Maelstrom daggers

CheepsNSalsa

Useful anymore? I have 2x precise daggers I'm trying to find a use for on my pve stamblade. Anyone know a build or rotation where I can use them?

SmellyUnlimited

Only problem with Stamblade is they have such a great attack in Surprise Attack. I’d be interested in seeing a parse though with them. You’d slot rapid strikes over surprise attack, then likely a rapids -> Rending Slash -> rapids -> Trap Beast -> rapids -> Poison Inject etc. To make the most use if it, integrating into your DOT’s is the only way to go. As a NB you don’t ever need to heavy attack, so you can just cast Leeching strikes whenever it hits cool down and drop a light attack right before your next Rapids go around.

To get the best parse, you’ll want to to Caltrops, Arrow Hail, and Relentless Focus (we’ll call Auxiliary abilities), with a light attack between each. You can do your Rapids rotation, then do the auxiliary, keep Leeching up, the. Back to rapids -> single target DOT -> Light Attack -> Rapids -> Single Target DOT ETC.

Perhaps folks will have better rotations based on DOT uptime, but really it’ll be those 3 main ones (Rending, Poison Inject, Rearming Trap) that’ll be your go-to’s. Can’t think of another single-target DOT for Stam to match those. As for ults, Ballista would probably be an excellently ult to link Rapids with as its single target DOT (assuming it works on ults too). Other than that, can’t think of really any other single target DOT ults to utilize; Dawnbreaker is AoE, Rend is AoE, Soul Harvest isn’t a DOT. I’d slot Flawless dawnbreaker mainbsr though to utilize the extra weapon damage, then Rapids -> back bar Ballista when you want to drop it. Or if solo/dungeon, can do Soul Harvest main bar for ultimate gen.

Hope some of this works lol. Very interested to see what you come up with.

CheepsNSalsa

Wow thanks for the information, I'll play around with it.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Rend gets buffed by the set. That is the ulti you ought to use.

Though the problem with cruel flurry daggers is that poison injection consumes the additional weapon damage every tick and does not get buffed. This bug has rendered the cruel Flurry set useless for the better part of a year, even if you could sustain them.

SoLooney

heard they are still bugged

stamplars have biting jabs
stamblades are surprise attack
stam dks have a bunch of dots, dont really have room for a spammable

stam sorcs could def benefit since they dont have a class spammable
stam wardens could prob benefit as well

Azurya

CheepsNSalsa wrote: »

Useful anymore? I have 2x precise daggers I'm trying to find a use for on my pve stamblade. Anyone know a build or rotation where I can use them?

well yes, you can use them to slide cheese, spread butter on a sandwich, otherwise they are good for not anything

AverageJo3Gam3r

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Rend gets buffed by the set. That is the ulti you ought to use.

Though the problem with cruel flurry daggers is that poison injection consumes the additional weapon damage every tick and does not get buffed. This bug has rendered the cruel Flurry set useless for the better part of a year, even if you could sustain them.

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO I've heard this as well. Being on console, it's harder for me to test things like this without a lot of time at a dummy. Do you have a link to a video or post with the data describing the bug?

Lord_Eomer

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Rend gets buffed by the set. That is the ulti you ought to use.

Though the problem with cruel flurry daggers is that poison injection consumes the additional weapon damage every tick and does not get buffed. This bug has rendered the cruel Flurry set useless for the better part of a year, even if you could sustain them.

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO I've heard this as well. Being on console, it's harder for me to test things like this without a lot of time at a dummy. Do you have a link to a video or post with the data describing the bug?

I think this issue has been raised to ZOS many times but nothing is done.

Search in PTS forum and you may get.

pizzaow

Enchantments/poisons will also consume the buff. I was testing this last night, layed down endless hail, swapped used flurry and it was consumed by the hail enchantment. Same problem with light attack weaving. I suppose you _could_ run all weapon damage glyphs, but that's a big DPS loss. This is the biggest problem I see with the set now.

In my testing I also discovered that noxious breath will take advantage of the buff even though it's not single target. Related, Balista does not consume the buff even though it is single target... although technically its an "ultimate", not an "ability".

SmellyUnlimited

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Rend gets buffed by the set. That is the ulti you ought to use.

Though the problem with cruel flurry daggers is that poison injection consumes the additional weapon damage every tick and does not get buffed. This bug has rendered the cruel Flurry set useless for the better part of a year, even if you could sustain them.

Rend isn’t single target.

SmellyUnlimited

pizzaow wrote: »

Enchantments/poisons will also consume the buff. I was testing this last night, layed down endless hail, swapped used flurry and it was consumed by the hail enchantment. Same problem with light attack weaving. I suppose you _could_ run all weapon damage glyphs, but that's a big DPS loss. This is the biggest problem I see with the set now.

In my testing I also discovered that noxious breath will take advantage of the buff even though it's not single target. Related, Balista does not consume the buff even though it is single target... although technically its an "ultimate", not an "ability".

Then these are VERY heavy bugs. The enchantment is “SINGLE target DOT’s.” AoE and the like should get 0 benefit from it (including Rend).

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Rend gets buffed by the set. That is the ulti you ought to use.

Though the problem with cruel flurry daggers is that poison injection consumes the additional weapon damage every tick and does not get buffed. This bug has rendered the cruel Flurry set useless for the better part of a year, even if you could sustain them.

Rend isn’t single target.

i am aware but try it out, it works and has always worked with the cruel flurry set.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Its Asylum daggers or bust! Those thibgs really bring da pwnage!

John_Falstaff

I realize I'm resurrecting a zombie thread here, but...

PC/Mac Patch Notes v4.0.5 - Summerset & Update 18 wrote:

Cruel Flurry: This item set now only works on damage over time abilities you cast from your bar, and not damage over time procs such as Twin Blade and Blunt.

That should have fixed the issue with bleeds and status effect ticks consuming the buff, at least. Anybody got to test vMA DW weapons after Summerset? Is the situation any better? Other bugs (like rearming trap consuming buff twice, or only first tick of poison injection getting buffed) still remain?

(Edit: just noticed that patch notes also explicitly mention that poison injection bug was fixed, too. Rearming trap question is still open; it would be interesting to see that set tested again post-update.)

SmellyUnlimited

Perhaps someone on PTS could test. I’m on console. I have the cruel flurry set, though, so I’ll give it a test in the next few days. I think most valuable with a StamDK - buffs claw and breath, and they really don’t have a spammable otherwise. I remember people pairing this with red mountain back in the day, but maybe the revamped Swamp Raider set would add some crazy power to these DOTS.

YoshinJaa

Yes, Cruel Flurry was fixed finally in Summerset and can be consumed by Poison Injection correctly. Rearming and the 2nd rearm can consume a cruel flurry buff as well. If you run vMA daggers you may want to try using Channeled Acceleration from the Psijic skills so that trap does not accidentally consume before an intended Injection, resulting in a hefty dps loss when you are at 50% or less health.

I'm not sure if it is really worth using this patch though. Hit 45k on stam dk which definitely wasn't bad, but could be better if they brought back how vMA and vDSA weapons used to have a passive stat bonus, or they buff the damage gained from the proc a tad more (probably 400 more).

Dillpat

SoLooney wrote: »

heard they are still bugged

stamplars have biting jabs
stamblades are surprise attack
stam dks have a bunch of dots, dont really have room for a spammable

stam sorcs could def benefit since they dont have a class spammable
stam wardens could prob benefit as well

it would be amazing on stamplar if it wasnt just single target dots. jabs is an aoe. rip

John_Falstaff

YoshinJaa wrote: »

I'm not sure if it is really worth using this patch though. Hit 45k on stam dk which definitely wasn't bad, but could be better if they brought back how vMA and vDSA weapons used to have a passive stat bonus, or they buff the damage gained from the proc a tad more (probably 400 more).

May I bother you for the rotation you've used on stam DK? I've got axe and dagger in the mail from leaderboards last day, so I'm of a mind to give them a test-drive. Also, by using Channeled Acceleration you mean replacing Trap with it altogether, solely for Minor Force buff?

Asardes

They've been obsolete for a long time:
- One Tamriel gave every set weapons
- they reduced the weapon damage bonus to DoTs from 3K to 2K
- Morrowind making a Rapid Strikes rotation almost impossible to sustain
- the bug that makes some abilities such as Poison Injection and Rearming Trap
- the final nail in the coffin was Summerset since every class now has access to a cheap spammable skill - Crushing Weapon - that makes boosting every DoT unnecessary.

I keep them in storage just in case they change them in some other way, so I won't need to re-farm them.

John_Falstaff

@Asardes - just for clarity, are Rapid Strikes more expensive? I have them (or rather Bloodthirst) about 100 stamina cheaper than Crushing Weapon (with both Psijic and DW passives maxed out). So, if rotation can include Crushing Weapon as a spammable and be sustainable, it can very well include Rapid Strikes in its place with all other things equal. Granted, bugs in Rapid Strikes (no CP on last hit, no off hand enchantment) make them less appealing.

Asardes

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Asardes - just for clarity, are Rapid Strikes more expensive? I have them (or rather Bloodthirst) about 100 stamina cheaper than Crushing Weapon (with both Psijic and DW passives maxed out). So, if rotation can include Crushing Weapon as a spammable and be sustainable, it can very well include Rapid Strikes in its place with all other things equal. Granted, bugs in Rapid Strikes (no CP on last hit, no off hand enchantment) make them less appealing.

Yes, Rapid Strikes is ~100 stamina cheaper than Crushing Weapon but the problem is how you apply them. In order to efficiently use the Controlled Fury bonus, you'll need to use the ability right before every front bar DoT. Stamina NB only has Rending Slashes, with is one of the weakest DoTs in the game. As for damage done, Rapid Strikes will do 13.5K per hit, while Crushing Weapon will do 11K considering the same stats, but Psijic also has Spell Charge passive that will give 5.7K every 5 hits, so the total damage will be in fact 12.1K per hit. So considering strictly the damage done Rapid Strikes is slightly better, however it's a 0.6s channel (lower than the GCD, but still awkward to weave with), while Crushing Weapon is instant, and can be weaved with no problem. The latter also gives you a 5K shield if you need to block so it has a bit of build in mitigation. Stamina NB can instead use Surprise Attack that costs about the same as Rapid Strikes, does about the same damage and it's instant, posing no problems with weaving.

John_Falstaff

I suppose it's not equally useful across stamina builds, and I can't really say anything about stamina NBs since I'm not playing one. I know nightblade is generally not a very DoT-oriented class. For stamina DK (which I play) the outlook is, nothing built-in like Surprise Attack is on the table, but more buffable abilities (Rending Slashes, Claw, Trap, for some reason Noxious Breath and, after bar swap, Poison Injection).

Here's one theoretical idea on how to make Cruel Flurry set perform better again (hear me, @ZOS_GinaBruno ^^): instead of returning the 3k weapon damage buff, Cruel Flurry could extend duration of the buffed DoT by some amount. That would allow for longer rotation (to avoid dropping some DoTs to get more Flurries in-between and/or do more heavy attacks to help with sustaining such rotation).

LiquidPony

Asardes wrote: »

They've been obsolete for a long time:
- One Tamriel gave every set weapons
- they reduced the weapon damage bonus to DoTs from 3K to 2K
- Morrowind making a Rapid Strikes rotation almost impossible to sustain
- the bug that makes some abilities such as Poison Injection and Rearming Trap
- the final nail in the coffin was Summerset since every class now has access to a cheap spammable skill - Crushing Weapon - that makes boosting every DoT unnecessary.

I keep them in storage just in case they change them in some other way, so I won't need to re-farm them.

Why do people say that a Rapid Strikes rotation is hard to sustain?

Rapid Strikes is the cheapest stam spammable in the game. Cheaper than Shrouded Daggers, Jabs, Surprise Attack, Crushing Weapon, etc. And it isn't hard to weave it, either. Pretty much every stam character in the game weaved Rapid Strikes just fine for ages when Maelstrom DW were meta.