MagSorc dead long live MagBlade?

Knowledge

I keep seeing this narrative pressed in chats, discords, and on reddit. It seems that the general consensus is that MagBlade is superior now and the MagSorc is far behind it in comparison. How do you guys feel about this?

Lexxypwns

It’s true for pvp, from what I’ve heard mageblade can outperform mag sorc on the high end in pve but lower skill/easier rotations get mag sorc to acceptable damage levels

Vahrokh

It's true since months, I am surprised nobody figured out this earlier.

Waffennacht

Vahrokh wrote: »

It's true since months, I am surprised nobody figured out this earlier.

SoLooney

magblades for a while always have been superior to mag sorcs, at least single target wise, mag sorc probably has better cleave, esp if they have the volatile familiar.

seems like each year, a class has its moment. 2016 was templar, 2017 was sorcerer, and now 2018 is nightblades, magblades got even stronger with the bow procs staying even after refreshing merciless, stamblades seem to be making a good comeback too

mag sorcs just keep getting small nerfs each patch probably cause everyone was complaining so much that zos ended up shafting the class altogether

Sky_WK

Lexxypwns wrote: »

It’s true for pvp, from what I’ve heard mageblade can outperform mag sorc on the high end in pve but lower skill/easier rotations get mag sorc to acceptable damage levels

Acceptable? Ive been parsing around 39k without electricity drain lol. Yes I can hit harder on my magblade but that's well above acceptable.

SirAndy

Knowledge wrote: »

MagSorc dead

Hyperbole much?

Vahrokh

SirAndy wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

MagSorc dead

Hyperbole much?

Sadly, this is what you'll get in game as well.

Raid leader> Sorcs now deal 500 less DPS than magblades?
Raid leader> Let's form trial group, 1 tank, 2 healers, 8 magblades, 1 sorc

WuffyCerulei

There's still a crap ton of good magsorcs in pve and pvp. Just not flavor of the month, I suppose.

geonsocal

personally I enjoy each character (have each race & stam/mag version of each class)...

things change each patch - no reason to put a character on the shelf for a few months or so...

best to simply adapt...

on the other hand - i'm a solo player so I don't have to deal with group peer pressure concerning the build i'm using...

MisterBigglesworth

Time to give them back unlimited blinking.

ccfeeling

PVP ?
PVE ?

Waffennacht

ccfeeling wrote: »

PVP ?
PVE ?

Either?

Mag sorc has better solo experience at best (PvE solo)

Aedaryl

In PvE magblade have better single target damage than mag sorc.

In PvP, magblade is far superior to sorc on :

- Damage
- Escape
- Healing
- Utility
- Duel (NB destroy magicka sorc in duel because they have better pressure and better burst than sorc, while having better tankiness cuz HoT. Nb is also a true beast agaisnt any melee build : they can manage to be so mobile than you will have a very hard time to touch them cuz Shadow image, cripple speed buff/debuff, flame reach, cloak).


But sorc is better for pure tanking, Nb have trouble in 1vX because it's harder for them to survive in fight., a NB can't play the "try to touch me" game on multiple people and keeping a good pressure at the same time. NB is better for escape, but escaping everything is not what you need when you want to kill people.

In duel or smallscale or bomb squad, NB is always a strong choice, prefer a sorc for 1vX because you will be able to mitigate better the damage from multiple ennemies.

rafaelcsmaia

Last patch magsorcs were dealing 42k dps consistently with drain, since magnbs have the benefit of minor berserk, they would need around 45k with drain to be on par, and aside from those going melee with master architect (in which case they should compare with other melee specs like stam) i haven't seen anyone getting those numbers.

Dont get me wrong, magnbs are strong, even more in scenarios like vas where ppl dont get minor berserk from healers consistently, but the overreaction on sorcs is a little exaggerated.

Imo the problem with magsorcs is the dependency on stupid pets for nice dps, not the dps numbers themselves

Oreyn_Bearclaw

From a PVE damage class perspective, you are a little late on this one. Mageblade has been superior for range magic DPS for a while now, especially if you take pets out of the equation. The best non pet sorcs are pushing 50k single target in a high end raid and the best mageblades are pushing 60k.

Sorcs have their uses, for one, they are significantly easier to play. They also have better AOE damage if you bring pets into the discussion.

If complexity of rotation is a non issue for you, mNB is the premier magic class for PVE DPS really since morrowind, but it took a bit for people to realize it.

As someone that generally chases the meta for damage, I am all in on mageblade at this point if I need to be ranged.

Runefang

If pets were more viable in trials you'd probably see magsorcs a lot more, they're just so easy compared to magblades.

Magblades obviously are needed if you want to achieve leaderboard results. The common man will be better off using a pet magsorc whenever possible. Even ranged magplars and non-pet magsorcs are easy enough and can achieve pretty good dps without a lot of practice.

Lexxypwns

Sky_WK wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

It’s true for pvp, from what I’ve heard mageblade can outperform mag sorc on the high end in pve but lower skill/easier rotations get mag sorc to acceptable damage levels

Acceptable? Ive been parsing around 39k without electricity drain lol. Yes I can hit harder on my magblade but that's well above acceptable.

Nobody cares what you parse. I’m simply stating that it is much easier to get a raid qualifying parse on mag sorc than mageblade because the rotation is easier but at the maximum performance level mageblade is better. This means if you want top DPS go magblade but sorc still has its place because of a relatively easy rotation that allows lesser players to reach a DPS level that will get them in guild groups.

ccfeeling

So current meta trail roles setup , Magblade > Magsorc ?

If this is correct , It's pretty different what I see in the trial .

technohic

For PvP I think I like my sorc more. Only because its easier.

rafaelcsmaia

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

From a PVE damage class perspective, you are a little late on this one. Mageblade has been superior for range magic DPS for a while now, especially if you take pets out of the equation. The best non pet sorcs are pushing 50k single target in a high end raid and the best mageblades are pushing 60k.

Sorcs have their uses, for one, they are significantly easier to play. They also have better AOE damage if you bring pets into the discussion.

If complexity of rotation is a non issue for you, mNB is the premier magic class for PVE DPS really since morrowind, but it took a bit for people to realize it.

As someone that generally chases the meta for damage, I am all in on mageblade at this point if I need to be ranged.

Not sure if that was an answer to me but anyways, if it is, just read my last sentence, the pets are the problem, not the numbers, you conpared non pet with mageblade, pet numbers are about the same. And I know pet sucks.

EPelite

Lexxypwns wrote: »

It’s true for pvp, from what I’ve heard mageblade can outperform mag sorc on the high end in pve but lower skill/easier rotations get mag sorc to acceptable damage levels

I agree 100% magNB can outperform sorc in pve but the skill cap is way higher but also endless, the better you get at your animation canceling on MagNB the higher damage, it’s not the same with sorc, although sorc still have great damage and easy rotations, I find myself staying on my sorc in pve as I can still get 50-55K in trails even though I see the magnb´s do 60k+

Pvp is much the same if you ask me, there is no doubt that magNB is stronger in duels if you got the skill level to match it.

Pardon the bad English, I’m Danish.

Vahrokh

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

There's still a crap ton of good magsorcs in pve and pvp. Just not flavor of the month, I suppose.

You'll say that even when you'd only see one sorc in a whole zone.

Vahrokh

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

Last patch magsorcs were dealing 42k dps consistently with drain, since magnbs have the benefit of minor berserk, they would need around 45k with drain to be on par, and aside from those going melee with master architect (in which case they should compare with other melee specs like stam) i haven't seen anyone getting those numbers.

Dont get me wrong, magnbs are strong, even more in scenarios like vas where ppl dont get minor berserk from healers consistently, but the overreaction on sorcs is a little exaggerated.

Imo the problem with magsorcs is the dependency on stupid pets for nice dps, not the dps numbers themselves

"42k dps consistently with drain" come on, even cheese parse hunters like youtubers struggle to get there.

In 2 trial guilds I am in, we are looking for DPS people... the average (not just sorcs) do 25k dummy solo parses, the best do 30k. Some nightblades do more but it's a minority.

Faulgor

For what it's worth, the Atronach ulti seems quite good now.

DemonDruaga

Playing pve magblade since 2015 or so(before that stam)
I really like that

Sky_WK

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Sky_WK wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

It’s true for pvp, from what I’ve heard mageblade can outperform mag sorc on the high end in pve but lower skill/easier rotations get mag sorc to acceptable damage levels

Acceptable? Ive been parsing around 39k without electricity drain lol. Yes I can hit harder on my magblade but that's well above acceptable.

Nobody cares what you parse. I’m simply stating that it is much easier to get a raid qualifying parse on mag sorc than mageblade because the rotation is easier but at the maximum performance level mageblade is better. This means if you want top DPS go magblade but sorc still has its place because of a relatively easy rotation that allows lesser players to reach a DPS level that will get them in guild groups.

I was simply pointing out that mag sorcs can still hit super hard, not "acceptable" don't get so triggered because I pointed out your poor choice of words bud.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

From a PVE damage class perspective, you are a little late on this one. Mageblade has been superior for range magic DPS for a while now, especially if you take pets out of the equation. The best non pet sorcs are pushing 50k single target in a high end raid and the best mageblades are pushing 60k.

Sorcs have their uses, for one, they are significantly easier to play. They also have better AOE damage if you bring pets into the discussion.

If complexity of rotation is a non issue for you, mNB is the premier magic class for PVE DPS really since morrowind, but it took a bit for people to realize it.

As someone that generally chases the meta for damage, I am all in on mageblade at this point if I need to be ranged.

Not sure if that was an answer to me but anyways, if it is, just read my last sentence, the pets are the problem, not the numbers, you conpared non pet with mageblade, pet numbers are about the same. And I know pet sucks.

Yes, did that on purpose. As you said, pets suck (at least in a trial). If I am being honest, I dont hate where the balance is right now. Pet sorc is a safe and simple way to pull great damage for most content. If you really want to work at it, you can do better on a mageblade, but that said, a mediocre mageblade rotation is going to get beat by a mediocre sorc rotation.

NB may be meta, but it's not the cheese meta that sorc was at one point. It takes skill to pull high DPS on a NB.

Eyesinthedrk

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

Dont get me wrong, magnbs are strong, even more in scenarios like vas where ppl dont get minor berserk from healers consistently, but the overreaction on sorcs is a little exaggerated.

Isn’t that always the case with the community? I call it the chicken little scenario. Sorcs got their shield nerfed to 6 second and all we heard is “sorcs are trash”, “R.I.P. sorc”. Had 2 or three more nerfs after that. Then necro comes out. “Sorcs are OP”, “nerf sorcs”

Same thing with DK. the went a year straight, getting nerfed on every update. Then one good patch and it’s DKs are need a nerf.

No matter the class or even the gear set, it’s 1% from being OP or garbage. If you ask the community that is.

LiquidPony

.

Vahrokh wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

Last patch magsorcs were dealing 42k dps consistently with drain, since magnbs have the benefit of minor berserk, they would need around 45k with drain to be on par, and aside from those going melee with master architect (in which case they should compare with other melee specs like stam) i haven't seen anyone getting those numbers.

Dont get me wrong, magnbs are strong, even more in scenarios like vas where ppl dont get minor berserk from healers consistently, but the overreaction on sorcs is a little exaggerated.

Imo the problem with magsorcs is the dependency on stupid pets for nice dps, not the dps numbers themselves

"42k dps consistently with drain" come on, even cheese parse hunters like youtubers struggle to get there.

In 2 trial guilds I am in, we are looking for DPS people... the average (not just sorcs) do 25k dummy solo parses, the best do 30k. Some nightblades do more but it's a minority.

Not trying to sound "elitist" but that's a really low bar.

Pretty much any of the end-game viable builds can easily hit 40k (and often well over that) on a "solo" parse (with mag getting ele drain from someone else), except for the stam classes that lack Major Fracture (stamplar, stamsorc), without cheesing anything.

SoLooney

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

Last patch magsorcs were dealing 42k dps consistently with drain, since magnbs have the benefit of minor berserk, they would need around 45k with drain to be on par, and aside from those going melee with master architect (in which case they should compare with other melee specs like stam) i haven't seen anyone getting those numbers.

Dont get me wrong, magnbs are strong, even more in scenarios like vas where ppl dont get minor berserk from healers consistently, but the overreaction on sorcs is a little exaggerated.

Imo the problem with magsorcs is the dependency on stupid pets for nice dps, not the dps numbers themselves

ppl been getting 40 to 41k without a pet. pets only pull like 1.5k to 2k dps more.

mag sorcs have good cleave dmg because of liquid lightning, wall and scamp pulse, but they are not pulling that high of single target dmg, esp when you compare it to magblades who are getting 59k plus on lambent dummies

sorcs also benefitted the group with light wall for off balance, but since theres a big change with that, they arent as desired as a magblade. i could see one being used for end game raids, but it would be more optimal to have more mblades