Warden does nothing better than other classes. What is its niche? (Besides PVP).

Knowledge

Dragonknight is the best tank in the game.
Sorcerer is arguably one of the better magicka ranged DPS in the game.
Nightblade is arguable one of the better magicka ranged DPS in the game, if not best.
Templar heals better than all classes.

Warden has the lowest damage in the game.
Warden tanks worse than dragonknight.
Warden cannot compete with templar healing.

Can someone tell me the reason to play a Warden besides "it's fun?"

X3ina

I believe that warden is hands down best interrupter + buff machine for vAS hm (something like: 5x SPC + Master Architect) via 1 skill called lotus blossom (or something).

Runefang

What's it's niche besides the niches I don't care about you mean?

Kingslayer513

Knowledge wrote: »

Dragonknight is the best tank in the game.
Sorcerer is arguably one of the better magicka ranged DPS in the game.
Nightblade is arguable one of the better magicka ranged DPS in the game, if not best.
Templar heals better than all classes.

Warden has the lowest damage in the game.
Warden tanks worse than dragonknight.
Warden cannot compete with templar healing.

Can someone tell me the reason to play a Warden besides "it's fun?"

For Stam warden, its niche is PVP though. You can't just exclude it for no reason. That's like saying "what is Templar's niche (besides healing)". That's its niche. It's comparable in other areas, but not the best. As for MagWarden, it needs work of course and I think everyone here will agree on that, but don't downplay MagWarden healing that much because it's actually pretty good.

Anotherone773

I should point out not everyone plays the "best build" game. I play a wood elf bow/bow stamblade for example which is rather challenging to kill anything harder than a skeever. My destro magsorc is easy mode in comparison and melts mobs with almost no effort. Both ranged, one obviously better at range, but i actually like the challenge of the stamblade and trying to make it work. I have to kite mobs with it, use self heals and pots, etc. My magsorc can just stand in one spot and rain death, doesnt even need to move out of the red, lol.

Silver_Strider

Why does it need to be the best at something?

It's DPS is lacking outside of PvP but its Tanking and Healing capabilities are great, not enough to dethrone DKs or Templars from their respective niches but that's fine since it's still a well rounded class. IMO, it's one of the better balanced classes in ESO. Sure, DKs can DPS and Tank but their healing is something to be desired, Templars can Heal and DPS but their Tanking is subpar, Sorcs and NBs can arguably do all 3 roles but lack some of the tools Templars and DK have more readily available, relying more on gear to make up for that difference, limiting their total capabilities in roles outside of DPS. Wardens can Tank and Heal fine but their DPS in PvE is lacking.

Could Wardens DPS in PVE be improved upon? Absolutel, but that doesn't really mean the class needs to be the hands down best at something to be a good class either.

Turelus

Wasn't the design of the Warden meant to be a jack of all trades, support character.

Which sounds great, apart from no one in ESO wants a support role when they can have more DPS/Heals/Tanking.

I think the class needs some love at some point, especially in PvE DPS and addressing useless skills (there should never be a passive which doesn't help both Stam/Magicka builds in some way) however I wonder if ZOS fears buffing it too much as it'll upset the "pay to win" hardcore crowed.

DieAlteHexe

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Why does it need to be the best at something?

It's DPS is lacking outside of PvP but its Tanking and Healing capabilities are great, not enough to dethrone DKs or Templars from their respective niches but that's fine since it's still a well rounded class. IMO, it's one of the better balanced classes in ESO. Sure, DKs can DPS and Tank but their healing is something to be desired, Templars can Heal and DPS but their Tanking is subpar, Sorcs and NBs can arguably do all 3 roles but lack some of the tools Templars and DK have more readily available, relying more on gear to make up for that difference, limiting their total capabilities in roles outside of DPS. Wardens can Tank and Heal fine but their DPS in PvE is lacking.

Could Wardens DPS in PVE be improved upon? Absolutel, but that doesn't really mean the class needs to be the hands down best at something to be a good class either.

I have two wardens (and a third to level for the new "stuff"). One Magicka and one Stamina. I don't PvP. I do just fine. It's very rarely that I die and when I do it's usually because I'm an idiot at times. I don't have any issues doing all the content I'm interested in. Granted, I don't eviscerate as quickly as an NB nor melt like a Sorc but it works for me.

Loc2262

Warden is also good for stamina solo play. You get a strong stamina heal without having to go to Cyro to farm Vigor. And yeah, the jack-of-all-trades was basically Zenimax' idea for the Warden. Perfect for solo I'd say.

Rex-Umbra

Play another class if you dont like it.

essi2

I haven't tried it yet, already have too many alts(lol, like you could ever have too many alts), but Warden could make a pretty good off-tank if you don't have a templar tank handy.


My Khajiit Stamina Warden DW toon does okay DPS. But the Warden isn't the best at anything, that much is probably true.


Slight Rant:

It is also true that any class can do more or less every role in the game.

No bad builds, just bad builders(alternatively you have s****y BiS thumping friends and might want to see about finding new ones)

notmeta

I think you've got meta goggles on and this is why it bothers you so much

Morgul667

I think warden tanks are pretty good

moonio

They brought the Warden in to offer stamina builds more ranged attacks without having to rely on a bow..

Timeraider

They are great in outshining people who then are like "omg that Warden is so skilled".
Worth the tradeoff of being a weak pve character and forced to birdspam in pvp ;P

Lysette

Anotherone773 wrote: »

I should point out not everyone plays the "best build" game. I play a wood elf bow/bow stamblade for example which is rather challenging to kill anything harder than a skeever. My destro magsorc is easy mode in comparison and melts mobs with almost no effort. Both ranged, one obviously better at range, but i actually like the challenge of the stamblade and trying to make it work. I have to kite mobs with it, use self heals and pots, etc. My magsorc can just stand in one spot and rain death, doesnt even need to move out of the red, lol.

Hm, I am actually pretty satisfied with the performance of my stamblade bow users in PvE. For stealthy, ranged combat it is a really enjoyable build in PvE especially with Bosmer and Khajiit - and magicka based abilities I am just using for gap closer and finisher, well, sometimes I go for the guaranteed critical after cloaking - so I am not using a lot of magicka with this build. It is basically an archer in medium armor, who is eventually using dual wield or two handed as backup weapons.

Edit this said, I am loving the bow - I would as well play an archer, if he/she would perform less good than anything else.

Gorrvald

I'm way happier with my warden tank than my dragonknight tank. I just prefer the warden for my playstyle.

So there's no "best or worst" - it comes down to what suits YOUR style of playing.

alanmatillab16_ESO

Knowledge wrote: »

Can someone tell me the reason to play a Warden besides "it's fun?"

There doesn't need to be any other reason for me, i'm not a meta-gamer.

Grabmoore

They are a strong buff bot as Healtank in combination with Masterarchitect in a 1 Tank 3 DD run.

You better want to ask: What is the purpose of magicka DK besides respecing to Full Tank?

pauli133

I've found my Warden tank to be both more enjoyable and more effective than my DK.

Chaos2088

Gorrvald wrote: »

I'm way happier with my warden tank than my dragonknight tank. I just prefer the warden for my playstyle.

So there's no "best or worst" - it comes down to what suits YOUR style of playing.

I cannot agree with this enough.

It really does depend on what you like/suits you and your play-style.

ANGEL_BtVS

Turelus wrote: »

Wasn't the design of the Warden meant to be a jack of all trades, support character.

Which sounds great, apart from no one in ESO wants a support role when they can have more DPS/Heals/Tanking.

I think the class needs some love at some point, especially in PvE DPS and addressing useless skills (there should never be a passive which doesn't help both Stam/Magicka builds in some way) however I wonder if ZOS fears buffing it too much as it'll upset the "pay to win" hardcore crowed.

I agree. If ZOS would buff frost/cold damage the Warden would be a no brainer great ice mage DD given the Winter's Embrace skill line. Winterborn and Ysgramor's Birthright are waiting for their turn in the spotlight as well.

SolidusPrime

I suppose if you number crunch, you are right.

But in reality, we all know there comes a point of diminishing returns where there really is no difference. Yes, a templar might be throwing out higher heal numbers, but both classes are perfectly capable of keeping the party at full HP. Tanking might be simpler or easier for a DK, but if a Warden draws all the aggro and does his job, what's the difference?

The Warden's niche is that he offers the option of a different playstyle for any of the existing roles in the game.

JobooAGS

I guess it was supposed to be an actual archer build due to the class ranged skills they have for them

Tasear

Defensive gameplay

It won't give you highest numbers, but allows you take more risks and it be more forgiving.

kylewwefan

Warden is quite strong class to play. It’s not the best DPS, but not exactly weak. Not the best healer, but heals are strong. Not the best tank, but can tank quite easily. If you choose to go the Frozen route, there is no better choice than Warden.

There is a good bit of value to me in playing a class that is fun.

My wardens have excellent survival, decent damage and good self heals and strong shields. Sure, other classes could do some things better, quicker or more efficiently but the warden can do them. They aren’t excluded from anything.

Warden excels at group support. You can’t overlook how good they are in PvP just because.

Wing

warden is not the best at anything, but decent at everything regardless of spec (stam or magicka)

pre warden I would have recommended Templar for all noobs as you can jabs and BoL your way through the game.

however now I would recommend warden, it also scales better as you learn the game as the ceiling on its skill can get pretty high, you can play magicka or stamina, you can dps, heal, and tank decently, it has quite a few unique utility skills and does not lack anything compared to other classes that might lack burst healing, mobility, cc, buffs, etc.

it may not be the best at anything, but it is great at everything and can easily fill any that might be missing without switching classes. most well rounded class in the game.

TheNuminous1

ill say it again for the sake of saying it at this point. i can heal any templar under the table. the raw healing utility and buffs my warden wearing spellpower and architect can provide far surpasses templars.

technohic

I never get this argument. We have 3 roles really. Tank, DPS, Healer. 5 classes. Math says not everyone can be the best at 1 thing. And before someone says "But ranged DPS and Melee DPS so 4 roles" We're still short and not to mention, theirs also magicka and stam. Its just impossible to have each class be the best at somethings.

Think your argument needs to be whether they are adequate at something.

Lynx7386

If you ask me the warden is a better tank in 90% of content than dragon knight. Just because dragon knights have a negligible edge in the hardest and most exclusive content doesn't mean they're the best everywhere else.

Remee

I'm not sure what would make the warden any better without making it over powered.

I currently run a 2hand/bow stam build. I can substain 20k dps (depending on fight of course.) While having a 5 medium 2 heavy survival build with 30k stam and 28k health. Oh did I mention that while doing that I still push out about 7k hps at the same time.

It isn't the best at any one thing, but damned if it isn't great for what it is capable of. The only thing you ever have to die to are one shot mechanics and soloing vet content.