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best sorc cc
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Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Depends on gear and play style. For me:
- If you don't have Master's Inferno staff, you'll be better off using Force Shock for damage and Rune Cage for CC.
- If you have the Master's staff, I reckon Flame Reach + a spare skill slot is better than Force Shock + Rune Cage.
- If you have a Perfected Asylum Inferno Staff (which means high uptime on burning, maim and vulnerability) then I'd go Force Shock and Rune Cage instead of Flame Reach, even if I had a Master's Inferno staff.
Edited by Maulkin on February 2, 2018 5:26PMEU | PC | AD1 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think flame reach is less frustrating to land since you can be at further range. But it is dodgeable. It also knocks your opponent back, which could be useful if you are trying to maintain range or knock someone off a keep/wall.0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Rune cage is clunky to use and really expensive now, but it can’t be dodged or blocked.
Wardens and DK’s can make themselves mostly immune to destructive reach, but it’s quick and spammable DPS.
They both have their downsides. Hold your nose and pick one after trying them both out.0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think flame reach is less frustrating to land since you can be at further range. But it is dodgeable. It also knocks your opponent back, which could be useful if you are trying to maintain range or knock someone off a keep/wall.
And blockable ...and reflectable. Which means against a S&B blocking opponent like a MagDK or MagPlar, you have no CC. And against a MagDK with wings your only damage is Curse every 3.5".
There's quite a few disadvantages to Flame Reach. Without Master's Staff it's hardly worth it.EU | PC | AD0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Rune cage is clunky to use and really expensive now, but it can’t be dodged or blocked.
Wardens and DK’s can make themselves mostly immune to destructive reach, but it’s quick and spammable DPS.
They both have their downsides. Hold your nose and pick one after trying them both out.
It's definitely not spammable if you don't have a Master's staff. Costs about as much as Rune Cage if I recall correctly.EU | PC | AD0 -
Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
✭my rune cage cost a few hundred less to be fair .
being unblockabale and undodgeable is what's appealing to me and range is still pretty decent.
I don't use a spammable so just set up burst then cc for everything to land at once0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭my rune cage cost a few hundred less to be fair .
being unblockabale and undodgeable is what's appealing to me and range is still pretty decent.
I don't use a spammable so just set up burst then cc for everything to land at once
That's right, I checked without Master's staff and on 5-1-1 setup Rune Cage costs 3050 and Flame Reach 3300. They also have the same range, 28m.
If you're not using a spammable you're better off not using destro altogether and going for DW perhaps. You will have higher burst. Although I believe that a fire staff with light attack weaving, ancient knowledge passive and the chance to proc status effects... will always be higher total pressure on a target.
Anyhow, if you want to make sure a burst rotation works, Rune Cage is far more reliable. So long as the target is not CC immune you can land a Curse, Meteor, Frag combo with near 100% certainty.EU | PC | AD0 -
Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
✭yea I like ancient knowledge and heavy/light att weaving with flame staff adds bit extra at range which dw doesn't allow0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Both.
You need the long burst combo of Curse-Fury-Reach-Frag to kill targets with high HP pools or shields. Rune Cage deals no damage and is a detriment to your burst damage.
But enemies that mitigate damage with blocking or dodging will just avoid Reach CC and never be at a big risk. This is where you need Rune Cage. It also enables the guaranteed Curse-Fury-Meteor-Cage-Frag combo, which is the highest guaranteed burst available to sorcs, despite Cage not dealing damage.
I'd say Reach is more important, you can CC with Streak through dodge and you can streak away from block tanks. You can also use Dawnbreaker instead of Meteor.
But you lose options without Rune Cage. You have one flex spot on your bar, and Rune Cage is your most versatile option there. I would recommend versatility over raw stats or counter skills.0 -
Jsmalls✭✭✭✭✭
✭Where do you Sorcs get all these bar slots from. Can't even consider slotting rune cage myself. Curse, magelight, frag, pulse and fury, then hardened Ward, magelight, power surge, harness and streak. And I refuse to give up ANY of those abilities. Magelight is so slept on, gives you 10%, more magicka, and let's you run tri stat pots making stamina management possible with dual stat food.
Plus the day I slot a single target CC that does no damage over streak, an AoE CC, is the day I leave the game. Any decent player is breaking free immediately anyways, and streak is just as good at setting up the curse, fury, meteor, combo and does an extra 3500 damage
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Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't use magelight at all .
my bars are
hardened ward
frag
flame reach/rune cage
fury
curse
db/eye of the flame
harness magika
healing ward
bolt escape
lighting form
surge
negate/ resto ult0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Inner Light increases by damage by 3%. Whoo. And you're double-barring it???
Surge is also obsolete. Spellcrit potions save you three slots, so to say.
Sustain comes from your sets. Pretty much everyone runs a hybrid sustain set, with Shacklebreaker being the favorite.
Streak is close range, doesn't go through block and is very slow to use. Since you point out everyone breaks free immediately, the Streak animation and turning around is not very practical for a combo. And god help you when the terrain is uneven, which it always is outside keeps.2 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Inner Light increases by damage by 3%. Whoo. And you're double-barring it???
Surge is also obsolete. Spellcrit potions save you three slots, so to say.
Sustain comes from your sets. Pretty much everyone runs a hybrid sustain set, with Shacklebreaker being the favorite.
Streak is close range, doesn't go through block and is very slow to use. Since you point out everyone breaks free immediately, the Streak animation and turning around is not very practical for a combo. And god help you when the terrain is uneven, which it always is outside keeps.
This is correct from my experience as well. Nobody runs surge anymore due to bar space being limited, especially when you can run spell power pots instead.1 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Inner Light increases by damage by 3%. Whoo. And you're double-barring it???
Surge is also obsolete. Spellcrit potions save you three slots, so to say.
Sustain comes from your sets. Pretty much everyone runs a hybrid sustain set, with Shacklebreaker being the favorite.
Streak is close range, doesn't go through block and is very slow to use. Since you point out everyone breaks free immediately, the Streak animation and turning around is not very practical for a combo. And god help you when the terrain is uneven, which it always is outside keeps.
I’d *love* to use spellcrit pots, but I need immovable because I’m usually running away from a huge horde of terribad idiots, all spamming CC’s. It’s not even funny, 99% of the time I’m bolting off with five, maybe six light spears sticking out of my back and twice as many destructive reach shots following me. If one hits before I reach cover, I’m done.
So instead I do mage light. It reveals hidden, which is needed in almost every fight, or anytime you take a keep. It gives more Max Magicka, which makes the shield bigger, and 3% more damage which is desperately needed on a crappy damage riposte-tato build like mine. Then it gives crit of course, all without chugging a potion every one minute in the game.1 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Inner Light increases by damage by 3%. Whoo. And you're double-barring it???
Surge is also obsolete. Spellcrit potions save you three slots, so to say.
Sustain comes from your sets. Pretty much everyone runs a hybrid sustain set, with Shacklebreaker being the favorite.
Streak is close range, doesn't go through block and is very slow to use. Since you point out everyone breaks free immediately, the Streak animation and turning around is not very practical for a combo. And god help you when the terrain is uneven, which it always is outside keeps.
This is correct from my experience as well. Nobody runs surge anymore due to bar space being limited, especially when you can run spell power pots instead.
I only single-bar mage light, and I use surge or sometimes degeneration for the empowered frag or reach.
I’ve been running a Riposte-tato build. No damage. Degeneration helps make the terrible damage suck slightly less. Sometimes it takes only a little to push someone over that 20% execute hurdle...0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Inner Light increases by damage by 3%. Whoo. And you're double-barring it???
Surge is also obsolete. Spellcrit potions save you three slots, so to say.
Sustain comes from your sets. Pretty much everyone runs a hybrid sustain set, with Shacklebreaker being the favorite.
Streak is close range, doesn't go through block and is very slow to use. Since you point out everyone breaks free immediately, the Streak animation and turning around is not very practical for a combo. And god help you when the terrain is uneven, which it always is outside keeps.
I’d *love* to use spellcrit pots, but I need immovable because I’m usually running away from a huge horde of terribad idiots, all spamming CC’s. It’s not even funny, 99% of the time I’m bolting off with five, maybe six light spears sticking out of my back and twice as many destructive reach shots following me. If one hits before I reach cover, I’m done.
So instead I do mage light. It reveals hidden, which is needed in almost every fight, or anytime you take a keep. It gives more Max Magicka, which makes the shield bigger, and 3% more damage which is desperately needed on a crappy damage riposte-tato build like mine. Then it gives crit of course, all without chugging a potion every one minute in the game.
Move your lazy butt and get those ingredients, bro!
xP
Otherwise you'll never be at 100% performance.
3% do absolutely nothing.
If you need Immo pots, you can have 'em with spellcrit or detection. So Magelight remains obsolete.
It's your choice what to use on your one flex spot, but realize that Magelight is optional, as is Surge. The said argument that you do not have space for a skill like Rune Cage is simply false.0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Inner Light increases by damage by 3%. Whoo. And you're double-barring it???
Surge is also obsolete. Spellcrit potions save you three slots, so to say.
Sustain comes from your sets. Pretty much everyone runs a hybrid sustain set, with Shacklebreaker being the favorite.
Streak is close range, doesn't go through block and is very slow to use. Since you point out everyone breaks free immediately, the Streak animation and turning around is not very practical for a combo. And god help you when the terrain is uneven, which it always is outside keeps.
I’d *love* to use spellcrit pots, but I need immovable because I’m usually running away from a huge horde of terribad idiots, all spamming CC’s. It’s not even funny, 99% of the time I’m bolting off with five, maybe six light spears sticking out of my back and twice as many destructive reach shots following me. If one hits before I reach cover, I’m done.
So instead I do mage light. It reveals hidden, which is needed in almost every fight, or anytime you take a keep. It gives more Max Magicka, which makes the shield bigger, and 3% more damage which is desperately needed on a crappy damage riposte-tato build like mine. Then it gives crit of course, all without chugging a potion every one minute in the game.
Move your lazy butt and get those ingredients, bro!
xP
Otherwise you'll never be at 100% performance.
3% do absolutely nothing.
If you need Immo pots, you can have 'em with spellcrit or detection. So Magelight remains obsolete.
It's your choice what to use on your one flex spot, but realize that Magelight is optional, as is Surge. The said argument that you do not have space for a skill like Rune Cage is simply false.
With riposte you need to use every trick in the book to do any damage. I wont say no to one percent, let alone three since I have about as much spell damage as a typical stamina player. Meanwhile stamina players stack 40K stam, 5K weapon damage and sustain all day with a few heavy attacks. *** you ZOS.
I never said I don’t have room for rune cage, I just said it’s expensive and clunky. Do not like. Do not want. I prefer defensive rune if I can.
I’ll have to give the immovable spell power a try, I usually use the health one now though, mostly because every zergling half-wit is rolling shield breaker out there. Let me tell you how GOOD it feels to heal up fast and then backslap a shieldbreaker into the dirt.Edited by Minalan on February 4, 2018 7:56PM1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The comment on Rune Cage was in response to another poster.
Just to clarify: Immo and SpellCRIT, not POWER. It won't save you Surge/Entropy.
If you're struggling to kill so much you're gasping for 3% damage, then that's all the more reason for you to pick up Cage, so you can get the Meteor combo. It's the highest burst you have available.0 -
Jsmalls✭✭✭✭✭
✭Inner Light increases by damage by 3%. Whoo. And you're double-barring it???
Surge is also obsolete. Spellcrit potions save you three slots, so to say.
Sustain comes from your sets. Pretty much everyone runs a hybrid sustain set, with Shacklebreaker being the favorite.
Streak is close range, doesn't go through block and is very slow to use. Since you point out everyone breaks free immediately, the Streak animation and turning around is not very practical for a combo. And god help you when the terrain is uneven, which it always is outside keeps.
@Lord-Otto
That 3% increase is a long shot, that's 7% more magicka, which at 50k magicka is roughly 3k magicka, equivalent to another 300 spell damage, then let's add using dual stat food over tri stat due to the ability to use tri stat pots over crit pots, that's another 1500~ magicka? So 4500 magicka, that's applying to your shields and your damage, and your overall magicka pool, and a stealth empower. That's a 1 and a half of a Juliano's 5th piece worth of damage. Sleep on it though!
Also Power Surge is a great consistent HoT, and your ONLY means to breaking the Resto staff ball and chain. Yes streak is short range, but the second streak isn't. And most players are on top of you in this game. And I can definitely land a frag as they are breaking free of the streak. I'll give you that it sucks against a perma blocker, but why waste time against a player that is going to do no damage to you, or can indefinitely survive a 1v1 but also hold no chance of killing anyone but a potato.
But it sounds like the difference between running a meta setup and a unique setup honestly.
I'd also never gimp myself with these equip and forget sustain sets, aka lich/seducer whatever. I honestly think sustain is in the hands of the player, and that 1500+ base recovery is never necessary.
To each their own however, Destro/S&B Mag Sorc til the day I stop playing.
And I've toppled the best of the best Mag Sorcs on Xbone, and am known as one of the tankiest Mag Sorcs as well
Edited by Jsmalls on February 5, 2018 12:52PM0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Inner Light increases by damage by 3%. Whoo. And you're double-barring it???
Surge is also obsolete. Spellcrit potions save you three slots, so to say.
Sustain comes from your sets. Pretty much everyone runs a hybrid sustain set, with Shacklebreaker being the favorite.
Streak is close range, doesn't go through block and is very slow to use. Since you point out everyone breaks free immediately, the Streak animation and turning around is not very practical for a combo. And god help you when the terrain is uneven, which it always is outside keeps.
@Lord-Otto
That 3% increase is a long shot, that's 7% more magicka, which at 50k magicka is roughly 3k magicka, equivalent to another 300 spell damage....
That calculation is very wrong off the bat. The 3% does not apply to the max, it applies to the base, of which you're at best sitting at ~40k with necropotence proc'ed before all the passives (CPs, Altmer, Mage's Guild, Undaunted) carry you to over 50k.
And that's if you're running Necropotence. Cause otherwise your base is around ~35k including the food buff, mage Mundus and sets.
Edited by Maulkin on February 5, 2018 1:04PMEU | PC | AD1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Personally I prefer running Surge and Inner Light too, as the former is better than Degeneration because you can buff without target and the latter is nice for hunting down NBs.
I recognize Spell Power pots do greatly increase bar spot flexibility, but I’ve found that I’m a) way too cheap to chug pots on cooldown and b) either I get bursted down quicky or I kill my opponent anyway. Hence I mostly just run Standard dropped pots instead save for special situations.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
runningtings✭✭✭I can't bring myself to spend a fortune on pots.
I just use Immov pots for escape purposes, doesn't feel right to me if you need to rely on them.// DC / EU PC// Garión<< The Black >>0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Inner Light increases by damage by 3%. Whoo. And you're double-barring it???
Surge is also obsolete. Spellcrit potions save you three slots, so to say.
Sustain comes from your sets. Pretty much everyone runs a hybrid sustain set, with Shacklebreaker being the favorite.
Streak is close range, doesn't go through block and is very slow to use. Since you point out everyone breaks free immediately, the Streak animation and turning around is not very practical for a combo. And god help you when the terrain is uneven, which it always is outside keeps.
@Lord-Otto
That 3% increase is a long shot, that's 7% more magicka, which at 50k magicka is roughly 3k magicka, equivalent to another 300 spell damage....
That calculation is very wrong off the bat. The 3% does not apply to the max, it applies to the base, of which you're at best sitting at ~40k with necropotence proc'ed before all the passives (CPs, Altmer, Mage's Guild, Undaunted) carry you to over 50k.
And that's if you're running Necropotence. Cause otherwise your base is around ~35k including the food buff, mage Mundus and sets.
My back bar magicka is about 43K. Front bar is over 46.5K, when I run degeneration it’s over 47K. You don’t need 50K magicka to get better than a julianos set worth of damage out of mage light. Just blue food and mage mundus, I’m pretty sure those count toward base.
Mage light is NOT BIS or anything, but slotting it IS making a conscious decision to lose a critical utility like dark exchange, rune cage, or boundless storm to trade off for julianos five piece damage.
If your build has crappy DPS like mine, you grudgingly make the trade and then run the cockroach survivability set piece bonus. If you already have one great damage set? Then it’s probably not worth it because you need the extra skill to survive.Edited by Minalan on February 5, 2018 3:21PM1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭runningtings wrote: »I can't bring myself to spend a fortune on pots.
I just use Immov pots for escape purposes, doesn't feel right to me if you need to rely on them.
The alternative is to give up on the Resto Ult. Resto is a bit of a clutch when [ship] hits the fan, no doubt, but I think you give up too much all things considered.
I prefer to run Overload which gives me something along this line (red cells are overload bar):
Don't get too hung up on the configuration. You can swap the position of Harderned and Curse if you want, or put the Dark Conversion on the Overload bar and take out Power Surge or whatever. That's all a preference thing.
With that build you have:
1) and unblockable/undodgeable ranged CC (Rune Cage) to help sync your Meteor and Curse burst.
2) an area-denial ability (Mines) on the overload bar
3) the ability to buff yourself with Surge and Boundless every 25" or so, by dipping to the overload
4) the ranged burst damage of overload
Also, if you want the Major Prophecy buff you can always resort to spell crit pots (as opposed to spell power pots) which require only 2 alchemy ingredients instead of 3 and cost about half of what normal tri-pots cost.
I think when you put it all together there's a pretty compelling case for dropping Resto Ult. So long as you're adept at utilising the overload bar and don't mess it up getting stuck on the wrong bars etc.
Edited by Maulkin on February 5, 2018 3:42PMEU | PC | AD0 -
Jsmalls✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Maulkin
I was doing the calculation on the fly, but from what @Minalan posted it seems I was pretty accurate if not under shooting it. I also believe set pieces (2x spinner 3x necro 1x monster helm and 1.5x willpower) all apply to the % bonus as well, not positive of course though.
Also the 3% I was mention was the straight damage increase, which I didn't calculate as I don't have the ability to ATM, just think it sounded low.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Mina's got it.
To clarify, Inner Light increases MY damage by 2.7% unbuffed. That's with 42k mag and 2500 spellpower. And the difference gets worse when Continuous and keeps increase spellpower even more.
If you run bistat food, of course you're gonna see a bigger value. You can even slap on Bound Aegis and Necropotence for 61k mag. But this isn't competitive, IMO. 1500 regen is not enough, unless you have some additional trick somewhere to gain regen. Like Lich or poison or absorb magicka glyph. But those come at a cost, so it's a moot point.
You can always replace Surge with alliance pots, they're basically free. Wish you could buy reagents with AP, but whatever. In that vase, Magelight isn't a bad idea.
But, as Deltia said, performance is where it's at. Are you also not golding out your weapons to save gold? Using only blue or green food to save the rare ingredients? Never repairing the ram, never leaving your siege, to save a few AP? I understand PvP is costly in the beginning, but I am talking about end game builds here.
Anecdote, story time. Stay a while, and listen!
=3
I engaged into a brief duel with what I would consider one of, if not THE best mag sorc we have left.
I know his setup, and it has 7% more damage over mine, but at the cost of dropping to 1500 regen (mine's 1800, which I actually consider too low). Of course, thanks to Harness, he wouldn't struggle against another mag sorc.
I could tell he was testing Rune Cage. I was surprised to get stunned before the Meteor hit. Not many players on my server can actually pull of that combo. It didn't kill me, just took off my shields. Guess he hasn't perfected the timing yet. He used the combo twice and only cracked my shields. I used it once and got him to execute range with shields down, but he was a split second faster to get them up before my Fury hit.
Between the Meteors, he was just throwing out Cages randomly, and I was just spamming Reach. It's basically what the mag sorc has come down to, useless outside of ultimate availability.
When I had my second Meteor up, I saw an ally of him incoming and targeting me, so I decided to throw it at the random and withdraw. I'm not a great 1vX'er and sure have my hands full with said mag sorc. Pick your fights, my fellow wizards, pick your fights!
He was using Streak to stun me, but it's Streak - he landed mid-air thanks to Cyro terrain and couldn't follow up with anything. IMO, Streak is by far the most clunky to use skill in Cyrodiil, by far.
So, what do I wanna tell?
I think even 7% damage don't make a difference. Raw stats, paper stats, mean very little in the end. It's how you perform with them.
With lower damage, but a proper combo, I almost had him. The flexibility Rune Cage gave me did pay off. Sure, in that moment I wish I had have a liiittle bit more damage, but I acknowledge that giving up damage for options got me so far in the first place.
Also, there seems to be a bit of a learning curve behind Rune Cage comboing. Even I fail to get all skills to land properly now and then. Maybe you should just test that CC for a week or so.
In the end, my recommendation is to build your character with versatility in mind.
Our specialties got nerfed to the point where they are not potent enough to carry you consistently. And you become very vulnerable in other aspects. Have a bit of defense, mobility, damage and sustain. If you can't specialize enough (unless OL ganking), make sure you're prepared for every situation sufficiently, guys!
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