Summons for MagSorc?

SinisterG · February 2018

i'm a new sorcerer and i just got the winged twilight skill. I also have unstable clanfear that i use for tanking mobs and heal. my question is - is it worth two slots to have both the pets up? the clanfear is good for keeping things off of me and emergency heals. he stays alive most of the time and he is generally pretty useful. The twilight however, seems to me to be a damage dealing pet that only does mild(at best) damage with almost no hit points. Does this thing get better as she levels or morphed? what roles do people use this skill for?

Lynx7386 · February 2018

One of the twilight morphs (matriarch) turns her into a pseudo-healer, which can be useful. The other morph increases her damage.

Jim_Pipp · February 2018

Play how you want for now. If you go endgame pve damage dealer you will remorph the clanfear into the scamp for more damage.

If you play with VMA/pug dungeons with stangers/activity finder/trials without teamspeak you will want to use the healing morph of the twilight because you can provide emergency healing really well for yourself and whoever needs it most.

In the end you will be casting damage shields on yourself and your pets so they don't need to be tanky.

SinisterG · February 2018

Thanks Jim. Do players have both pets up in endgame content or is it more common to focus on one pet?

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2018

Pets are very useful on a sorc, especially at low levels. You have correctly hit on the one main draw back is that it does take a lot of bar space. It's hard to fault you for using the clanfear early on, but if you are looking for damage, the other morph is far superior. It will also still grab aggro on things. It acts as an AOE DOT that is very powerful, and a few patches ago, it was arguably the most powerful DPS skill in the game. As to the clanfear, a pocket tank is nice early on, but my guess is you will find very soon that you dont need it unless you are actively trying to solo content that was designed for a group.

At end game, you really see 3 types of DPS on magic sorc.

The first is no-pet. This is your classic force pulse based ranged damage dealer. They can do good damage (people are hitting close to 50k single target in good raids), but they wont beat a magic nightblade running a similiar style of build. These are used mostly because some fights dont really allow for a pet (not a long list), or because some people really just dont like using pets (longer list).

The second is a one-pet build. This was the meta for DPS in this game right up until about the morrowind patch, and you still see them used. If running one pet, it is almost always volatile familiar (other morph of your clanfear). This is sort of a mix-bag. You still have all the draw backs of dealing with one pet, but you will do more damage than the first option, especially from an AOE standpoint.

The third is the double-pet build. This is an excellent option (perhaps the best in the game) if you are looking for high damage from a simple rotation. For example, if someone was brand new to ESO and they said they had 24hours to break 40k on a target dummy for a million bucks, I would point them at this build. The downside is that in bigger 12 man groups, double pets can be overwhelming. You will also have a very narrow build as you really only have 6 skill slots to work with after two pets. The upside is that your rotation is simple, and especially in four man stuff, you can take the healing morph of the twilight and keep yourself and your group alive. You can even go full heals with very little modification to your build.

TLDR: If you like pets, then arguably you should go all in and run two in the current meta. If you dont like pets, but like the ranged magic playstyle, mNB is a better option.

Jim_Pipp · February 2018

SinisterG wrote: »

Thanks Jim. Do players have both pets up in endgame content or is it more common to focus on one pet?

If I recall correctly the best dps potentially available for sorcs (obviously depends on build) is in this order.
Best- one pet, exploding scamp
Second - no pet
Third - scamp and healing twilight.

However, personal preference and play style is most important. I generally prefer to have both pets because it is the easiest playstyle on my old laptop playing through a mobile hotspot - it's just managing dot's and heavy attacks for an easy 30kdps, if one pet dies i don't loose necropotence bonus, and if things go really wrong I have one of the best burst heals in the game.

I cannot count the number of times a group has almost wiped in a vet dungeon, but because of my shields I can rez the tank and heal them back while we save the group.

SinisterG · February 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Pets are very useful on a sorc, especially at low levels. You have correctly hit on the one main draw back is that it does take a lot of bar space. It's hard to fault you for using the clanfear early on, but if you are looking for damage, the other morph is far superior. It will also still grab aggro on things. It acts as an AOE DOT that is very powerful, and a few patches ago, it was arguably the most powerful DPS skill in the game. As to the clanfear, a pocket tank is nice early on, but my guess is you will find very soon that you dont need it unless you are actively trying to solo content that was designed for a group.

At end game, you really see 3 types of DPS on magic sorc.

The first is no-pet. This is your classic force pulse based ranged damage dealer. They can do good damage (people are hitting close to 50k single target in good raids), but they wont beat a magic nightblade running a similiar style of build. These are used mostly because some fights dont really allow for a pet (not a long list), or because some people really just dont like using pets (longer list).

The second is a one-pet build. This was the meta for DPS in this game right up until about the morrowind patch, and you still see them used. If running one pet, it is almost always volatile familiar (other morph of your clanfear). This is sort of a mix-bag. You still have all the draw backs of dealing with one pet, but you will do more damage than the first option, especially from an AOE standpoint.

The third is the double-pet build. This is an excellent option (perhaps the best in the game) if you are looking for high damage from a simple rotation. For example, if someone was brand new to ESO and they said they had 24hours to break 40k on a target dummy for a million bucks, I would point them at this build. The downside is that in bigger 12 man groups, double pets can be overwhelming. You will also have a very narrow build as you really only have 6 skill slots to work with after two pets. The upside is that your rotation is simple, and especially in four man stuff, you can take the healing morph of the twilight and keep yourself and your group alive. You can even go full heals with very little modification to your build.

TLDR: If you like pets, then arguably you should go all in and run two in the current meta. If you dont like pets, but like the ranged magic playstyle, mNB is a better option.

Thank you so much sir. incredibly insightful and precisely the information i was after

SinisterG · February 2018

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

show previous quotes

SinisterG wrote: »

Thanks Jim. Do players have both pets up in endgame content or is it more common to focus on one pet?

If I recall correctly the best dps potentially available for sorcs (obviously depends on build) is in this order.
Best- one pet, exploding scamp
Second - no pet
Third - scamp and healing twilight.

However, personal preference and play style is most important. I generally prefer to have both pets because it is the easiest playstyle on my old laptop playing through a mobile hotspot - it's just managing dot's and heavy attacks for an easy 30kdps, if one pet dies i don't loose necropotence bonus, and if things go really wrong I have one of the best burst heals in the game.

I cannot count the number of times a group has almost wiped in a vet dungeon, but because of my shields I can rez the tank and heal them back while we save the group.

thanks again. i'm not usually one to min/max builds and i don't plan on doing that here. I was just a little concerned about the performance of my pets at low levels compared to some of the other skills i have been using. I'm going to stick with them though as I solo most of the content anyway. I'm sure with a little more playing time i will get the nuances of the skills down

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2018

SinisterG wrote: »

show previous quotes

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

SinisterG wrote: »

Thanks Jim. Do players have both pets up in endgame content or is it more common to focus on one pet?

If I recall correctly the best dps potentially available for sorcs (obviously depends on build) is in this order.
Best- one pet, exploding scamp
Second - no pet
Third - scamp and healing twilight.

However, personal preference and play style is most important. I generally prefer to have both pets because it is the easiest playstyle on my old laptop playing through a mobile hotspot - it's just managing dot's and heavy attacks for an easy 30kdps, if one pet dies i don't loose necropotence bonus, and if things go really wrong I have one of the best burst heals in the game.

I cannot count the number of times a group has almost wiped in a vet dungeon, but because of my shields I can rez the tank and heal them back while we save the group.

thanks again. i'm not usually one to min/max builds and i don't plan on doing that here. I was just a little concerned about the performance of my pets at low levels compared to some of the other skills i have been using. I'm going to stick with them though as I solo most of the content anyway. I'm sure with a little more playing time i will get the nuances of the skills down

If you are looking for some basic solo just about anything bars, here you go. These will also work as a damage dealer through really any 4 man content. There are certainly changes to be made in order to min/max your damage, but you can take this build right through some of the more difficult solo/4man content including veteran Maelstrom Arena.

Front Bar (lighting Staff): Volatile Familiar, Twilight Matriarch, Hardened Ward, Daedric Prey (flex), Inner Light(flex), Destro Ultimate

Back Bar (lighting Staff): Volatile Familiar, Twilight Matriarch, Liquid Lighting, Elemental Blockade, Power Surge, Really any ultimate.

-Again these are not min maxed for damage, but they are a great balance of damage, survival, and low cost (dont need potions).

A more min/maxed version looks like this:

Front Bar (lighting Staff): Volatile Familiar, Twilight Matriarch, Destructive Clench, Daedric Prey (flex), Inner Light/Mages Wrath(flex), Shooting Star (meteor)

Back Bar (lighting Staff): Volatile Familiar, Twilight Matriarch, Liquid Lighting, Elemental Blockade, Hardened Ward, Destro Ultimate.

-This build wont have the built in major sorcery/prophecy, so it requires spell power potions. It also has less built in self heals, so you are a little squishier. It can easily hit 40k Single Target if you have BIS gear and Max CP.

A few other things to consider:

First, your primary damage comes from really 4 things. You have two powerful ground AOEs in liquid lighting (class skill) and elemental blockade (destro staff line). Get in the habit of putting these both down and the same time and the same place (LL and then EB in that order). These should be reapplied about every 10 seconds. If you go to early, you are wasting resources and foregoing other skills, if you go to late, you are leaving a lot of damage on the table. Do what you can to try to funnel your enemies into these skills. Spamming a DOT (damage over time) does not increase your DPS. Cast them and let them run their full duration.

The next big damage component is your Volatile familiar. This is an 8 second AOE DOT. If you havent figured it out yet, your pets will attack anything you do a full heavy attack on, or you can use commands to summon and recall them. You need to learn to control your pets if you want to play them in a group. As a general rule, you can cast this pre-fight, and then get in the habit of casting it right after you cast your liquid lighting and blockade. Again, dont spam this skill. Cast it and let it run.

I have the skill Daedric Prey on her as well. This is absolutely on your bar in a min/max situation, but if you are looking for a flex spot early on, this is probably what I would drop. The damage from the skill is not bad, but the real reason you run it is to boost your pet damage on single target fights. You could also put clench here if you wanted to run meteor on your front bar and the destro ult on your back bar.

The Last big damage component is your heavy attacks, and as a sorc, you want this to be with a lighting staff for two reasons. First, you get all kinds of boosts to lighting damage from your class passives, and second, a heavy attack does AOE damage on top of single target damage once you put the skill points into the passives. You should generally be able to get off 2 full heavy attacks between reapplying your DOTs. Also remember that heavy attacks return magic. If you do 2 per rotation, you will never run out of resources.

Perhaps the simpliest rotation in the game looks like this: Liquid Lighting, Elemental Blockade, Bar Swap, Heavy attack Familiar, Heavy attack Daedric prey, bar swap, repeat. This rotation can be expanded upon as it will be a touch short (you have room for at least one more skill), but it will get the job done and you should be very hard to kill as long as you have power surge and a shield. Early on, you could even just add your shield into the rotation, as you get more experienced, you will find it is overkill. At end game, add clench into the rotation. If you can, try to put light attacks in front of every skill except the 2 you heavy attack with.

A few other skills to talk about.

Power Surge is perhaps your most powerful class skill early on and when solo. It is both a great self heal and it gives you major sorcery which is a big damage increase. This skill only needs cast once about every 30 seconds (no benefits to spamming) but as long as this skill is up, you are hard to kill. At true end game, you will get heals from a healer, and major sorcery from your potions, but you can easily get both from the press of a button when solo, in a group with a poor healer, or when you dont want the expense of potions.

Inner Light This is a skill we dont really cast, but we just slot it for the extra magic and the major Prophecy (spell crit). This could also be a flex if you are running potions, perhaps in order to slot your execute or another damage skill like Destructive clench. Every magic damage dealer should have major sorcery and major prophecy at all times. In true end game, you get both from potions. Sorcs, can do it without potions with a combo of Power surge and Inner light.

Hardened Ward Every magic damage dealer should run a shield, and sorcs have the best one. You should rarely need to spam it, but they are extremely powerful. Remember, a shield is much more effective when you cast it before you are about to take damage than immediately after.

Twilight Matriarch This is the healing morph, but its honestly the better morph for most content. The damage morph really doesnt do a lot extra for you, and the burst heal from the matriarch is amazing. You only need to cast this skill if you or someone in your group is in trouble. It is a wonderful oh Crap button, but casting it doesnt do anything for more damage. It will DPS on its own whether you cast it or not.

Ultimates: The most classic combo of ultimates you see is meteor (shooting star) on the front bar and the destro ult on the back bar. The catch is that you need a destro skill on both bars if you want to take advantage of the passives (which you do). That is why we front bar the destro ultimate in the first setup because you dont have a skill like clench or force pulse.

SinisterG · February 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

show previous quotes

SinisterG wrote: »

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

SinisterG wrote: »

Thanks Jim. Do players have both pets up in endgame content or is it more common to focus on one pet?

If I recall correctly the best dps potentially available for sorcs (obviously depends on build) is in this order.
Best- one pet, exploding scamp
Second - no pet
Third - scamp and healing twilight.

However, personal preference and play style is most important. I generally prefer to have both pets because it is the easiest playstyle on my old laptop playing through a mobile hotspot - it's just managing dot's and heavy attacks for an easy 30kdps, if one pet dies i don't loose necropotence bonus, and if things go really wrong I have one of the best burst heals in the game.

I cannot count the number of times a group has almost wiped in a vet dungeon, but because of my shields I can rez the tank and heal them back while we save the group.

thanks again. i'm not usually one to min/max builds and i don't plan on doing that here. I was just a little concerned about the performance of my pets at low levels compared to some of the other skills i have been using. I'm going to stick with them though as I solo most of the content anyway. I'm sure with a little more playing time i will get the nuances of the skills down

If you are looking for some basic solo just about anything bars, here you go. These will also work as a damage dealer through really any 4 man content. There are certainly changes to be made in order to min/max your damage, but you can take this build right through some of the more difficult solo/4man content including veteran Maelstrom Arena.

Front Bar (lighting Staff): Volatile Familiar, Twilight Matriarch, Hardened Ward, Daedric Prey (flex), Inner Light(flex), Destro Ultimate

Back Bar (lighting Staff): Volatile Familiar, Twilight Matriarch, Liquid Lighting, Elemental Blockade, Power Surge, Really any ultimate.

-Again these are not min maxed for damage, but they are a great balance of damage, survival, and low cost (dont need potions).

A more min/maxed version looks like this:

Front Bar (lighting Staff): Volatile Familiar, Twilight Matriarch, Destructive Clench, Daedric Prey (flex), Inner Light/Mages Wrath(flex), Shooting Star (meteor)

Back Bar (lighting Staff): Volatile Familiar, Twilight Matriarch, Liquid Lighting, Elemental Blockade, Hardened Ward, Destro Ultimate.

-This build wont have the built in major sorcery/prophecy, so it requires spell power potions. It also has less built in self heals, so you are a little squishier. It can easily hit 40k Single Target if you have BIS gear and Max CP.

A few other things to consider:

First, your primary damage comes from really 4 things. You have two powerful ground AOEs in liquid lighting (class skill) and elemental blockade (destro staff line). Get in the habit of putting these both down and the same time and the same place (LL and then EB in that order). These should be reapplied about every 10 seconds. If you go to early, you are wasting resources and foregoing other skills, if you go to late, you are leaving a lot of damage on the table. Do what you can to try to funnel your enemies into these skills. Spamming a DOT (damage over time) does not increase your DPS. Cast them and let them run their full duration.

The next big damage component is your Volatile familiar. This is an 8 second AOE DOT. If you havent figured it out yet, your pets will attack anything you do a full heavy attack on, or you can use commands to summon and recall them. You need to learn to control your pets if you want to play them in a group. As a general rule, you can cast this pre-fight, and then get in the habit of casting it right after you cast your liquid lighting and blockade. Again, dont spam this skill. Cast it and let it run.

I have the skill Daedric Prey on her as well. This is absolutely on your bar in a min/max situation, but if you are looking for a flex spot early on, this is probably what I would drop. The damage from the skill is not bad, but the real reason you run it is to boost your pet damage on single target fights. You could also put clench here if you wanted to run meteor on your front bar and the destro ult on your back bar.

The Last big damage component is your heavy attacks, and as a sorc, you want this to be with a lighting staff for two reasons. First, you get all kinds of boosts to lighting damage from your class passives, and second, a heavy attack does AOE damage on top of single target damage once you put the skill points into the passives. You should generally be able to get off 2 full heavy attacks between reapplying your DOTs. Also remember that heavy attacks return magic. If you do 2 per rotation, you will never run out of resources.

Perhaps the simpliest rotation in the game looks like this: Liquid Lighting, Elemental Blockade, Bar Swap, Heavy attack Familiar, Heavy attack Daedric prey, bar swap, repeat. This rotation can be expanded upon as it will be a touch short (you have room for at least one more skill), but it will get the job done and you should be very hard to kill as long as you have power surge and a shield. Early on, you could even just add your shield into the rotation, as you get more experienced, you will find it is overkill. At end game, add clench into the rotation. If you can, try to put light attacks in front of every skill except the 2 you heavy attack with.

A few other skills to talk about.

Power Surge is perhaps your most powerful class skill early on and when solo. It is both a great self heal and it gives you major sorcery which is a big damage increase. This skill only needs cast once about every 30 seconds (no benefits to spamming) but as long as this skill is up, you are hard to kill. At true end game, you will get heals from a healer, and major sorcery from your potions, but you can easily get both from the press of a button when solo, in a group with a poor healer, or when you dont want the expense of potions.

Inner Light This is a skill we dont really cast, but we just slot it for the extra magic and the major Prophecy (spell crit). This could also be a flex if you are running potions, perhaps in order to slot your execute or another damage skill like Destructive clench. Every magic damage dealer should have major sorcery and major prophecy at all times. In true end game, you get both from potions. Sorcs, can do it without potions with a combo of Power surge and Inner light.

Hardened Ward Every magic damage dealer should run a shield, and sorcs have the best one. You should rarely need to spam it, but they are extremely powerful. Remember, a shield is much more effective when you cast it before you are about to take damage than immediately after.

Twilight Matriarch This is the healing morph, but its honestly the better morph for most content. The damage morph really doesnt do a lot extra for you, and the burst heal from the matriarch is amazing. You only need to cast this skill if you or someone in your group is in trouble. It is a wonderful oh Crap button, but casting it doesnt do anything for more damage. It will DPS on its own whether you cast it or not.

Ultimates: The most classic combo of ultimates you see is meteor (shooting star) on the front bar and the destro ult on the back bar. The catch is that you need a destro skill on both bars if you want to take advantage of the passives (which you do). That is why we front bar the destro ultimate in the first setup because you dont have a skill like clench or force pulse.

Man i can't tell you how much i appreciate the info. On a somewhat unrelated note, what are your thoughts on undaunted skills? Specifically tangled webs and the summoned synergy spiders. Do they get the damage buff from daedric prey? i do like to roleplay and some of the skills seem like the classic dark mage/necro abilities

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2018

As a magic damage dealer, the undaunted line is really only useful for the passive. That said, they are VERY useful so get it leveled as soon as you can. The passives are really powerful and are why the vast majority of magic damage dealers run 5 Light, 1 Medium, and 1 Heavy for their armor as it gives you a 6 percent max stat boost across the board.

Webs are not good on a magic class. They used to scale of magic if I remember correctly, and were used as a spammable. But basically anything that mentions poison, disease or physical damage is going to scale off max stamina and weapon damage and not be good on a magic class. As general rule, you want to look for skills that do magic or elemental damage as these will scale off of spell damage and max magic. This is also why you don’t to spread your attributes around. Pick either Magic or Stam and go all in as a DPS. Stam Sorc is fun, but it’s a completely different animal then what we are talking about. I can rant for days on them as well if you would like.

Orbs are used by healers to give resources in coordinated groups, and are very important, but no reason to run it as a DPS or when solo. You CANT activate synergies from your own skills.

Inner fire is the only ranged taunt in this game. Only use this skill if you are the dedicated tank for your group, or you are going to see a boss charge across the screen and one shot you.

Blood alter is one of those highly situational skills. You see mostly see tanks use it in a situation where they might need to hold an area without a lot of support. Again, not really useful on a Damage dealer.

idk · February 2018

The issue is the clanfeat and the healing twilight don't really do much damage so you need to get your damage somewhere else.

The familiar morph does solid AoE damage so things are dying faster. I recently leveled up a second Sorc using the familiar and it went well.

Corpier · February 2018

Great information and all, but here is the most important thing about pets:

If you use pets, CONTROL THEM!

Please, please be aware of what they are attacking and call them back when they should not be attacking anything.

SinisterG · February 2018

Corpier wrote: »

Great information and all, but here is the most important thing about pets:

If you use pets, CONTROL THEM!

Please, please be aware of what they are attacking and call them back when they should not be attacking anything.

how do you call them back if they are attacking something? PS4 player - no tooltips provided mention anything of the sort

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2018

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Controls

Well I have never played console, and I am sitting here in complete amazement right now. According to this site there is no command for that. Is that right? Can any console player confirm this? Not a huge issue in solo play, but no wonder you see so many people on the forums saying their trial groups wont allow pets. This is a huge oversight unless I am missing something.

SinisterG · February 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Controls

Well I have never played console, and I am sitting here in complete amazement right now. According to this site there is no command for that. Is that right? Can any console player confirm this? Not a huge issue in solo play, but no wonder you see so many people on the forums saying their trial groups wont allow pets. This is a huge oversight unless I am missing something.

Yeah i'm fairly certain there is no command for that. they kinda just do what they want. you can use there special abilities by pressing the assigned skill button after they have been summoned but that is about it as far as "controlling" them. I don't even think i can unsummon them unless i switch to a weapon bar that they are not on.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2018

SinisterG wrote: »

show previous quotes

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Controls

Well I have never played console, and I am sitting here in complete amazement right now. According to this site there is no command for that. Is that right? Can any console player confirm this? Not a huge issue in solo play, but no wonder you see so many people on the forums saying their trial groups wont allow pets. This is a huge oversight unless I am missing something.

Yeah i'm fairly certain there is no command for that. they kinda just do what they want. you can use there special abilities by pressing the assigned skill button after they have been summoned but that is about it as far as "controlling" them. I don't even think i can unsummon them unless i switch to a weapon bar that they are not on.

That is frustrating. You can certainly use a heavy attack to send them to a desired target. I suppose if you really wanted a work around, you could run overload as one of your ultimates. If you dont slot the pets on your overload bar, they will disappear when you cast it. Of course, that means you have to recast them when you switch back. I really cant believe there isnt a command for this.

All that said, remember, pets will not aggro a fight on their own. Most of the times that you need to recall pets are when you are doing some sort of speed strat where you run past a lot of mobs and then turn and fight them all at once. Otherwise, i guess recalling pets is not technically required. Still annoying, I am sure.