[PC NA] Why can't AD win?

trustcotraptb14_ESO

Here's a breakdown.

1. Can not defend a keep if their mothers life depended on it.
2. Will leave resources red/blue for hours.
3. Does not have competent leadership from any of their zerg guilds. (DD,TD,DK)
4. Constantly blames "Team Purple", "CE", "Pop cap exploit".
5. Would rather ERP in Zone chat than play the game.
6. Telel has the only group on the map, every single day. /s
7. Does not believe in the use of Forward Camps.

I think that about sums it up. What do you guys think?

Draxys

5- and this is a problem how?

6- this is the only actual reason. If there’s only 1 daily guild group and the leader is self-proclaimed mediocre, that faction is naturally going to be at a disadvantage.

caeliusstarbreaker

Realistically I think it’s 1 part lack of a strong guilds , and from my experience, every 3rd player is a sniper.

enzoisadog

i spam snipe

hehexd

Minno

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Realistically I think it’s 1 part lack of a strong guilds , and from my experience, every 3rd player is a sniper.

My understanding as well.



#yougottadiversify

Vilestride

Honestly I do feel that the AD race options have a part to play. I don't have the numbers on players in cyrodil without the play any race option but I'd bet it's enough to be substantial.

Then you have to consider the type of player that when starting the game would opt to play AD because it has the 2 best stealth races. This kind of player doesn't often have much effect on the map. Nor do they care to.

Draxys

Vilestride wrote: »

Honestly I do feel that the AD race options have a part to play. I don't have the numbers on players in cyrodil without the play any race option but I'd bet it's enough to be substantial.

Then you have to consider the type of player that when starting the game would opt to play AD because it has the 2 best stealth races. This kind of player doesn't often have much effect on the map. Nor do they care to.

This is more of a problem than most people realize, IMO. Whenever Venatus has a group going, which is sadly rarely as of late, I feel like we always have the “Where is the rest of heckin AD?” discussion. The answer is hiding, usually.

TBois

Many long time players could care less about the map. They have been playing the same game and map for 3 years. I know I don't care unless the grp I'm in cares. If I'm running a small grp we go find fights and don't worry about points.

Minalan

trustcotraptb14_ESO wrote: »

[*] Would rather ERP in Zone chat than play the game.

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

every 3rd player is a sniper.

Well, you have two races in AD. Pretty much you have all of the Furries, and the Legolas role players.

Telel

trustcotraptb14_ESO wrote: »

Here's a breakdown.

1. Can not defend a keep from an entire pop bar using only five people their mothers life depended on it.
2. Will leave resources red/blue for hours. since there's only 2 groups at best and theyr'e fighting the sixty man blob that loves PVdoor
3. Does not run massive swarms to take everything like the 'superior' guilds from a certain place
4. Constantly blames zone generals, zone spamming AP mules, and the fact they have 2 bars of pop tofight the faction with a 100+ queue
5. Would rather not get run over by sixty guys while a drama llamas whines about how no one does what he wants.
6. zone generals who demand everyone do everything their way, even as they sit on a wall doing nothing.
7. thinks people should maybe help out and buy some camps or siege if all they do is follow behind others.

I think that about sums it up. What do you guys think?

Khajiit has fixed and will, as they humbly do, not charge their normal fee. After all turning silly elf words into humble khajiit wisdom is a payment all its own.

Incidentally there's a lot even a terrible player can do when they're the only group pushing the map at the time. For example...

https://youtu.be/GaGKUuJBjtc

This one looks forward to you showing them up with your own expertly led AD semi-PUG group that's out and about when the faction is heavily outnumbered and in desperate need of non-zerglings who don't just squeal impotently at the sky.

Mickydanz

Well even if AD are all snipers, does that mean when bow finally comes decent AD win?

Vilestride

Mickydanz wrote: »

Well even if AD are all snipers, does that mean when bow finally comes decent AD win?

No because the kind of person who plays this role in the first place typically wants to be the stealthy guy in the background. They are less inclined to be involved with keep takes or map pushing in the first place.

Nightfall12

I will say that as a dc player I find most open world stealth small groups to be AD. And you can usually find them away from keeps and resources waiting on paths. They seem to have more solo players on AD working on kills rather than objectives, where as it seems the EP small stealth groups will take a resource to lure you there and thats when the hidden group strikes. As far as stealth DC Gank players i wouldn't know because i can see them and really don't question why they are crouching! I just go into sneak mode myself uncase they see something i don't

zyk

I don't buy any of the race theories. In both PVP and PVE, AD has been dominant at different times on different platforms. Considering what players pay for mounts and outfits, I would bet most AvA enthusiasts freed themselves of race limitations long ago. It is the distribution of enthusiasts that dictactes the scoreboard.

It comes down to social dynamics. ESO is played by a huge variety of players. It may span four generations. Within these generations are varying degrees of enthusiasm from the ultra-casual to hardcore.

Yes, all factions have guilds, but not all factions have guilds or scenes attractive to all types of players. This is particularly evident in the small group and duelling scenes where AD is strongly under-represented on PC/NA. When new AD players become enthusiastic about ESO, they may find AD does not have the communities or aspirational guilds they are looking for. This problem feeds itself because many of those players switch factions to join the existing communities that appeal to them.

The current faction dynamics are the result of how the game has evolved socially. We've had some leaders in our community step up and try to help improve competitive parity by switching to AD, but we need more. Not just players of large groups, but also solo, small and medium group players who have a greater impact than I think is recognized.

IZZEFlameLash

AD has no strong guild presences and the numbers to defend as most are just sitting in stealth with their bow. Or they seem to think they can use whatever sets for whatever builds and not get dunked. I mean... we do have a user claiming that their buffed damage of 2.4k or so was strong and if others don't die, it is cheating. So... yeah. We are in great shape here.

DoctorESO

.

Goshua

well..

Can not defend a keep from an entire pop bar using only five people their mothers life depended on it.
Something AD needs to work on for sure

Will leave resources red/blue for hours. since there's only 2 groups at best and theyr'e fighting the sixty man blob that loves PVdoor
After two campaigns of randoms being constantly being farmed by EP/DC groups on their perpetual Continuous Attack circles around AD keeps (those groups that aren't confident in taking the keep but try to troll out as many AP AD as they can )...

..and the the points the enemy gains by holding them is going to be of no consequence to the campaign result (in as little as 2-3 weeks from start)

..some AD can't be arsed witdit anymo.

The rest is probably applies to all factions I assume. Our spies cross faction players/guilds suggest EP has pleasant zone chat, which I'm sure its perhaps a veiled invitation

Mazbt

They need to be better at defending home keeps. It's disheartening to set up on the inner get steamrolled by 50 dc/ep that storm in and there is barely 10 ad pugs around. A lot of trolling in zone as well...I'd gladly name names and shame if I wasn't concerned about my account. not enough action. I really appreciate the leads and other players who re rolled to AD recently.

Ghostbane

trustcotraptb14_ESO wrote: »

Here's a breakdown.

1. Can not defend a keep if their mothers life depended on it.
2. Will leave resources red/blue for hours.
3. Does not have competent leadership from any of their zerg guilds. (DD,TD,DK)
4. Constantly blames "Team Purple", "CE", "Pop cap exploit".
5. Would rather ERP in Zone chat than play the game.
6. Telel has the only group on the map, every single day. /s
7. Does not believe in the use of Forward Camps.

I think that about sums it up. What do you guys think?

Only part of the day AD is like this. Very strong during oceanic ( late night / morning, whatever, timezones ) Just like there are parts of the day EP and DC are similar bad like the points above. (albeit never at the same time)

CaiWenji

trustcotraptb14_ESO wrote: »

Here's a breakdown.

1. Can not defend a keep if their mothers life depended on it.
2. Will leave resources red/blue for hours.
3. Does not have competent leadership from any of their zerg guilds. (DD,TD,DK)
4. Constantly blames "Team Purple", "CE", "Pop cap exploit".
5. Would rather ERP in Zone chat than play the game.
6. Telel has the only group on the map, every single day. /s
7. Does not believe in the use of Forward Camps.

I think that about sums it up. What do you guys think?

Not to constantly blame team purple, but I literally saw a Daggerfall former emperor teaming up with a bunch of Ebonheart pact players. He and reds were sieging the same wall at Alessia in Soltha Sil just now. One red guy even tried to breath of life heal him at one point. I hope its ban-able because boy do I have proof.

efster

Outside of primetime, no AD care about map control. Nobody except guild groups (which are few and far between at that time) shows up to defend even with plenty of notice, so "can't" is not really the word here; "won't" is. Everyone is too busy "defending" Nikel, taking oil baths at Ash FD, or getting farmed on the bridge while the DC pvdoor crew rolls our backline. AD will not leave an actual fight that is happening to go horse simulator to a keep where they're gonna be outnumbered 3 to 1. I hate that they don't try, but I can't really blame 'em.

BaylorCorvette

I started playing this game November of 2016 and have played AD because that's where a couple friends are. I feel like the biggest problem is AD's lack of hardcore, organized PvP guilds. Also, when I run with some of these guilds it seems like there is a lot of down time in between fights or objectives. So much so that my friends and I don't even run with large guilds anymore. Primarily sticking to flipping enemy resources to provoke a fight, sometimes it turns into enjoyable small scale PvP and other times we get wiped by zergs, but at least we're getting a lot of action.

We've been playing the 30 Day campaigns for over a year and AD is just lack luster, there seems to be a severe lack of enthusiasm among our faction. I don't know what other factions zone chat is like, but AD is usually just a sh!t show. Sometimes I think AD likes to fight in zone chat more than Cyrodiil. Anyways, until things changed we've moved to Shor for small scale PvP and so far I've really enjoyed it.

Slick_007

please enlighten us to the current scores in vivec and sotha campaigns.

Laggus

AD could have 1 bar population on and 1 keep left (no scrolls) and you will find pop locked DC and EP guess where? You betcha, both faction stacking at ADs last Keep. Why does this happen is for multiple reasons imo.

Faction flippers. Cross factioners on EP and DC that help each other against AD instead of fight each other.
Last couple of Campaigns, DC PvDoor guild. Flip the map and disappear but the damage is done, AD logs/flip sides.
AD's smaller population is the path of least resistance, literally. Even if we are pop locked we fight both pop locked EP and DC, which those 2 factions rarely appear to do.
Bridge Lemmings that never ever play the map and just endlessly spawn at Alessia to run to their deaths 30 secs later while we lose all of our Keeps.
Lack of group leaders. Still a few that do well on AD, when they are on, but all it takes is one more raid leader on the other sides to make the difference between getting somewhere to getting our asses handed to us. Pure numbers game.
EP in particular enjoy flipping resources to farm pugs at our back Keeps, sucking our pugs into the AP vacuum when they could be assisting the group leaders.
EP will happily send a 12 man halfway across the map, all night long, to tower farm at Roe Farm while we are pushing DC.
DC just seem to faction stack everywhere they go, while often enjoying the lack of a need to defend their back Keeps from EP.
Zone chat trolls from the other factions that seem to only have AD toons to get their jollies off by flaming AD chat.

And you know what, for all our faults, I'd still rather stay AD because of all of the above

TheYKcid

@CaiWenji

When your faction consistently outnumbers BOTH red & blue put together, has an 8k+ score lead over 2nd place, and runs 20 men deep in an emp group wiping the map with no one online to defend—don't be the least bit surprised if the underdog factions join forces against you.

I greatly look forward to working with my comrades in red again in future.

Laggus

TheYKcid wrote: »

@CaiWenji

When your faction consistently outnumbers BOTH red & blue put together, has a 10k score lead over 2nd place, and runs 20+ men deep in an emp group wiping the map with no one online to defend—don't be the least bit surprised if the underdog factions join forces against you.

I greatly look forward to working with my comrades in red again in future.

And so its begins..that slippery slope! This is what has AD Vivec NA PC in the state its in currently. At what point would you consider going back to fighting your "comrades"? I think its too easy to get over friendly with supposed opposing factions and unwritten non engagement rules start to apply.

Karm1cOne

TheYKcid wrote: »

@CaiWenji

When your faction consistently outnumbers BOTH red & blue put together, has an 8k+ score lead over 2nd place, and runs 20 men deep in an emp group wiping the map with no one online to defend—don't be the least bit surprised if the underdog factions join forces against you.

I greatly look forward to working with my comrades in red again in future.

Check the original post again, we are talking NA/PC

Rohamad_Ali

It is one simple word . Resources . Every evaluation DC and EP push for those resource points and that is that . You want to win you have to spread out at points time and grab a bunch .

TheYKcid

Karm1cOne wrote: »

Check the original post again, we are talking NA/PC

As am I. I was replying to someone who specifically mentioned Sotha NA/PC.

Anrose

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

It is one simple word . Resources . Every evaluation DC and EP push for those resource points and that is that . You want to win you have to spread out at points time and grab a bunch .

AD is also full of older players who are, frankly, tired of playing the Resource Roundup every 50 minutes just to get an extra bunch of jewelry that we're not going to use after the campaign ends. We want to go fight players, not resource guards. If the scoring mechanics were different, I think more people would be inclined to play to win.

Rohamad_Ali

Anrose wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

It is one simple word . Resources . Every evaluation DC and EP push for those resource points and that is that . You want to win you have to spread out at points time and grab a bunch .

AD is also full of older players who are, frankly, tired of playing the Resource Roundup every 50 minutes just to get an extra bunch of jewelry that we're not going to use after the campaign ends. We want to go fight players, not resource guards. If the scoring mechanics were different, I think more people would be inclined to play to win.

What ever the reasons this is the culprit . Even when AD controls a majority of keeps , the resource points lost give a lower evaluation score . The OP wanted to know why so this is answering that . Last time We won we carefully sent out teams 10-15 minutes before eval to last second snag lots of resources together . We didn't bother staying and farming at them . I don't believe it is that big of problem to have fun and win campaigns , it just requires a little organization and we all enjoyed winning .