Tanking - How many adds should you taunt?

Inarre

Just curious because I always thought it was normal to keep taunt on the boss and crowd control/taunt maybe 5-10 more mobs, but i just got voted out of a dungeon because i couldnt taunt all 30 skeletons on the Chamber Guardian (yeah our dps wasnt exactly great)

Wondering if I missed an aoe taunt skill or some meta build or something.

VaranisArano

You taunt the boss and priority adds. Then you crowd control the rest.

VaranisArano

Okay that was the simple answer. There is no AOE taunt, so you have to reserve your single target taunts for the mobs that need it.

The complicated answer goes like this.

Trash mobs: taunt the priority adds. Those are two-handers, and on DLC dungeons, adds like the Minotaurs in Falkreath Hold. basically anything with the potential to one-shot your squishies. Everything else, you want to crowd control. That usually means grabbing their attention at the start of the fight with an aoe, then slowing/locking them down in a group for your DPS to mow down. If you've got DK chains to pull in ranged adds, that's great, otherwise most classes have some sort of crowd control. The DPS should be focused on mowing down adds, but if they take a hit or two here, that's not your problem.

Bosses: taunt the boss, always. Then taunt priority adds. Crowd Control everything else. The DPS should be focusing on their own priority targets and the boss. Many bosses have mechanics that target other people than the tank, so those are not your problem. You keep the boss taunted and keep the big cleave attacks turned away from your party members while you block/bash/interrupt. There are a few bosses that can't be tanked - just keep your buffs/debuffs up and swap to DPS for a bit.

As for your Crypt of Hearts group...
There was nothing you could do. Your job in that situation was to keep the Chamber Guardian taunted and crowd control as many of the skeletons as you could, doing whatever damage you could. Keeping the number of adds manageable in that fight is the job of the DPS and they clearly failed at their job.
Ultimately you can think "I could have crowd controlled a few more, I could have done a little more DPS..." but no. That's a DPS failure, pure and simple.
The only strategy I can think of might have been to draw the boss away from the group so they could clear the adds without the boss, but honestly, I don't think that would have helped if they were depending on you to hold aggro on 30 skeletons.

You did your best and they blamed the wrong person.

Ruckly

5 I think is normal. Taunt lasts 16 seconds? and uses a gcd. You might need to block and shield and get a dot in to proc monster set if you're using a damage based set.

LordGavus

VaranisArano wrote: »

You taunt the boss and priority adds. Then you crowd control the rest.

Pretty much this.

You can't taunt all the adds, so you taunt the boss and any heavy hitters.

If the group was getting overwhelmed with adds it sounds like a dps issue.

Kikke

Everything.

disintegr8

Sounds like the DPS was only single target...... There is no AOE taunt, both skill line taunts are single target - one is close quarter, the other ranged.

You can only get and hold aggro on so many before you start losing aggro and have to 're-apply'. Having 30 skeletons is not a tank problem unless you did something you shouldn't have done which increased how many adds were there.

The only time I 'focus' on taunting adds over bosses is where you need adds up to get the HM achievement - CoH II or BC II final bosses for example.

Apache_Kid

Sounds like you got some real bum DPS. You aren't the first tank to wrongly suffer this fate and you won't be the last. Truly embarrassing if the DPS couldn't melt the skeleton mobs on that boss. Wild stuff.

Inarre

Thanks for the info was worried i missed tanking 101. I will keep this in mind for next dungeons

kikkehs wrote: »

Everything.

How?

ccfeeling

Taunt from BIGGEST to SMALLEST...

Depends on class and resource

DoctorESO

.

DoctorESO

.

VaranisArano

DoctorESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

most classes have some sort of crowd control.

"Most classes" as in not templar?

I guess I should have been more specific...

Every class has access to some sort of crowd control skill, even if its Caltrops from the Alliance War Assault skill line. Its no DK talons, but its something.

Although, since you mention templars, don't they have that one skill that seems to aggro mobs even through walls? Its not a true taunt, but seems pretty effective for grabbing mobs. I think its Ritual of Retribution, but I'm not sure.

Inarre

kikkehs wrote: »

Everything.

DoctorESO wrote: »

Inarre wrote: »

Tanking - How many adds should you taunt?

If you ask the healer without a resto staff or the 3k DPS spamming light bow attacks, they will say you should individually taunt every single add and the group failed because you didn't.

you dont know how ironic this is lol

Ruckly

DoctorESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

most classes have some sort of crowd control.

"Most classes" as in not templar?

Ritual of Retribution has a 30% snare and a huge radius. + Shards while not a CC can proc burning light and both skills can proc Skoria or w/e monster set. If CC is absolutely needed Livewire + wall of elements probably works though destro staff is slow for tanking.

Maura_Neysa

VaranisArano wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

most classes have some sort of crowd control.

"Most classes" as in not templar?

I guess I should have been more specific...

Every class has access to some sort of crowd control skill, even if its Caltrops from the Alliance War Assault skill line. Its no DK talons, but its something.

Although, since you mention templars, don't they have that one skill that seems to aggro mobs even through walls? Its not a true taunt, but seems pretty effective for grabbing mobs. I think its Ritual of Retribution, but I'm not sure.

Ritual of Retribution. 28 meter dot/hot. Used to main Templar tank before finding Warden. There's also Swarm Mothers giving every class Chains

Ruckly wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

most classes have some sort of crowd control.

"Most classes" as in not templar?

Ritual of Retribution has a 30% snare and a huge radius. + Shards while not a CC can proc burning light and both skills can proc Skoria or w/e monster set. If CC is absolutely needed Livewire + wall of elements probably works though destro staff is slow for tanking.

Ritual doesn't slow, Blockade of Frost has 70% and if you only back bar it then you still have Battle Field Mobility on the front. If you don't take Tri Focus, your block always cost stamina. It's what I do on my Warden tank

ccfeeling

I rare to use Swarm mother , I will have a resistance problem when I use it ...
My toon are NB & Sorc tank ...
I think it's ok that just let the dps kill the small or normal mobs asap . I will keep taunt on middle and the big boss .

RavenSworn

You taunt the boss or any other adds that might one shot or basically destroy your group, especially your healer. It's like a choice between the Clannfear or the sorcerer at the back, you taunt the Clannfear and cc the sorc. And I'm not talking about player vs player here. Minotaur, the melee two handers, those guys. If your dps can't kill a clothie, then it's their fault.

malicia

In a fight like that I'll keep hold of the boss, and the DDs sorts out the skellies. I will keep an eye on the healer, though, and if some of them starts focussing the healer I'll try to pull them in or to remote taunt them.

I do pull in more skellies, but that's purely to make the battle a bit faster.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

u should taunt everything...ur a tank and u have 1 job...take hits for the grp...

LadyNalcarya

Inarre wrote: »

Just curious because I always thought it was normal to keep taunt on the boss and crowd control/taunt maybe 5-10 more mobs, but i just got voted out of a dungeon because i couldnt taunt all 30 skeletons on the Chamber Guardian (yeah our dps wasnt exactly great)

Wondering if I missed an aoe taunt skill or some meta build or something.

Well, first of all, having 30 skeletons means that someone couldnt figure out how to break free from fear cc.
Also it seems that your dds didnt have any aoe skills, because those skellys have very low hp and literally melt as soon as they touch ele wall/endless hail/etc .

As for tank's responsibilities, you have to take care of the boss and any heavy-hitting adds (for example, dremora with 2 handers, since they can oneshot dds/healers with wrecking blow). Then you can just cc the rest of the adds.

Aisle9

Inarre wrote: »

Just curious because I always thought it was normal to keep taunt on the boss and crowd control/taunt maybe 5-10 more mobs, but i just got voted out of a dungeon because i couldnt taunt all 30 skeletons on the Chamber Guardian (yeah our dps wasnt exactly great)

Wondering if I missed an aoe taunt skill or some meta build or something.

There are some notable exceptions (e.g. Orgrims in CoS), but, generally, none.

Adds should die from aoes.

If you feel fancy you could pull them into the aoes, maybe CC them, but in an optimal situation the group is stacked enough that it's not even needed, with the exception of the ranged adds.

If the group is spread across the arena (e.g. snipe spammers), or not using aoes at all ... well, that's hardly the tank's fault.

Prof_Bawbag

You see it all. I remember being booted from Falkreath because the tank couldn't taunt for *** and as the healer i was being swarmed by the npcs and Minotaurs, and as such couldn't heal as i was trying to thin out the herd and survive myself.

Also remember some guy attempting to come across as all knowledgable and offer us all advice in vRoM. Telling us all the rock throwers should be left till last when facing trash mobs. Nah, common sense dictates they should be priority in any trash mob. Guy then had the audacity to try and boot me when I told him to pipe down as it was obvious he wasn't giving out advice at all and only making this unnecessarily more difficult with his duff information. Luckily there was another person there that seen through his garbage too. A pugs life is a hard life.

Nestor

Inarre wrote: »

Just curious because I always thought it was normal to keep taunt on the boss and crowd control/taunt maybe 5-10 more mobs, but i just got voted out of a dungeon because i couldnt taunt all 30 skeletons on the Chamber Guardian (yeah our dps wasnt exactly great)

Wondering if I missed an aoe taunt skill or some meta build or something.

Take Solace that they failed with the next Tank that came to replace them.

gabriebe

For the regular vanilla vet dungeons, I usually run as a healer and don't really expect the tank to taunt anything more than the boss. The adds are usually not a problem and it's easy to keep the group healed through it. Tank should soft taunt them while starting the fight, the DPS should be good enough to get rid of them quickly and healer should be good enough to make sure everyone can sustain their damage.

In more challenging content, I expect the tank to taunt and chain the more difficult ones, not everything. Falkreath Hold as one example has several mobs that can one-shot you, so this is where I expect the tank to step up.

DoctorESO

.

VaranisArano

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

u should taunt everything...ur a tank and u have 1 job...take hits for the grp...

ESO tanking doesn't work like that.

The game is specifically designed so that the tank can't taunt everything. We get single target taunts and they only last 15 seconds, so no, that's not even something a tank can do. The tank can grab the priority targets that can one-shot a healer or DPS, but practically speaking no tank can taunt every member of a trash mob. The DPS and healer have to be able to deal with taking a few hits from the less dangerous members of the trash mob. Why else do you think every stam DPS in the game picks up Vigor?

If you are a DPS or healer, you have to be prepared to take some hits. Did I mention that most bosses have a mechanic that specifically targets someone other than the tank? Yeah, I did. Some bosses hit the player that's farthest away, so the snipe spammer is going to get smack hard and there's nothing the tank can do about it. Some bosses have a random fear or other ranged hit that will hit someone other than the tank. And while the tank needs to take all the big cleave attacks, the DPS and healer need to get out of the big AOE attacks on their own.

The tank is not there to take every hit for the group. The tank is there to keep the boss' attention and take the big hits for the group. The DPS and healer still have to remain alert and reactive in combat because the game is designed that way. There will be damage coming their way that they need to avoid.

Kolache

I usually taunt like 4-5 trash mobs per pull and then keep an eye on the group. If someone has more than 1 add on them I'll pull extras off.

I'm not a fan of delicate damage-dealers though--especially if their DPS isn't fantastic. If you aren't going to be able to survive an add or two for a few seconds then your damage better be amazing. Let me rephrase that--if your damage sucks and you die easily then I'm not going to be torn up about letting you die now and then

zaria

gabriebe wrote: »

For the regular vanilla vet dungeons, I usually run as a healer and don't really expect the tank to taunt anything more than the boss. The adds are usually not a problem and it's easy to keep the group healed through it. Tank should soft taunt them while starting the fight, the DPS should be good enough to get rid of them quickly and healer should be good enough to make sure everyone can sustain their damage.

In more challenging content, I expect the tank to taunt and chain the more difficult ones, not everything. Falkreath Hold as one example has several mobs that can one-shot you, so this is where I expect the tank to step up.

This, soft taunt so they go for tank, AoE should be enough to kill them before soft taunt times out,
not sure how much health this mobs have, in large packs they tend to be pretty low health even in vet.

Without AoE you will have problems with this fight.

idk

Simple answer is Zos has stated they designed the game with the intention the tank would not taunt all mobs. They gave every character the ability to deal with some agro. It works just fine.