Understanding cc and pvp better

jarydf

I am a mag sorc with very little pvp experience.

I want to understand cc better because most of my deaths in pvp have involved being cced.

Is it true to say that for a mag sorc getting out of cc is about learning when to break free and roll dodge properly and using the cc immunity window to act plus having enough stamina resources to be able to do it regularly and reliably?

It is not about having a particular skill on your bar to do it like unstoppable or immovability pots that only cover 7 seconds in a 45 second cooldown.

Does this sound like I am on the right track or am I missing something?

Lord-Otto

Yup, you're on the right track.


Every class builds around killing with a stun. So you have to consider breaking free every seven seconds with every class, not just sorc in particular.

The skill Immovable is only for specialized builds. Immovability potions are indeed worth it. Tristat potions to regain stamina are also a good choice. Many players, especially magicka players, also opt to wear a hybrid set like Shacklebreaker or Amberplasm.

Dodge roll on magicka builds is used to escape immobilizations and evade multiple dangerous attacks instantly. You can't afford spamming dodge frequently, but using it at the right time goes a long way.

Also, on a mag sorc, remember when your shields expire! Should you get stunned just before they run out, you're typically dead, which might be your described experience. Refresh them early enough!

ak_pvp

^
Also make sure to use your pots intelligently, wait a while after you have been stunned. Saves much in the long run.

Kas

sounds right, but I would add: shacklebreaker and amberplasm are incredible sets for a slightly more forgiving playstyle and, in no-cp, very good for almost any playstyle. as a rule of tumb, you want to break out of nearly every hard cc (stun, fear, eclipse, etc) and you want enough sustain (stamina reg vs break free cost reduction from CP) to do so every 6s (because that's the imunity window).

on top of that, you sometimes also want to dodge to get out of roots and dodge/block key attacks like an assassins will proc. it is easy to dodge too often and very dangerius to block for several seconds quickly bruning through your stam and thus ending up with missing stamina. therefore you really got to develop a habit of calmly casting shields while under pressure and not falling in the trap of panic blocking.

that said, having more stamina reg helps a lot to mitigate any harm, done by imperfect play and thus the sets i mentioned earlier. once you're perfecting your playstyle, you can also choose to build harder on sustain and squeeze out some extra damage

MrDenimChicken

I'm wondering which CC's give the 7 second CC immunity, and do the CC's overlap?

For example, I notice my immobilization and snare has a different CC "type" than my destructive reach knock back...is this true? Or are they the same, and does using one give them a CC immunity that makes using the other not work anymore?

Lord-Otto

You differentiate between "soft" and "hard" CCs.

Soft ones hinder your movement. Roots or snares fall into this category. If you roll out of a root, you get two seconds of ROOT immunity.

Hard ones completely deny you control over your character. Stuns and knockbacks and suchlike fall into this category. If you break them, or they expire, you get seven seconds of HARD CC immunity.

Roots and snares can stack. Snares can stack on themselves. Hard CCs shouldn't be able to stack, but very rarely lag and bugs screw with this.

Rohaus

It’s amazing how fast 7 seconds goes by...

fred4

I prefer to have at least 800 stam regen on a mag toon (I play in CP). Shacklebreaker, Amber Plasm, or Blood Spawn more or less gets you there. If not, I have also used a stam regen jewelry glyph in some builds.

A decent stamina pool also helps. 12K is about the minimum I like to use. There are several ways to go about this. I prefer to use all prismatic enchants on armor together with single-stat / regen food, e.g. Ghastly Eye Bowl. If you want more health, by all means use Witchmother's Potent Brew, but I prefer a minimum of health (20K to 21K), a bigger magicka pool for bigger shields, and the extra regen from Ghastly Eye Bowl. This approach typically nets you the ability to use a damage jewelry glyph, where you might otherwise have used a magicka recovery glyph, so it's more damage and bigger shields at the expense of health.

A friend of mine builds with Seducer and uses food instead of the single stat / regen drink. He's had good results with that approach, so my approach is not the only one. I would say that, in any case, building with all prismatic enchants is the way to go, as this gives you free stats you cannot otherwise get. This is why I like the single stat / regen drink, as Witchmother's may give you more health than you need. If necessary, use your attributes to balance health where you want it, don't automatically go 64 into magicka, like so many people do.

I historically - and still - use Immovability / Detect / Magicka potions, even though the immovability time was nerfed. My 800 stam regen recommendation is basically designed with those potions in mind. You can supplement this with poisons, specifically two types. There is a stamina cost increase / stamina return poison. The other one is the Escapist's poison, which grants you 4.4 seconds of hard CC immunity, when it fires. This can be augmented to 8.4 seconds by using the Assassin's Guile set, although I'm not sure that's a good fit for a sorc. Another option is to use a weapon enchant that returns stamina.

I have seen sorcs who would calmly sit through a CC, and could take the damage. I don't play sorc. In my experience with magblade and magden, this cannot be done, so I assume the sorc was shield stacking Hardened Ward and Dampen / Harness Magicka. He may also have been wearing Reactive Armor.

While sets like Reactive Armor are good for dealing with CC, the longer you play this game, the more you will look for damage. For light armor magicka builds, and sorcs in particular, I think stacking magicka is the way to go. You don't necessarily need to take it this far, but as an example consider 5x Shacklebreaker + 5x Necropotence + 1x Domihaus. With the right race, enchants, and skills, that combination will net you about 16K stamina and 50K+ magicka, resulting in large shields, high damage, and a decent stamina pool. Of course this involves running a pet.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Lots of good info here, I will add my two cents.

As you can probably tell, even on a magic Sorc, stamina is REALLY important. Many have suggested tri stat glyphs. With Sorc, I am a firm believer of infused big pieces with tri stats and impen small pieces with magic glyphs. Impen is worthless when you have a shield, so you don’t need as much as other classes, but you still have ant some when you shields drop.

I am also, like most sorcs, a big fan of shacklebreaker as it gives both Stam and Stamina recovery. A very common way to open world build is to run shackle, 1 domihaus, and a back bar set like lich or wizards riposte. This will get you stamina up into the 15-16k range which is really nice.

Few things about Stam as it relates to magic Sorc. Like any class, you need to be able to breakfree about every 7 seconds and also sprinkle in the occasional dodgeroll for snares.

That said, probably the most important thing to realize is that if you block with your shields up, your Stam will drain but you take the same amount of shield damage. Blocking does not mitigate damage against a shield. You should really only block on a Sorc to prevent a knock back or if your shields are actually down. Blockcasting shields is a great way to burn right through your Stam.

Elusive mist (vamp skill) is a great way for any magic class to remove soft CCs (stamina classes use forward momentum for this). Most sorcs will opt for streak as a movement tool, but in group play, mist is often a better option.

Dark conversion converts Stam to magic. This is is extremely useful. You don’t need a particularly high Stam pool, but you may find a little extra Stam regen is more beneficial than a little extra magic recovery. I know several sorcs that actually run the serpent mundus, because you can basically cast dark conversion infinitely if needed.

Waffennacht

You will be stunned at every available moment, if your build cannot gain enough resources to deal with this, then you must change your build.

Your build must use massive burst damage to kill (as a sorc) in today's meta GOOD LUCK

Lord-Otto

Waffennacht wrote: »

You will be stunned at every available moment, if your build cannot gain enough resources to deal with this, then you must change your build.

Your build must use massive burst damage to kill (as a sorc) in today's meta GOOD LUCK

Did someone say "nerf sorc"?
|.o)

bardx86

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

You will be stunned at every available moment, if your build cannot gain enough resources to deal with this, then you must change your build.

Your build must use massive burst damage to kill (as a sorc) in today's meta GOOD LUCK

Did someone say "nerf sorc"?
|.o)

bah, lol

f047ys3v3n

jarydf wrote: »

I am a mag sorc with very little pvp experience.

I want to understand cc better because most of my deaths in pvp have involved being cced.

Is it true to say that for a mag sorc getting out of cc is about learning when to break free and roll dodge properly and using the cc immunity window to act plus having enough stamina resources to be able to do it regularly and reliably?

It is not about having a particular skill on your bar to do it like unstoppable or immovability pots that only cover 7 seconds in a 45 second cooldown.

Does this sound like I am on the right track or am I missing something?

You are in PVP, you are a mag toon, therefore you are CC'd. Well, not CC'd always but certainly always snared. On a sorc at least you can streak (which will CC them if you go through them) when snared.

To be fair, stam toons do get CC'd it is just very affordable for them to get out and they do not really get snared as they have a skill that frees them and grants temporary immunity.

Also, pretty much all deaths in PVP involve being CC'd, for everybody. ZOS likes CC's and the counters, whether by pot or by skill, are very few. It is not very good design if you ask me. Games that specialize in, and are much better at, PVP (fps games) are not full of CC's and stuns because it is lazy design, invites macro combinations, and people don't really like it. It is a general MMO issue but ZOS makes is a specialty here.

I should also note that CC immunity has never worked right as you get a refreshed CC effect and duration if hit with another while the first ones animation is still playing. This often leads to permanent CC death. I had a vMA run once where I grabbed the heal and shield sigil and then was continuously CC'd for a full 20 seconds until they expired and I died. I would love to have had that comedy show on tape.

Waffennacht

Plus CC is buggy af right now