Life of a serious "fake tank".

Vhozek

True tank perspective:
I played this game for almost 6 months and I got absolutely drained and worn from wanting to play it any longer due to how much of the game you can roll over with just your mouse click and 1 heal. I even ended up actually walking around enemies, light attacking, and taunting them every 10-15 seconds for a very long time as a legitimate strategy to playing this game as a real tank.

I have decided to take it upon myself to increase the difficulty of the game by playing a melee dps with 5 medium 2 heavy, 2H maul, equip Inner Fire, and queue as a tank for dungeons. I have been able to not only solo some of them (normal only so far) but also have a lot more fun from how dynamic a fight becomes. Just make sure to take 1 heal and put some points in HP attribute.

Doctordarkspawn

I mean.

If you got a taunt, go ahed and queue, just dont queue and dont taunt.

DoctorESO

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I mean.

If you got a taunt, go ahed and queue, just dont queue and dont taunt.

And keep the boss still instead of running all over the map.

Doctordarkspawn

DoctorESO wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I mean.

If you got a taunt, go ahed and queue, just dont queue and dont taunt.

And keep the boss still instead of running all over the map.

That too.

But hit those two criteria, dont die, and I dont think anyone cares.

DoctorESO

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I mean.

If you got a taunt, go ahed and queue, just dont queue and dont taunt.

And keep the boss still instead of running all over the map.

That too.

But hit those two criteria, dont die, and I dont think anyone cares.

Yup.

AlienatedGoat

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I mean.

If you got a taunt, go ahed and queue, just dont queue and dont taunt.

And keep the boss still instead of running all over the map.

That too.

But hit those two criteria, dont die, and I dont think anyone cares.

I don't care in normal dungeons, but if someone pulls this in vet its instant kick. Don't care bout their reasons.

Nemesis7884

i don't really care as what you queue or what you do to be honest - the only thing i expect from the tank is to taunt ant maybe not die within seconds and from the healer to have some healing ready...who cares about the rest

AlienatedGoat

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

i don't really care as what you queue or what you do to be honest - the only thing i expect from the tank is to taunt ant maybe not die within seconds and from the healer to have some healing ready...who cares about the rest

If I'm with people trying for achievement clears, the last thing we want is a wannabe tank or wannabe healer. Hardmode isn't that forgiving.

WakeYourGhost

As was stated previously, you have a Taunt - That is 50% of what makes a "fake Tank" a FAKE tank...
Being able to control the Boss and keep them in AoEs, keep them focused, and survive their full force is the other 50%.

If you can manage that, it doesn't matter if you go in naked and spend half your time dancing.

Do - Your - Job
I don't care how you do it, just get it done and I'm cool.

Of course, by those standards, you aren't a Fake Tank - just a "different" or "Alternative" tank.

Runefang

ESO is quite a shock for players who like to tank or heal. No longer are you a highly sought after rare commodity, DPSers prefer to live without you on the whole.

You need to adapt, save your full heavy + S&B for trials and vet DLC dungeons. Wherever you can switch to dps gear and skills.

Kel

Phage wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

i don't really care as what you queue or what you do to be honest - the only thing i expect from the tank is to taunt ant maybe not die within seconds and from the healer to have some healing ready...who cares about the rest

If I'm with people trying for achievement clears, the last thing we want is a wannabe tank or wannabe healer. Hardmode isn't that forgiving.

The better question is, why are you trying to pug achievement clears? Especially on vet?
Good luck with that....

kargen27

Runefang wrote: »

ESO is quite a shock for players who like to tank or heal. No longer are you a highly sought after rare commodity, DPSers prefer to live without you on the whole.

You need to adapt, save your full heavy + S&B for trials and vet DLC dungeons. Wherever you can switch to dps gear and skills.

Yeah right up to that difficult boss where they decide to kick a DPS and ask me to come in and heal for them. I don't mind coming in on the middle of a run for friends and guild mates but when it happens over and over again by the same people I begin to wonder why they don't simply grab me at the start. That aside, with a good group the healer does more buffing than healing.

And for the achievement clears with a pug...sometimes it is fun to give it a go. Running with guild mates where we all know exactly what we are supposed to do and we actually do it can sometimes get a bit boring. Jumping in with a pug and giving it a go can add a bit of welcome diversity to the runs. One random group my healer did around 68% of the damage on all the bosses and I was the only one doing any rezzing. That run was a blast, took us a while but I had fun.

zyk

Non-dlc normal dungeons are probably okay, but you'll probably make people upset with you if fake tank a pug in a vet dungeon group with a medium armor build.

Your positioning will probably be poor in a medium armor build, resulting in a dps loss for the other players -- or you will be a magicka sponge for the healer.

Magicka builds make much better fake tanks IMO -- especially a DK in a DPS build.

It's different in a group of players you know. In a pug, players won't necessarily be experienced with that kind of gameplay.

Kel

kargen27 wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

ESO is quite a shock for players who like to tank or heal. No longer are you a highly sought after rare commodity, DPSers prefer to live without you on the whole.

You need to adapt, save your full heavy + S&B for trials and vet DLC dungeons. Wherever you can switch to dps gear and skills.

Yeah right up to that difficult boss where they decide to kick a DPS and ask me to come in and heal for them. I don't mind coming in on the middle of a run for friends and guild mates but when it happens over and over again by the same people I begin to wonder why they don't simply grab me at the start. That aside, with a good group the healer does more buffing than healing.

And for the achievement clears with a pug...sometimes it is fun to give it a go. Running with guild mates where we all know exactly what we are supposed to do and we actually do it can sometimes get a bit boring. Jumping in with a pug and giving it a go can add a bit of welcome diversity to the runs. One random group my healer did around 68% of the damage on all the bosses and I was the only one doing any rezzing. That run was a blast, took us a while but I had fun.

Thats all well and good, but you know going into it that it's a risk. There's a good chance you are not going to accomplish what you're setting out to do. You already know going in that fake tanks/healers are a huge issue. You can't be upset your achievement run is in jeopardy...you took the risk of a pug. That's all I'm saying.
It's like trying to get that purple gear to gold at 50%. If it fails, you can't get pissed at the game...you took the chance. Exactly the same trying to pug a achievement run. You are taking a chance. Those that join might not know, or even care, about your run. And it's selfish to even think that they should. With or without fake roles.

Silver_Strider

If you can survive without your health ping ponging from 100% to 20% every time the boss light attacks, Idgaf what you do, so long as you do your job. You won't be the most effective tank but it's better than nothing and you do have a taunt so I'm properly not going to have to tank the boss myself on my healer.

kypranb14_ESO

Every character I play gets queued as tank or healer, and i always do my job.

For tanks it puts me in a weird place however, as inner fire isn't the first undaunted ability unlocked, so it takes a few dungeons to unlock it. I usually end up holding the bosses aggro anyway, not sure if it's a DPS thing or not, but it works.

Most recently I have played through on a StamSorc, and a StamBlade, both of which have had full DPS builds, with no problem holding aggro without the taunt. Once I get it unlocked, I use it though.

VaranisArano

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

Every character I play gets queued as tank or healer, and i always do my job.

For tanks it puts me in a weird place however, as inner fire isn't the first undaunted ability unlocked, so it takes a few dungeons to unlock it. I usually end up holding the bosses aggro anyway, not sure if it's a DPS thing or not, but it works.

Most recently I have played through on a StamSorc, and a StamBlade, both of which have had full DPS builds, with no problem holding aggro without the taunt. Once I get it unlocked, I use it though.

Have you tried using Puncture? First skill in one hand and shield, has a taunt.

Icy_Waffles

Its not just the taunt! You need to apply fracture for mag and weapon damage.

In that armor you can get one hit by some bosses.

Thr fact is, no matter how much of a challenge it is for you, you are not being a team player for your group, and hindering their vet dungeon run.

If you are doing this in normal, no wonder its easy.....

If u think good tanking is just light attacking and taunting, you dont understand real tanking:

Controlling the battlefield, grouping ads, debuffing enemies while buffing teammates.

You set the pace. You lock it down.

If you cant do this dont queue as tank. Period.

Anotherone773

DoctorESO wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I mean.

If you got a taunt, go ahed and queue, just dont queue and dont taunt.

And keep the boss still instead of running all over the map.

Why? I like wasting resources on ground based AOEs only for the tank to pull the boss out of it 2 seconds later. . I didnt want to get that full 10 seconds of damage anyway.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I mean.

If you got a taunt, go ahed and queue, just dont queue and dont taunt.

Also interrupt, It makes doing dps far easier if im not constantly having to dodge attacks the tank can interrupt and thus prevent all together.

Quantum_V

Normal dungeons are supposed to be new-player friendly. If you want hard content aim for some acheivments; go try vet Scalecaller and vet Fang Lair on hard mode.

TirantLoBlanch

That can work in normal mode or in easy non dlc dungeons. The fact is : taunt and just survive is a poor tanking. A good tank knows how to lead the pull, where to face the bosses, how to maintain the mobs INSIDE the DD areas and don't let them go out, and ideally can debuff too and even del some decent damage.
If you can't anulate and inmobilize the boss, the fight will be much harder and longer.

A fake tank, like a fake healer or a fake DPS is something that competent players can carry. But to be carried puting yoursel by choice in an unefficient setup to do your job..... is maybe nothing to be proud of...

NewFordOrder

Dual wield with bloodthirst, rapid fire, briarheart and 2 heavy and 20 points in health and I have no problem tanking or dps in normal dungeons.

Waffennacht

You do trials or vet dlcs?

Lexxypwns

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

That can work in normal mode or in easy non dlc dungeons. The fact is : taunt and just survive is a poor tanking. A good tank knows how to lead the pull, where to face the bosses, how to maintain the mobs INSIDE the DD areas and don't let them go out, and ideally can debuff too and even del some decent damage.
If you can't anulate and inmobilize the boss, the fight will be much harder and longer.

A fake tank, like a fake healer or a fake DPS is something that competent players can carry. But to be carried puting yoursel by choice in an unefficient setup to do your job..... is maybe nothing to be proud of...

And a good DPS can drop 35k+++ but there’s not many of them in pugs. Expecting a tank to maintain high level play for his role while that expectation does not exist for pug DPS is laughable. He’s got a taunt, he’s holding agro, who cares?

VaranisArano

You seem to be playing a DPS/Tank. A tank that can DPS, hold aggro, and survive. Congrats, you're a PUGs best friend on easy content.

A fake tank is a DPS with no intention of holding aggro. They do okay in a group that is self-sufficient and make a bunch of problems in groups where some players aren't prepared to pick up the slack.

TirantLoBlanch

Lexxypwns wrote: »

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

That can work in normal mode or in easy non dlc dungeons. The fact is : taunt and just survive is a poor tanking. A good tank knows how to lead the pull, where to face the bosses, how to maintain the mobs INSIDE the DD areas and don't let them go out, and ideally can debuff too and even del some decent damage.
If you can't anulate and inmobilize the boss, the fight will be much harder and longer.

A fake tank, like a fake healer or a fake DPS is something that competent players can carry. But to be carried puting yoursel by choice in an unefficient setup to do your job..... is maybe nothing to be proud of...

And a good DPS can drop 35k+++ but there’s not many of them in pugs. Expecting a tank to maintain high level play for his role while that expectation does not exist for pug DPS is laughable. He’s got a taunt, he’s holding agro, who cares?

A clear example of Reductio ad abdurdum. No one expects 35 k dps in a random normal pug. But its reasonable to expect a decent leveling setup and put some care in use it in a logical order. If someone says " I can dps just because the boss died" and that means 1000 dps its enough, you will say " No, that' s kill a cow using kisses".
No one expect pro playing. But the faketankism is put the team on a disadvantage on purpose. Just because you dont want to make your role better. Not less.
Let' s be serious. In a random plegde i accept the chalenge of ending the dungeon being part of a team , and that means try to get the rythm of the most skilled and veteran, or/ and try to compensate the weak spots of the team if i can.
In a forum, in a discussion about roles you are giving for good an attitude who leads always to the same spot. People jumping from normal to veteran and being kicked again and again. Go to mazzatun or Bloodrootforge in this spirit and tell me what happens.

DoctorESO

Anotherone773 wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I mean.

If you got a taunt, go ahed and queue, just dont queue and dont taunt.

And keep the boss still instead of running all over the map.

Why? I like wasting resources on ground based AOEs only for the tank to pull the boss out of it 2 seconds later. . I didnt want to get that full 10 seconds of damage anyway.

On second thought, I guess I do, too!

DoctorESO

I had a tank who did not slot a taunt until the rest of us asked him to.

Lexxypwns

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

That can work in normal mode or in easy non dlc dungeons. The fact is : taunt and just survive is a poor tanking. A good tank knows how to lead the pull, where to face the bosses, how to maintain the mobs INSIDE the DD areas and don't let them go out, and ideally can debuff too and even del some decent damage.
If you can't anulate and inmobilize the boss, the fight will be much harder and longer.

A fake tank, like a fake healer or a fake DPS is something that competent players can carry. But to be carried puting yoursel by choice in an unefficient setup to do your job..... is maybe nothing to be proud of...

And a good DPS can drop 35k+++ but there’s not many of them in pugs. Expecting a tank to maintain high level play for his role while that expectation does not exist for pug DPS is laughable. He’s got a taunt, he’s holding agro, who cares?

A clear example of Reductio ad abdurdum. No one expects 35 k dps in a random normal pug. But its reasonable to expect a decent leveling setup and put some care in use it in a logical order. If someone says " I can dps just because the boss died" and that means 1000 dps its enough, you will say " No, that' s kill a cow using kisses".
No one expect pro playing. But the faketankism is put the team on a disadvantage on purpose. Just because you dont want to make your role better. Not less.
Let' s be serious. In a random plegde i accept the chalenge of ending the dungeon being part of a team , and that means try to get the rythm of the most skilled and veteran, or/ and try to compensate the weak spots of the team if i can.
In a forum, in a discussion about roles you are giving for good an attitude who leads always to the same spot. People jumping from normal to veteran and being kicked again and again. Go to mazzatun or Bloodrootforge in this spirit and tell me what happens.

Except that you can still drop 20k+DPS and hold agro. That’s much more valuable than positioning mobs when you’re talking about a pug that’s got bad DPS(most of them). In an optimized environment this type of tank is a huge disadvantage, but in pugs with bad DPS then it’s a huge advantage, it allows one good player to carry a higher load. Most vet dungeons are “hard” because of mechanics. But what’s more valuable, surviving mechanics longer or not seeing them multiple times.

I think “fake” healers are ok as well in the spirit of OP. Because again, it’s often more beneficial to put out some damage of your own than spend time buffing someone else’s marginal damage in a pug

TirantLoBlanch

Lexxypwns wrote: »

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

That can work in normal mode or in easy non dlc dungeons. The fact is : taunt and just survive is a poor tanking. A good tank knows how to lead the pull, where to face the bosses, how to maintain the mobs INSIDE the DD areas and don't let them go out, and ideally can debuff too and even del some decent damage.
If you can't anulate and inmobilize the boss, the fight will be much harder and longer.

A fake tank, like a fake healer or a fake DPS is something that competent players can carry. But to be carried puting yoursel by choice in an unefficient setup to do your job..... is maybe nothing to be proud of...

And a good DPS can drop 35k+++ but there’s not many of them in pugs. Expecting a tank to maintain high level play for his role while that expectation does not exist for pug DPS is laughable. He’s got a taunt, he’s holding agro, who cares?

A clear example of Reductio ad abdurdum. No one expects 35 k dps in a random normal pug. But its reasonable to expect a decent leveling setup and put some care in use it in a logical order. If someone says " I can dps just because the boss died" and that means 1000 dps its enough, you will say " No, that' s kill a cow using kisses".
No one expect pro playing. But the faketankism is put the team on a disadvantage on purpose. Just because you dont want to make your role better. Not less.
Let' s be serious. In a random plegde i accept the chalenge of ending the dungeon being part of a team , and that means try to get the rythm of the most skilled and veteran, or/ and try to compensate the weak spots of the team if i can.
In a forum, in a discussion about roles you are giving for good an attitude who leads always to the same spot. People jumping from normal to veteran and being kicked again and again. Go to mazzatun or Bloodrootforge in this spirit and tell me what happens.

Except that you can still drop 20k+DPS and hold agro. That’s much more valuable than positioning mobs when you’re talking about a pug that’s got bad DPS(most of them). In an optimized environment this type of tank is a huge disadvantage, but in pugs with bad DPS then it’s a huge advantage, it allows one good player to carry a higher load. Most vet dungeons are “hard” because of mechanics. But what’s more valuable, surviving mechanics longer or not seeing them multiple times.

I think “fake” healers are ok as well in the spirit of OP. Because again, it’s often more beneficial to put out some damage of your own than spend time buffing someone else’s marginal damage in a pug

So if no one encourages being incompetent and unespecialized, no one will be forced to compensate no one. Quod quid erat demonstrandum.

Lexxypwns

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

That can work in normal mode or in easy non dlc dungeons. The fact is : taunt and just survive is a poor tanking. A good tank knows how to lead the pull, where to face the bosses, how to maintain the mobs INSIDE the DD areas and don't let them go out, and ideally can debuff too and even del some decent damage.
If you can't anulate and inmobilize the boss, the fight will be much harder and longer.

A fake tank, like a fake healer or a fake DPS is something that competent players can carry. But to be carried puting yoursel by choice in an unefficient setup to do your job..... is maybe nothing to be proud of...

And a good DPS can drop 35k+++ but there’s not many of them in pugs. Expecting a tank to maintain high level play for his role while that expectation does not exist for pug DPS is laughable. He’s got a taunt, he’s holding agro, who cares?

A clear example of Reductio ad abdurdum. No one expects 35 k dps in a random normal pug. But its reasonable to expect a decent leveling setup and put some care in use it in a logical order. If someone says " I can dps just because the boss died" and that means 1000 dps its enough, you will say " No, that' s kill a cow using kisses".
No one expect pro playing. But the faketankism is put the team on a disadvantage on purpose. Just because you dont want to make your role better. Not less.
Let' s be serious. In a random plegde i accept the chalenge of ending the dungeon being part of a team , and that means try to get the rythm of the most skilled and veteran, or/ and try to compensate the weak spots of the team if i can.
In a forum, in a discussion about roles you are giving for good an attitude who leads always to the same spot. People jumping from normal to veteran and being kicked again and again. Go to mazzatun or Bloodrootforge in this spirit and tell me what happens.

Except that you can still drop 20k+DPS and hold agro. That’s much more valuable than positioning mobs when you’re talking about a pug that’s got bad DPS(most of them). In an optimized environment this type of tank is a huge disadvantage, but in pugs with bad DPS then it’s a huge advantage, it allows one good player to carry a higher load. Most vet dungeons are “hard” because of mechanics. But what’s more valuable, surviving mechanics longer or not seeing them multiple times.

I think “fake” healers are ok as well in the spirit of OP. Because again, it’s often more beneficial to put out some damage of your own than spend time buffing someone else’s marginal damage in a pug

So if no one encourages being incompetent and unespecialized, no one will be forced to compensate no one. Quod quid erat demonstrandum.

Yes, you’re correct.

However, since this game is marketed as “play as you want” and since you can’t force anyone to play the game your way I think the “fake” tank such as OP is an acceptable option. Because despite your dreams of a gaming utopia, the reality is that most pugs have one or both DPS lacking and it’s totally viable to queue as a tank when you only plan to hold agro and then do DPS because most DPS you encounter are doing an even more inadequate job of their declared role and it can help you get clears you otherwise wouldn’t.