Warden healer rework

Cartasiand00

Warden is without any doubts my favourite class in the game. It's the first time since the release of the game that I want to level a character to max level and discover the so-called world of "end game content". But let's be honest, warden healer is weaker than his rival, the Templar healer. But I thought of two changes that could turn the warden into a good substitute for Templar.

-Fungal growth (burst heal): heals up to 4 allies for XX health and protects them with a ward that lasts for 3 seconds and absorbs XX damage.
>It's not a real burst heal but the ward will give you enough time to bring them back to full health with Healing springs. I think the heal should be 40% of breath of life, and same amount for the ward

-Healing seed: heals allies in the field for XX Health over 8 seconds (stronger heal than Regeneration)
-Morph 1: reduce healing received by enemies by 30% (same as Corrupting Pollen)
-Morph 2: While in the field, allies also gain Major Intellect and Major Endurance, increasing Magicka and Stamina regeneration by 10%.
>A strong heal over time, but which require people to stay in the filed

So what do you think? Could these changes help the warden enter the meta?

Lynx7386

Combined with resto staff abilities I think warden healing is good as is. They offer more in the way of buffs and damage control to allies than Templars do by a long shot.

Cartasiand00

The real issue is burst healing. Fungal growth has a short range and doesn't really work when allies are to close to you

VaranisArano

Templars have superior burst healing options. Wardens don't have the same "Oh ****" button that templars do in Breath of Life.

In my experience, warden healing had more to do with keeping uptime on various heals. I couldn't burst heal someone back to life easily, but I could easily keep someone topped off so they rarely dipped into the danger zone unless they were ridiculously squishy or stood in stupid.

Edited to add: Actually, I forgot that Warden does have a good burst heal - their healing ultimate, the one with the trees. How did I forget that? Because I almost never had to use it. Most of the time, that ultimate just sat on my bar, unused, because it was my "oh ****" button...except that with the constant HOTs and uptime on heals I rarely needed the ultimate unless someone was ridiculously squishy and standing in stupid.

TheNuminous1

after a long hard year of explaining how good warden healers are im tired. tired of explaining and tired to trying to prove points.

wardens are better healers then templars. more buffs. better burst. more tools in the kit. i provide for more damage buffs to my group through sets and ultimate.

if i could have a heal off with someone i would.

I could heal any templar under the table.

Cartasiand00

TheNuminous1 wrote: »

after a long hard year of explaining how good warden healers are im tired. tired of explaining and tired to trying to prove points.

wardens are better healers then templars. more buffs. better burst. more tools in the kit. i provide for more damage buffs to my group through sets and ultimate.

if i could have a heal off with someone i would.

I could heal any templar under the table.

Don't take it wrong, I will never switch my warden for a Templar I so love the feeling with this class. But I would really appreciate some (even little) changes, especially for Fungal growth: when I need to burst heal and everyone is split/running because of aoe or something else, well Fungal is a bit weak and can be a little bugy when people come to close to you in hope of healing. Maybe the answer is just to increase the size/radius of the cone, and add 2meters radius zone around the caster?

Cartasiand00

VaranisArano wrote: »

Templars have superior burst healing options. Wardens don't have the same "Oh ****" button that templars do in Breath of Life.

In my experience, warden healing had more to do with keeping uptime on various heals. I couldn't burst heal someone back to life easily, but I could easily keep someone topped off so they rarely dipped into the danger zone unless they were ridiculously squishy or stood in stupid.

Edited to add: Actually, I forgot that Warden does have a good burst heal - their healing ultimate, the one with the trees. How did I forget that? Because I almost never had to use it. Most of the time, that ultimate just sat on my bar, unused, because it was my "oh ****" button...except that with the constant HOTs and uptime on heals I rarely needed the ultimate unless someone was ridiculously squishy and standing in stupid.

You're right, I keep my mates over 80% hp most of the time. But sometimes burst damage can't be avoided, and if it results in your group to be split, I can really go bad. Let me take an example: the daedric titan(dragon) in Vault of Madness. Boss jump on someone, ends between me and an injured mate. Well since Fungal range is only 20 meters, I have to run through the flames to heal him. And if someone else get injured I have to do a 180° to heal him. And it's really frustrating when you know a templar would have just press on button to heal everyone.
Maybe my will for a warden's rework comes from me being tired to fight against breath of life. It just feels unfair.

KingYogi415

Warden are the best pvp healers because of the aoe heal that gives enemy’s major defile.

Cartasiand00

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Warden are the best pvp healers because of the aoe heal that gives enemy’s major defile.

Yeah I know warden are really good in pvp both as healer and tank. I was more concerned about pve.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

I find ward ally is more then enough of a burst heal for my warden healer.

Tasear

Cartasiand00 wrote: »

Warden is without any doubts my favourite class in the game. It's the first time since the release of the game that I want to level a character to max level and discover the so-called world of "end game content". But let's be honest, warden healer is weaker than his rival, the Templar healer. But I thought of two changes that could turn the warden into a good substitute for Templar.

-Fungal growth (burst heal): heals up to 4 allies for XX health and protects them with a ward that lasts for 3 seconds and absorbs XX damage.
>It's not a real burst heal but the ward will give you enough time to bring them back to full health with Healing springs. I think the heal should be 40% of breath of life, and same amount for the ward

-Healing seed: heals allies in the field for XX Health over 8 seconds (stronger heal than Regeneration)
-Morph 1: reduce healing received by enemies by 30% (same as Corrupting Pollen)
-Morph 2: While in the field, allies also gain Major Intellect and Major Endurance, increasing Magicka and Stamina regeneration by 10%.
>A strong heal over time, but which require people to stay in the filed

So what do you think? Could these changes help the warden enter the meta?

You misunderstanding and think warden is a Templar. To be successful with them you have to be able watch your position.

Fungrowth you want to Nerf it? Heals 6 people and was more then breath of life last recalled.
( Comb with combat prayer to help with range.

Healing seeds is biggest skill heal in game ...just have to postpone it. Then press and use when ready.

Want shield then play do healer.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

@Tasear rushed ceremony heals for more then fungal but only hits one person, fungal is like ~80% of the heal for up to six.

Also budding seeds and healing ritual are nearly the same size heal.

Tasear

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@Tasear rushed ceremony heals for more then fungal but only hits one person, fungal is like ~80% of the heal for up to six.

Also budding seeds and healing ritual are nearly the same size heal.

Yeah it was a guess ( something a little more then combat prayer) , but case in point he or she wants nerfs not buffs as indicated.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Tasear wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@Tasear rushed ceremony heals for more then fungal but only hits one person, fungal is like ~80% of the heal for up to six.

Also budding seeds and healing ritual are nearly the same size heal.

Yeah it was a guess ( something a little more then combat prayer) , but case in point he or she wants nerfs not buffs as indicated.

I didn't mean to actually you.

The only buff for healing seeds I would want is a time extension, like have budding seeds last for 12 second but you can still activate it at anytime in that 12 seconds for the heal. This would make the skill a lot more manageable in pve, I would actually slot it then. For the synergy if nothing else. 6 seconds is just too short.

For the record, combat prayer is about half the heal that rushed ceremony is and about 65% of fungals.

Cartasiand00

Tasear wrote: »

You misunderstanding and think warden is a Templar. To be successful with them you have to be able watch your position.

Fungrowth you want to Nerf it? Heals 6 people and was more then breath of life last recalled.
( Comb with combat prayer to help with range.

Healing seeds is biggest skill heal in game ...just have to postpone it. Then press and use when ready.

Want shield then play do healer.

I absolutely don't want to turn warden into templar. I once tried myself as a Templar healer, but hated the feeling of just being a heal bot. I love the warden toolkit which is not only about healing but also about support. I do understand burst healing is what makes warden and templar different and that's why I didn't suggest a real burst healing spell like breath of life for the warden, but this mix of heal and ward. That way, you still need to use other healing abilities like healing springs or Healing seeds after your "burst heal", so it will be more expensive than breath of life, but (I think) could work.

But let's forget about a warden rework: what do you think of this abilities? Could they be used for a new class with new mechanics?

coplannb16_ESO

only thing that bothers me is targeting on allies (Natures Grasp and Vines). Its is too hard to target the tank (or whoever needs it) in a busy/chaotic situation or mechanic heavy stuff.

beside of that I love my Warden.

idk

Cartasiand00 wrote: »

Warden is without any doubts my favourite class in the game. It's the first time since the release of the game that I want to level a character to max level and discover the so-called world of "end game content". But let's be honest, warden healer is weaker than his rival, the Templar healer. But I thought of two changes that could turn the warden into a good substitute for Templar.

-Fungal growth (burst heal): heals up to 4 allies for XX health and protects them with a ward that lasts for 3 seconds and absorbs XX damage.
>It's not a real burst heal but the ward will give you enough time to bring them back to full health with Healing springs. I think the heal should be 40% of breath of life, and same amount for the ward

-Healing seed: heals allies in the field for XX Health over 8 seconds (stronger heal than Regeneration)
-Morph 1: reduce healing received by enemies by 30% (same as Corrupting Pollen)
-Morph 2: While in the field, allies also gain Major Intellect and Major Endurance, increasing Magicka and Stamina regeneration by 10%.
>A strong heal over time, but which require people to stay in the filed

So what do you think? Could these changes help the warden enter the meta?

First, restricting the heal to only 4 party members makes the heal weaker for trials so the net end effect is Warden is a weaker healer. It is a decent heal as it is.

With healing seed, the group already gets these buffs, well, the one they actually want, from potions so the major buff falls flat at end game making it useless. Also, changing the heal itself to replace healing springs is probably not so great an idea. Zos probably purposely chose to make this heal work different than HS. It would make sense.

GimpyPorcupine

Enchanted Growth, Secluded Grove (either morph) from Green Balance. Healing Ward, Mutagen, Combat Prayer, Panacea (either morph) from Resto staff line. If one of those can't get you through the Oh **** moments, I'm not sure what will.

AngryOldMan

I use Energy Orb on my warden healer to help my group with sustain. In PVP i prefer to play on my warden because of frost cloak, morphed to ice fortress. That give light and medium armour users more resistance. Enhanced growth also gives allies increased magica and stamina regeneration. Healing ward/ward ally is a good oh **** button on any class.

Tasear

Cartasiand00 wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

You misunderstanding and think warden is a Templar. To be successful with them you have to be able watch your position.

Fungrowth you want to Nerf it? Heals 6 people and was more then breath of life last recalled.
( Comb with combat prayer to help with range.

Healing seeds is biggest skill heal in game ...just have to postpone it. Then press and use when ready.

Want shield then play do healer.

I absolutely don't want to turn warden into templar. I once tried myself as a Templar healer, but hated the feeling of just being a heal bot. I love the warden toolkit which is not only about healing but also about support. I do understand burst healing is what makes warden and templar different and that's why I didn't suggest a real burst healing spell like breath of life for the warden, but this mix of heal and ward. That way, you still need to use other healing abilities like healing springs or Healing seeds after your "burst heal", so it will be more expensive than breath of life, but (I think) could work.

But let's forget about a warden rework: what do you think of this abilities? Could they be used for a new class with new mechanics?

I guess I was a bit mean. But it honestly feels too close to poor dk healer toolkit. I would toss them those ideas.

The in it's current state, it quite incredible maybe a bit over powered. That's a subject....I won't speak of anymore.

Too me though sounds like you are having trouble using it. As I said they are quite monsters for support. Just the thing is playstle is hard especially compared to Templar.

I was struggling at first with it too coming from sorc healer. So to be successful with it, you have be aware of your position and have good timing. They do have many burst heals ... just have either position it or predict damage in advance. It's quite fun and expectional once mastered.

P.S
Try dk healer instead

Dakmor_Kavu

The wardens do NOT need more raw healing ability. We already can bury most other class in terms of raw health per second. Budding seeds by itself is disgusting in how much it can heal for (beyond proving more healing with the synergy and having a synergy out nearly 100% of the time for set procs) given that it can hit an unlimited amount of targets or can be a set and forget if not instant cast. We have good emergency heals as well in fungal bloom and combat prayer (it just requires focusing on good positioning).

What a warden NEEDS is more group utility and in particular more unique offensive buffs. Fungal bloom has the regen boost, but this buff can already gotten elsewhere easily enough. Frost cloak is too, but again it's not really unique (and as directly DPS oriented). If we had class abilities to reduce armor, apply magika drain (please dear God zos give vines a morph to apply magckia steal and not health steal. We don't need even more heals) uniquely boost regenerations, boost group spell/weapon damage for a short while, or even some form of stamina steal you would REALLY see the demand/respect for warden healers increase.

The "no smart heal like BOL" is fine, we don't need it. Heck, these days when I get back on my temper I find myself hardly needing to use it after playing warden and being so aware of my position. Since we don't have that safety net though, Zos really could do with giving us warden heals more utility.

Anhedonie

Don't forget that god-awful skill...what was it called? Nature's Embrace or something. Needs a total rework.
Should be a strong HoT without all this gimmicky nonsense.

Steel-256

TEMPLARS FOR THE WIN! Lets face it with the nerf of Major Mending in any class with the exception of a small few seconds like that of the Dragonknight, healing has declined. The game before Morrowind is when it was at its best as far as sustain and abilities.

idk

Dakmor_Kavu wrote: »

The wardens do NOT need more raw healing ability. We already can bury most other class in terms of raw health per second. Budding seeds by itself is disgusting in how much it can heal for (beyond proving more healing with the synergy and having a synergy out nearly 100% of the time for set procs) given that it can hit an unlimited amount of targets or can be a set and forget if not instant cast. We have good emergency heals as well in fungal bloom and combat prayer (it just requires focusing on good positioning).

What a warden NEEDS is more group utility and in particular more unique offensive buffs. Fungal bloom has the regen boost, but this buff can already gotten elsewhere easily enough. Frost cloak is too, but again it's not really unique (and as directly DPS oriented). If we had class abilities to reduce armor, apply magika drain (please dear God zos give vines a morph to apply magckia steal and not health steal. We don't need even more heals) uniquely boost regenerations, boost group spell/weapon damage for a short while, or even some form of stamina steal you would REALLY see the demand/respect for warden healers increase.

The "no smart heal like BOL" is fine, we don't need it. Heck, these days when I get back on my temper I find myself hardly needing to use it after playing warden and being so aware of my position. Since we don't have that safety net though, Zos really could do with giving us warden heals more utility.

Frost cloak is rather unique. It is the only skill I can think of that grants the resistance to others in a mobile fashion. It is beneficial for the healer to apply.

Off the top of my head I can only think of one skill a Templar healer can use to buff dps, PotL. Trying to think of another class that can buff dps, basically it seems to be unique to Templars just as buffing mag and stam regen is unique to Wardens. Unless you are speaking of Wardens being the only class that does not offer a genral buff to the group for using a skill from a specific skill line. But that is not a healer issue, but a general class design issue.

You are certainly correct about Budding Seed. Enchanted Growth is a great heal as well. Have seen a Warden keep the tank up using that instead of the BoL he would have used if on a Templar.

Wardens are a good class to heal on. While I would not want two wardens in the same vet trial, I would take a Templar/Warden combo over a Templar and any of the other 3 classes any day.

VaranisArano

Steel-256 wrote: »

TEMPLARS FOR THE WIN! Lets face it with the nerf of Major Mending in any class with the exception of a small few seconds like that of the Dragonknight, healing has declined. The game before Morrowind is when it was at its best as far as sustain and abilities.

Yep. Yes it was...which then in turn created problems for the devs because those excellent sustain and abilities let trials groups rip through the hardest content ZOS could design and call it easy.

And that's why sustain in particular got nerfed on the PVE side. Players liked it but it caused issues for the devs, so it had to go.

abelsgmx

I have missed a lot Fungal Growth heals, looks like some times just don't work kinda annoying when try to heal that crystal players and this is not all, try heal people with some lag and moving wihout any sense for all the instance

Anhedonie

Warden healer needs a lot of rework...many abilities are ridden with bugs or just clunky as hell. Not satisfying or fun to use.

VaranisArano

That's quite the necro from January...

Tryxus

Anhedonie wrote: »

Warden healer needs a lot of rework...many abilities are ridden with bugs or just clunky as hell. Not satisfying or fun to use.

Not that much work really. I think the most important points are:

- Improving Secluded Grove and morphs
- A rework of the Budding Seeds morph. The instant consumption is a good idea, but it would make the ability a lot nicer if we could better control when to use said consumption
- Maturation passive giving smth other than Minor Toughness, or changing the War Horn HP buff so they stack

Silver_Strider

I just want a longer time on Budding Seeds, 6 seconds is a very short time for any skill but on a delayed heal with a synergy that heals for close to the same amount, I don't see much reason that the delay couldn't be a little longer, especially since I can force the activation of it anyways.

I'd also kill for the cone on Fungal Growth to be wider and Nature's Embrace to fire off faster.