Flame lash nerf

regime211

If were going to continue to nerf Dragonknights into the ground, then please nerf every other class even more, seems like ZOS constantly nerfs dragonknight into the ground.. one of my most favorite classes and it's becoming frustrating to play.

Rohamad_Ali

Just go away . What are you 12 ? Nerf everyone cause you got a nerf ? Everyones jist about had a nerf over the last year . Deal with it .

regime211

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Just go away . What are you 12 ? Nerf everyone cause you got a nerf ? Everyones jist about had a nerf over the last year . Deal with it .

You sound stupid, i play every other class other than a NB, if you don't like the post? Guess what don't reply or click on it. Each class constantly keeps receiving a nerf and it gets ridiculous.

Rohamad_Ali

regime211 wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Just go away . What are you 12 ? Nerf everyone cause you got a nerf ? Everyones jist about had a nerf over the last year . Deal with it .

You sound stupid, i play every other class other than a NB, if you don't like the post? Guess what don't reply or click on it. Each class constantly keeps receiving a nerf and it gets ridiculous.

no your posting stupid . Asking for more nerfs because of a nerf . Thats literaly is stupido . If something or a class needs a nerf then state why exactly . Not because oh well DK got a nerf .. So dumb .

DDuke

The saddest part about this post is that magicka DK isn't even getting a nerf, it's getting a buff against most builds out there.


Being able to Power Lash twice for each Fossilize melts mSorc/NB shields like never before, it helps you stay alive vs Heavy Armor Troll King bleed builds and it no longer consuming Off Balance actually increases your damage after you Power Lashed by 10% with Exploiter passive.


...but let's just all QQ about one aspect of the changes that balances a little the messed up roflstomp match up that is magicka DK vs dodge rollers.


Seriously, if people actually tested things on PTS we wouldn't have [snip] threads like these.

Turelus

You know, this is it. This is the thread which will convince the combat team to do a complete 180.

The informative constructive points it makes just really can't be denied.

Aedaryl

DDuke wrote: »

The saddest part about this post is that magicka DK isn't even getting a nerf, it's getting a buff against most builds out there.


Being able to Power Lash twice for each Fossilize melts mSorc/NB shields like never before, it helps you stay alive vs Heavy Armor Troll King bleed builds and it no longer consuming Off Balance actually increases your damage after you Power Lashed by 10% with Exploiter passive.


...but let's just all QQ about one aspect of the changes that balances a little the messed up roflstomp match up that is magicka DK vs dodge rollers.


Seriously, if people actually tested things on PTS we wouldn't have [snip] threads like these.

This.

Yeah I quoted it instead of just agree because people need to know : MAGICKA DK IS BUFFED IN PVP NEXT PATCH if 3.3.2 goes live.

Datthaw

DDuke wrote: »

The saddest part about this post is that magicka DK isn't even getting a nerf, it's getting a buff against most builds out there.


Being able to Power Lash twice for each Fossilize melts mSorc/NB shields like never before, it helps you stay alive vs Heavy Armor Troll King bleed builds and it no longer consuming Off Balance actually increases your damage after you Power Lashed by 10% with Exploiter passive.


...but let's just all QQ about one aspect of the changes that balances a little the messed up roflstomp match up that is magicka DK vs dodge rollers.


Seriously, if people actually tested things on PTS we wouldn't have [snip] threads like these.

Hmm? I need to reread the patch notes because I thought it was a total nerf myself. Power lash can proc twice in a fossilize? Good grief rip my magblade lol

DDuke

Datthaw wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

The saddest part about this post is that magicka DK isn't even getting a nerf, it's getting a buff against most builds out there.


Being able to Power Lash twice for each Fossilize melts mSorc/NB shields like never before, it helps you stay alive vs Heavy Armor Troll King bleed builds and it no longer consuming Off Balance actually increases your damage after you Power Lashed by 10% with Exploiter passive.


...but let's just all QQ about one aspect of the changes that balances a little the messed up roflstomp match up that is magicka DK vs dodge rollers.


Seriously, if people actually tested things on PTS we wouldn't have [snip] threads like these.

Hmm? I need to reread the patch notes because I thought it was a total nerf myself. Power lash can proc twice in a fossilize? Good grief rip my magblade lol

On Live you can proc Off Balance once every 5s when you hit a CC'd or rooted target and it is consumed when Power Lash is used.

On PTS, there is a cooldown of 3s and you don't consume the Off Balance, meaning you get two Power Lashes for each cast of Fossilize before you need to reapply Off Balance again.


Off Balance in general is also stronger, so having an easy access to it and not having it consumed when you use Power Lash is a big buff as well.

Double resource return means you can Fossilize->Flame Lash to proc it & S&B heavy attack for practically infinite stamina if you're a DK playing a S&B build (not my cup of tea as I play destro/resto on mine but hey, those builds are getting buffed too...).


The only exception is lightning staff build mDKs who could apply Off Balance all the time with WoE, they will have less Power Lashes than on Live.

ThulsaDoomDC

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Just go away . What are you 12 ? Nerf everyone cause you got a nerf ? Everyones jist about had a nerf over the last year . Deal with it .

The frustration comes from nerfing a skill which is our main DPS skill after nerfing battle roar and all of our other passives/skills which make us unique and give us a fair chance in open world PvP.

DDuke

ThulsaDoomDC wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Just go away . What are you 12 ? Nerf everyone cause you got a nerf ? Everyones jist about had a nerf over the last year . Deal with it .

The frustration comes from nerfing a skill which is our main DPS skill after nerfing battle roar and all of our other passives/skills which make us unique and give us a fair chance in open world PvP.

The Battle Roar & Helping Hands passive "nerfs" actually massively boosted mDK stamina sustain. Anyone below 26k stamina pool got a boost in that regard.


What you see as nerf, another mDK player with a different build sees as a buff, and same thing in this update with the Off Balance changes.

ThulsaDoomDC

DDuke wrote: »

ThulsaDoomDC wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Just go away . What are you 12 ? Nerf everyone cause you got a nerf ? Everyones jist about had a nerf over the last year . Deal with it .

The frustration comes from nerfing a skill which is our main DPS skill after nerfing battle roar and all of our other passives/skills which make us unique and give us a fair chance in open world PvP.

The Battle Roar & Helping Hands passive "nerfs" actually massively boosted mDK stamina sustain. Anyone below 26k stamina pool got a boost in that regard.


What you see as nerf, another mDK player with a different build sees as a buff, and same thing in this update with the Off Balance changes.

I agree with you about 50% on that topic. Obviously nerfs/buffs are situationally dependent on builds. I'm a magdk and have always had a stamina pool below 26k. That being said, Stamina is not something I need when I pop an ultimate.

amir412

I dont think magDK should get a buff, and honestly i dont see how this nerf affecting magDKS. I'f youre fighting a potato, then sure, maybe the 3 sec cooldown can be affecting, other than that i dont see it as a big nerf - for PVE it is huge imo.

For the dodgeable change, i think its welcomed. Med armor cannot compete with magDK, it just cant, that should help abit.

EDIT:
@DDuke is this even a freaking nerf??? lols, da ***.

Lava Whip: This ability and its morphs no longer have a cooldown when they can set the enemy target Off Balance. Striking a stunned or immobile enemy will always set them Off Balance.

ak_pvp

amir412 wrote: »

I dont think magDK should get a buff, and honestly i dont see how this nerf affecting magDKS. I'f youre fighting a potato, then sure, maybe the 3 sec cooldown can be affecting, other than that i dont see it as a big nerf - for PVE it is huge imo.

For the dodgeable change, i think its welcomed. Med armor cannot compete with magDK, it just cant, that should help abit.

EDIT:
@DDuke is this even a freaking nerf??? lols, da ***.

Lava Whip: This ability and its morphs no longer have a cooldown when they can set the enemy target Off Balance. Striking a stunned or immobile enemy will always set them Off Balance.

For PvP. All in all its closer to a buff. [Generally] More frequent, a stun (Everyone forgets that) and high exploiter against players. That said I don't like it personally since you get less synergy from interrupts/lightning staff with a hard cooldown. I suppose that is remedied by interrupts stunning. It kills PvE though.

DDuke

amir412 wrote: »

I dont think magDK should get a buff, and honestly i dont see how this nerf affecting magDKS. I'f youre fighting a potato, then sure, maybe the 3 sec cooldown can be affecting, other than that i dont see it as a big nerf - for PVE it is huge imo.

For the dodgeable change, i think its welcomed. Med armor cannot compete with magDK, it just cant, that should help abit.

EDIT:
@DDuke is this even a freaking nerf??? lols, da ***.

Lava Whip: This ability and its morphs no longer have a cooldown when they can set the enemy target Off Balance. Striking a stunned or immobile enemy will always set them Off Balance.

It's not, it's a buff - both on paper & in practice (I've dueled a lot of people on PTS).

• It's a sustain buff vs everyone since you get to use a free skill every 3 seconds instead of every 5-7 seconds.
• It's a survivability buff vs everyone because you still get the Power Lash heal part of the skill even if target dodges the damage. Heal part has also been increased to 4s duration (from 2 seconds) on PTS with doubled tooltip (so healing/second is same as before), though this might be a bug.
• It's a damage buff vs builds that can't afford dodge rolling (block builds/dmg shield builds) as you get to land PLs twice as often. Brutal vs sorcs/mag NBs if you have Chains slotted to guarantee you can always be in melee range when PL is up.
• Vs. Dodge Rollers it's a slight nerf to burst reliability - it's all about out-thinking your opponent and lining up your combo in a manner the opponent doesn't anticipate.
  E.g. while Fossilize->FL->PL is likely to get dodged, Fossilize->FL->Leap->PL isn't.
  Dodge Roll builds still stand no chance against a decent mDK, but they might be able to outplay bad ones & survive (for a while atleast, if you can't burst them you lose the sustain battle by having to dodge roll all those free PLs, break free from Fossilizes etc).
  On PTS I'm still landing the same amount of Power Lashes on average as I do on Live (being able to use the skill twice as often) vs dodge rollers, but the ones they dodge help their survivability which is good considering how ridiculous high dmg mDK is vs dodge rollers atm.

Of course I haven't been able to test open world yet (not an option on PTS), but I suspect mDK will be just fine there as well.

DDuke

ak_pvp wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

I dont think magDK should get a buff, and honestly i dont see how this nerf affecting magDKS. I'f youre fighting a potato, then sure, maybe the 3 sec cooldown can be affecting, other than that i dont see it as a big nerf - for PVE it is huge imo.

For the dodgeable change, i think its welcomed. Med armor cannot compete with magDK, it just cant, that should help abit.

EDIT:
@DDuke is this even a freaking nerf??? lols, da ***.

Lava Whip: This ability and its morphs no longer have a cooldown when they can set the enemy target Off Balance. Striking a stunned or immobile enemy will always set them Off Balance.

For PvP. All in all its closer to a buff. [Generally] More frequent, a stun (Everyone forgets that) and high exploiter against players. That said I don't like it personally since you get less synergy from interrupts/lightning staff with a hard cooldown. I suppose that is remedied by interrupts stunning. It kills PvE though.

The stun is actually very nice and opens up a skill slot if a DK doesn't want to slot Fossilize. You can just Talons->FL & use the PL as the stun (though it consumes Off Balance).

With Fossilize it's a bit harder to get use out of that, you basically have to Flame Lash someone at the very end of the Fossilize root, and then you have 1s at the end of the Off Balance period to use PL for the stun again. Tricky.


Random thought: maybe some creative person will create a stam DK build that uses Tactician CP to set people off balance & then stuns them with the free cost, small dmg & heal over time (on stam build) Power Lash

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Normally all these DK tears would make me laugh, but there are so many now I think we may all drown! If they only knew that this is actually a good change.

regime211

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

regime211 wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Just go away . What are you 12 ? Nerf everyone cause you got a nerf ? Everyones jist about had a nerf over the last year . Deal with it .

You sound stupid, i play every other class other than a NB, if you don't like the post? Guess what don't reply or click on it. Each class constantly keeps receiving a nerf and it gets ridiculous.

no your posting stupid . Asking for more nerfs because of a nerf . Thats literaly is stupido . If something or a class needs a nerf then state why exactly . Not because oh well DK got a nerf .. So dumb .

Shutup

regime211

I'm the best mDK in the game, so I say it's a nerf!

Hutch679

regime211 wrote: »

If were going to continue to nerf Dragonknights into the ground, then please nerf every other class even more, seems like ZOS constantly nerfs dragonknight into the ground.. one of my most favorite classes and it's becoming frustrating to play.

Should nerd dks harder imho. Overperforming in pvp.

regime211

Hutch679 wrote: »

regime211 wrote: »

If were going to continue to nerf Dragonknights into the ground, then please nerf every other class even more, seems like ZOS constantly nerfs dragonknight into the ground.. one of my most favorite classes and it's becoming frustrating to play.

Should nerd dks harder imho. Overperforming in pvp.

Over performing? And now shearing strikes has received a nerf.

HonourXL

mag dk' s are broken. fossilize is unbreakable and you cant dodge whip. everytime i got hit by leap people hit me 2 or 3 times with whip while im in dodge roll animation and some good dks HIT LIKE A TRUCK. i dont know you but you cant win a duel agaist a good mag dk. it is impossible.

Gorrest

DDuke wrote: »

The stun is actually very nice and opens up a skill slot if a DK doesn't want to slot Fossilize. You can just Talons->FL & use the PL as the stun (though it consumes Off Balance).

With Fossilize it's a bit harder to get use out of that, you basically have to Flame Lash someone at the very end of the Fossilize root, and then you have 1s at the end of the Off Balance period to use PL for the stun again. Tricky.


Random thought: maybe some creative person will create a stam DK build that uses Tactician CP to set people off balance & then stuns them with the free cost, small dmg & heal over time (on stam build) Power Lash

Been running Tactician on my Mag DK for the past week. After testing it alot on live and PTS I came to a more of conclusion with it. Its actually really good. On live right now its more of a burst tool as you can dodge roll into PL>Stun>PL>Leap>Whip, but now its more of a sustain tool to keep your health top offed. Somewhat nerfed on the PTS but it should only affect you on more outnumbered fights.

BroanBeast1215

DKs have been top dog for quite some time in pvp. I thinks its about time they get the same treatment the rest of the classes have been receiving for the last few years.

I digress; good magdks will still be good magdks; bad magdks have always been bad magdks

Malibulove

The nerfs were 100% needed, Blockade builds especially could simply spam Power Lashes, making the entire mDK combo unavoidable and nearly free in terms of Magicka. I won't miss those builds going away.

But now that Burning Embers is not guaranteed, Offbalance has a cooldown and Petrify has its reduced range, there's a big void in the mDK kit because many of their intermediate range skills flat out don't work properly.

Unrelenting Grip still sometimes glitches and resets enemies you pull, Empowering Chains still doesn't reliably let you gap-close over some terrain, Dragon Leap can still misfire over some terrain and consume Ultimate, and Reflective scales still does not refresh properly.

The nerf to the core mDK combo would be more palatable if Chains/Grip in particular actually worked 100% of the time to give mDKs an actual opportunity against dodge-roll now that getting within 8m is no guarantee that your Damage will connect or be off cooldown.

Rainingblood

People complaining about how OP mDKs are need a Nerf. If you're getting killed by an mDK, then they are either a very skilled player, or you're really bad.

If mDKs we're so OP there would be a lot more of them running around... The class needs some love. All the QQing is from players who obviously need to figure out that their single setup isn't going to work against every class or build. And throwing a hissy fit on the forums doesn't help fix your problem.

Arkangeloski

This is amazing! And it is a buff bc 95 percent of cyro is vamp, 15% more fire dmg 10% from off balance thats 25% more dmg on top of other buffs that u can stack, and you can land 2 whips thats a ton of dmg if you ask me... and honestly i was expecting this outrage not from dk's but from wardens... no more pugs spamming birds from the back of the zerg lol!! I mean they can but, land very few... bc its dodgeable now

FloppyTouch

It’s only a buff if you can hit people with it

Embers is a nerf

I don’t see buff you can explain it anyway you feel make you feel right @DDuke but this is a nerf for most mdks, not so much the whip but that embers dodge is going to suck.

You say we will preform better against the magic classes like sorcs and nb but we already did just fine against them. This is nothing but another round of buffs to stam classes by nerfing magic that is all.

Zbigb4life

Turelus wrote: »

You know, this is it. This is the thread which will convince the combat team to do a complete 180.

The informative constructive points it makes just really can't be denied.

Do you really think ZOS would listen to 'constructive' points. HAHA you just made my day

Qbiken

TL:DR Regarding Flame-Lash and Off-balance changes.

A buff for PvP and a nerf for PvE.

All the changes made to off-balance made it even stronger for PvP, and not just for magDK´s, but for other classes/setups as well.

regime211

My thing is there are a ton of people in this game, who don't know how to build their toon let alone come up with a good rotation, I truly feel like those complaining about why MagDks should be nerfed are the ones who are having trouble building their toon and their rotation. You cant say flame lash or burning embers is a buff, if they can't land then the skill is pointless.