Alcast builds...

ckrobinson83

As someone who is really bad at builds, I try and find online sources to help out. Alcast seems to have a very complete website with a lot of good info, but I was wondering something about the one build I'm trying: The Dragonknight Stam tank.

I would think that the primary stat on that (after health) would be stam, yet his builds all show magica. So clearly I'm missing something. Any thoughts on that?
https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-dragonknight-tank-build-pve/

Thanks

Glockcoma725

His tanks use ALOT of magicka moves. Really the Taunt, Heroic Slash and Absorb shield are the only three skills he uses in that build that use Stamina, and none of those 3 are really big drains as long as your squeezing in heavy attacks. Now, if you plan on dropping a few of those skills and swapping in stamina skills then definately attribute more stamina than he has. But that is a pretty solid set up right there tbh

Apache_Kid

Well, you do have to block a bit...

Glockcoma725

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Well, you do have to block a bit...

You got me there, I actually haven't tanked since the new update, I forgot block cost is way harder. Before the update I didn't have any issues, but I'm betting it's hard now. I shall show myself to the door

Streega

There is no such thing as "Stamina Tank" now. StamDK DD - yes, but every tank is a hybrid now. Half of the skills are magica based, those from Shield line need stamina. Base attribute is health, but magica and stamina are equally needed for a tank.

Apache_Kid

Glockcoma725 wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Well, you do have to block a bit...

You got me there, I actually haven't tanked since the new update, I forgot block cost is way harder. Before the update I didn't have any issues, but I'm betting it's hard now. I shall show myself to the door

Haha, for what it's worth my tank has about equal magicka and stamina with about 1k more stamina. It's important to have a balance.

malicia

Only reason for a tank to have more stamina than magica is to make sure that Shards return stamina and not magica.

I prefer Woeler.eu for tanking builds, though. Woeler.eu explains things well enough that even a noob like me can adopt the build to work for their own skill level.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Well, you do have to block a bit...

Not if you are going to PUG it...

Woot! Bad PUG joke! I win the internets!

malicia

Most tanks will use more magica skills than stamina skills. Magica regenerates while blocking, allowing you to use those skills. Stamina doesn't regenerate while blocking, making it more difficult to replenish stamina.
.
Taunt and Heroic slash are both free when the 1H&S ulti is active, so that's a pretty nice get-out-of-jail card for when your stamina is really running low. Absorb Shield reduces block cost (while on your bar, I think), further helping you to manage stamina.

Zer0oo

Stam is for taunting, low slash and blocking and all the mag is for utility skills(buffs, heals,..). Both pools are important but you should have a bigger stam than mag pool due how the orbs/shards now work. Also having a good mag regen is quite nice as tank because you can use more utility skills.

ckrobinson83

Huh. I'm running a warden tank who's doing pretty well, both before and after the update. Mainly pugs, but she has 0 magica and a very high health and some stam.

Tetrafy

The main reason we go for health is because of shields on the DK. Then mag recovery becomes way more important than stats into mag since Morrowind update. Heavy attacks give back stam so mag recovert and resists near cap are important too.

AcadianPaladin

All good points. +35 health, solid stam pool since it does not regen while blocking and for shards synergy use you want stam higher than mag. For mag, focus more on mag regen than size of mag pool. As mentioned above, Woeler explains this very well for a DK tank.

One minor area where you can 'season to taste' is the ranged taunt (undaunted skill) morph - you can choose either a stam mag morph depending on your build/style.

Jim_Pipp

Well that specific build used to be called a stamina tank, but is now called a "health tank" (if you look for it under the current dragonbones PVE builds using the navigation bars). The name of the build just hasn't been updated on it's specific page, and obviously it can still be classed as a stam dk tank.

Alcast explains that the build has great stamina sustain, so it can have lower stam, but it does rely on having shards or orbs from group members. That level of health is necessary in trials and vet-dlc dungeons, but in any other content you won't need that much health and can take more stamina if it suits your playstyles.

I came to this thread thinking it was a discussion of Alcast's builds generally. I am so grateful for how much he does for our game. I'd played with my own builds for 3 years before I did a version of one of his "Meta" builds and the difference was insane. More than that it taught me were I was going wrong with my own theory-crafted builds. It is great that he is now offering non-meta builds (e.g. sorc tank, dk healer) although I feel he is just copy/pasting his meta gear sets instead of focusing on what each class does distinctly well (e.g. high crit is more useful on a nightblade healer because of the large numbers of dot's and hot's in play).

Kuramas9tails

A lot of DK tanks run a lot of magic skills because you need stamina for blocking and taunting (and vigor if needed). You don't want to run a lot of stamina skills because then you would have no stamina left for blocking. It's a resource balance. Tanks run tri glyphs for this reason and are Argonians because of the tri resource gain when consuming a potion (usually also a tri pot). But I have seen a lot of different builds and that seems to be the most successful for a majority of people. I once watched an ice staff tank try to tank nAS and they blamed me (the healer) for their death. I ran that trial on normal on my tank and didn't die once and we only had one healer and he was focused on healing the group. Some people literally believe you just have to stand there and hold block through EVERYTHING while the healer heals them. I believe a tank needs to be self sustaining for a certain amount of time and what has worked for me is being a hybrid.

Mureel

malicia wrote: »

Only reason for a tank to have more stamina than magica is to make sure that Shards return stamina and not magica.

I prefer Woeler.eu for tanking builds, though. Woeler.eu explains things well enough that even a noob like me can adopt the build to work for their own skill level.

Was just gonna say, for tanking go Woeler.

Luigi_Vampa

Check out @Liofa as well for tank builds. His videos are informative and in depth as to why he does what he does. I think he even just posted a DK tank build here.

Nifty2g

That's a well rounded build, you don't need more health than that for most trials. There is no such thing as a stamina or magicka tank though, if you're going to tank just call yourself a tank

Most groups don't run a magicka dragonknight so the only thing I'd change in that build would be engulfing flames front bar and spell symmetry/balance back bar.

Other than that, you can beat pretty much everything with that exact set up

Also depending on skill level I assume is why he has absorb magic on bar, mostly don't need absorb magic instead replace it with heroic slash, and just heavy attack every now and then for the resource gain

fred4

DKs get stamina from using Earthen Heart skills, due to the Helping Hands passive. Tanks typically cast Igneous Shield for this. You don't regenerate stamina, but you have a way of converting magicka to small amounts of stamina, while holding block. If your block cost is small enough, this will sustain you quite a bit.

ckrobinson83

Thanks for all the input folks! I'm doing the level thing for my new tank now and I appreciate it.

Nighn_9

If Alcast ever left ESO, so many players would lose their minds xD

SmellyUnlimited

@ckrobinson83

Note that on his tank build, the Mage's Guild skill "Balance" (morph from Equilibrium) is a major part of the build.

You trade health for Magicka. It's instant, can do it as many times as you like. You can continue casting the Magicka abilities you need, or trade that magicka for stamina via Igneous Shields spam.

However:

You do want (and he mentions this also) more Stamina than Magicka. That way, when you snyergize on a shard, you're resupplying yourself with Stam (since you can already get Magicka on the fly). So if your personal stats give you a large magicka pool, but a smaller stam pool, you need to reenchant some gear to stamina (or reallocate Character points).

Ultimately, as a tank you'll want a number of Tri-glyphs (at least on the big pieces).

Ragnarock41

Maybe if people stopped calling Dk tanks ''stam Dk'' your question would sort itself out.

DoctorESO

Nighn_9 wrote: »

If Alcast ever left ESO, so many players would lose their minds xD

But I assume there would also be a power struggle and someone will fill the void and be the new almighty queen or king of the ESO builds.

Conduit0

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Maybe if people stopped calling Dk tanks ''stam Dk'' your question would sort itself out.

Its an old habit that is hard to break. Prior to Morrowind they were called stam tanks because you stacked large amounts of stamina, helping hands was percentage based so the more stam you had the better your sustain was.

Ep1kMalware

ckrobinson83 wrote: »

As someone who is really bad at builds, I try and find online sources to help out. Alcast seems to have a very complete website with a lot of good info, but I was wondering something about the one build I'm trying: The Dragonknight Stam tank.

I would think that the primary stat on that (after health) would be stam, yet his builds all show magica. So clearly I'm missing something. Any thoughts on that?
https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-dragonknight-tank-build-pve/

Thanks

Alcast is terrible at builds, for tanks check out woeler.

SmellyUnlimited

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

ckrobinson83 wrote: »

As someone who is really bad at builds, I try and find online sources to help out. Alcast seems to have a very complete website with a lot of good info, but I was wondering something about the one build I'm trying: The Dragonknight Stam tank.

I would think that the primary stat on that (after health) would be stam, yet his builds all show magica. So clearly I'm missing something. Any thoughts on that?
https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-dragonknight-tank-build-pve/

Thanks

Alcast is terrible at builds, for tanks check out woeler.

I also would recommend Gilliam and Nightblade Mechanics guides specifically for Nightblades (both Mag/Stam) over Alcast’s.

Tasear

Alcat's healer builds aren't that great if it's not Templar.

Ragnarock41

Conduit0 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Maybe if people stopped calling Dk tanks ''stam Dk'' your question would sort itself out.

Its an old habit that is hard to break. Prior to Morrowind they were called stam tanks because you stacked large amounts of stamina, helping hands was percentage based so the more stam you had the better your sustain was.

Well, It triggers me when people make a build with barely 15k stamina and call it a ''stamDk'' nowadays.

I've seen magsorcs with more stamina than that...

Ep1kMalware

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

ckrobinson83 wrote: »

As someone who is really bad at builds, I try and find online sources to help out. Alcast seems to have a very complete website with a lot of good info, but I was wondering something about the one build I'm trying: The Dragonknight Stam tank.

I would think that the primary stat on that (after health) would be stam, yet his builds all show magica. So clearly I'm missing something. Any thoughts on that?
https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-dragonknight-tank-build-pve/

Thanks

Alcast is terrible at builds, for tanks check out woeler.

I also would recommend Gilliam and Nightblade Mechanics guides specifically for Nightblades (both Mag/Stam) over Alcast’s.

Yeah his video is little winded but if one genuinely wants solid build advice it's a must watch.