hate system - simple or complex

xbobx

I thought about posting this after running a few dungeons.

many moons ago, I played final fantasy 11. The hate system basically works as such. Tank did his thing and the damage dealers and healers had to walk a line not to do too much damage and pull hate, less he die. So in summary, if you were a DD and pulled hate, you were doing the most damage.

Does it work similar to this or are taunts more or less timed to pull hate.

the reason I ask is I see a lot of the same dumbassery in dungeons.

Example, ranged DD or healer that gets hate and then runs around all over the place so that the tank is incapable of getting hate back.

and somewhat similar, people that pull hate and runs around not realizing that they are a *** and keep pulling the boss off all of the ground DOT or away from buffs like The dragonknight ultimate. Because why not.

So is it similar and people as usual being ***, or not quite. The second example I gate is obvious enough.

VaranisArano

So the way aggro (hate) works in this game is that Tanks only have signle-target taunts that last for 15 seconds.

This means that on trash mobs, the tank will not/cannot taunt everything. A good tank will taunt the priority targets, which are things that can one-shot a DPS like two-handed adds or minotaurs for example, but will try to crowd control the rest. For trash mobs, a DPS or healer that gets some aggro from a mob needs to be able to handle it because tanks are not designed to hold all the aggro of the mob - its simply a limitation of the game.

On bosses, the tank will taunt the boss and priority adds, while trying to crowd control the rest. Again, anything else is the problem of the DPS and Healer. The tank needs to hold aggro on the boss, preferrably holding the boss still and tanking all the heavy attacks. The boss also has mechanics focus on people other than the tank! SO DPS and Healers need to pay attention for those mechanics and big AOEs. If the boss has a mechanic that hits the farthest person away, the tank can't do anything about that. A few bosses are untauntable due to mechanics, then the tank switches to DPS mode and everyone carries on. If there are adds that spawn inthe boss fight, most of the time those are the responsibility of the DPS to deal with since the tank is handling the boss - though some DLC dungeons have the tank helping crowd control those adds too.

Now, everyone in game has access to taunts. Those are:
Puncture - One hand and shield
Inner Fire - Undaunted
Ice Staff Heavy Attack with the Trifocus passive - Destruction Staff
Tormentor set - taunt procs on a charge ability

There is no overtaunt ability but there is a taunt immunity. As long as only one person is taunting, that tank can taunt as many times as they want with no problems. However, if a second person taunts the boss, that taunt overrides the first. If the original tank tries to taunt again, the boss becomes immune to taunt for a short period and will continue focusing that second person. Hence the common tank refrain in that situation "You taunt it, you tank it."

So as for what you are seeing, it could be a number of things.
1. The tank is letting taunt lapse. Taunts need to be reapplied every 15 seconds or so. If the tank has aggro and the boss is just doing a mechanic, it should look like the boss is focused on the tank, boss does the mechanic, boss comes back to the tank.
2. A DPS or healer is using a taunt, pulling the boss off of the tank and applying a period of taunt immunity. The tank can't reapply aggro until that window is up and its going to keep happening until the DPS stops using the taunt. (Ice Staff is the biggest offender because most people don't realize that the Tri-focus passive makes the heavy attack a taunt.) As a tank, I know when I've lost aggro to someone else and instantly start looking for people using a taunt ability or weapon.
3. You have a "fake tank" with no taunt. If the boss is switching targets regularly and randomly, or the boss is focusing on a DPS or the healer for long periods of time, you have a fake tank who is not using a taunt to hold boss aggro. If you are healer or DPS and the boss is focusing on you for long periods of time and you know you aren't using a taunt, you've got a fake tank.

TLDR: A tank can't hold aggro on everything due to game design. A tank should be able to hold aggro on the boss. If they can't, its because someone else is using a taunt or they aren't taunting properly.

VaranisArano

I should note that I will never blame a DPS or healer for kiting when the boss aggros on them even though they are pulling the boss away from the ground-based AOEs.

Why not?

Because the tank is supposed to be holding the boss' aggro. The DPS and Healer aren't built for that. If they mistakenly taunted, I'll let them know and they usually are like "Sorry, I didn't know that was a taunt" or it was an accident. But I've also had a tank yell at a DPS for running around when the DPS had the boss' aggro, only to find out at the end of the dungeon that the tank hadn't bothered to slot a taunt. I'm like "You could have solved the whole problem by just doing the job you queued for, jerk."

My healer can tank the boss and keep the group healed while standing in one place, but I shouldn't have to. If the rest of you want the boss held in one place with no kiting, expect that tank to do their job.

xbobx

thanks.

that was detailed.

I had a feeling the hate system was fairly simplistic.