My point of view of Necromancers on the Lore

srnekro

Greetings,

My name is Sr NeKro Dead’Singer. My sole objective is to pass the word of Necromancy on door to door.

In this post, I intend to give you my idea of Necromancer on my point of view WITH my knowledge of ESO lore.

It’s a difficult and delicate matter, as in this universe, even the god of Death despise Necromancers, but help me out by leaving the hatred out, and only constructed argument in? Mkay? Let’s keep it politically correct.

Definition:

What is Necromancy?

Well, if all games taught me something, is resurrection of the undead. In this case, is a branch of the school of Conjuration. Now, conjuration has tons of branches, to summon daedra to daedric weapons and armor. Necromancy is one of many branches this school has. It is the path that separates Necromancer to other mages.

Now, Necromancy has a lot of loose ends. They can bring back the souls from the Soul Cairn or they can call upon daedric spirits to inhabit fallen corpses. Or summon them directly from oblivion.

What is a Necromancer?

A Necromancer, is a master of Necromancy. But that’s not all. To achieve the rank of a Master, a Necromancer need to use other schools of magic as well, in order to protect themselves and making them, allies and their minions even stronger. Therefore, they use Restoration, Alteration, Illusion and Mysticism.

With Restoration and Alteration, not just Necromancers can reinforce their skin (and their allies) with protective buffs, but they can use it to tear the defenses of their enemies down. “Physically” decaying and dismantling their strengths and buffs. With the help of illusion and Mysticism, Necromancers can do a “magic” approach too. Giving all sort of “mental sickness” and illness to their foes, even causing them to fear in terror.

Plus, Restoration, Alteration and Mysticism together, can be a great help to “maintain”, “construct” and “evolve” new friends. And by friends, I mean Flesh Atronachs and more flesh abominations, besides the risen Skeletons, Spirits and Zombies.

Also, Restoration is important to a Necromancer as munch Necromancy. Since Restoration physically cures diseases and illness, a Necromancer can use it to inflict them. And for knowing how they work, with the help of Restoration, he can provide resistance to them.

Alignment:

Now, yes, I am against Necromancy when it’s used towards civilians and more innocent people. I wouldn’t want that to some of my friends and family. But, unfortunately, as you know, the world isn’t filled with honest and good people. If that was true, we wouldn’t need Necromancy at all, the light would suffice.
The world (both on Tamriel and principally on ours) is filled with… “bad” people. Idiocy has taken the best of them, making normal people on to murders, torturers and worse. Thus, the world is filled with sin. And they are too many, only the Light can not judge them all by itself. Plus, we got corruption. Light is not as pure as it once was. Light can close its eyes in time to time, letting bad people getting away.

And there, is when Darkness arrives, Necromancy. Why use Necromancy towards civilians, when we can use it on criminals? Also, their bodies will have their muscle reflexes, which will make them very good risen undead soldiers. And you did the good deed of the week. Because there is a lot of bad people who deserve a fate worse than Death.
Let’s look at Tamriel and pretend it is a real world. I can not believe that there would be a world where there wouldn’t be some good on evil and some evil on good. There must be a balance, and a Necromancer is that. A balance. They are neither a Hero nor a Villain. They are more like anti-heroes. Like Dead Pool.

Now, yes, we see a lot of Necromancers bad guys out there on ESO. But we also see Archers, Warriors, Dragon Knights, Sorcerers, Shamans, Nightblade and so on. We see every class as the bad guys, why Necromancer must be the black sheep? All the bad guys have the same “profession” as the good guys. They just preferred to use it on a “different” way. Why come Necromancer has to be the only class designated only for evil?!

It’s not the Necromancy that makes people evil. Is people who make themselves evil. Is the use of power that will deter if someone is evil, not the power itself. Like guns. Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.

Mannimarco.

He is the ultimate villain, but let’s think for a second. They knew he was a Necromancer right? I am not a lore expert, but before he betrayed them, he was on the Five Companions. Maybe no one liked him, but they at least tolerate him, and the Emperor believed on him, until that happen. So, I am sorry to say this, but saying that all Necromancers are evil is racist. Just because, the lore and Arkay says that they are evil and everything, it’s not all of them. I am sure that there might be one or two that understands the power they are wielding and respect the dead and only uses Necromancy to aid the dead.


Usefulness:

And, why would someone want that?!

Necromancy can be very handy used in the right way. Calling down the fallen spirits to tell you the truth about history, as you know, history is only written by the winners… So, how would be the “losing side” point of view?.

Necromancy can turn the tide of the battle in mere seconds, as it turns the “casualties” on “fresh” reinforcement. Imagine yourself on a war zone. You look around and all you see is your friends and allies are getting horrible killed by the enemies. The enemy has some casualties as well. Wouldn’t Necromancy be handy? Turn the casualties of the enemy in to reinforcement to your side AND give a second chance to your fallen comrades to rise once more to defend your land/ideals, and more importantly, to avenge themselves? This sounds very noble to me. More noble than you avenged them. Because, by raising them, you are giving them the very chance to satiate their revenge on first hand.

As I said, and still pretending that Tamriel is a real world where progress and evolution exists, there may be already a Necropolis, a sacred city/order to the Necromancers, where they can study Necromancy at peace, already on the lore and they may be hidden, like Volkihar Clan of Skyrim on “Dawnguard” DLC.

Or-my favorite theory so far- why not “create” a Necropolis, now? Just because there isn’t one so far (if it there is really none), what stops us to create one now? Besides this blind hate towards Necromancers.

Soul gems.
Of course. We already can revive with soul gems. Yes we can. The difference is like everything else, quality. If you do the same thing over and over again, you increase your performance of doing something. For example, of course a Priest would do a better job at healing over a Mage. A Mage can cast a healing spell in time to time, but a Priest is always healing, therefore, of course a Priest would be more “professional” and better at healing than a Mage.
Besides, soul gems would be a reagent to some spells of Necromancy. Like, building Flesh Atronachs. Since the dead would be either risen the bodies with the help of Soul Cairn or summoning them from Oblivion like on the 4th Elder Scrolls.

In conclusion, even on The Elder Scrolls Lore, Necromancy is nothing in specific (yet or might never be). And since Tamriel and The Elder Scrolls are on constantly open developing, I can only hope that one day, Necromancers have the attention they deserve. Since they are a unique class. One that can provide benefits on both gameplay and lore.

Check my post about my point of views towards the Necromancer on ESO Mechanics.

SHORTER VERSION

teiselaise

Ok so I only glimpsed over it, so I might have missed something, but won't it be problematic having a class that can't interact in a friendly way with redguards?

Ratzkifal

I generally agree with your sentiment and you bring forth some good arguments but here are some points that I object too or have nitpicky corrections for.

srnekro wrote: »

[..] the god of Death despise Necromancers [..]

[..] Plus, we got corruption. Light is not as pure as it once was. Light can close its eyes in time to time, letting bad people getting away. [..]

[..] And there, is when Darkness arrives, Necromancy. Why use Necromancy towards civilians, when we can use it on criminals? Also, their bodies will have their muscle reflexes, which will make them very good risen undead soldiers. And you did the good deed of the week. Because there is a lot of bad people who deserve a fate worse than Death. [..]

[..] There must be a balance, and a Necromancer is that. A balance. They are neither a Hero nor a Villain. They are more like anti-heroes. Like Dead Pool. [..]

[..] saying that all Necromancers are evil is racist. [..]

[..] only uses Necromancy to aid the dead.[..]

Arkay is the god of birth and death, the mortal god, the god of life (from the beginning to the end) - not just "the god of death".

Light does not close its eyes. Light will never let bad people get away. However light blinds and it will do the wrong thing, not seeing its hypocrisy. Example: a possible end of the fighters guild quest.

A fate worse than death is why people hate necromancy in the first place. A lot of people think that nobody deserves a fate worse than death, especially those on the light side. Stendarr is the god of mercy after all. Others might disagree, but they can not be considered morally good.

A better example than Deadpool for this would be Illidan, who uses the powers of evil to fight fire with fire - since this is what you want (some) necromancers to be like.

It's not racist. necromancers are not a race. It might be classist or ableist.

I think no necromancer uses necromancy to aid the dead. The dead are tools to them and tools for their cause, which might be a good cause and might even be aligned with the will of the deceased. Take the Draugr for example who willingly sacrifce their afterlife to serve their dragonpriest in death.

Ermiq

You really need to read some lore before writing a word "lore" in your posts. You know nothing about TES lore, you know nothing about the reasons why necromancy is forbidden in Tamriel, you know nothing about necromancy itself and what is necromancy in TES actually.
But you still continue the flooding all over the forums about things you don't understand.

srnekro

teiselaise wrote: »

Ok so I only glimpsed over it, so I might have missed something, but won't it be problematic having a class that can't interact in a friendly way with redguards?

I'm sorry, what?

srnekro

Eremith wrote: »

You really need to read some lore before writing a word "lore" in your posts. You know nothing about TES lore, you know nothing about the reasons why necromancy is forbidden in Tamriel, you know nothing about necromancy itself and what is necromancy in TES actually.
But you still continue the flooding all over the forums about things you don't understand.

I know that this lore is still evolving. I know that times change, and you either change with them, or be forsaken on to oblivion.

srnekro

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I generally agree with your sentiment and you bring forth some good arguments but here are some points that I object too or have nitpicky corrections for.

srnekro wrote: »

[..] the god of Death despise Necromancers [..]

[..] Plus, we got corruption. Light is not as pure as it once was. Light can close its eyes in time to time, letting bad people getting away. [..]

[..] And there, is when Darkness arrives, Necromancy. Why use Necromancy towards civilians, when we can use it on criminals? Also, their bodies will have their muscle reflexes, which will make them very good risen undead soldiers. And you did the good deed of the week. Because there is a lot of bad people who deserve a fate worse than Death. [..]

[..] There must be a balance, and a Necromancer is that. A balance. They are neither a Hero nor a Villain. They are more like anti-heroes. Like Dead Pool. [..]

[..] saying that all Necromancers are evil is racist. [..]

[..] only uses Necromancy to aid the dead.[..]

Arkay is the god of birth and death, the mortal god, the god of life (from the beginning to the end) - not just "the god of death".

Light does not close its eyes. Light will never let bad people get away. However light blinds and it will do the wrong thing, not seeing its hypocrisy. Example: a possible end of the fighters guild quest.

A fate worse than death is why people hate necromancy in the first place. A lot of people think that nobody deserves a fate worse than death, especially those on the light side. Stendarr is the god of mercy after all. Others might disagree, but they can not be considered morally good.

A better example than Deadpool for this would be Illidan, who uses the powers of evil to fight fire with fire - since this is what you want (some) necromancers to be like.

It's not racist. necromancers are not a race. It might be classist or ableist.

I think no necromancer uses necromancy to aid the dead. The dead are tools to them and tools for their cause, which might be a good cause and might even be aligned with the will of the deceased. Take the Draugr for example who willingly sacrifce their afterlife to serve their dragonpriest in death.

I understand what you are saying and I appreciate the way you put it. It's sad when people don't know how to make constructive arguments and just blindly throw up their hate.

Necromancy, as I said, is a deliclated argument. However, a harsh one. I understand that many is against it, just like the citizen of Tamriel . But yet, it has a great potetial to evolve, to redeem itself, and I just want to make sure it gets there.

Ermiq

srnekro wrote: »

Eremith wrote: »

You really need to read some lore before writing a word "lore" in your posts. You know nothing about TES lore, you know nothing about the reasons why necromancy is forbidden in Tamriel, you know nothing about necromancy itself and what is necromancy in TES actually.
But you still continue the flooding all over the forums about things you don't understand.

I know that this lore is still evolving. I know that times change, and you either change with them, or be forsaken on to oblivion.

Evolving is not equal to changing. TES lore still getting new details, yes, but it doesn't mean that it's getting changed.
What you're trying to suggest is to change/re-write the lore.

For example, read "The Legend of Vastarie" (you can find it in Grathwood collection in Shalidor's Library, I doubt that you've collected any book yet though) and give some attention to Vanus Galerion's reaction when he saw some "good" necromancy experiment, then try to imagine his reaction if you would raise corpses in main questline right in front of him.
Yeah, I know, you'll answer in your manner again, like "it's not bad to change something, changing is good, necromancy can bring a lot in this world, blablabla". I don't want to read this again, and I won't.
So, good luck here, bye.

Lord_Hev

srnekro wrote: »

So, I am sorry to say this, but saying that all Necromancers are evil is racist.

No, that's not racism. "Bigoted" is the word you are looking for.

teiselaise wrote: »

Ok so I only glimpsed over it, so I might have missed something, but won't it be problematic having a class that can't interact in a friendly way with redguards?

I wasn't aware Redguards and races and cultures are a hive-mind.


http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Jalbert

ForsakenSin

srnekro

ForsakenSin wrote: »

omg hahaha

Ankael07

Necromancy is neither a branch of conjuration nor just resurrection of the undead. Its the manipulation of souls.
Literally the first sentence describing necromancy

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Necromancy

Smaxx

srnekro wrote: »

He is the ultimate villain, but let’s think for a second. They knew he was a Necromancer right? I am not a lore expert, but before he betrayed them, he was on the Five Companions. Maybe no one liked him, but they at least tolerate him, and the Emperor believed on him, until that happen. So, I am sorry to say this, but saying that all Necromancers are evil is racist. Just because, the lore and Arkay says that they are evil and everything, it’s not all of them. I am sure that there might be one or two that understands the power they are wielding and respect the dead and only uses Necromancy to aid the dead.

No, not all necromancers are evil, especially depending on which side they're fighting. But it's also important to remember that necromancy is just a different branch of magic. It's something everyone with some magical skill can pick up (the difference is how good one can become). But the important aspect here is the fact that Mannimarco might have introduced himself just as a powerful magician. And even if they'd know he'd possess the knowledge about necromancy, it's not outlawed everywhere. It's widely accepted in Morrowind ("if it's of use for us…" – they even knowingly use necromancy on their own family members so they can guard their crypts) and also parts of the Empire (this is the more important part here I'd say).

There are also several accounts of Breton necromancers known to their higher ups in ESO and the only reaction is to send them off to attack the other alliances and do their magic there – if you can't see it at home and it's useful, let them do it…

So the lore problem isn't about having necromancers around you, it's about them using necromancy. In these regards you could even consider the Templar's Repentance abiltiy could be considered borderline, because it uses the bodies of the deceased.

srnekro

Smaxx wrote: »

srnekro wrote: »

He is the ultimate villain, but let’s think for a second. They knew he was a Necromancer right? I am not a lore expert, but before he betrayed them, he was on the Five Companions. Maybe no one liked him, but they at least tolerate him, and the Emperor believed on him, until that happen. So, I am sorry to say this, but saying that all Necromancers are evil is racist. Just because, the lore and Arkay says that they are evil and everything, it’s not all of them. I am sure that there might be one or two that understands the power they are wielding and respect the dead and only uses Necromancy to aid the dead.

No, not all necromancers are evil, especially depending on which side they're fighting. But it's also important to remember that necromancy is just a different branch of magic. It's something everyone with some magical skill can pick up (the difference is how good one can become). But the important aspect here is the fact that Mannimarco might have introduced himself just as a powerful magician. And even if they'd know he'd possess the knowledge about necromancy, it's not outlawed everywhere. It's widely accepted in Morrowind ("if it's of use for us…" – they even knowingly use necromancy on their own family members so they can guard their crypts) and also parts of the Empire (this is the more important part here I'd say).

There are also several accounts of Breton necromancers known to their higher ups in ESO and the only reaction is to send them off to attack the other alliances and do their magic there – if you can't see it at home and it's useful, let them do it…

So the lore problem isn't about having necromancers around you, it's about them using necromancy. In these regards you could even consider the Templar's Repentance abiltiy could be considered borderline, because it uses the bodies of the deceased.

That's exactly what I want to say. Thank you.

srnekro

MythicEmperor

srnekro wrote: »

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PetTheDog

Evil liches love cats too

Kierro

Argonians as a whole, think necromancy is an atrocity. There's an Argonian tribe called the Veeskhleel or the Ghost People. They're accused of being necromancers, because they have a habit of kidnapping and/or stealing dead Argonians. Rumours are they use the dead as fertilizer for their Hist tree, where others believe the living are used for necromantic experiments. To Argonians, a body is a vessel for reincarnation, if it is destroyed or tampered with, the soul can't return to its family and be reincarnated into a new body. A necromancer, especially if that necromancer is an Argonian (I've seen quite a few) is a major insult, and in many cases worse then slavery to the Dunmer. Where if in slavery, you have a chance to return to your Hist if you die. Necromancy is a guaranteed "No."

PrayingSeraph

Kierro wrote: »

Argonians as a whole, think necromancy is an atrocity. There's an Argonian tribe called the Veeskhleel or the Ghost People. They're accused of being necromancers, because they have a habit of kidnapping and/or stealing dead Argonians. Rumours are they use the dead as fertilizer for their Hist tree, where others believe the living are used for necromantic experiments. To Argonians, a body is a vessel for reincarnation, if it is destroyed or tampered with, the soul can't return to its family and be reincarnated into a new body. A necromancer, especially if that necromancer is an Argonian (I've seen quite a few) is a major insult, and in many cases worse then slavery to the Dunmer. Where if in slavery, you have a chance to return to your Hist if you die. Necromancy is a guaranteed "No."

And yet Argonians revere Sithis. I wouldn't take morality lessons from filthy sithis worshipping tree licking lizards.

Kierro

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Kierro wrote: »

Argonians as a whole, think necromancy is an atrocity. There's an Argonian tribe called the Veeskhleel or the Ghost People. They're accused of being necromancers, because they have a habit of kidnapping and/or stealing dead Argonians. Rumours are they use the dead as fertilizer for their Hist tree, where others believe the living are used for necromantic experiments. To Argonians, a body is a vessel for reincarnation, if it is destroyed or tampered with, the soul can't return to its family and be reincarnated into a new body. A necromancer, especially if that necromancer is an Argonian (I've seen quite a few) is a major insult, and in many cases worse then slavery to the Dunmer. Where if in slavery, you have a chance to return to your Hist if you die. Necromancy is a guaranteed "No."

And yet Argonians revere Sithis. I wouldn't take morality lessons from filthy sithis worshipping tree licking lizards.

Sithis isn't a necromancer, so your comment is a moot point. Argonians (as a whole) are atheistic or agnostic, at best. They don't worship a god or gods. At least, not in the same sense as other races. It's like Buddhism, where they acknowledge Sithis' existence, but don't actually worship him. That's not to say there's not those who try. Also, Sithis is neither good nor bad, like all gods. Akatosh created Alduin to do the very thing Sithis does, cause death and chaos. So the Nine aren't so morally just, either. In a manner of speaking, if Sithis had a form, it would be Alduin. Sithis would also despise necromancy, because necromancers would take souls from the void, but never give back.

PrayingSeraph

Kierro wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Kierro wrote: »

Argonians as a whole, think necromancy is an atrocity. There's an Argonian tribe called the Veeskhleel or the Ghost People. They're accused of being necromancers, because they have a habit of kidnapping and/or stealing dead Argonians. Rumours are they use the dead as fertilizer for their Hist tree, where others believe the living are used for necromantic experiments. To Argonians, a body is a vessel for reincarnation, if it is destroyed or tampered with, the soul can't return to its family and be reincarnated into a new body. A necromancer, especially if that necromancer is an Argonian (I've seen quite a few) is a major insult, and in many cases worse then slavery to the Dunmer. Where if in slavery, you have a chance to return to your Hist if you die. Necromancy is a guaranteed "No."

And yet Argonians revere Sithis. I wouldn't take morality lessons from filthy sithis worshipping tree licking lizards.

Sithis isn't a necromancer, so your comment is a moot point. Argonians (as a whole) are atheistic or agnostic, at best. They don't worship a god or gods. At least, not in the same sense as other races. It's like Buddhism, where they acknowledge Sithis' existence, but don't actually worship him. That's not to say there's not those who try. Also, Sithis is neither good nor bad, like all gods. Akatosh created Alduin to do the very thing Sithis does, cause death and chaos. So the Nine aren't so morally just, either. In a manner of speaking, if Sithis had a form, it would be Alduin. Sithis would also despise necromancy, because necromancers would take souls from the void, but never give back.

Several issues with this:

1:I said argonians revere Sithis, I didn't say worship. They revere him enough to send shadow scales off to a murderous insane Dark Brotherhood.
2:Atheist or Agnostic isn't really the right word. If you know deities exist, you can't be either.
3:Sithis not being a necromancer is irrelevant. If you had a culture that sent off children to become murderers, I wouldn't take moral lessons from them on how something else is bad. Hence my response to your comment that described why argonians oppose necromancy.
4:Also I don't buy the utterly morality relativism arguement that x deities in Elder Scrolls can't be judged to be evil. Especially considering deities in Elder Scrolls *do* judge each other evil and such.
5:My comment wasn't entirely meant to be serious

Kierro

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Several issues with this:

1:I said argonians revere Sithis, I didn't say worship. They revere him enough to send shadow scales off to a murderous insane Dark Brotherhood.
2:Atheist or Agnostic isn't really the right word. If you know deities exist, you can't be either.
3:Sithis not being a necromancer is irrelevant. If you had a culture that sent off children to become murderers, I wouldn't take moral lessons from them on how something else is bad. Hence my response to your comment that described why argonians oppose necromancy.
4:Also I don't buy the utterly morality relativism arguement that x deities in Elder Scrolls can't be judged to be evil. Especially considering deities in Elder Scrolls *do* judge each other evil and such.
5:My comment wasn't entirely meant to be serious

1) You literally say worshipping in your message I replied to "Filthy Sithis worshipping tree licking lizards." Also, do you know the definition of agnostic? The Argonians as a species have no god(s) of their own. They don't believe in an afterlife but rather reincarnation. Being agnostic means you believe in a possible powerful force, but you don't believe it belongs to a single religion or that it's even intelligent. So, yes, atheistic or agnostic fits Argonians very well. Again, Argonians as a species, don't worship Sithis, they're aware of him; like your awareness of air, but they (you) don't actually worship him (air). It's more of a fear than loving worship, hence the phrase "May Sithis keep you from the void." or "Lets hope you don't pis him off and destroy you/us."

2) Shadowscales aren't murderers in the same sense as the Dark Brotherhood, despite their training. Same tenets but different goals (We train assassins in real life, especially during war times to kill high rankers of an enemy) Shadowscales are protectors of the Argonian people and take orders from the King of Argonia (whoever or whatever that is). They're basically the Medjay from ancient Egypt. A special task force.

PrayingSeraph

Kierro wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Several issues with this:

1:I said argonians revere Sithis, I didn't say worship. They revere him enough to send shadow scales off to a murderous insane Dark Brotherhood.
2:Atheist or Agnostic isn't really the right word. If you know deities exist, you can't be either.
3:Sithis not being a necromancer is irrelevant. If you had a culture that sent off children to become murderers, I wouldn't take moral lessons from them on how something else is bad. Hence my response to your comment that described why argonians oppose necromancy.
4:Also I don't buy the utterly morality relativism arguement that x deities in Elder Scrolls can't be judged to be evil. Especially considering deities in Elder Scrolls *do* judge each other evil and such.
5:My comment wasn't entirely meant to be serious

1) You literally say worshipping in your message I replied to "Filthy Sithis worshipping tree licking lizards." Also, do you know the definition of agnostic? The Argonians as a species have no god(s) of their own. They don't believe in an afterlife but rather reincarnation. Being agnostic means you believe in a possible powerful force, but you don't believe it belongs to a single religion or that it's even intelligent. So, yes, atheistic or agnostic fits Argonians very well. Again, Argonians as a species, don't worship Sithis, they're aware of him; like your awareness of air, but they (you) don't actually worship him (air). It's more of a fear than loving worship, hence the phrase "May Sithis keep you from the void." or "Lets hope you don't pis him off and destroy you/us."

2) Shadowscales aren't murderers in the same sense as the Dark Brotherhood, despite their training. Same tenets but different goals (We train assassins in real life, especially during war times to kill high rankers of an enemy) Shadowscales are protectors of the Argonian people and take orders from the King of Argonia (whoever or whatever that is). They're basically the Medjay from ancient Egypt. A special task force.

The "filthy sithis worshipping tree licking lizards" again was not serious as I implied in my last comment.. It was tongue-in-cheek. Again I direct you to "reverence"

No Agnosticism and most certainly not atheism fits what Argonisns are. Definition of Agnosticism on google:
"a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God."

Webster dictionary: "a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a Gods"

The Argonians are full aware of the existence of Aedra and Daedra, which are gods of the Elder Scrolls universe. Therefor it's impossible to be agnostic. I'm not sure if there's a word for those who know the existence of deities but choose not to worship them.

In regards to Shadowscales, they can leave the Brotherhood to serve their homeland, but they still do DB contracts and still abide by the DBs 5 Tenants.

Kierro

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

No Agnosticism and most certainly not atheism fits what Argonisns are. Definition of Agnosticism on google:
"a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God."

Webster dictionary: "a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a Gods"

The Argonians are full aware of the existence of Aedra and Daedra, which are gods of the Elder Scrolls universe. Therefor it's impossible to be agnostic. I'm not sure if there's a word for those who know the existence of deities but choose not to worship them.

In regards to Shadowscales, they can leave the Brotherhood to serve their homeland, but they still do DB contracts and still abide by the DBs 5 Tenants.

We've spent enough on this subject and it derails OP, so this is my last post. Taken from the religion section http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Argonian#Religion "Except for the more deeply assimilated (aka converts) the Argonians do not formally recognize or worship any type of Tamrielic deity." So, again, as a species they don't worship or believe in any god or gods. This can be seen as atheistic, but with the respect of Sithis can be seen as agnostic. Argonians are a mixture of Buddhism (don't worship a deity but are spiritual), Egyptian (their clothing, pyramids and special, Medjay like, task force) and Native American culture (spiritual and communing with nature). As for the tenets, they're similar but there's differences. Shadowscale can't kill another Shadowscale, even if ordered to by the DB. Another assassin, who has no connection to the Shadowscales, is sent to kill the rogues. Normally, refusing an order brings the Wrath of Sithis and can be forgiven should they survive. Break any of the 5 tenets as a Shadowscale, it's straight up death, as it's seen as treason and there is no forgiveness http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Shadowscales.

MaDGaR

srnekro wrote: »

Greetings,

My name is Sr NeKro Dead’Singer. My sole objective is to pass the word of Necromancy on door to door.

In this post, I intend to give you my idea of Necromancer on my point of view WITH my knowledge of ESO lore.

It’s a difficult and delicate matter, as in this universe, even the god of Death despise Necromancers, but help me out by leaving the hatred out, and only constructed argument in? Mkay? Let’s keep it politically correct.

Definition:

What is Necromancy?

Well, if all games taught me something, is resurrection of the undead. In this case, is a branch of the school of Conjuration. Now, conjuration has tons of branches, to summon daedra to daedric weapons and armor. Necromancy is one of many branches this school has. It is the path that separates Necromancer to other mages.

Now, Necromancy has a lot of loose ends. They can bring back the souls from the Soul Cairn or they can call upon daedric spirits to inhabit fallen corpses. Or summon them directly from oblivion.

What is a Necromancer?

A Necromancer, is a master of Necromancy. But that’s not all. To achieve the rank of a Master, a Necromancer need to use other schools of magic as well, in order to protect themselves and making them, allies and their minions even stronger. Therefore, they use Restoration, Alteration, Illusion and Mysticism.

With Restoration and Alteration, not just Necromancers can reinforce their skin (and their allies) with protective buffs, but they can use it to tear the defenses of their enemies down. “Physically” decaying and dismantling their strengths and buffs. With the help of illusion and Mysticism, Necromancers can do a “magic” approach too. Giving all sort of “mental sickness” and illness to their foes, even causing them to fear in terror.

Plus, Restoration, Alteration and Mysticism together, can be a great help to “maintain”, “construct” and “evolve” new friends. And by friends, I mean Flesh Atronachs and more flesh abominations, besides the risen Skeletons, Spirits and Zombies.

Also, Restoration is important to a Necromancer as munch Necromancy. Since Restoration physically cures diseases and illness, a Necromancer can use it to inflict them. And for knowing how they work, with the help of Restoration, he can provide resistance to them.

Alignment:

Now, yes, I am against Necromancy when it’s used towards civilians and more innocent people. I wouldn’t want that to some of my friends and family. But, unfortunately, as you know, the world isn’t filled with honest and good people. If that was true, we wouldn’t need Necromancy at all, the light would suffice.
The world (both on Tamriel and principally on ours) is filled with… “bad” people. Idiocy has taken the best of them, making normal people on to murders, torturers and worse. Thus, the world is filled with sin. And they are too many, only the Light can not judge them all by itself. Plus, we got corruption. Light is not as pure as it once was. Light can close its eyes in time to time, letting bad people getting away.

And there, is when Darkness arrives, Necromancy. Why use Necromancy towards civilians, when we can use it on criminals? Also, their bodies will have their muscle reflexes, which will make them very good risen undead soldiers. And you did the good deed of the week. Because there is a lot of bad people who deserve a fate worse than Death.
Let’s look at Tamriel and pretend it is a real world. I can not believe that there would be a world where there wouldn’t be some good on evil and some evil on good. There must be a balance, and a Necromancer is that. A balance. They are neither a Hero nor a Villain. They are more like anti-heroes. Like Dead Pool.

Now, yes, we see a lot of Necromancers bad guys out there on ESO. But we also see Archers, Warriors, Dragon Knights, Sorcerers, Shamans, Nightblade and so on. We see every class as the bad guys, why Necromancer must be the black sheep? All the bad guys have the same “profession” as the good guys. They just preferred to use it on a “different” way. Why come Necromancer has to be the only class designated only for evil?!

It’s not the Necromancy that makes people evil. Is people who make themselves evil. Is the use of power that will deter if someone is evil, not the power itself. Like guns. Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.

Mannimarco.

He is the ultimate villain, but let’s think for a second. They knew he was a Necromancer right? I am not a lore expert, but before he betrayed them, he was on the Five Companions. Maybe no one liked him, but they at least tolerate him, and the Emperor believed on him, until that happen. So, I am sorry to say this, but saying that all Necromancers are evil is racist. Just because, the lore and Arkay says that they are evil and everything, it’s not all of them. I am sure that there might be one or two that understands the power they are wielding and respect the dead and only uses Necromancy to aid the dead.


Usefulness:

And, why would someone want that?!

Necromancy can be very handy used in the right way. Calling down the fallen spirits to tell you the truth about history, as you know, history is only written by the winners… So, how would be the “losing side” point of view?.

Necromancy can turn the tide of the battle in mere seconds, as it turns the “casualties” on “fresh” reinforcement. Imagine yourself on a war zone. You look around and all you see is your friends and allies are getting horrible killed by the enemies. The enemy has some casualties as well. Wouldn’t Necromancy be handy? Turn the casualties of the enemy in to reinforcement to your side AND give a second chance to your fallen comrades to rise once more to defend your land/ideals, and more importantly, to avenge themselves? This sounds very noble to me. More noble than you avenged them. Because, by raising them, you are giving them the very chance to satiate their revenge on first hand.

As I said, and still pretending that Tamriel is a real world where progress and evolution exists, there may be already a Necropolis, a sacred city/order to the Necromancers, where they can study Necromancy at peace, already on the lore and they may be hidden, like Volkihar Clan of Skyrim on “Dawnguard” DLC.

Or-my favorite theory so far- why not “create” a Necropolis, now? Just because there isn’t one so far (if it there is really none), what stops us to create one now? Besides this blind hate towards Necromancers.

Soul gems.
Of course. We already can revive with soul gems. Yes we can. The difference is like everything else, quality. If you do the same thing over and over again, you increase your performance of doing something. For example, of course a Priest would do a better job at healing over a Mage. A Mage can cast a healing spell in time to time, but a Priest is always healing, therefore, of course a Priest would be more “professional” and better at healing than a Mage.
Besides, soul gems would be a reagent to some spells of Necromancy. Like, building Flesh Atronachs. Since the dead would be either risen the bodies with the help of Soul Cairn or summoning them from Oblivion like on the 4th Elder Scrolls.

In conclusion, even on The Elder Scrolls Lore, Necromancy is nothing in specific (yet or might never be). And since Tamriel and The Elder Scrolls are on constantly open developing, I can only hope that one day, Necromancers have the attention they deserve. Since they are a unique class. One that can provide benefits on both gameplay and lore.

Check my post about my point of views towards the Necromancer on ESO Mechanics.

SHORTER VERSION

Before I even go by the lore. ZOS and ESO has already Broke Cannon. So what you go by anymore is whatever there is two conflicting stories going on now. and ESO never capitalized on it. another empire race that was in its height in this age was minatours. and they loved the empire. They could have had them join any faction. hell the leader of the Nords is more like Santa than a real Nord.

You need to learn the lore to understand what you are asking for. It is not morale high ground that is at risk. hint lore is important. The empire never outlawed necromancy well let me take back the word never. Mannimarco was known to be a very powerful mage I do not believe he told people publicly he studied necromancy it self. In fact you keep that to your self. One reason tons of mages left the guild was due to necromancy being banned. Dunmer find Necromancy to be the devil and god-like at the same time its all how you practice your art. Empire never outlawed it. No one stood in their way to study it. unless you take small cases and blow them up.

so its more common than you think but things necromancy cant do. Carry dead bodies around. People generally do not like this sad for the necromancer that takes so much study and carefulness taking care of their little slaves. Art of taking care of the dead is a real thing in ESO and its serious business.

Of course if you go to Skyrim and you practice necromancy consider yourself dead. Nords hate magic to begin with so to frighten them with the dead and plagues well they hate you more.

If you follow the lore, one thing stands out the most that is hard to get around. How necromancy can grow to powerful to where one person could potentially take over tramirel with the dead. In fact there is a entire race, of necromancers that live on an island north of summer isles, They are in constant war with the elves, and they are fat ugly slugs, no emotions, all necromancers, and want to rule the world by an undead army. almost wiped out the entire land of tamriel with their plagues. every single race bonded together to stop them which they did. but they are still around and being a pain in the ass.. The quote is if you think you hate the elves think about a race so disgusting or uncaring for other races. it makes the elves look like a God-sent.


They would literally have to make a entire campaign just for this newly found race where you can only be a big fat slug that cannot even walk instead you would have your mind control your movements with magic or powerful necromancy. I will admit a new campaign dedicated to a 4th faction, 1-50 area and a storyline to where their story gets added to caldwell's 3 challenges. but a new pvp arena, all races go head to head with players playing the new race. of course playing as the new race will be unique, can only be necromancy, and be prepared to play as an evil *** that wants to kill the elves with a passion. then again the Nords love it too any human loves killing elves. They have bad blood on both sides who can you blame? Humans die young and way to stubborn..... elves are too arrogant to not see the island as their own over other races.

Kierro

MaDGaR wrote: »

Before I even go by the lore. ZOS and ESO has already Broke Cannon.

What broke canon? (pm)

srnekro

There is a part on the story, if you start your char on the Pact, on the earliest mission, you see the Daggers using Necromancy against them.

I am sure that they weren't the only one.

There it lies my point. Necromancy is ok IF ONLY using on war fields. That's my point. And with the current classes that we already have, not a single one is focused on just one school of magic. So why should Necromancers?

Necromancer is a good Class Option, because it can do things others can't. And don't bring more the lore excuse, please don't. If you bring the lore concept, let's think people on tamriel is real, if so, just because MOST of the Necromancers are evil, that's not an excuse for not being a class for us. The people decide if they want to be evil or not, it's not their power that forces them.

Kierro

srnekro wrote: »

There is a part on the story, if you start your char on the Pact, on the earliest mission, you see the Daggers using Necromancy against them.

I am sure that they weren't the only one.

There it lies my point. Necromancy is ok IF ONLY using on war fields. That's my point. And with the current classes that we already have, not a single one is focused on just one school of magic. So why should Necromancers?

Necromancer is a good Class Option, because it can do things others can't. And don't bring more the lore excuse, please don't. If you bring the lore concept, let's think people on tamriel is real, if so, just because MOST of the Necromancers are evil, that's not an excuse for not being a class for us. The people decide if they want to be evil or not, it's not their power that forces them.

It's not so much as the ability itself, but its use. Far more use necromancy as something wrong. It's like Blood Magic (In general or Dragon Age), it takes the blood and essence from themselves, or others, to power the spells. The problem isn't the spells themselves, but it's the thrill of all that power. So a Blood Mage, 9 out of 10, turns power drunk. If they don't stop taking they can, and often do, kill themselves or the person they take from. A Blood Mage can use their spells to heal, sacrificing some of their (or a willing person) blood to speed up healing process, and that's awesome. But it's rare, because the Blood Mage usually takes and never gives back.

During http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Calendar#Old_Life_Festival it's rumoured that priests perform a form of necromancy to have worshippers converse with loved ones. But there's no proof, and with free beer (eye roll), who cares...

QuebraRegra

Eremith wrote: »

You really need to read some lore before writing a word "lore" in your posts. You know nothing about TES lore, you know nothing about the reasons why necromancy is forbidden in Tamriel, you know nothing about necromancy itself and what is necromancy in TES actually.
But you still continue the flooding all over the forums about things you don't understand.

OP never played a TES game before

"what's a black soul gem"?

Kierro

Sorry to be a "Necromancer" and reanimate this thread, but it was said to be a PoV, and wether that PoV is right or wrong, insults aren't any better... Just saying.

TelvanniWizard

What´s the problem with bringing back a corpse or two from time to time? See it from a Telvanni point of view, if you can, do it. Let´s see what happens. Power is power. How you use it, that´s your problem. If lots of necromancers are "evil" it´s because they´re foolish, evil, coward... not because the magic they practice (though the aesthetic part of necromancy is usually kinda *** and dirty, compared with that clean, awesome blue magicka used by more "regular" mages).

FakeFox

Racist? Since when is Necromancer a race?