Forward camps

oMrRust

They should be taken back out of the game like they were once removed before..

Lylith

oh god no.

there's enough horse simulator in cyrodiil as it is.

Morgul667

Im happy with them

FloppyTouch

Please don't I love them best thing they added plus open field battles are way more fun now

Feanor

The cooldown should be increased to 10 minutes though.

red_emu

Because you love to ride for 15 minutes to get back into the battle? Like it or not, forward camps are more about QOL thing than strategy. Cyrodiil is big enough with huge empty spaces (how many of us actually explored anything apart from riding in straight line from keep to keep?). Taking the camps away would hinder the flow of gameplay. Personally, if I have to horse ride more than one keep distance to get back into the battle I usually just don't. By the time you get back to the keep, it's flipped.

Camps also have cooldowns and can be easily destroyed. I'd actually buff them a bit in terms of range and placement.

Slick_007

oMrRust wrote: »

They should be taken back out of the game like they were once removed before..

glad to see a well thought argument for a change.

Voxicity

No way. I remember playing before they were reintroduced and it was horrible

zaria

Voxicity wrote: »

No way. I remember playing before they were reintroduced and it was horrible

This, die an place you can not be rezzed by friends and you are out of fight.

Note that this will give fewer players in pvp, especially fewer in pugs, they are also are your main source for AP

RaddlemanNumber7

No don't take them away. I'm crap at PvP and die a lot. I need them. I would like the cool down to be reduced.

GreenhaloX

oMrRust wrote: »

They should be taken back out of the game like they were once removed before..

No, forward camp are useful; however, and "BIG" HOWEVER, the ability to emplace one inside a flagged keep does (and "BIG" DOES) need to go. It is bull-crap. It has to be an exploit. I cannot count how many enemy players we have killed just outside the keep, and they keep flooding back out over and over again. In the yonder top structure of the wall, you can see the enemy camp up, or when you actually able to penetrate inside, they have it up inside the courtyard. Every alliance is doing same. Many times, you can't even break through, no matter how many your group have killed, because the defenders keep rezzing from the camp up inside. The fight then prolongs enough so that the defenders are able to fix the wall or door. I refused to rez inside a flagged keep with the alliance camp. Among other crapshoots going on in PvP, this is among the unfair advantages defenders/enemies are doing.

JamilaRaj

red_emu wrote: »

Because you love to ride for 15 minutes to get back into the battle? Like it or not, forward camps are more about QOL thing than strategy. Cyrodiil is big enough with huge empty spaces (how many of us actually explored anything apart from riding in straight line from keep to keep?). Taking the camps away would hinder the flow of gameplay. Personally, if I have to horse ride more than one keep distance to get back into the battle I usually just don't. By the time you get back to the keep, it's flipped.

And that is exactly how it should be; players fight, those who die are out and those who do not win, either flip a keep or repair.

red_emu wrote: »

Camps also have cooldowns and can be easily destroyed. I'd actually buff them a bit in terms of range and placement.

And also easily replaced. The moment camps come into play, a siege becomes plain war of attrition.

PS: you only ride 15 minutes back into the battle in case you ride from e.g. Rayles to Drakelowe; time to travel from one keep to the next closest is less than 2 minutes.

Shardaxx

I agree. All they do is prolong battles. Getting a keep under siege used to mean something, now it doesn't because there can be a camp inside the castle. Once you get inside the outer wall and burn that camp, another camp can be placed just outside the walls. On the attacking front, you can respawn at a camp and continue the attack even though you all just got wiped out.

I preferred it when getting wiped meant getting wiped. With no camp and nobody to res you, the attack had failed and you had to start over. Yes that means more riding, but it made the game better imho. Camps just mean sieges take twice as long (at least) to be resolved one way or the other.

VaranisArano

GreenhaloX wrote: »

oMrRust wrote: »

They should be taken back out of the game like they were once removed before..

No, forward camp are useful; however, and "BIG" HOWEVER, the ability to emplace one inside a flagged keep does (and "BIG" DOES) need to go. It is bull-crap. It has to be an exploit. I cannot count how many enemy players we have killed just outside the keep, and they keep flooding back out over and over again. In the yonder top structure of the wall, you can see the enemy camp up, or when you actually able to penetrate inside, they have it up inside the courtyard. Every alliance is doing same. Many times, you can't even break through, no matter how many your group have killed, because the defenders keep rezzing from the camp up inside. The fight then prolongs enough so that the defenders are able to fix the wall or door. I refused to rez inside a flagged keep with the alliance camp. Among other crapshoots going on in PvP, this is among the unfair advantages defenders/enemies are doing.

Its not an exploit.

If it was, ZOS would have removed them when they tweaked the upper ledge on some of the inner tri-keeps so you can no longer put a forward camp up there. ZOS didn't know aboit that ability, said it wasn't working as intended, and promptly patched it. That's not remotely the case with putting forward camps on the inner courtyard. Those aren't unfair - the attackers can and do use forward camps for their forces outside just the same as defenders using them inside the walls and all factions can use forward camps inside their keeps. (Unlike the issue with the FC on the upper ledge of the inner keep which only happened on a few of the tri-keeps, though again, that happened with all factions.)

Assuming you killed them after you flagged the keep, so that they rezzed at the camp, they are all on 5 minute timers. If you killed them before you flagged the keep, well, there's your problem, because they all rezzed up at the keep instead.

If you remove the defender's ability to use FCs inside the walls and do not remove attacker's ability to use FCs outside the walls, who has the advantage then? No, removing FCs entirely doesnt help, because they were introduced to solve the problem of getting back to the fight quickly (with a 5 minute penalty after the first use) in the wide open space of Cyrodiil.

Just because you do not like how something is used does not automatically make it an exploit. If you intend for people to take your complaints about forward camps seriously, maybe lets not go calling intended gameplay exploits.

Hurtfan

Keep em, because epic battles have spawned from strategically placed forward camps. And the cool down is fine imo...

Tan9oSuccka

I think they’re fine.

I just wish commrades used them more often.

Reverb

Without camps, players were afraid to engage in combat when defending. This led to almost everyone standing on the walls plinking ineffectively at attackers, because if they pushed thereby and died, they would have to respawn far away, and the keep would be gone by the time they got back. The same applied to attackers, most groups would avoid pushing the map u less they knew they had greater numbers. This exacerbated the issue of faction stacking,and discouraged small or medium group fights.

The players are just now starting to move away from that, feeling more comfortable engaging in actual combat without being in a huge ball group, because they know they will get at least one more chance to fight before the battle is over. Without camps, this progress would be lost. I think that's a terrible idea.

SydneyGrey

Why?
They're easy enough for the enemy to find and destroy.

JamilaRaj

Reverb wrote: »

Without camps, players were afraid to engage in combat when defending. This led to almost everyone standing on the walls plinking ineffectively at attackers, because if they pushed thereby and died, they would have to respawn far away, and the keep would be gone by the time they got back. The same applied to attackers, most groups would avoid pushing the map u less they knew they had greater numbers. This exacerbated the issue of faction stacking,and discouraged small or medium group fights.

The players are just now starting to move away from that, feeling more comfortable engaging in actual combat without being in a huge ball group, because they know they will get at least one more chance to fight before the battle is over. Without camps, this progress would be lost. I think that's a terrible idea.

No. Almost everyone was standing on walls plinking very effectively, because changes to bow skill line in the same patch that removed camps made it possible to land stun, healing debuff and massive damage within 1 second, from stealth and at max range, which was obviously more viable than pushing to deal less damage at point blank and eat unhealable snipes meanwhile. The more they spammed snipe, the less viable pushing was.

As for faction stacking, that is pure BS. Watch this:



See where tents are? Now guess where everyone and his dog is.

TequilaFire

Stop making excuses for losing.

Karivaa

red_emu wrote: »

Because you love to ride for 15 minutes to get back into the battle? Like it or not, forward camps are more about QOL thing than strategy. Cyrodiil is big enough with huge empty spaces (how many of us actually explored anything apart from riding in straight line from keep to keep?). Taking the camps away would hinder the flow of gameplay. Personally, if I have to horse ride more than one keep distance to get back into the battle I usually just don't. By the time you get back to the keep, it's flipped.

Camps also have cooldowns and can be easily destroyed. I'd actually buff them a bit in terms of range and placement.

It is how we used to play!

WakeYourGhost

Honestly, I think they should add the same functionality as a Camp to Resource Nodes - Just with a higher cooldown.
If enemies cap your Keep's Resource, that should be a bit more alarming.

Nihility42

GreenhaloX wrote: »

oMrRust wrote: »

They should be taken back out of the game like they were once removed before..

No, forward camp are useful; however, and "BIG" HOWEVER, the ability to emplace one inside a flagged keep does (and "BIG" DOES) need to go. It is bull-crap. It has to be an exploit. I cannot count how many enemy players we have killed just outside the keep, and they keep flooding back out over and over again. In the yonder top structure of the wall, you can see the enemy camp up, or when you actually able to penetrate inside, they have it up inside the courtyard. Every alliance is doing same. Many times, you can't even break through, no matter how many your group have killed, because the defenders keep rezzing from the camp up inside. The fight then prolongs enough so that the defenders are able to fix the wall or door. I refused to rez inside a flagged keep with the alliance camp. Among other crapshoots going on in PvP, this is among the unfair advantages defenders/enemies are doing.

If you flag a keep and kill every defender, they can rez once then they have a 5 minute timer before they can use the FC again. If that window isn't enough time to break inside, take down the FC and start gaining a foothold, you probably weren't going to take the keep anyway.

Wreuntzylla

Sometimes, when I am stealth running somewhere, I come across a group just putting a camp down. I can't imagine how frustrating it is to lose all that AP just seconds after deploying.

I think the timer should scale with the ratio of enemy to defenders. Maybe 20sec for those on the bad end of a completely lopsided battle and maybe 5min for those on the over-numbered side. PvE keeps are no fun.

DoctorESO

If you remove forward camps, mount speed in Cyrodiil needs to be increased by 300%.

Verbz

Camps are perfectly fine how they are, if anything i would say give the ability to put it back in your bag, maybe im just being tight with my ap here lol, but nothing worse than dropping a camp only to then find its not needed, maybe a time limit on being able to pack it back up perhaps... what do you all, think?

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Verbz wrote: »

Camps are perfectly fine how they are, if anything i would say give the ability to put it back in your bag, maybe im just being tight with my ap here lol, but nothing worse than dropping a camp only to then find its not needed, maybe a time limit on being able to pack it back up perhaps... what do you all, think?

I'd support that. We can pack up everything else, why not the tents?

Silver_Strider

Honestly so sick of Forward Camps.

What's the point in flagging a keep if enemies can still respawn within the keep?
How can you hold out in a keep til reinforcements come if any enemies you kill just respawn a few feet away?

I miss the days before Forward camps were reintroduced.

Beardimus

No thanks, they really add a cool variable element to the game.

The cool down stops constant use. You just need to be tactical

VaranisArano

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Honestly so sick of Forward Camps.

What's the point in flagging a keep if enemies can still respawn within the keep?
How can you hold out in a keep til reinforcements come if any enemies you kill just respawn a few feet away?

I miss the days before Forward camps were reintroduced.

I'm a little embarrassed point this out, but...

You don't flag the keep, the enemy has unlimited rezzes.

You do flag the keep, the enemy has to drop FCs which are limited rezzes on a 5 minute timer.

Yeah, there's no reason to flag a keep, none at all...

TequilaFire

First thing you do after breaching outer wall/door is seek out and destroy enemy camps.
IF your group is not doing that you deserve what you get.