorc...you can pretty much get away without any magicka on one of those...

Now I'm interested in your description of Hurricane. Sure, if you create a really...big...redguard you can argue that it's debris in his orbit but otherwise?

Just think of it as being really sword saintly.

Vizikul

when you attempt the quest line of the alik'r desert, you also meet these redguard necromancers, although necromancy is despised among the redguards. Clearly not everyone cares for the rules, even the lore suggests that.

badmojo

My first character is a redguard nightblade who hates magick. She uses all stamina abilities, except for when she goes pickpocketing then she dabbles in the shadow ability.

Running a straight stamina character at launch was painful, a fun challenge, especially in PVP, but still very painful. These days its extremely viable to go full stamina.

Thing is, a lot of stamina morphs and abilities arent exactly believeable. Vigor for example, what the hell is happening there? My strength and stamina cause me to burst with yellowish lines healing everyone around me? That seems like magicka in disguise. Same with every stamina morph, and some fighters guild abilities. But, this is an elder scrolls game, so stamina will always take a backseat.

NewBlacksmurf

Just means they won’t be as good however I truly believe this was another game and then TES seems to have been added in very early on.

A lot doesn’t make sense but at this point who would care to be further restricted

Knowledge

From http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Redguard

" The practice of magic has generally been frowned upon dating back to at least the Second Era, and outsiders are not tolerated in many parts of Hammerfell.[2][12][22] Many believe that no "true" Redguard would stoop to using magic, considering it a weakness.[23] Certain schools that teach the Way of the Sword forbid students to use magic and enchanted weapons.[24] By the Third Era, spellcasters were shunned in Hammerfell, believing them to be wicked individuals who steal souls and tamper with minds.[25] Necromancy has always been abhorred in Redguard culture, due to their reverence of the dead. Although being suspicious of magic is regarded as a hallmark of Redguard culture, it was not always so pronounced. In ancient times, Yokudan war-wizards were part of their armies, albeit rare.[26] Sword-singers were said to have forged swords woven with magic and indeed the Shehai itself is believed to be a form of magic.[5] "

geonsocal

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

stam sorc...you can pretty much get away without any magicka on one of those...

Now I'm interested in your description of Hurricane. Sure, if you create a really...big...redguard you can argue that it's debris in his orbit but otherwise?

i get what you're saying...i think i may just be sorely lacking in the area of immersion

plus, I've got stam sorc issues...i tried so hard in utter futility to make my bosmer stam sorc a hybrid...

it bothered me that for a "sorcerer" he really didn't use any magicka skills (other than dark deal)...

yeah, i think varanis may have hit on it with the tasmanian devil reference - hurricane is nothing magical - just some characters kicking up a bunch of dirt...

SilverIce58

Knowledge wrote: »

From http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Redguard

" The practice of magic has generally been frowned upon dating back to at least the Second Era, and outsiders are not tolerated in many parts of Hammerfell.[2][12][22] Many believe that no "true" Redguard would stoop to using magic, considering it a weakness.[23] Certain schools that teach the Way of the Sword forbid students to use magic and enchanted weapons.[24] By the Third Era, spellcasters were shunned in Hammerfell, believing them to be wicked individuals who steal souls and tamper with minds.[25] Necromancy has always been abhorred in Redguard culture, due to their reverence of the dead. Although being suspicious of magic is regarded as a hallmark of Redguard culture, it was not always so pronounced. In ancient times, Yokudan war-wizards were part of their armies, albeit rare.[26] Sword-singers were said to have forged swords woven with magic and indeed the Shehai itself is believed to be a form of magic.[5] "

It's been frowned upon, but that surely does not mean illegal. It also doesn't mean the same as how did you put it? "The redguard despise magic". The Altmer as a community don't deal with Daedra, but does that mean there are no Altmer who have dealings with any of the Princes? No it certainly doesn't. What you're doing is generalizing the Redguard people and just because most of them do not practice/look upon magic favorably, does not mean that every single one does the same.

The Khajiit are all very good at thievery and things that require dexterity/some kind of sleight of hand, but are they all thieves? No.

VaranisArano

Knowledge wrote: »

From http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Redguard

" The practice of magic has generally been frowned upon dating back to at least the Second Era, and outsiders are not tolerated in many parts of Hammerfell.[2][12][22] Many believe that no "true" Redguard would stoop to using magic, considering it a weakness.[23] Certain schools that teach the Way of the Sword forbid students to use magic and enchanted weapons.[24] By the Third Era, spellcasters were shunned in Hammerfell, believing them to be wicked individuals who steal souls and tamper with minds.[25] Necromancy has always been abhorred in Redguard culture, due to their reverence of the dead. Although being suspicious of magic is regarded as a hallmark of Redguard culture, it was not always so pronounced. In ancient times, Yokudan war-wizards were part of their armies, albeit rare.[26] Sword-singers were said to have forged swords woven with magic and indeed the Shehai itself is believed to be a form of magic.[5] "

So I went looking for Redguard Mages in the other TES games.

Morrowind - Redguard characters who were mages or knew more than basic spells
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Domba
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Dulian
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Lesley
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Todwendy
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Bloodmoon:Jeleen
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Ian
Others: Penald, a healer; Gancolm, a healer; Jine, a healer; Cluson, a healer; Margonet, a battlemage; Glannison, a healer; Senyndie, a monk; Shardie, a Crusader; Bodean, a healer; Camas, a healer; Chark, a healer; Daracy, a healer; Dortodd, a healer; Jart, a healer; Torline, a healer; Lanald, a healer; Rinina, a spellsword; Sorian, a battlemage;

Now many of those healers I list are found in bandit caves or smugglers strongholds, so you can make what judgments you will. However, when 24 out of 113 named Redguards in Morrowind are mages or a spellcasting class or know more than basic spells, I'm not sure there's a convincing reason to try to bind Redguard players to magicless play unless said player chooses to roleplay a magic-hating Redguard. Redguards in Morrowind clearly don't flock to spellcasting, but neither do they shun it.

I could go on and look at Oblivion and Skyrim, but I think Morrowind's Redguards are sufficient.

SilverIce58

VaranisArano wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

From http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Redguard

" The practice of magic has generally been frowned upon dating back to at least the Second Era, and outsiders are not tolerated in many parts of Hammerfell.[2][12][22] Many believe that no "true" Redguard would stoop to using magic, considering it a weakness.[23] Certain schools that teach the Way of the Sword forbid students to use magic and enchanted weapons.[24] By the Third Era, spellcasters were shunned in Hammerfell, believing them to be wicked individuals who steal souls and tamper with minds.[25] Necromancy has always been abhorred in Redguard culture, due to their reverence of the dead. Although being suspicious of magic is regarded as a hallmark of Redguard culture, it was not always so pronounced. In ancient times, Yokudan war-wizards were part of their armies, albeit rare.[26] Sword-singers were said to have forged swords woven with magic and indeed the Shehai itself is believed to be a form of magic.[5] "

So I went looking for Redguard Mages in the other TES games.

Morrowind - Redguard characters who were mages or knew more than basic spells
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Domba
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Dulian
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Lesley
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Todwendy
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Bloodmoon:Jeleen
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Ian
Others: Penald, a healer; Gancolm, a healer; Jine, a healer; Cluson, a healer; Margonet, a battlemage; Glannison, a healer; Senyndie, a monk; Shardie, a Crusader; Bodean, a healer; Camas, a healer; Chark, a healer; Daracy, a healer; Dortodd, a healer; Jart, a healer; Torline, a healer; Lanald, a healer; Rinina, a spellsword; Sorian, a battlemage;

Now many of those healers I list are found in bandit caves or smugglers strongholds, so you can make what judgments you will. However, when 24 out of 113 named Redguards in Morrowind are mages or a spellcasting class or know more than basic spells, I'm not sure there's a convincing reason to try to bind Redguard players to magicless play unless said player chooses to roleplay a magic-hating Redguard. Redguards in Morrowind clearly don't flock to spellcasting, but neither do they shun it.

I could go on and look at Oblivion and Skyrim, but I think Morrowind's Redguards are sufficient.

Just in case Morrowind's aren't enough, I did some research into Skyrim's Redguards.
First, the men: 4
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Falion
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Haldyn
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Maramal
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Namasur
Now the women: 5
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Anwen
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Atmah
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Lu'ah_Al-Skaven
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Dragonborn:Niyya
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Yisra

Now, you could argue that there wasn't a large number of Redguards in Skyrim (54), but 3 of those are children, and out of the remaining 51, 9 of them use some type of magic.

CardboardedBox

Theoretically, there really isn't any full true physical class. Even if you go say, stamknight, noxious breath deals poison, which is a branch of physical. Yet you're still blasting a huge green posion flame cloud out of your mouth, which is clearly some form of magic lol

dazee

A "true physical class" is less desireable than a class which can be built effectively as one, or as a magicka class. choices.

notimetocare

Ankael07 wrote: »

Redguards dont despise magic entirely. They despise the ''cowardly'' types of magic such as illusions or traps etc.. Its all common to see a redguard mage who uses destruction spells in wars.

Edit: Here's an example of a redguard Archmage in a respected social status

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Redguard:Voa

Basically this + Necromancy. Likely the most anti-necromancy culture

WakeYourGhost

Idea for the truly hardcore RPer
Make your Redguard, but don't put a single point in Class skills at all. Split it between two Melee skill lines and Fighter's Guild entirely...

Then, take a look at the Lore of the Redguard and notice that their Swordsmanship has a "magic" of it's own, and that they seem to shy away from hurling fireballs or throwing lightning.
Take note that their distaste for Magic only ranges back as far as the latter part of the Second Era, which we are not at yet
Take note that their venerated Sword-Singer skills utilize blades Woven from Magic and that the Shehai was a form of Magic.
Understand that most if not all Redguards only view Magic with suspicion at best, and many do not hold these negative opinions.

Also, keep in mind, it was not until the Third Era that spellcasters were actively Shunned - Mostly by Redguards in more strict parts of Hammerfel.

red_emu

Nerf Sorc?

Vanya

Knowledge wrote: »

In the lore the Redguard do not allow the use of magic. It is forbidden and they even have tales to frighten people from attempting to use it. What class would they really fit in with the current available options? In my opinion not a single one.

In the old games such as Morrowind we had class choices befitting a Redguard such as Barbarian and Warrior. Why was this title so heavily focused on forcing the use of some magicka abilities? It doesn't make sense or fit into the lore at all.

I am very passionate Lore lover But even I must embrace the game and the ability of classes to use certain amount of magic. They must please playerbase. The Lore must not set a "magic barrier" which will prevent substantial amount of players from enjoying the combat on their beloved race which would be the Redguard.

It does make sense strictly observing from lore point of view, but it does not make perfect sense to please the players which ultimately has greater profit. Morrowind was a Single player RPG and very old game as it stand now. The Elder Scrolls Online is an MMO and therefore cannot be heavily restricted.

It will never be changed, I know for experience. The Game company will never take such a risk of such potency. It won't happen. It would upset a lot of Redguard Sorcerers indeed.

If all MMO's sticked to the spirit of the Lore you would have seen a lot less players in general. Personal opinion as always

Kind Regards

Vanya

VaranisArano

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

Idea for the truly hardcore RPer
Make your Redguard, but don't put a single point in Class skills at all. Split it between two Melee skill lines and Fighter's Guild entirely...

Then, take a look at the Lore of the Redguard and notice that their Swordsmanship has a "magic" of it's own, and that they seem to shy away from hurling fireballs or throwing lightning.
Take note that their distaste for Magic only ranges back as far as the latter part of the Second Era, which we are not at yet
Take note that their venerated Sword-Singer skills utilize blades Woven from Magic and that the Shehai was a form of Magic.
Understand that most if not all Redguards only view Magic with suspicion at best, and many do not hold these negative opinions.

Also, keep in mind, it was not until the Third Era that spellcasters were actively Shunned - Mostly by Redguards in more strict parts of Hammerfel.

I love this idea, and I find it very funny that even if you stuck purely to weapon abilities, you'd still have a better DPS rotation than failed sword-singer Sai Sahan.