Exploiting into Keeps

Forztr

@ZOS_BrianWheeler If you not going to ban players for doing this then please remove the guards on the walls by the main gates. It is starting to turn into an epidemic on EU Vivec and the guards are useless anyway.

VoiDGhOs7

It was probably a bug or ppl were already in keep before, and it might have been the lag caused by AD and DC zergs so that would explain ppl going through walls or underground get stuck in walls while gap closing or enter keeps without opening the walls or gates.

Forztr

VoiDGhOs7 wrote: »

It was probably a bug or ppl were already in keep before, and it might have been the lag caused by AD and DC zergs so that would explain ppl going through walls or underground get stuck in walls while gap closing or enter keeps without opening the walls or gates.

People do it intentionally. I once report the same guy on three separate occasions, twice on one evening and again a few days later. He still plays and you'll still see him in unbreached keeps. I just stopped reporting because what's the point. You get an automated reply saying they won't tell you the results of the investigation or any actions taken and if they don't hear from you again in 96hours they'll assume the matter resolved. Oh and they also state in the same email if you don't like someone's behaviour you can put them on ignore, not sure how ignoring someone stops them from cheating.

fastolfv_ESO

its been really easy for a while, dk chains that pull you to target can be used on mage guards in gatehouse to pull you in keep, you can then rappids and jump off the wall and chain yourself inside the inner from the mage guards in that loop. Then all it takes is clearing guards inside, sieging the inner door to about 90% from the inside and flags will flip bam 1-2 ppl can take virtually any keep

Beardimus

It's odd that the whole conversation on cheating is ignored by ZOS. There's no medium to address it.

I get that they don't have resources and often there's hearsay around who did what, it when you have video proof I don't see why there isn't a way the community can police it for them.

After all they can check the details in the data am sure to back up any videos.

I have full on proof of AP boosting yet nadda done about it

VaranisArano

VoiDGhOs7 wrote: »

It was probably a bug or ppl were already in keep before, and it might have been the lag caused by AD and DC zergs so that would explain ppl going through walls or underground get stuck in walls while gap closing or enter keeps without opening the walls or gates.

Its a well-known exploit.

ZOS talked about it here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/278031/cyrodiil-cheating-exploiting-you/p1

I'm bolding a portion for emphasis.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Lately, we’ve seen a lot of questions about what we consider cheating and/or exploiting in ESO. The amount of people using exploits, especially in Cyrodiil, has also been on the rise. Due to this, and our recent efforts to take a stronger stance against exploiting and cheating in ESO, this has become a hotly debated topic within our community. We’d like to help shed some light on what we consider cheating and exploiting and how you can help us curb this behavior.

We would generally frown upon (and potentially take action as a result of) using third party tools or taking an advantage of an in-game mechanic that is not currently working as designed to in any way provide an advantage to your playing abilities. In plain English: if it looks or feels like cheating, then try it out at your own risk. Or better yet, don’t try it at all.

We have a zero tolerance policy for cheating/exploiting/using unapproved third party tools (such as Cheat Engine), so you should also know that even a single instance can lead to a 72-hour suspension, or even a permanent ban, depending on the offense. And in the specific case of Cheat Engine, even the first offense will result in a permanent ban.

There are certain things we’re working on fixing on our end to make this behavior no longer possible, but that does not mean it’s okay to exploit these issues in the meantime.

To summarize, if you are using abilities such as gap closers to do things that are not within the realm of intended design and/or bypassing core game mechanics, such as entering keeps without downing doors and/or walls and getting under the environment (ground, water, etc.), you are exploiting. In short: don’t do it. If we catch you exploiting and/or cheating, even once, it is grounds for disciplinary action up to and including a permanent ban of your game account. If in doubt about whether or not certain actions or activity are considered exploiting, you are welcome to ask us here on the forums.

Thank you all for your cooperation in helping us keep ESO free of cheating and exploiting, and a fun, fair environment for all.

Nifty2g

Ackwalan

Beardimus wrote: »

It's odd that the whole conversation on cheating is ignored by ZOS. There's no medium to address it.

I get that they don't have resources and often there's hearsay around who did what, it when you have video proof I don't see why there isn't a way the community can police it for them.

After all they can check the details in the data am sure to back up any videos.

I have full on proof of AP boosting yet nadda done about it

There was a "sticky" post that addressed cheating and exploiting, but ZOS ignored it for almost 2 years (hoping it would go away?) until they just removed it. I guess if a new players first look into the forums was to see a 100+ page post about cheating with no response from ZOS, it would look really poor.

Morgul667

Have seen people doing that on SHOR EU.

Nothing happens, they keep doing this all the time...

Ultimate_Overlord

Honestly, it would be great game design if solo players/very small groups could use grappling hooks to enter keeps. Luckily, we have flawed mechanics/coding to compensate for the lack of interesting game design, so, if anything, these exploits only make for exciting and unusual gameplay experience.

White wabbit

Nifty2g wrote: »

You might but others do and in my opinion those that don't care are likely the ones that have used it

Feanor

Well. The inner should just be protected by a instagib magic wall like the outer area in vWGT or the quest where you fight Mannimarco in the Worm Castle. The wall dissolves when the inner reaches 30% or so.

Turelus

It's been an issue since forever. Enforcement of Cyrodiil is a PITA and something they sadly don't seem to be able to do in live time.

Your best chance at getting actions is to record players doing it and send the footage to ZOS in a report then sending a PM with the ticket number to a few of the staff to review.

It's also worth making sure you keep pressure on your own factions, guilds and friends to not be doing it themselves.

VaranisArano

Feanor wrote: »

Well. The inner should just be protected by a instagib magic wall like the outer area in vWGT or the quest where you fight Mannimarco in the Worm Castle. The wall dissolves when the inner reaches 30% or so.

Except that its a valid tactic to stealth out in the inner keep as the enemy is capturing it and to sneak around. If the enemy doesn't search the keep properly, you get to sneak around, gank people, and try to recapture the keep.

That's a valid tactic. You were already there when the keep flipped and the enemy didn't kill you.

Chaining yourself up on the walls is something that ZOS has said is an exploit.

SugaComa

From what I know only exploit to get in is tagging the enemy as they enter a door

The other way in isn't an exploit, basically you seige the corner go hide in the debris then when it repairs, gets repaired it does so by building around you leaving you on the inside .

Reverb

Beardimus wrote: »

It's odd that the whole conversation on cheating is ignored by ZOS. There's no medium to address it.

Is it really so odd? Ignoring cheating, and talk of cheating, is exactly what I expect from them at this point, so I don't find it odd. When their backs are up against the wall they will put out a statement that they don't back with ongoing effort..

So when Jessica says "we have zero tolerance" what she really means is that "we will tolerate it up until your exploiting becomes so blatant and public that we have no choice but to take action, so please don't take things that far."

DoctorESO

Exploiters, please stop your exploits.

Rainingblood

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

its been really easy for a while, dk chains that pull you to target can be used on mage guards in gatehouse to pull you in keep, you can then rappids and jump off the wall and chain yourself inside the inner from the mage guards in that loop. Then all it takes is clearing guards inside, sieging the inner door to about 90% from the inside and flags will flip bam 1-2 ppl can take virtually any keep

Not true. What you are describing doesn't work. Chains don't do crap on even the smallest incline, let alone up a wall. If you've actually witnessed this and aren't using hearsay, then the person is cheating somehow. It's not the ability.

fastolfv_ESO

ive kicked 2 people from my guild that did it way too many times recently and were proud of it, they did this asmuch as they could while in group and thought it was hilarious. They go under the guards on the outer to chain up which makes even less sense but thats how its working

TazESO

VaranisArano wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Well. The inner should just be protected by a instagib magic wall like the outer area in vWGT or the quest where you fight Mannimarco in the Worm Castle. The wall dissolves when the inner reaches 30% or so.

Except that its a valid tactic to stealth out in the inner keep as the enemy is capturing it and to sneak around. If the enemy doesn't search the keep properly, you get to sneak around, gank people, and try to recapture the keep.

That's a valid tactic. You were already there when the keep flipped and the enemy didn't kill you.

Chaining yourself up on the walls is something that ZOS has said is an exploit.

Agreed

Edited to add: and very fun to do on stealthy Khajiit gankblade. Or so I hear, from friends.

Minalan

Nifty2g wrote: »

The people putting up counter siege and oils, then trying to play the objectives do care. They shouldn’t have enemy players in melee range attacking them if the outer keep wall isn’t breached. Period.

dotme

Rainingblood wrote: »

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

its been really easy for a while, dk chains that pull you to target can be used on mage guards in gatehouse to pull you in keep, you can then rappids and jump off the wall and chain yourself inside the inner from the mage guards in that loop. Then all it takes is clearing guards inside, sieging the inner door to about 90% from the inside and flags will flip bam 1-2 ppl can take virtually any keep

Not true. What you are describing doesn't work. Chains don't do crap on even the smallest incline, let alone up a wall. If you've actually witnessed this and aren't using hearsay, then the person is cheating somehow. It's not the ability.

Actually, it is the ability. It's broken. I have video evidence, which has already been furnished to @ZOS_GinaBruno

I assume it's bad form/against rules to link to it in the forums, so I won't. But I assure you it's possible, and I even slowed the video down 80% so you can see it happen frame-by-frame. I was hoping it would have been fixed with the new DLC (which we don't yet have on console). Really disappointing if it isn't.

geonsocal

"helped" some nightblade get into BRK last night...

they ambushed me right through the front door...

kinda noticed them over my shoulder - when I turned to fight them they were off like a bolt to make a quick right to head to the towers stairs to try to get out...

big difference between some tanky dragonknight getting inside versus some squishy nightblade - although, some nightblades aren't all the squishy and can do a fair bit of killing once inside...

killimandrosb16_ESO

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

ive kicked 2 people from my guild that did it way too many times recently and were proud of it, they did this asmuch as they could while in group and thought it was hilarious. They go under the guards on the outer to chain up which makes even less sense but thats how its working

this exactly is how its done and its happening more and more often. I normally give the exploiters a chance or two to jump down before reporting it, but its time Zenimax takes a stance on this, is it ok or is it not. Thats the question. When I ask someone to stop doing it and get down until gate is open, I always get a *** off reply indicating they think its within the rules. Its your game Zenimax, what are you going to do about it. I still see the same abusers doing it on every keep now

VaranisArano

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

ive kicked 2 people from my guild that did it way too many times recently and were proud of it, they did this asmuch as they could while in group and thought it was hilarious. They go under the guards on the outer to chain up which makes even less sense but thats how its working

this exactly is how its done and its happening more and more often. I normally give the exploiters a chance or two to jump down before reporting it, but its time Zenimax takes a stance on this, is it ok or is it not. Thats the question. When I ask someone to stop doing it and get down until gate is open, I always get a *** off reply indicating they think its within the rules. Its your game Zenimax, what are you going to do about it. I still see the same abusers doing it on every keep now

@killimandrosb16_ESO , ZOS already said that chaining yourself into keeps is an exploit here, if you need a reference for reporting it. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/278031/cyrodiil-cheating-exploiting-you/p1

I'm bolding a portion for emphasis.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Lately, we’ve seen a lot of questions about what we consider cheating and/or exploiting in ESO. The amount of people using exploits, especially in Cyrodiil, has also been on the rise. Due to this, and our recent efforts to take a stronger stance against exploiting and cheating in ESO, this has become a hotly debated topic within our community. We’d like to help shed some light on what we consider cheating and exploiting and how you can help us curb this behavior.

We would generally frown upon (and potentially take action as a result of) using third party tools or taking an advantage of an in-game mechanic that is not currently working as designed to in any way provide an advantage to your playing abilities. In plain English: if it looks or feels like cheating, then try it out at your own risk. Or better yet, don’t try it at all.

We have a zero tolerance policy for cheating/exploiting/using unapproved third party tools (such as Cheat Engine), so you should also know that even a single instance can lead to a 72-hour suspension, or even a permanent ban, depending on the offense. And in the specific case of Cheat Engine, even the first offense will result in a permanent ban.

There are certain things we’re working on fixing on our end to make this behavior no longer possible, but that does not mean it’s okay to exploit these issues in the meantime.

To summarize, if you are using abilities such as gap closers to do things that are not within the realm of intended design and/or bypassing core game mechanics, such as entering keeps without downing doors and/or walls and getting under the environment (ground, water, etc.), you are exploiting. In short: don’t do it. If we catch you exploiting and/or cheating, even once, it is grounds for disciplinary action up to and including a permanent ban of your game account. If in doubt about whether or not certain actions or activity are considered exploiting, you are welcome to ask us here on the forums.

Thank you all for your cooperation in helping us keep ESO free of cheating and exploiting, and a fun, fair environment for all.

IZZEFlameLash

White wabbit wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

You might but others do and in my opinion those that don't care are likely the ones that have used it

When it was more prolific, he was indeed doing it. He was with some DC streamers too. That right there made me lose respect for them.

Karivaa

Zos doesn’t care about pvp and never has.

Ectheliontnacil

Lmao so many triggered zerglings on this thread!

The many players who seek safety in numbers and cower behind their mighty zerg leaders tend to forget that Cyrodiil is actually a PvP zone. It is war people, chaos has gripped the land and so it is completely immersive and realistic that certain enemies are able to enter a keep without anyone noticing. After years the objective based alliance war system has become stale. I think "exploiting" into keeps, stealing scrolls etc. brings new life to this system. It also gives solo players/small group players an alternative to taking resources and waiting for the enemy hordes to come.

Bottom line is: Cyrodiil should be trolly again. If all you care about is sieging wooden doors and turning flags, while running from actual player v player action, you might as well go questing. I think ZOS should embrace all these so called exploits and funny strategies in order to revive the completely stagnant map. Maybe that way we would finally see some combat that's not always at or in between the six inner keeps...

DoctorESO

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Lmao so many triggered zerglings on this thread!

The many players who seek safety in numbers and cower behind their mighty zerg leaders tend to forget that Cyrodiil is actually a PvP zone. It is war people, chaos has gripped the land and so it is completely immersive and realistic that certain enemies are able to enter a keep without anyone noticing. After years the objective based alliance war system has become stale. I think "exploiting" into keeps, stealing scrolls etc. brings new life to this system. It also gives solo players/small group players an alternative to taking resources and waiting for the enemy hordes to come.

Bottom line is: Cyrodiil should be trolly again. If all you care about is sieging wooden doors and turning flags, while running from actual player v player action, you might as well go questing. I think ZOS should embrace all these so called exploits and funny strategies in order to revive the completely stagnant map. Maybe that way we would finally see some combat that's not always at or in between the six inner keeps...

I'd rather they fix the exploits.

VaranisArano

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Lmao so many triggered zerglings on this thread!

The many players who seek safety in numbers and cower behind their mighty zerg leaders tend to forget that Cyrodiil is actually a PvP zone. It is war people, chaos has gripped the land and so it is completely immersive and realistic that certain enemies are able to enter a keep without anyone noticing. After years the objective based alliance war system has become stale. I think "exploiting" into keeps, stealing scrolls etc. brings new life to this system. It also gives solo players/small group players an alternative to taking resources and waiting for the enemy hordes to come.

Bottom line is: Cyrodiil should be trolly again. If all you care about is sieging wooden doors and turning flags, while running from actual player v player action, you might as well go questing. I think ZOS should embrace all these so called exploits and funny strategies in order to revive the completely stagnant map. Maybe that way we would finally see some combat that's not always at or in between the six inner keeps...

Oddly enough, I think guilds PVDooring back keeps with 20/20 siege does plenty to "see some combat that's not always at or in between the six inner keeps...", but I doubt you see it that way.

And no, I don't agree that you need to exploit in order to make the map interesting again. But then, I also think that if you are in a small group, you can either buy the siege to capture objectives or you can batten off the groups that do. It comes down to whether you want to make fights or feed off the fights of others. If you aren't willing to accept that Cyrodiil was designed for groups of 8 to 24 players and then willing to adjust your gameplay so your smaller group can still make an impact on the map, I'm not terribly surprised you think there's nothing to do but grab a resource and farm PUGs.

White wabbit

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Lmao so many triggered zerglings on this thread!

The many players who seek safety in numbers and cower behind their mighty zerg leaders tend to forget that Cyrodiil is actually a PvP zone. It is war people, chaos has gripped the land and so it is completely immersive and realistic that certain enemies are able to enter a keep without anyone noticing. After years the objective based alliance war system has become stale. I think "exploiting" into keeps, stealing scrolls etc. brings new life to this system. It also gives solo players/small group players an alternative to taking resources and waiting for the enemy hordes to come.

Bottom line is: Cyrodiil should be trolly again. If all you care about is sieging wooden doors and turning flags, while running from actual player v player action, you might as well go questing. I think ZOS should embrace all these so called exploits and funny strategies in order to revive the completely stagnant map. Maybe that way we would finally see some combat that's not always at or in between the six inner keeps...

I'm.guessing that as long as it doesn't effect you any exploit is acceptable , so but just no any exploit be it in PvP or pve should be punished