Unreliable breakfree from Total dark

Anethum

Fix it please, it doesn't work very often at all, u push breakfree, but character only doin'g epileptic movements, sometimes u can stay in a bubble until it expire because of that.
Or to get delay 1-3 second after successful breakfree when it still works and reflect direct damage back.
Idk what the error going on, it seems system do not count it as normal hard cc so do not react to client before allowing u to break it.
It feels almost always like your character lifting a little elephant when u trying to make breakfree from this skill.
And if someone do a pressure on while it happening - your stamina left u because of such pseudo-blocking ***.
(!) I'm talking exactly about Total Dark morf of Eclipse.

P.s: Breakfree in general in this patch became more often unreliable. People sit in stun during all it's duration without reasons. It's definitely technical problems

Vapirko

I wouldn’t expect a fix anytime soon, they broke Templars even more with the last patch and there’s been zero acknowledgment of that or the multiple issues in PvP after Monday’s patch.

Minno

There's a worse bug, if you bubble the enemy and they don't break free, you can bubble them again to avoid the cc immunity lol.

No idea if they fixed it, I liberally apply unstable core and don't really care about the cc immunity as much (plus the good enemies are always breaking free anyway so I lose out on the redirect DMG anyway).

Feanor

Minno wrote: »

There's a worse bug, if you bubble the enemy and they don't break free, you can bubble them again to avoid the cc immunity lol.

No idea if they fixed it, I liberally apply unstable core and don't really care about the cc immunity as much (plus the good enemies are always breaking free anyway so I lose out on the redirect DMG anyway).

Sounds like the pimped NPC versions a few patches back...

del9

My problem is that it starts ticking against me before I can see the bubble. It breaks reliably, but my counterplay is always at least a step behind. If I can hear the reflect sound, I think we can get the bubble rendered at that point.

Cinbri

Minno wrote: »

There's a worse bug, if you bubble the enemy and they don't break free, you can bubble them again to avoid the cc immunity lol.

No idea if they fixed it, I liberally apply unstable core and don't really care about the cc immunity as much (plus the good enemies are always breaking free anyway so I lose out on the redirect DMG anyway).

It not bug but legal yet inconsistent mechanic, that hopefully will go away in next update.

Regarding break free TD i didnt noticed clunkiness, on other hand even after all CCs became much less responsive to break free many enemies breaking TD at the same moment of apply, without even proc it atleast once. That looked kinda suspicious how easily enemies breaking eclipse right after break free became so buggy.

Minno

Cinbri wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

There's a worse bug, if you bubble the enemy and they don't break free, you can bubble them again to avoid the cc immunity lol.

No idea if they fixed it, I liberally apply unstable core and don't really care about the cc immunity as much (plus the good enemies are always breaking free anyway so I lose out on the redirect DMG anyway).

It not bug but legal yet inconsistent mechanic, that hopefully will go away in next update.

Regarding break free TD i didnt noticed clunkiness, on other hand even after all CCs became much less responsive to break free many enemies breaking TD at the same moment of apply, without even proc it atleast once. That looked kinda suspicious how easily enemies breaking eclipse right after break free became so buggy.

Basically they should just remove the cc immunity and let Total Dark be the reflect ability it was back when the game first started? Lol

Thogard

Total Dark break free works fine if you understand that it isn’t a stun.

Break free is a skill that counts towards the global cool down. Using break free counts towards your GCD - that’s why you can’t break free and then immediately use another skill as if you weren’t stunnned at all.

When you’re stunned, your global cool down is automatically reset. This is why you can break free immediately. Your next skill usage is 1s after you break free, but the break free can occur instantly after the stun, even if a skill had just fired immediately before the stun. Again - a STUN resets your GCD.

Total dark is not a stun, and total dark does not reset your global cool down.

If you try to break free before your next “availability” to use a skill on the global cool down, you’ll just end up bashing... break free counts as a skill and is therefore not ready until a skill would be.

you need to wait and break free when your GCD is ready

TheFamousMockingbird

Since last patch it seems all CC breaks are horrendously buggy. In pvp and pve getting a stun means 2 seconds of useless CC break attempts, even with a full Stam bar. Thanks for the info about the Total Dark difference.

Thogard

TheFamousMockingbird wrote: »

Since last patch it seems all CC breaks are horrendously buggy. In pvp and pve getting a stun means 2 seconds of useless CC break attempts, even with a full Stam bar. Thanks for the info about the Total Dark difference.

Yeah that’s true... PvP servers have been absolute crap last two days.

Solariken

Thogard wrote: »

Total Dark break free works fine if you understand that it isn’t a stun.

Break free is a skill that counts towards the global cool down. Using break free counts towards your GCD - that’s why you can’t break free and then immediately use another skill as if you weren’t stunnned at all.

When you’re stunned, your global cool down is automatically reset. This is why you can break free immediately. Your next skill usage is 1s after you break free, but the break free can occur instantly after the stun, even if a skill had just fired immediately before the stun. Again - a STUN resets your GCD.

Total dark is not a stun, and total dark does not reset your global cool down.

If you try to break free before your next “availability” to use a skill on the global cool down, you’ll just end up bashing... break free counts as a skill and is therefore not ready until a skill would be.

you need to wait and break free when your GCD is ready

100%

This is why you need to do something non-GCD dependant immediately upon break-free (ie block/roll) instead of mashing a skill right away.

Anethum

Thogard wrote: »

If you try to break free before your next “availability” to use a skill on the global cool down, you’ll just end up bashing... break free counts as a skill and is therefore not ready until a skill would be.

you need to wait and break free when your GCD is ready

It works in such way only in perfect case.
But as usual as I described.
It's not my personal issue vs templars - on my manaplar I applied it and saw that maybe a half of experienced players can't breakfree my TD reliably also, no matter what "GCD status" they have.
I'm really sure that it shouldn't work as now.
Maybe it shouldn't be connected to GCD, idk, something should be changed, it's annoying, bugged

Thogard

diplomatt wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

If you try to break free before your next “availability” to use a skill on the global cool down, you’ll just end up bashing... break free counts as a skill and is therefore not ready until a skill would be.

you need to wait and break free when your GCD is ready

It works in such way only in perfect case.
But as usual as I described.
It's not my personal issue vs templars - on my manaplar I applied it and saw that maybe a half of experienced players can't breakfree my TD reliably also, no matter what "GCD status" they have.
I'm really sure that it shouldn't work as now.
Maybe it shouldn't be connected to GCD, idk, something should be changed, it's annoying, bugged

It is annoying, but it isn't bugged. It is a textbook L2P issue. Many players will instinctively try to heal, buff, or do something while the total dark is up simultaneously with the break free, which isn't how break free works. I have yet to encounter an instance where total dark does not behave as expected in a way that can't be explained by generic server lag (lag that is therefore applied to all break frees)

Cinbri

Minno wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

There's a worse bug, if you bubble the enemy and they don't break free, you can bubble them again to avoid the cc immunity lol.

No idea if they fixed it, I liberally apply unstable core and don't really care about the cc immunity as much (plus the good enemies are always breaking free anyway so I lose out on the redirect DMG anyway).

It not bug but legal yet inconsistent mechanic, that hopefully will go away in next update.

Regarding break free TD i didnt noticed clunkiness, on other hand even after all CCs became much less responsive to break free many enemies breaking TD at the same moment of apply, without even proc it atleast once. That looked kinda suspicious how easily enemies breaking eclipse right after break free became so buggy.

Basically they should just remove the cc immunity and let Total Dark be the reflect ability it was back when the game first started? Lol

If it would be self buff like Scales that reflect it would work but as debuff as reflect it wont work coz their spagetti code cauzing sooooo many bugs with it. I thnk you remember all of those dks you made to fly with you eclipse . And ultimately skill was overhauled later to reflect ONLY projectiles and later to stop being reflect but proc on everything seems coz simple incapability to get rid of bugs with old reflect mechanic. Even dk Scales so buggy.

Anethum

Thogard wrote: »

It is annoying, but it isn't bugged. It is a textbook L2P issue. Many players will instinctively try to heal, buff, or do something while the total dark is up simultaneously with the break free, which isn't how break free works. I have yet to encounter an instance where total dark does not behave as expected in a way that can't be explained by generic server lag (lag that is therefore applied to all break frees)

Everything in eso can be named as "textbook l2p".
l2p with bad design of skills, l2p with disbalance. l2p with bugs. l2p win 1v10+ "because its challenge so give me back aoe cap and don't change anything". l2p with 1 fps. l2p vs Miats at previous patches...
These words are empty from almost everyone.
One my friend is angry on me because I stopped go any trials because absolutly don't wan't to l2p for example 3 centurions-boss in vetHoF, where idk who have normal fps, but not me definitely, or veteran AS +2.
And will not go until Zenimax will optimize it, f ck skins or achievements or "friendship based on someone want from u something".

If we see something is bad designed, working not as intended etc, we should at least try to ask change it

technohic

Feanor wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

There's a worse bug, if you bubble the enemy and they don't break free, you can bubble them again to avoid the cc immunity lol.

No idea if they fixed it, I liberally apply unstable core and don't really care about the cc immunity as much (plus the good enemies are always breaking free anyway so I lose out on the redirect DMG anyway).

Sounds like the pimped NPC versions a few patches back...

NPC version still unbreakable

Joy_Division

Thogard wrote: »

Total Dark break free works fine if you understand that it isn’t a stun.

Break free is a skill that counts towards the global cool down. Using break free counts towards your GCD - that’s why you can’t break free and then immediately use another skill as if you weren’t stunnned at all.

When you’re stunned, your global cool down is automatically reset. This is why you can break free immediately. Your next skill usage is 1s after you break free, but the break free can occur instantly after the stun, even if a skill had just fired immediately before the stun. Again - a STUN resets your GCD.

Total dark is not a stun, and total dark does not reset your global cool down.

If you try to break free before your next “availability” to use a skill on the global cool down, you’ll just end up bashing... break free counts as a skill and is therefore not ready until a skill would be.

you need to wait and break free when your GCD is ready

100% correct.

Minno

Cinbri wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

There's a worse bug, if you bubble the enemy and they don't break free, you can bubble them again to avoid the cc immunity lol.

No idea if they fixed it, I liberally apply unstable core and don't really care about the cc immunity as much (plus the good enemies are always breaking free anyway so I lose out on the redirect DMG anyway).

It not bug but legal yet inconsistent mechanic, that hopefully will go away in next update.

Regarding break free TD i didnt noticed clunkiness, on other hand even after all CCs became much less responsive to break free many enemies breaking TD at the same moment of apply, without even proc it atleast once. That looked kinda suspicious how easily enemies breaking eclipse right after break free became so buggy.

Basically they should just remove the cc immunity and let Total Dark be the reflect ability it was back when the game first started? Lol

If it would be self buff like Scales that reflect it would work but as debuff as reflect it wont work coz their spagetti code cauzing sooooo many bugs with it. I thnk you remember all of those dks you made to fly with you eclipse . And ultimately skill was overhauled later to reflect ONLY projectiles and later to stop being reflect but proc on everything seems coz simple incapability to get rid of bugs with old reflect mechanic. Even dk Scales so buggy.

Lol yea.

At this point, it might be better if Templars actually rolled nightblades in a community wide protest. If cyro/BGs only had wardens/NB running around, you'll see them actually listen to Templars lol.

Even healers; ditch your Templars join the protest!!!

Dredlord

Good they should never have brought it back to being able to break free, only purgeable.

Thogard

diplomatt wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

It is annoying, but it isn't bugged. It is a textbook L2P issue. Many players will instinctively try to heal, buff, or do something while the total dark is up simultaneously with the break free, which isn't how break free works. I have yet to encounter an instance where total dark does not behave as expected in a way that can't be explained by generic server lag (lag that is therefore applied to all break frees)

Everything in eso can be named as "textbook l2p".
l2p with bad design of skills, l2p with disbalance. l2p with bugs. l2p win 1v10+ "because its challenge so give me back aoe cap and don't change anything". l2p with 1 fps. l2p vs Miats at previous patches...
These words are empty from almost everyone.
One my friend is angry on me because I stopped go any trials because absolutly don't wan't to l2p for example 3 centurions-boss in vetHoF, where idk who have normal fps, but not me definitely, or veteran AS +2.
And will not go until Zenimax will optimize it, f ck skins or achievements or "friendship based on someone want from u something".

If we see something is bad designed, working not as intended etc, we should at least try to ask change it

I agree with you in most cases. L2P is thrown around too much.

But this is a learnable game mechanic. You have to time your break free so that it occurs on a GCD, and you can't use another skill or ability within 1s of the breakfree. Hence, textbook L2P issue.

I'm not suggesting that you, specifically, need to learn to play.

I think your qualms have more to do with how lag is treating break free and skills. If your last skill lagged, it might be quite some time before the game thinks your next GCD is available. And then there's that extra special "break free" lag.

I think that due to the tougher L2P mechanics, the current lag in cyrodil makes this far far far more complex than other forms of hard CC.

But I dont think it needs a change. If they did change it, they'd have to fundamentally reinvent the skill. Being able to cast skills inside of the bubble is exactly what triggers the bubble... so if you made it so that it actually reset the GCD, that'd be a huge advantage for the person receiving it (two skills in 1s!) and if you made it so that the person can't cast skills then it would never do any damage to that person.

Waffennacht

The game would be a 1000x better if break free didn't take a GCD but was like block or roll dodge

Thogard

Waffennacht wrote: »

The game would be a 1000x better if break free didn't take a GCD but was like block or roll dodge

Maybe, but then stun would have no effect whatsover other than resource drain... unless you were lagging.

Cinbri

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

The game would be a 1000x better if break free didn't take a GCD but was like block or roll dodge

Maybe, but then stun would have no effect whatsover other than resource drain... unless you were lagging.

Ye and eclipse in particular would be useless as itself coz it not disabling enemy even on miliseconds.

Waffennacht

Cinbri wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

The game would be a 1000x better if break free didn't take a GCD but was like block or roll dodge

Maybe, but then stun would have no effect whatsover other than resource drain... unless you were lagging.

Ye and eclipse in particular would be useless as itself coz it not disabling enemy even on miliseconds.

Personally I'd bring back the old eclipse.

And resource drain should be the more common reason for death rather than an auto lose because your opponent can stun + attack when you cannot respond - because of the CC break

If attacks can be Ani cancelled, CC break shouldn't take a GCD

Minno

Waffennacht wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

The game would be a 1000x better if break free didn't take a GCD but was like block or roll dodge

Maybe, but then stun would have no effect whatsover other than resource drain... unless you were lagging.

Ye and eclipse in particular would be useless as itself coz it not disabling enemy even on miliseconds.

Personally I'd bring back the old eclipse.

And resource drain should be the more common reason for death rather than an auto lose because your opponent can stun + attack when you cannot respond - because of the CC break

If attacks can be Ani cancelled, CC break shouldn't take a GCD

well the problem with eclipse/total dark is the intent for the redesign was to provide templars with a way to protect themselves. The problem is the ability CANT AOE protect the templar, so it fails almost in every situation based on it's intent.

The negatives outweigh the positives:
- huge cost even in light armor/breton (3100-3300)
- dmg still incoming
- limited bar space.
- have to cast on the target about to hit you in order to gain the benefit of swapping from defense to offense.

The ability works better when it forced the bubble. And unstable core worked better when it had spamable burst without CC immunity. You could have replaced valkyn with UC on certain builds before Morrowind, whereas now, its hard to justify moving purfying light off your bar and even more annoying trying to fit a CC ability you know will be dodged/blocked easily.

Joy_Division

Waffennacht wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

The game would be a 1000x better if break free didn't take a GCD but was like block or roll dodge

Maybe, but then stun would have no effect whatsover other than resource drain... unless you were lagging.

Ye and eclipse in particular would be useless as itself coz it not disabling enemy even on miliseconds.

Personally I'd bring back the old eclipse.

And resource drain should be the more common reason for death rather than an auto lose because your opponent can stun + attack when you cannot respond - because of the CC break

If attacks can be Ani cancelled, CC break shouldn't take a GCD

Attacks can be animation cancelled, but they cannot violate the 1 global second cool-down. If you make an attack, you have to wait one second to make another, I don't care how much you animation cancel. Attacks, just like CC break take a GCD.

You would make CCs pretty much useless if they could be instantly CC break and most certainly Eclipse even more useless since it does nothing to impede or interrupt or stop or knock down your character at all. It's just a second. As it is right now with all the mitigation, all the defensive sets, all the cheap defensive ultimates, all the ways people can survive, CCing experienced players is pretty much the only way to kill them without zerging them down.

Stop recklessly smashing your attack skills and you won't have any problems with Eclispe.

Waffennacht

Joy_Division wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

The game would be a 1000x better if break free didn't take a GCD but was like block or roll dodge

Maybe, but then stun would have no effect whatsover other than resource drain... unless you were lagging.

Ye and eclipse in particular would be useless as itself coz it not disabling enemy even on miliseconds.

Personally I'd bring back the old eclipse.

And resource drain should be the more common reason for death rather than an auto lose because your opponent can stun + attack when you cannot respond - because of the CC break

If attacks can be Ani cancelled, CC break shouldn't take a GCD

Attacks can be animation cancelled, but they cannot violate the 1 global second cool-down. If you make an attack, you have to wait one second to make another, I don't care how much you animation cancel. Attacks, just like CC break take a GCD.

You would make CCs pretty much useless if they could be instantly CC break and most certainly Eclipse even more useless since it does nothing to impede or interrupt or stop or knock down your character at all. It's just a second. As it is right now with all the mitigation, all the defensive sets, all the cheap defensive ultimates, all the ways people can survive, CCing experienced players is pretty much the only way to kill them without zerging them down.

Stop recklessly smashing your attack skills and you won't have any problems with Eclispe.

Just saying it fing sucks to die because Leap or Incap stunned you and took half your health, then while you CC break they get another attack.

It would be fine if Incap or Leap didn't deal damage + stun while u can only CC break + nothing.

And I liked the Burst damage Eclipse, where it was like Curse

WillhelmBlack

I've fought a thousand templars abusing this tonight. It's impossible to break free.

@ZOS_GinaBruno please pass this on.

Mr_Nobody

Please even though i liked the old eclipse it was a big pile of bug *****. I still remember eclipsing other templars or getting eclipsed myself during jesus beam. Anyone remember?

Lol ~ Circus PvP

Feanor

It‘s just another result of ZOS having no idea what Templars should actually be able to do. The healing gets stripped down more and more, but the offense is as wonky as ever.