Alliance Points have been getting more use, but it's not enough

Recremen

Hi everyone, just wanted to take a moment to talk about Alliance Points, that much-maligned currency that PvP players get stuck with instead of gold. ZOS has done a great job trying to add more useful things to buy with it, specifically as a response to its uselessness as a currency, so let's take stock of that real quick. We have two motifs you can get, we have the Cyrodiil town gamble bag vendors, we have a few furnishings, and we have The Golden. These have been great moves... but also not nearly enough. Despite these additions, the player exchange rate continues to fall precipitously away from the ZOS modern exchange rate of 2 AP :1 Gold (as seen on The Golden), and even far away from the ZOS old exchange rate of 4 AP : 1 Gold (as seen on the siege merchants). This is because the supply of AP still far outstrips the demand for it.

So what is to be done? Why do PvP players still get stuck with the short end of the stick when it comes to buying things they like? Why do we have to jump through the hoops of selling AP at ever-decreasing rates in order to participate in the abundant gold sinks found throughout the world? To me, the solution seems obvious : take some of the biggest-hitting gold sinks and double them up with AP sink options, at the modern ZOS exchange rate of 2 AP :1 Gold. In particular, the following would be excellent targets for this treatment.

• The Luxury Vendor
• Achievement Furnishing Vendors
• The new and exciting Outfit System

These are the real heavy hitters and best of all won't negatively affect the existing in-game economy. The luxury and achievement vendors already sell for gold, so it's not like you can try to use your AP to flip a better price, and the Outfit system gives you no tangible good to trade. These would be pure AP sinks to get the bulk out of the economy, and should over time even help to stabilize the player exchange rate for AP:Gold at a point closer to ZOS's model. Further, it would do nothing to disrupt cash shop sales. Both the luxury and achievement vendor items are exclusive to those vendors and not available on the cash shop, and while there are certainly outfit change tokens on the cash shop the people who are already buying them are not going to suddenly stop just because they have Second Currency to spend at the outfit station. That's not how that kind of consumer does things. Similarly, the people who aren't currently buying them aren't going to suddenly start buying them at any time, so giving them another in-game option for purchasing will just help the system function as another currency sink.

Thoughts? Comments? Inglorious slander? Additional ideas? Speak out!!

Mazbt

I agree. Those things should give an AP cost as an option.

DeadlyRecluse

I knew this was going to include a suggestion to let us use AP in the outfit system...

...and I like it.

Ch4mpTW

I’m all for allowing AP to be used with more things, so long as the cost required of AP is relatively high. People sit there and farm hundreds of thousands of AP day after day, and often times than not with little to no real effort being applied.

Recremen

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I’m all for allowing AP to be used with more things, so long as the cost required of AP is relatively high. People sit there and farm hundreds of thousands of AP day after day, and often times than not with little to no real effort being applied.

I'm gonna put this down as "Inglorious Slander", thanks for ticking that box bright and early!

Seriously though, nobody is getting hundreds of thousands of AP day after day "with little to no real effort being applied". That's not a real thing. That's not a possible thing. Even the good groups aren't making 6-figure AP an hour without a true alignment of the planets feeding them a steady stream of inexperienced players right as their AP value refreshes. We have to earn our AP and it's hard-won.

I'm actually quite surprised you aren't applying the same metric for gold value. Aren't people always saying how gold is easy to get in this game? Just go farm some mats or whatever, as I hear it. But you aren't saying that the gold cost of these goods should be increased, right? Of course not. So let's stick with the ZOS modern exchange rate and call it a day. Spending literally double something's gold value in AP is a hard enough hit.

DeadlyRecluse

Isnt' 2-1 AP to gold the established ratio in the golden? Rep kits are more like 3-1 I guess. Anywhere between those two ratios seems fair.

Or even a way to spend like 50k AP for outfit change tokens...

pod88kk

Yes but compared to the amount of transmute crystals you get compared to pve players that makes up for it

Recremen

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Isnt' 2-1 AP to gold the established ratio in the golden? Rep kits are more like 3-1 I guess. Anywhere between those two ratios seems fair.

Or even a way to spend like 50k AP for outfit change tokens...

2:1 on The Golden, 4:1 for siege, at least when last I checked, though if you're saying 3:1 on repair kits then the siege merchants must have variable prices for different goods. Either way, nothing like the 6:1, 8:1, or even 13:1 I've seen people selling for.

Recremen

pod88kk wrote: »

Yes but compared to the amount of transmute crystals you get compared to pve players that makes up for it

No, it really doesn't. For one thing, transmutation crystals aren't a marketable good. Best you can do if you want to get money out of them is turn a weapon into Nirnhoned and then deconstruct it and hope you get the trait item back. Second, PvP players on average do NOT earn more transmutation crystals than PvE players. You're talking about people getting Rewards for the Worthy mails and opening them up on different characters every day, but most PvP players aren't getting enough of those for that to even be a meaningful farming method.

Lastly, and most importantly, THAT METHOD DOES NOT WORK AFTER THE PATCH. PvP players are now going to get fewer crystals than their PvE counterparts, on average. So no, nothing you said or implied is correct.

Aliyavana

I wish the alliance war mounts were bought for ap instead of crowns but zos is too afraid of losing revenue so all mounts since the base mounts have been crown only (with the exception of the nix ox but that was free with the chapter purchase)

DeadlyRecluse

Recremen wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Isnt' 2-1 AP to gold the established ratio in the golden? Rep kits are more like 3-1 I guess. Anywhere between those two ratios seems fair.

Or even a way to spend like 50k AP for outfit change tokens...

2:1 on The Golden, 4:1 for siege, at least when last I checked, though if you're saying 3:1 on repair kits then the siege merchants must have variable prices for different goods. Either way, nothing like the 6:1, 8:1, or even 13:1 I've seen people selling for.

Okay, I looked this up to satisfy my curiousity:

Golden is 2:1
Repair kits are 2.2:1 (90 gold to 200 AP)
Fire ballistas are 2.6:1 (450 gold to 1200 AP)
Firepot trebs are 4:1 (450 gold to 1800 AP).

So yeah, anywhere from 2:1 to 4:1 seems like a fair rate for "mechanical" conversions of AP.

swippy

i'm usually hesitant to advocate new options that would benefit me so greatly, but you've made a strong case here.

to the arguments:
i know a few people who make hundreds of thousands of AP in a day, and it's anything but effortless

and the transmute crystals thing has already been "fixed" for a third of the players, and the rest of us are just waiting for it to drop.

SGT_Wolfe101st

I am all for creating new ways to spend AP, but I do think in general it is faster and in some instances easier to gain large amounts of AP for the same amount of time earning gold. Getting 100-200K AP is far easier than getting an equal amount of gold. I can zerg surf for a couple of hours and get 100K+/- AP, getting 50K gold in that same amount of time is not as easy, You'd have to farm motifs, mats, or thief your brains out, and all of that would require some other entity, be it selling in zone or have a guild with a trader and returns are not guaranteed. I do both and I find earning AP is much easier than getting gold, I can get equal amounts in equal time but AP is easier.

Recremen

SGT_Wolfe101st wrote: »

I am all for creating new ways to spend AP, but I do think in general it is faster and in some instances easier to gain large amounts of AP for the same amount of time earning gold. Getting 100-200K AP is far easier than getting an equal amount of gold. I can zerg surf for a couple of hours and get 100K+/- AP, getting 50K gold in that same amount of time is not as easy, You'd have to farm motifs, mats, or thief your brains out, and all of that would require some other entity, be it selling in zone or have a guild with a trader and returns are not guaranteed. I do both and I find earning AP is much easier than getting gold, I can get equal amounts in equal time but AP is easier.

On the contrary, if you're looking to bypass selling things on the market gold is extraordinarily easy to farm up at higher than 50k/hour. Just go to a public dungeon or overland farming zone, kill mobs, sell loot. Up to 80k an hour no problem. Brainless and easy, and way less risk than zerg surfing.

SGT_Wolfe101st

Recremen wrote: »

SGT_Wolfe101st wrote: »

I am all for creating new ways to spend AP, but I do think in general it is faster and in some instances easier to gain large amounts of AP for the same amount of time earning gold. Getting 100-200K AP is far easier than getting an equal amount of gold. I can zerg surf for a couple of hours and get 100K+/- AP, getting 50K gold in that same amount of time is not as easy, You'd have to farm motifs, mats, or thief your brains out, and all of that would require some other entity, be it selling in zone or have a guild with a trader and returns are not guaranteed. I do both and I find earning AP is much easier than getting gold, I can get equal amounts in equal time but AP is easier.

On the contrary, if you're looking to bypass selling things on the market gold is extraordinarily easy to farm up at higher than 50k/hour. Just go to a public dungeon or overland farming zone, kill mobs, sell loot. Up to 80k an hour no problem. Brainless and easy, and way less risk than zerg surfing.

Please tell me what public dungeon or overland area has loot that you can guarantee 50k/hr? Sure Necro sells well, if you get a purple ring/necklace, or divines article. There are others but you can farm for hours and never get a perfect drop that is worth selling.

Recremen

SGT_Wolfe101st wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

SGT_Wolfe101st wrote: »

I am all for creating new ways to spend AP, but I do think in general it is faster and in some instances easier to gain large amounts of AP for the same amount of time earning gold. Getting 100-200K AP is far easier than getting an equal amount of gold. I can zerg surf for a couple of hours and get 100K+/- AP, getting 50K gold in that same amount of time is not as easy, You'd have to farm motifs, mats, or thief your brains out, and all of that would require some other entity, be it selling in zone or have a guild with a trader and returns are not guaranteed. I do both and I find earning AP is much easier than getting gold, I can get equal amounts in equal time but AP is easier.

On the contrary, if you're looking to bypass selling things on the market gold is extraordinarily easy to farm up at higher than 50k/hour. Just go to a public dungeon or overland farming zone, kill mobs, sell loot. Up to 80k an hour no problem. Brainless and easy, and way less risk than zerg surfing.

Please tell me what public dungeon or overland area has loot that you can guarantee 50k/hr? Sure Necro sells well, if you get a purple ring/necklace, or divines article. There are others but you can farm for hours and never get a perfect drop that is worth selling.

No no, not selling to players, vending for gold. That's why I said "bypass selling things on the market". Any public dungeon or overland zone. Unless there's too much competition, but even then it's not a total write-off. Also would love to know what zerg to surf to reliably get 100k AP in a couple of hours.

Recremen

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Isnt' 2-1 AP to gold the established ratio in the golden? Rep kits are more like 3-1 I guess. Anywhere between those two ratios seems fair.

Or even a way to spend like 50k AP for outfit change tokens...

2:1 on The Golden, 4:1 for siege, at least when last I checked, though if you're saying 3:1 on repair kits then the siege merchants must have variable prices for different goods. Either way, nothing like the 6:1, 8:1, or even 13:1 I've seen people selling for.

Okay, I looked this up to satisfy my curiousity:

Golden is 2:1
Repair kits are 2.2:1 (90 gold to 200 AP)
Fire ballistas are 2.6:1 (450 gold to 1200 AP)
Firepot trebs are 4:1 (450 gold to 1800 AP).

So yeah, anywhere from 2:1 to 4:1 seems like a fair rate for "mechanical" conversions of AP.

Ah interesting, thanks for looking up the number more exactly! I saw the price for firepot trebs and assumed it was the same for all the other offerings. Imagine my surprise when it turns out most goods have an even MORE favorable conversion rate! Really, whatever we can do to get things more in line with that is good in my book.