Aggro reset mechanic is weird

ZeroXFF · February 2018

Does anyone else find it weird that while in a delve or anywhere else where you can't avoid mobs, you gather them in a huge crowd chasing you, and the moment you reach your destination and get ready for combat, put down your AoE aaaaaaaand....... they all run away, the very moment they would have been the strongest with all of their comrades helping them to kill you. Instead they leave just a few of their friends to fend for themselves against a mighty warrior who has taken on Molag Bal pretty much by himself.

In my opinion the logic should be reversed. If you're not attacking mobs, they reset early (however far this "early" is), and if you do, they follow you to the hell and back just to take revenge.

ADarklore · February 2018

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Does anyone else find it weird that while in a delve or anywhere else where you can't avoid mobs, you gather them in a huge crowd chasing you, and the moment you reach your destination and get ready for combat, put down your AoE aaaaaaaand....... they all run away, the very moment they would have been the strongest with all of their comrades helping them to kill you. Instead they leave just a few of their friends to fend for themselves against a mighty warrior who has taken on Molag Bal pretty much by himself.

In my opinion the logic should be reversed. If you're not attacking mobs, they reset early (however far this "early" is), and if you do, they follow you to the hell and back just to take revenge.

The thing is, they have a specific distance they can move from their original location before they reset... and they reset as soon as they take damage once they've moved beyond their limit... or also if you move significantly far enough away from them they also reset.

Bpryr_125 · February 2018

Imo.. I'm glad a mob resets after a certain distance traveled..

In days days past.. "EQ Days.. old EQ"..

YOU would often hear someone over Zone Chat "" TRAIN TO ZONE!!! GET OUT THE WAY!!.,

Entertaining Times & alot of great memories made:))

Same with Raid pulls, etc

You climbed halfway up a hill if you went afk to avoid such.. haha

God,, the memories of EQ, Guilds having to rescue other guilds cause they wiped in a raid. Being up til 6am to rescue raids so no one would loose there gear.

Long live the Firiona Vie server /salute
~Pail Quine~ of WOD

FV old rules..

No character transfers. Everyone was starting over, butt naked, at lvl 1.
1 character per account.
No shared "Common Tongue" language. Races could only speak their own racial language(s). Language skill improvements (achieved by listening to someone else's chat) had a rate cap, and only improved via /group and /say chat channels.
Characters had alignments (good, neutral, evil, etc.), which outright prevented certain races, religions, and professions from grouping with each other.
Zone-wide chat channels didn't exist in most of the world: /auction was restricted to cities, /shout had a limited radius, the /ooc channel was removed entirely.
You could only buff characters within a certain level range of your own. (Actually I think it was relative to the level of the spell.) So powerleveling wasn't near as effective or straight-forward as usual.
Mobs that were too low lvl to grant XP would not drop any items flagged as MAGIC, LORE (one per character), or NODROP (called BOP nowadays). This was known as the Trivial Loot Code (TLC).
There were almost no NODROP (BOP) items, outside of epic weapons and some quest items, so most things were tradeable. This offset the TLC to a degree.

If you didn't recover your corpse, you lost your gear

VaranisArano · February 2018

The aggro mechanics prevent you from dragging too many enemies over other players (probably really annoying for anyone not prepared) or from dragging all the enemies out of a questing area.

One place where enemies will chase you down in group dungeons, which can be great fun when you pull all the enemies from a section of the dungeon to a choke point and then burn them down with AOEs and also prevents you from skipping mandatory bosses.

Also, in the Imperial City, the district bosses don't have a reset leash (or if they do, its longer than I managed to run

) so if you aggro them, be prepared to fight.

Nyghthowler · February 2018

Bpryr_125 wrote: »

Imo.. I'm glad a mob resets after a certain distance traveled..

In days days past.. "EQ Days.. old EQ"..

YOU would often hear someone over Zone Chat "" TRAIN TO ZONE!!! GET OUT THE WAY!!.,

Entertaining Times & alot of great memories made:))

Same with Raid pulls, etc

You climbed halfway up a hill if you went afk to avoid such.. haha

God,, the memories of EQ, Guilds having to rescue other guilds cause they wiped in a raid. Being up til 6am to rescue raids so no one would loose there gear.

Long live the Firiona Vie server /salute
~Pail Quine~ of WOD

FV old rules..

No character transfers. Everyone was starting over, butt naked, at lvl 1.
1 character per account.
No shared "Common Tongue" language. Races could only speak their own racial language(s). Language skill improvements (achieved by listening to someone else's chat) had a rate cap, and only improved via /group and /say chat channels.
Characters had alignments (good, neutral, evil, etc.), which outright prevented certain races, religions, and professions from grouping with each other.
Zone-wide chat channels didn't exist in most of the world: /auction was restricted to cities, /shout had a limited radius, the /ooc channel was removed entirely.
You could only buff characters within a certain level range of your own. (Actually I think it was relative to the level of the spell.) So powerleveling wasn't near as effective or straight-forward as usual.
Mobs that were too low lvl to grant XP would not drop any items flagged as MAGIC, LORE (one per character), or NODROP (called BOP nowadays). This was known as the Trivial Loot Code (TLC).
There were almost no NODROP (BOP) items, outside of epic weapons and some quest items, so most things were tradeable. This offset the TLC to a degree.

If you didn't recover your corpse, you lost your gear

LOL! Oh, the memories....
The epic size trains from the bottom level of Befallen, crushing everyone in its path.

ZeroXFF · February 2018

I'm not against aggro resetting at a certain distance. My issue is that they reset at a shorter distance when attacked rather than at a greater distance. They should follow people longer who are actually fighting them instead of those just running away.

It's extremely annoying when I'm trying to kill a mob, but move just 3 steps further away and he resets while at 10% HP. The reset distance when attacking should be the same or greater than the reset distance when not attacking. The way it works now makes no logical sense to me. Especially when I'm leveling with a tank, and I'd rather pull more mobs to AoE them down since my single target DPS is pretty much nonexistent.

LadyLethalla · February 2018

One thing I find annoying is the ones that chase you so far and still fight, until you hit them once. Then they run off.

ZeroXFF · February 2018

LadyLethalla wrote: »

One thing I find annoying is the ones that chase you so far and still fight, until you hit them once. Then they run off.

Exactly. That's the stupid part about the way it currently works.

VaranisArano · February 2018

If you are having issues with farming mobs resetting before you can gather enough of them, can I suggest you try farming public dungeons instead? The mobs are usually twice the size of overland mob packs and there's lots of them.

ZeroXFF · February 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

If you are having issues with farming mobs resetting before you can gather enough of them, can I suggest you try farming public dungeons instead? The mobs are usually twice the size of overland mob packs and there's lots of them.

I'm not concerned about farming per se. That farming them becomes harder is one of the consequences of that. But it's always hard to say whether I should engage them, or just do a light attack to chase them away. If the aggro range for attacked and not attacked mobs was reversed, I would always know that the mobs chasing me will actually try to kill me instead of chickening out the moment I look at them.

rfennell_ESO · February 2018

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Does anyone else find it weird that while in a delve or anywhere else where you can't avoid mobs, you gather them in a huge crowd chasing you, and the moment you reach your destination and get ready for combat, put down your AoE aaaaaaaand....... they all run away, the very moment they would have been the strongest with all of their comrades helping them to kill you. Instead they leave just a few of their friends to fend for themselves against a mighty warrior who has taken on Molag Bal pretty much by himself.

In my opinion the logic should be reversed. If you're not attacking mobs, they reset early (however far this "early" is), and if you do, they follow you to the hell and back just to take revenge.

It's called tethering.

Back in the days of Everquest (as previously mentioned) you could get an entire zone "trained" at you (split paw). Being that Everquest also had a class(es) that could use an ability called "feign death"(monk class), well unscrupulous players could gather up aggro and build a huge train and then hit the ground at your location and bring them all on you. Mobs also transferred aggro to one another and remembered you on their aggro list until they were killed.

One of the original raid zones in Everquest was the plane of fear and it was a pathing nightmare that meant that every pull was going to be a crapshoot in the direction they took to come to you and you would get trains of raid level mobs. Even worse, zones were not instanced and when competing guilds were trying to clear they would have train wars where monks would attempt to bring a monster train on your raid to wipe you. Now keep in mind that in original EQ "wiping" meant your corpse had your gear on it and you would have to respawn at your bind location "naked". Then you could try and get to your corpse to loot it and put your gear back on (all while the other guild that wiped you kept training you). P.S. your bind location wasn't going to be near your corpse, it could be a 30+ minute trek through the wilderness naked just to get back to the location dangerous enough to kill you in gear.

Hence mobs in all games moving forward have been tethered to their aggro location.

In truth, it was sort of fun... but not always.

idk · February 2018

ADarklore wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Does anyone else find it weird that while in a delve or anywhere else where you can't avoid mobs, you gather them in a huge crowd chasing you, and the moment you reach your destination and get ready for combat, put down your AoE aaaaaaaand....... they all run away, the very moment they would have been the strongest with all of their comrades helping them to kill you. Instead they leave just a few of their friends to fend for themselves against a mighty warrior who has taken on Molag Bal pretty much by himself.

In my opinion the logic should be reversed. If you're not attacking mobs, they reset early (however far this "early" is), and if you do, they follow you to the hell and back just to take revenge.

The thing is, they have a specific distance they can move from their original location before they reset... and they reset as soon as they take damage once they've moved beyond their limit... or also if you move significantly far enough away from them they also reset.

and it is fairly common in MMOs that NPCs have the set ranged from their area they will fight. This it not an ESO specific design.

Merlin13KAGL · February 2018

The timed tether is fine. The 100% damage immunity and full stat restoration is the BS part.

VaranisArano · February 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

The timed tether is fine. The 100% damage immunity and full stat restoration is the BS part.

Why? Otherwise you could pull them until they turn tail and run away, then shoot them in the back. They are returning to their original position, once there, you can fight them again but not in the transition period.

zaria · February 2018

LadyLethalla wrote: »

One thing I find annoying is the ones that chase you so far and still fight, until you hit them once. Then they run off.

This is the annoying part reset if pulled to far makes sense.

The annoying part is that they follow you far longer, do one attack and run away.
ground based aoe like wall or elements or hail is nice here, you can cast it while running and the enemy reach the area they take damage and tend to turn around.
You want to lay it down before you stop.

Cuthceol · February 2018

try playing a bow build, amazing how many mobs you'll encounter that have a leash shorter than bow max range

A_G_G_R_O · February 2018

I never reset

ADarklore · February 2018

What about the PET enemy reset? I've had this numerous times where you control target a pet to go after a group of three enemies, then you kill one of the enemies and the other two RESET back to full health and position. This is an issue that I don't get and becomes very annoying when using a pet build. I might be wrong, but it seems to me I have found that it typically only happens when you manually control target the pet, otherwise if you just let the pet do its own thing, it doesn't happen.

Merlin13KAGL · February 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

The timed tether is fine. The 100% damage immunity and full stat restoration is the BS part.

Why? Otherwise you could pull them until they turn tail and run away, then shoot them in the back. They are returning to their original position, once there, you can fight them again but not in the transition period.

I'm all for advanced AI behavior in mobs. Hiding, disengaging at various levels, fight to the death are all viable options in that regard.

They gift they receive in that if they can't engage you (line of sight, elevation, etc) then you are not allowed to engage them, is bull.

They could still have a roaming limit, the further they get from that spawn point, the higher the likelihood they would disengage the fight and return. They shouldn't get the option of having one tick of health left and suddenly be back to full with full immunity. They're also not likely to have you at 1% remaining health and suddenly go "never mind, let's let him live."

You can't do that, why should they?

You determine your behavior based on a number of factors: Your health/stats, how outnumbered you are, the relative strength of the enemy you fight. If you commit to it and win, great. If you commit to it and die, also reasonable. You are deciding, every step along the way, whether or not to stay engaged in the fight, or in some cases, if the fight is even worth your time?

In either case, you don't get to tag 'base' and suddenly get all cooldowns removed with all stats back to full.

I'd rather see the AI use some of the same factors to determine if/when to disengage, but have the same potential consequences in the process. You engage in battle, you should take damage until you reset combat, same as the players have to.

VaranisArano · February 2018

Hey, I'm all for smart NPC AI, but I also realize I'm not going to see a massive AI overhaul in this game. Interesting idea though.

Merlin13KAGL · February 2018

I don't even expect smart (except possible in trials settings), but smarter would be a nice change.

red_emu · February 2018

They discovered a secret to immortality. Are you dying from horrible wounds? Are you about to collapse and bleed to death? Are you on fire? Just take a walk 50 steps in any direction and you will feel anew!

AhPook_Is_Here · February 2018

When you see them chasing you on your screen that's just your client. when you hit them it sends a message to the server and the server sees they are outside of the range they can engage in combat from their spawn point, so they become immune and run back on your screen to where they originate. Make a mental Venn diagram of the spawn rings and pull all the mobs to the point of highest inclusion.

Twenty0zTsunami · February 2018

Bpryr_125 wrote: »

Imo.. I'm glad a mob resets after a certain distance traveled..

In days days past.. "EQ Days.. old EQ"..

YOU would often hear someone over Zone Chat "" TRAIN TO ZONE!!! GET OUT THE WAY!!.,

Entertaining Times & alot of great memories made:))

Same with Raid pulls, etc

You climbed halfway up a hill if you went afk to avoid such.. haha

God,, the memories of EQ, Guilds having to rescue other guilds cause they wiped in a raid. Being up til 6am to rescue raids so no one would loose there gear.

Long live the Firiona Vie server /salute
~Pail Quine~ of WOD

FV old rules..

No character transfers. Everyone was starting over, butt naked, at lvl 1.
1 character per account.
No shared "Common Tongue" language. Races could only speak their own racial language(s). Language skill improvements (achieved by listening to someone else's chat) had a rate cap, and only improved via /group and /say chat channels.
Characters had alignments (good, neutral, evil, etc.), which outright prevented certain races, religions, and professions from grouping with each other.
Zone-wide chat channels didn't exist in most of the world: /auction was restricted to cities, /shout had a limited radius, the /ooc channel was removed entirely.
You could only buff characters within a certain level range of your own. (Actually I think it was relative to the level of the spell.) So powerleveling wasn't near as effective or straight-forward as usual.
Mobs that were too low lvl to grant XP would not drop any items flagged as MAGIC, LORE (one per character), or NODROP (called BOP nowadays). This was known as the Trivial Loot Code (TLC).
There were almost no NODROP (BOP) items, outside of epic weapons and some quest items, so most things were tradeable. This offset the TLC to a degree.

If you didn't recover your corpse, you lost your gear

TTZ!