Templar CC's & Ultimates Severely Underperforming.
Joshlenoir
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For reference, I'm a Magicka Templar main.
It's a very good thing ZoS has addressed issues with Templar scaling, as well as improve the hitbox of jabs. The removal of AoE caps will also be very good with this.
Nerfs to heavy armor, soul assault (On it's own, it is an overpowered skill, but the only thing Templars actually had for a good ultimate), and blocking have made Templars in general a lackluster class.
- We lost our best hard stun (Blazing spear) while getting nothing in return Luminous shards is still not a hard stun, but a weak disorient which is almost immediately removed from burning light, dots, or other AoEs.
- Javelin costs way too much for how little it gives back, costs over 3k stamina or magicka, is blockable, dodgable, and on top of that, hits our opponents outside the range of our jabs. This is less of an issue for stamina Templars since they are more quick on their feet and mobile, but for a class who's main way of moving around is mist form, this is a defensive CC at best. Compare that to something like vampire drain, costs 50% of the magicka of javelin, is undodgable, and gives you minor expedition for 20+ seconds the second it's cast (if you take the morph) and you don't have to hold it. If you animation cancel this ability it gives you almost 0 lag time as well. It holds your opponent in place and can be cast within the range of jabs.
How To Fix Templar CC
- Javelin: Reduce the cost of javelin for both magicka and stamina and increase the damage, this ability is a single target CC that is both blockable and dodgable, it should severely punish enemies that are hit by it. The amount of resources you waste trying to hit a player by it that is either blocking, or dodging is insane, 3 casts is over 10k resources.
Javelin shouldn't hit enemies outside of the range of jabs, that is completely counterintuitive to the entire aspect of the class, the only exception to this is when you're trying to peel people off of you.
- Shards : Blazing spear should continue to do heavy AoE damage as it already does, however luminous shards needs to be a hard CC rather than a disorient. The disorient gets broken almost immediately after it's applied to enemies because any damage removes it, if you have any Aoes on the ground this ability is utterly worthless.
As it stands now, javelin is the only hard stun Templars have, which costs an absurd amount of resources, hits enemies outside of the range of jabs, is blockable, dodgable, and can be reflected back to the caster. This needs to change.
As far as ultimate's go, Crescent and Empowering sweep are underperforming when compared to other classes. Lets run down the list.
DK : Leap, gives you multi target CC and huge damage, and a damage shield if you're magicka. Standard is an AoE major defile, constantly unblockable, undodgable damage, and shifting standard lets you move it around, which is insanely powerful in group fights. It's both a defensive, and an offensive ultimate at the exact same time. Then there is corrosive / magma armor, both weaker compared to the other ultimates but still give offensive and defensive capabilities.
Nightblade: Incap is one of the strongest ultimates if not the strongest single target ultimate in the entire game, low cost, major defile, 20% damage increase, and a long stun if you're stamina, or ultimate gain on kills while slotted if you're magicka. Soul tether is an AoE stun / heal which does very good initial and damage over time, as well as healing over time if you're within range. Soul siphon does no damage, but has insane self and group healing. It gives major vitality, and also has a synergy tied to it for even more healing, on top of that you can cast it while moving and the heal persists.
Warden : Sleet storm: major protection, AoE snare, does not need to be channeled and can be cast while moving. Trees: Operates like soul siphon but healing everyone in the target area rather than around the caster, it can either return ultimate when healing low HP enemies or continues to heal people after they step out of it.
Sorc : to be fair, Sorcs have strong ultimates for magicka, but nothing for stamina. They have Overloads, which is a third ability bar, Atronach, and negate which is an AoE silence + damage or healing. Amazing group utlity
Then you have Templars:
Nova : a weak hitting AoE ultimate which reduces enemy damage and snares but is extremely easy to avoid and get out of. Useless outside of PvE or extremely tight, stacked keep fights where people are grouping up on 1 flag, so basically useless.
Rite Of Passage : This is actually the strongest Templar ultimate which isn't saying much, it heals every person around the caster to basically full health and has a decently long channel time, a very good panic button in group fights to save multiple people at once. The issue with this ultimate is you can't move or use abilities while you're casting it. If your group is trying to move from point A to point B and you use this, you'll ultimately be left behind and die. On top of that, if you're a solo player and you use this skill you're basically giving multiple people the opportunity to swarm around you while you cast it, set up their damage, and blow you up the second your channel ends.
Crescent/Empowering Sweep: This would be an amazing skill if it was comparable to other hard hitting ultimates like leap or incap, but it simply isn't. On a magicka Templar with over 3k spell damage in CP active (elemental expert buffed at 12% and master at arms at over 18%), empowering sweep (magicka morph) has a lower tooltip than dawnbreaker by over 3k, and dawnbrekaer does physical damage and isn't buffed by any other CP outside of master at arms as a magicka templar. Crescent sweep for stamina Templars actually hits very hard. The issue with this (as well as empowering) is the DoT portion is applied to the caster and enemies around the player, rather than the enemies that are hit by said player like how dawnbreaker works. Lastly, crescent sweeps 60% damage buff to enemies in front of the caster has a very small hitbox, so it's hard to know how "in front" someone actually needs to be before you know you'll be getting the extra conditional damage.
How To Fix Templar Ultimates
Nova : Lower the cost of this ultimate so using it isn't at a huge detriment when the enemies you're trying to hit inevitably move outside of it. Another way to make this ultimate more useful is to make one of the morphs mobile, and stick to the caster to allow them to move around to enemies, this will also make Templar in PvP have a way of moving around while buffing their group in tight situations and deterring enemies, rather than being sitting ducks who eventually get overrun and die.
Make this ultimate hit hard, there is no reason destro ultimate should cost less, be mobile, and have a considerably larger tooltip than this class defining ultimate. Stationary ultimate's should punish every single person that chooses to stay inside of it. Nova already reduces damage which is good, but it should have strong offensive capabilities, such as giving minor vulnerability to enemies inside of it, or major defiling enemies, the synergy as it is now works like shackle does for DK's standard, but it should also give a flat, temporary damage or defensive buff to friendly players who activate the synergy, to make the stationary aspect less useless when moving around.
Rite Of Passage : The healing of this ultimate is very powerful, so making it mobile while also keeping the current healing capabilities would make it overperform. To counteract this I would make it work like soul siphon. Give it a shorter range, and only heal the enemies around the caster. let it be a pulsating HoT that moves with the caster and heals friendly targets in a short X radius. Another way to make this ultimate more balanced is reduce the channel time in one morph, but let it give a decent HoT to friendly players that are hit with it as well as the caster after the effect ends. This way Templars have to choose to be stationary if they want to heal all their friends to full health, however if they are mobile and wish to cancel the ability prematurely they still have the ability to heal mobile friendly targets.
Crescent/Empowering Sweep :
- Give both morphs of this ability a breif stun/knockdown on all enemies hit like dawnbreaker, incapacitating strike, and dragon leap.
- Increase the hitbox/range. This ability has much too short of a range to make it pair well with jabs, it should have an equal or greater range/hitbox than jabs so both abilities synergize well.
- Give more offensive utility. Crescent sweep has the right idea, but the small hit box and lack of stun makes it hard to choose over something like dawnbreaker. Empowering sweeps should increase damage done for each enemy hit, rather than decrease damage taken, this would make it much more effective against fighting multiple enemies, and make puncturing sweeps do more damage and healing after it's cast. Both morphs of this ultimate should apply a powerful DoT to each enemy hit, or make the pulsating damage coming from the caster hit much harder and have a larger range.
- Increase the flat damage done by this ability. As already stated above, this ability has a weak tooltip unless you're using crescent sweep and can manage to get enemies directly in front of you, which is hard as is. This ability costs 75 ultimate like incap, but does 50% of the damage incap does, without any of the damage buffs or major defile.
Please let me know your thoughts on how you would improve Templars and make them more useful in PvE and PvP. As it is now they feel like a class who is pigeonholed into being a resto staff / sword and board healer wearing pirate skeleton with reactive and transmutation and nothing else.
I'm not saying magicka Templars can't perform well in PvP as is, but there are very weak aspects of the class which could easily use buffs when compared to other classes, such as passives, abilities. Two thing I won't even bother getting into right now. Templar as a class is fun to play, has nice lore and cool looking abilities and are the cornerstones of most groups (unless you have a warden) when played right. Thank you for reading, let me know your thoughts.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Wrobel
Edited by Joshlenoir on January 30, 2018 12:05AM It's a very good thing ZoS has addressed issues with Templar scaling, as well as improve the hitbox of jabs. The removal of AoE caps will also be very good with this.
Nerfs to heavy armor, soul assault (On it's own, it is an overpowered skill, but the only thing Templars actually had for a good ultimate), and blocking have made Templars in general a lackluster class.
- We lost our best hard stun (Blazing spear) while getting nothing in return Luminous shards is still not a hard stun, but a weak disorient which is almost immediately removed from burning light, dots, or other AoEs.
- Javelin costs way too much for how little it gives back, costs over 3k stamina or magicka, is blockable, dodgable, and on top of that, hits our opponents outside the range of our jabs. This is less of an issue for stamina Templars since they are more quick on their feet and mobile, but for a class who's main way of moving around is mist form, this is a defensive CC at best. Compare that to something like vampire drain, costs 50% of the magicka of javelin, is undodgable, and gives you minor expedition for 20+ seconds the second it's cast (if you take the morph) and you don't have to hold it. If you animation cancel this ability it gives you almost 0 lag time as well. It holds your opponent in place and can be cast within the range of jabs.
How To Fix Templar CC
- Javelin: Reduce the cost of javelin for both magicka and stamina and increase the damage, this ability is a single target CC that is both blockable and dodgable, it should severely punish enemies that are hit by it. The amount of resources you waste trying to hit a player by it that is either blocking, or dodging is insane, 3 casts is over 10k resources.
Javelin shouldn't hit enemies outside of the range of jabs, that is completely counterintuitive to the entire aspect of the class, the only exception to this is when you're trying to peel people off of you.
- Shards : Blazing spear should continue to do heavy AoE damage as it already does, however luminous shards needs to be a hard CC rather than a disorient. The disorient gets broken almost immediately after it's applied to enemies because any damage removes it, if you have any Aoes on the ground this ability is utterly worthless.
As it stands now, javelin is the only hard stun Templars have, which costs an absurd amount of resources, hits enemies outside of the range of jabs, is blockable, dodgable, and can be reflected back to the caster. This needs to change.
As far as ultimate's go, Crescent and Empowering sweep are underperforming when compared to other classes. Lets run down the list.
DK : Leap, gives you multi target CC and huge damage, and a damage shield if you're magicka. Standard is an AoE major defile, constantly unblockable, undodgable damage, and shifting standard lets you move it around, which is insanely powerful in group fights. It's both a defensive, and an offensive ultimate at the exact same time. Then there is corrosive / magma armor, both weaker compared to the other ultimates but still give offensive and defensive capabilities.
Nightblade: Incap is one of the strongest ultimates if not the strongest single target ultimate in the entire game, low cost, major defile, 20% damage increase, and a long stun if you're stamina, or ultimate gain on kills while slotted if you're magicka. Soul tether is an AoE stun / heal which does very good initial and damage over time, as well as healing over time if you're within range. Soul siphon does no damage, but has insane self and group healing. It gives major vitality, and also has a synergy tied to it for even more healing, on top of that you can cast it while moving and the heal persists.
Warden : Sleet storm: major protection, AoE snare, does not need to be channeled and can be cast while moving. Trees: Operates like soul siphon but healing everyone in the target area rather than around the caster, it can either return ultimate when healing low HP enemies or continues to heal people after they step out of it.
Sorc : to be fair, Sorcs have strong ultimates for magicka, but nothing for stamina. They have Overloads, which is a third ability bar, Atronach, and negate which is an AoE silence + damage or healing. Amazing group utlity
Then you have Templars:
Nova : a weak hitting AoE ultimate which reduces enemy damage and snares but is extremely easy to avoid and get out of. Useless outside of PvE or extremely tight, stacked keep fights where people are grouping up on 1 flag, so basically useless.
Rite Of Passage : This is actually the strongest Templar ultimate which isn't saying much, it heals every person around the caster to basically full health and has a decently long channel time, a very good panic button in group fights to save multiple people at once. The issue with this ultimate is you can't move or use abilities while you're casting it. If your group is trying to move from point A to point B and you use this, you'll ultimately be left behind and die. On top of that, if you're a solo player and you use this skill you're basically giving multiple people the opportunity to swarm around you while you cast it, set up their damage, and blow you up the second your channel ends.
Crescent/Empowering Sweep: This would be an amazing skill if it was comparable to other hard hitting ultimates like leap or incap, but it simply isn't. On a magicka Templar with over 3k spell damage in CP active (elemental expert buffed at 12% and master at arms at over 18%), empowering sweep (magicka morph) has a lower tooltip than dawnbreaker by over 3k, and dawnbrekaer does physical damage and isn't buffed by any other CP outside of master at arms as a magicka templar. Crescent sweep for stamina Templars actually hits very hard. The issue with this (as well as empowering) is the DoT portion is applied to the caster and enemies around the player, rather than the enemies that are hit by said player like how dawnbreaker works. Lastly, crescent sweeps 60% damage buff to enemies in front of the caster has a very small hitbox, so it's hard to know how "in front" someone actually needs to be before you know you'll be getting the extra conditional damage.
How To Fix Templar Ultimates
Nova : Lower the cost of this ultimate so using it isn't at a huge detriment when the enemies you're trying to hit inevitably move outside of it. Another way to make this ultimate more useful is to make one of the morphs mobile, and stick to the caster to allow them to move around to enemies, this will also make Templar in PvP have a way of moving around while buffing their group in tight situations and deterring enemies, rather than being sitting ducks who eventually get overrun and die.
Make this ultimate hit hard, there is no reason destro ultimate should cost less, be mobile, and have a considerably larger tooltip than this class defining ultimate. Stationary ultimate's should punish every single person that chooses to stay inside of it. Nova already reduces damage which is good, but it should have strong offensive capabilities, such as giving minor vulnerability to enemies inside of it, or major defiling enemies, the synergy as it is now works like shackle does for DK's standard, but it should also give a flat, temporary damage or defensive buff to friendly players who activate the synergy, to make the stationary aspect less useless when moving around.
Rite Of Passage : The healing of this ultimate is very powerful, so making it mobile while also keeping the current healing capabilities would make it overperform. To counteract this I would make it work like soul siphon. Give it a shorter range, and only heal the enemies around the caster. let it be a pulsating HoT that moves with the caster and heals friendly targets in a short X radius. Another way to make this ultimate more balanced is reduce the channel time in one morph, but let it give a decent HoT to friendly players that are hit with it as well as the caster after the effect ends. This way Templars have to choose to be stationary if they want to heal all their friends to full health, however if they are mobile and wish to cancel the ability prematurely they still have the ability to heal mobile friendly targets.
Crescent/Empowering Sweep :
- Give both morphs of this ability a breif stun/knockdown on all enemies hit like dawnbreaker, incapacitating strike, and dragon leap.
- Increase the hitbox/range. This ability has much too short of a range to make it pair well with jabs, it should have an equal or greater range/hitbox than jabs so both abilities synergize well.
- Give more offensive utility. Crescent sweep has the right idea, but the small hit box and lack of stun makes it hard to choose over something like dawnbreaker. Empowering sweeps should increase damage done for each enemy hit, rather than decrease damage taken, this would make it much more effective against fighting multiple enemies, and make puncturing sweeps do more damage and healing after it's cast. Both morphs of this ultimate should apply a powerful DoT to each enemy hit, or make the pulsating damage coming from the caster hit much harder and have a larger range.
- Increase the flat damage done by this ability. As already stated above, this ability has a weak tooltip unless you're using crescent sweep and can manage to get enemies directly in front of you, which is hard as is. This ability costs 75 ultimate like incap, but does 50% of the damage incap does, without any of the damage buffs or major defile.
Please let me know your thoughts on how you would improve Templars and make them more useful in PvE and PvP. As it is now they feel like a class who is pigeonholed into being a resto staff / sword and board healer wearing pirate skeleton with reactive and transmutation and nothing else.
I'm not saying magicka Templars can't perform well in PvP as is, but there are very weak aspects of the class which could easily use buffs when compared to other classes, such as passives, abilities. Two thing I won't even bother getting into right now. Templar as a class is fun to play, has nice lore and cool looking abilities and are the cornerstones of most groups (unless you have a warden) when played right. Thank you for reading, let me know your thoughts.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Wrobel
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Neoauspex✭✭✭✭✭
✭I want the animation for Nova changed to a big golden house, and then a cartoony wolf blowing it down when it expires.3 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭really good writeup!
I want all your ultimates to choose from, instead of only picking dawnbreaker for everything.
Though I find it funny that empowering sweeps is defensive despite the name suggesting you are making your sweeping more powerful...Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
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Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche2 -
NoFlash✭✭✭This man gets it! The balance between pve and pvp would be difficult thoDaggerfall Covenant
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