If you want to progress the game you need to raise item level...

Seraphayel

... and give us an option to increase max item level via crafting etc.

I don't want to farm it all again. But without any gear progression Chapters feel pretty... stagnant.

That's why Zenimax should raise itemlevel by 30 or so with every Chapter. Tedious item grind should be no thing but there should drop ressources with which you can update your "old" gear.

/discuss

redspecter23

I'm not sure you know how the game mechanics actually work. Every mob scales to max level. Increasing max item level and max mob level does nothing but INCREASE grind without any actual progression. You get right back to where you started. Explain to me, specifically, how this is progression please.

Taleof2Cities

No discussion needed ... the answer is ‘no’.

jaws343

redspecter23 wrote: »

I'm not sure you know how the game mechanics actually work. Every mob scales to max level. Increasing max item level and max mob level does nothing but INCREASE grind without any actual progression. You get right back to where you started. Explain to me, specifically, how this is progression please.

Exactly this. This isn't Skyrim where you could outlevel and become god-like. CP160 and CP200 gear will have exactly the same power, just with new fancy numbers. It is meaningless coding and serves no purpose other than to provide a useless moving of the goal post.

Katahdin

If they increase gear caps then they need to increase mob/boss strength.

Having to regrind gear every 6 months is not interesting nor is it compelling gameplay nor is it "progression" when the mobs get releveled too. It's just mindless busy work.

I have 14 characters and plenty to do to keep me busy. I dont need to grind new gear like a hamster on a treadmill and pretend that is fun and interesting. Newsflash: it's not

Seraphayel

redspecter23 wrote: »

I'm not sure you know how the game mechanics actually work. Every mob scales to max level. Increasing max item level and max mob level does nothing but INCREASE grind without any actual progression. You get right back to where you started. Explain to me, specifically, how this is progression please.

Well, why do you need better gear when there's no progression? Why golden gear, why epic runes, why the best sets for meta if nothing changes in the end?

redspecter23

Seraphayel wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

I'm not sure you know how the game mechanics actually work. Every mob scales to max level. Increasing max item level and max mob level does nothing but INCREASE grind without any actual progression. You get right back to where you started. Explain to me, specifically, how this is progression please.

Well, why do you need better gear when there's no progression? Why golden gear, why epic runes, why the best sets for meta if nothing changes in the end?

Gold gear is actually better than purple gear. CP200 gear would be exactly the same as CP160 gear, only you'd have to regrind it. The meta shifts over time and new sets are added, which shakes things up. The game has plenty of progression. It's just that it doesn't need gear level cap increases for progression.

Seraphayel

redspecter23 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

I'm not sure you know how the game mechanics actually work. Every mob scales to max level. Increasing max item level and max mob level does nothing but INCREASE grind without any actual progression. You get right back to where you started. Explain to me, specifically, how this is progression please.

Well, why do you need better gear when there's no progression? Why golden gear, why epic runes, why the best sets for meta if nothing changes in the end?

Gold gear is actually better than purple gear. CP200 gear would be exactly the same as CP160 gear, only you'd have to regrind it. The meta shifts over time and new sets are added, which shakes things up. The game has plenty of progression. It's just that it doesn't need gear level cap increases for progression.

Yes it is. And that's why CP 200 gear will be better as well.

And as I said, I don't want any grind. I want serious progression. And in the most cases new sets don't change anything especially not the meta. Nerfs change the meta. 9/10 sets that were the best 1 or 2 years ago are still the best.

Gythral

Seraphayel wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

I'm not sure you know how the game mechanics actually work. Every mob scales to max level. Increasing max item level and max mob level does nothing but INCREASE grind without any actual progression. You get right back to where you started. Explain to me, specifically, how this is progression please.

Well, why do you need better gear when there's no progression? Why golden gear, why epic runes, why the best sets for meta if nothing changes in the end?

There is progression, but it's not overland PvE where at present you get weaker as you progress from Lvl 1 to CP160

TelvanniWizard

Don´t rise gear level pls. That would be the bottomless pit of my despair...

redspecter23

Seraphayel wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

I'm not sure you know how the game mechanics actually work. Every mob scales to max level. Increasing max item level and max mob level does nothing but INCREASE grind without any actual progression. You get right back to where you started. Explain to me, specifically, how this is progression please.

Well, why do you need better gear when there's no progression? Why golden gear, why epic runes, why the best sets for meta if nothing changes in the end?

Gold gear is actually better than purple gear. CP200 gear would be exactly the same as CP160 gear, only you'd have to regrind it. The meta shifts over time and new sets are added, which shakes things up. The game has plenty of progression. It's just that it doesn't need gear level cap increases for progression.

Yes it is. And that's why CP 200 gear will be better as well.

And as I said, I don't want any grind. I want serious progression. And in the most cases new sets don't change anything especially not the meta. Nerfs change the meta. 9/10 sets that were the best 1 or 2 years ago are still the best.

If you raise the gear to cp200, one of two things will happen. Either ZOS will simply raise all the mobs in the game to cp200 with the gear, meaning you don't actually progress at all. Your power relative to the mobs is exactly the same as it was when you had cp160 gear against cp160 mobs. Or, the mobs will stay at cp160. You will have a false sense of progression but ZOS will be forced to artifically scale up all the pve content to keep it relevant. In either situation, for PvP purposes, you are fighting players with the same level of gear as you so there is no progression there either.

Abysswarrior45

Hell no!

beetleklee

Naw, this is one reason why I don't play WoW. And it will do nothing for progression because mobs will be scaled to the new gear cap, so it will just feel the same.

Eventually though, I think they will need to add another difficulty level after veteran with the CP increases.
I would also like more difficult trials and arenas with good gear worth grinding for. Some more content like DSA and Maelstrom would be nice.

N00BxV1

Please no item level increases... Like others have said: it's unnecessary, will make no difference due to scaling, and will only create an unneeded grind. But if there was no mob scaling, like if mobs remained at their current level and our gear level increased, then that would be ok because we'd actually be gaining more power instead of just trying to get back what we already had.

If you're looking for more progression and gear grind then just create a new character/build. I have 14 characters and 1 empty slot, and I can tell you that leveling and gearing all of them is plenty to do. Also your characters are constantly progressing with the champion system, you just won't see the progress until the next quarter when CP caps are raised.

luen79rwb17_ESO

Oh hell no. ESO and ESO players are so done with vertical progression. It's a thing from the past and no, current system doesn't feel stagnant, it actually feels very vast and ES-like.

There are literally dozens other MMOs with that outdated model.

Tonturri

I'd rather they do their best to break new ground here. Games saying progression = gear treadmill and ultimately pointless level cap raises (resulting in equally pointless extra math, coding, what have you) has been going on too long.

I have high hopes for spellcrafting. With luck, they'll let me invest CP into my abilities instead of boring, flat percentage based increases. I'd gladly invest 60CP or so in order to purchase additional morphs/effects/w/e for abilities I like to use.

WakeYourGhost

I’m not even sure what your thought process is here.
your gear has a Hard Cap for max Base damage and resistance from armor.
Gold for whatever level you are at reaches that cap. A person with Gold lvl 10 armor and weapons would have the Exact same base gear statistics as a CP 160.
If that lvl 10 went up by even a single level, their gear would get a small precent worse.
The same would happen if the new Gear level cap was CP 170.
They would need to get the new level of Gold Gear to have the EXACT SAME statistics they had 1 level or 10 CP ago.

This roughly homogenizes all Levels so they can preform all content at the same time.

Adding a new mechanic to Upgrade old gear to your new level while increasing the gear level cap sounds amazingly like a resource sink and grindfest.

Progressing through the Vet levels for gear already feels pretty pointless, but it’s short lived.
Upping this Gear Level limit would only suddenly make everyone who is above 160 get shafted hard because all their gear would be weaker over night. Forcing them to re-farm, re-craft, or “upgrade level” would just be an agressive time and resource sink.

I must simply ask, with your request for this obvious damaging and tedious change -
Who hurt you?

Juju_beans

This isn't wow..a game of infinite "gear progression" and I am thankful for that.

dovakiin5574

NO!!!! Now if we're talking about newbies increasing their <CP160 gear to CP160 via "upgrade" items then we have a decent discussion opportunity.

ArchMikem

I already burn through gold and mats just replacing gear, or crafting a new set I want to try, or gearing a new character. This would just make me burn through even moar every single time I'd have to update all of my gear on all characters.

rustic_potato

2 scenarios are possible after gear cap increase if it happens.

1) Regrind all the gear for the new level cap and since One Tamriel mob scaling is going to be same all across board.
2) ZOS gives us a way to reduce the regrind like the transmute crystals. It is still going to be a grind and the end result is same as scenario 1.

Those asking for gear cap increase have no idea how ZOS handled it during the veteran rank era. They give the same stats of your current gear to the new max level gear and nerf the *** out of your current gear making it useless.

So those looking for progression in this game are just barking up the wrong tree. It doesnt exist in this game. It will just cause a spike in activity due to the regrind and then it reaches status quo.

PlagueSD

No, no, no, no, and HELL no. This has been discussed MULTIPLE times. Raising the gear cap in a scaled game will be game-breaking. You want to see what would happen? Well, we can "simulate" them raising the gear level to CP200 by equipping CP120 gear and trying to fight mobs.

Let me know how "hard" that is fighting CP160 mobs in CP120 gear.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

A minority of vocal players have been asking for a gear cap increase for a while. In this thread I am going to explain why a gear cap increase will NEVER happen in ESO (unless ZOS abandons One Tamriel).

"But WoW keeps increasing their gear cap, why can't ESO?"

The answer is simple: WoW doesn't have scaling.

When WoW introduces a new zone, dungeon, or raid, the mobs in said instance are also a higher level than the rest of the mobs in the game. Therefore, the player needs to farm new gear in order to complete this new content.

This is how ESO worked before One Tamriel (and is also why ESO had an increasing gear cap then).

As of One Tamriel, when ESO launches new content, the mobs are automatically scaled to the same level as all other mobs in the game. You don't need new gear to complete the new content. However, raising the gear cap would mean that all old content becomes inaccessible to the player until they've farmed gear at the new gear cap. When WoW increase the gear cap, old content is still accessible, it's only new content that requires new gear. This alone makes it impossible to increase the gear cap without breaking the game for everyone.

"But I want to become stronger, and I can only become stronger with higher level gear."

This statement is also incorrect. Gear levels do not make you stronger in ESO because mobs scale to the max gear level. Therefore, if the gear cap were raised to CP180 (for example), all mobs would be scaled to CP180. This means that all your stats would be increased 1:1 with mob stats. Your DPS would be identical at CP180 to what it was at CP160. A gear cap increase in ESO is not a means of progression (which is what some people seem to think).

As you can see, a gear cap increase in ESO accomplishes nothing. It isn't needed to unlock new content, nor does it make you more powerful. The only way it could work is if ZOS abandoned One Tamriel, which I highly doubt they will do.

AcadianPaladin

I hate redoing gear. I don't want to see the gear level raised.

Valkysas154

If i remember right they said it will increase some day and they will tell us when and look into a way to keep are items we got prob some way to level them up.

Ratzkifal

Of course for your idea to make sense we would return to the system where zones have lvls, otherwise nothing really changes. That however is a terrible idea. It ruins the feeling of questing as you are either completely powerless against a bear while you fought giant skeletonlords just a moment ago, or you simply oneshot that epic threat that has been looming over all of tamriel. I hated that my characters just got too strong for a zone at some point and that you can't play with your lowlevel friends because you are too strong is also a major no-go.
Your idea for progression won't feel like progression either. From a max lvl perspective you can either save these upgrade materials for later, which will mean that you don't even have to put work into progressing thus ruining the positive feedback that makes progress fun, or you can't save those up which comes down to having to grind your gear anew after every update, which players hate.

LittlePinkDot

They can just introduce more sets/items with more bonuses. Theres no need to grind more.

PlagueSD

Rift has a wonderful mechanic that lets you "Set" your current level to whatever you want. You on your level 50 character and want the help your level 18 friend? Great. Set your level to 18 and go questing with him. All your gear and skills/stats get scaled down to what a level 18 would be. (just don't forget to set yourself back to 50 before you go raiding...bad things happen when you don't).

starkerealm

Seraphayel wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

I'm not sure you know how the game mechanics actually work. Every mob scales to max level. Increasing max item level and max mob level does nothing but INCREASE grind without any actual progression. You get right back to where you started. Explain to me, specifically, how this is progression please.

Well, why do you need better gear when there's no progression? Why golden gear, why epic runes, why the best sets for meta if nothing changes in the end?

Gold gear is actually better than purple gear. CP200 gear would be exactly the same as CP160 gear, only you'd have to regrind it. The meta shifts over time and new sets are added, which shakes things up. The game has plenty of progression. It's just that it doesn't need gear level cap increases for progression.

Yes it is. And that's why CP 200 gear will be better as well.

No, it wouldn't.

Here's a fun thought to play around with. I have a set of V14 gold gear from a few years ago, back when that was the level cap. The stats for it, before ZOS raised the cap to V16 (which eventually became CR160) are the same as modern CP160 copies of the same set. The only difference is that the enchantment is weaker.

Seriously, if you increase the level cap for gear, all you'd do is reduce the power of all the items in game along the way, and force everyone to get back to grinding all over for no benefit.

ajcorbell

You don't want to grind new gear BUT you want the gear cap to increase.

You been drinking?

Eiagra

No thanks. I already struggle just to reach the new CP cap when it gets raised. I don't need to be farming for new equipment when I finally got sets that I like and fit my playstyle after months of figuring and repeating dungeons for jewelry.

You want progression? How about personal goals. How many achievements have you completed?

Or, to expand upon that question... How much content have you completed? All quests? All delves? All dungeons? All trials? etc. etc. I would want more interesting things to challenge me based on abilities and mechanics, things that'll challenge me as a player. Not "make my number bigger."

I've -not- yet completed all the things, so I've got plenty to do in that regard. If you've hit the "cap" in personal achievements (i.e. things you've done, not the achievements system itself, though that's a helpful tracking tool), well... maybe wait for more content, or find something else to do? Inside the game, outside the game, outside of the house... go analog for a bit.

I understand wanting to get a sense of progression. But I don't believe constantly chasing item level fits this game.

Skoomah

This is a BAD idea. If I have grind everything over again or have to grind in general to get my gear to the right spot, I'm just quitting the game. GRIND = NOT FUN