Poison/Disease Build

Damianos

Which would be the optimal combination to create a poison/disease based build?

Bare in mind, I've never played a stamina character. I do, however, want to maintain Bow/Dual Weapons in the build. While I am certain there are other "more encouraged" or "better" build styles, this is the only one I am interested in trying.

Also: Is poison/disease damaged increased by magic or spell damage?

I chose Redguard/Bosmer due to the regeneration of the two. I intend to also use Veridethx2, Plague Slinger, Eternal Hunt, Widowmaker, Viper's Sting or Defiler.

EDIT: I primarily play PvE, questing and dungeons with the odd Trial from time to time. The character I intend to use is max CP, level capped and whatnot.

Kingslayer513

Redguard - Dragonknight - Bow/Dual Weapons

A lot of the stamina morphs for DK class abilities deal poison/disease dmg, so that'll help with a themed build. Redguard will give you the best overall resources/sustain. I would put Khajiit as a second best choice because of increased crit + dmg from stealth.

What playstyle are you going for? PVE or PVP? Huge difference between the two. Regarding your question, poison and disease dmg are not effected by spell dmg or magicka.

Damianos

Redguard - Warden - Bow/Dual Weapons

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

A lot of the stamina morphs for DK class abilities deal poison/disease dmg, so that'll help with a themed build. Redguard will give you the best overall resources/sustain. I would put Khajiit as a second best choice because of increased crit + dmg from stealth.

What playstyle are you going for? PVE or PVP? Huge difference between the two. Regarding your question, poison and disease dmg are not effected by spell dmg or magicka.

Thank you for the information! I do not enjoy playing the beastial races, personal preference as it just makes me uncomfortable. As to your quesiton, I primarily play PvE. Mostly just for fun, nothing hardcore serious for me.

starkerealm

Imperial, Werewolf, DK. Possibly 2h with Executioner and Bow with Poison Injection. You're looking at Sheer Venom (with those two skills), viper, and or Vomitdeath (Velidreth). Obviously, if you choose Vomitdeath, you're going to pass on trying to put together Viper and Sheer. Dump Sheer, pick up Agility Jewelry, probably grab an Asylum Greatsword (or Maul for PvP), and a Master's Bow.

Jamini

Bosmer - Dragonknight - Bow/Dual Weapons

Bare in mind, I've never played a stamina character. I do, however, want to maintain Bow/Dual Weapons in the build. While I am certain there are other "more encouraged" or "better" build styles, this is the only one I am interested in trying.

What you have stated is literally the meta for stamina builds. Bosmer and Redguard are also the best races for stamina. Bosmer have better regeneration, while Redguard tend to have more stamina overall.

Is poison/disease damaged increased by magic or spell damage?

poison abilities are based on weapon damage.

Veridethx2, Plague Slinger, Eternal Hunt, Widowmaker, Viper's Sting or Defiler.

Velidreth is one of the top-parsing sets for stamDPS in the game. Especially on DKs. Perfectly fine.
We have no concrete data on Plague Slinger as the set is not out yet, however you will probably get more out of damage sets.
Eternal Hunt is completely meta for PvP builds. It is not really used in PvE much.
Widowmaker is not terribly great anymore.
Viper's Sting is not terribly great anymore.
Defiler is okay, but not generally used for serious content as it is unreliable and screws up allies with the random stun.
I would highly recommend that you look at Morag Tong

I would recommend pairing it with Hundling's Rage, Night Mother's Gaze, Twice Fanged Serpent, or Vicious Serpent

With all of these, you should consider getting a Thunderous Volley Bow for PvE. (vMA Bow)
For PvP you should look into acquiring a Caustic Arrow Bow. (vDSA bow)

As for a poison build, DKs fit that role perfectly. No other class has as much potential poison abilities as we do.

Damianos

Redguard - Warden - Bow/Dual Weapons

starkerealm wrote: »

Imperial, Werewolf, DK. Possibly 2h with Executioner and Bow with Poison Injection. You're looking at Sheer Venom (with those two skills), viper, and or Vomitdeath (Velidreth). Obviously, if you choose Vomitdeath, you're going to pass on trying to put together Viper and Sheer. Dump Sheer, pick up Agility Jewelry, probably grab an Asylum Greatsword (or Maul for PvP), and a Master's Bow.

Why would I choose Werewolf over Vampire? I wouldn't use the Ultimate from Werewolf, which is required to have the regen bonus, where Vampire is just passives.

Damianos

Redguard - Warden - Bow/Dual Weapons

Jamini wrote: »

Bare in mind, I've never played a stamina character. I do, however, want to maintain Bow/Dual Weapons in the build. While I am certain there are other "more encouraged" or "better" build styles, this is the only one I am interested in trying.

What you have stated is literally the meta for stamina builds. Bosmer and Redguard are also the best races for stamina. Bosmer have better regeneration, while Redguard tend to have more stamina overall.

Is poison/disease damaged increased by magic or spell damage?

poison abilities are based on weapon damage.

Veridethx2, Plague Slinger, Eternal Hunt, Widowmaker, Viper's Sting or Defiler.

Velidreth is one of the top-parsing sets for stamDPS in the game. Especially on DKs. Perfectly fine.
We have no concrete data on Plague Slinger as the set is not out yet, however you will probably get more out of damage sets.
Eternal Hunt is completely meta for PvP builds. It is not really used in PvE much.
Widowmaker is not terribly great anymore.
Viper's Sting is not terribly great anymore.
Defiler is okay, but not generally used for serious content as it is unreliable and screws up allies with the random stun.
I would highly recommend that you look at Morag Tong

I would recommend pairing it with Hundling's Rage, Night Mother's Gaze, Twice Fanged Serpent, or Vicious Serpent

With all of these, you should consider getting a Thunderous Volley Bow for PvE. (vMA Bow)
For PvP you should look into acquiring a Caustic Arrow Bow. (vDSA bow)

As for a poison build, DKs fit that role perfectly. No other class has as much potential poison abilities as we do.

Very informative. I had no idea it was so popular. I tend to just throw something together and do my best. I was considering the Defiler and Eternal Hunt primarily for the additional damage boost opportunities, is there really that much more increase by using Hunding's and Morag Tong? I just want to make use of as many things as I can and still be able to survive reasonably well.

PlagueSD

Bosmer - Nightblade - Bow/Dual Weapons

Bosmer nightblade. That's what I currently run. Using Viper's Sting/Briarheart/Stormfist sets with poison's on my weapons.

starkerealm

Damianos wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Imperial, Werewolf, DK. Possibly 2h with Executioner and Bow with Poison Injection. You're looking at Sheer Venom (with those two skills), viper, and or Vomitdeath (Velidreth). Obviously, if you choose Vomitdeath, you're going to pass on trying to put together Viper and Sheer. Dump Sheer, pick up Agility Jewelry, probably grab an Asylum Greatsword (or Maul for PvP), and a Master's Bow.

Why would I choose Werewolf over Vampire? I wouldn't use the Ultimate from Werewolf, which is required to have the regen bonus, where Vampire is just passives.

Werewolf has a disease damage ability. Also, yes, you want it slotted, and you probably want to use it. To be fair, it's more of a theme choice. Vampire can deal poison damage, but that Mistform morph is... "not great."

Though, in retrospect, @Jamini is correct. You'd probably be better off with Hundings Rage + Agility + Vomitdeath, + Master's Bow/Asylum Bow (Master's would be slightly better for you), and Asylum Greatsword.

If you wanted to add a bleed sub-theme to this mix, you might get some millage out of Blooddrinker instead of Hundings, with the Master's Battleaxe.

To be fair, it wouldn't be vet trials good. If you're looking at doing vet dungeons, you might want to swap out Werewolf for Flawless Dawnbreaker, Corrosive Armor, or Standard of Might. It kinda depends on how strongly you want to commit to the theme.

Damianos

Redguard - Warden - Bow/Dual Weapons

starkerealm wrote: »

Damianos wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Imperial, Werewolf, DK. Possibly 2h with Executioner and Bow with Poison Injection. You're looking at Sheer Venom (with those two skills), viper, and or Vomitdeath (Velidreth). Obviously, if you choose Vomitdeath, you're going to pass on trying to put together Viper and Sheer. Dump Sheer, pick up Agility Jewelry, probably grab an Asylum Greatsword (or Maul for PvP), and a Master's Bow.

Why would I choose Werewolf over Vampire? I wouldn't use the Ultimate from Werewolf, which is required to have the regen bonus, where Vampire is just passives.

Werewolf has a disease damage ability. Also, yes, you want it slotted, and you probably want to use it. To be fair, it's more of a theme choice. Vampire can deal poison damage, but that Mistform morph is... "not great."

Though, in retrospect, @Jamini is correct. You'd probably be better off with Hundings Rage + Agility + Vomitdeath, + Master's Bow/Asylum Bow (Master's would be slightly better for you), and Asylum Greatsword.

If you wanted to add a bleed sub-theme to this mix, you might get some millage out of Blooddrinker instead of Hundings, with the Master's Battleaxe.

To be fair, it wouldn't be vet trials good. If you're looking at doing vet dungeons, you might want to swap out Werewolf for Flawless Dawnbreaker, Corrosive Armor, or Standard of Might. It kinda depends on how strongly you want to commit to the theme.

My goal is to fully commit to the theme, which is why I thought that Defiler/Eternal Hunt would be ideal initially to go with Velidreth's two piece. So while in battle, I would have various spores, clouds, and other diseasey things flying about. I hadn't really considered Werewolf, simply due to being required to keep the ultimate on my bar to make use of it. (I've never been a werewolf, only a vampire, so I probably didn't give that a fair glance.)

I'll be honest here, I don't normally do Vet Trials, and I've done all but Falkreath, Maelstrom Arena and Halls of Fabrication on normal and all of Veteran Dungeons (except Falkreath and DSA) but no Veteran Trials, but as a healer. I just want something new, I'm tired of healing and I don't have the first clue about how to tank in this game.

starkerealm

PlagueSD wrote: »

Bosmer nightblade. That's what I currently run. Using Viper's Sting/Briarheart/Stormfist sets with poison's on my weapons.

Yeah, my Bosmer NB is running Sheer + Viper. That's a rather nice, vicious, little setup. Might switch out Viper for Briarheart though. I'm rather fond of that set and it does work nicely on a NB.

Jamini

Bosmer - Dragonknight - Bow/Dual Weapons

I would not recommend werewolf unless you wanted to play a werewolf build. WW is useless unless transformed, and transformed werewolves tend to go down very fast as everyone and their mother knows to hit them with poison and dawnbreakers. Vampire is superior in 99% situations. The fire weakness is marginal, and the boost to regen (10% mag/stam) is worth it. Additionally, I've never see a competitive WW build for PvE DPS.

Though, in retrospect, @Jamini is correct. You'd probably be better off with Hundings Rage + Agility + Vomitdeath, + Master's Bow/Asylum Bow (Master's would be slightly better for you), and Asylum Greatsword.

The Asylum Bow is garbage unless you are running a pure bow PvP only build. It's awful compared to Master (You always have poison injection up) and vMA bows(this bow will give you 3k DPS by itself roughly. It's that good).

@Damianos mentioned they were going for DW/Bow only. So let's not go recommending 2H builds please. For PvP on a Bosmer StamDK I'd recommend a vMA axe over an Asylum axe anyway. (Asylum is a good off-weapon for tanks.) . The ability to apply four dots in two casts is very strong. (Crit charge with double poison > venom claw)

Loralai_907

Bosmer - Dragonknight - Bow/Dual Weapons

While I can't say for sure that this is optimal, I had a poison build using my Bosmer DK. It was kind of fun. I picked DK because of the 2 poison skills and she had Velidreth and Viper on. Bow has some poison skills as well. There is another poison skill I think under Undaunted but I never got around to seeing if it was worth using on either bar. Also, I only used her in standard PvE stuff. Not sure how she would have done in group dungeons or PvP with her set up. Also made her a WW. Keep in mind this was ages ago, she's mostly moved past her lets do ALL the poison damage phase.

starkerealm

Damianos wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Damianos wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Imperial, Werewolf, DK. Possibly 2h with Executioner and Bow with Poison Injection. You're looking at Sheer Venom (with those two skills), viper, and or Vomitdeath (Velidreth). Obviously, if you choose Vomitdeath, you're going to pass on trying to put together Viper and Sheer. Dump Sheer, pick up Agility Jewelry, probably grab an Asylum Greatsword (or Maul for PvP), and a Master's Bow.

Why would I choose Werewolf over Vampire? I wouldn't use the Ultimate from Werewolf, which is required to have the regen bonus, where Vampire is just passives.

Werewolf has a disease damage ability. Also, yes, you want it slotted, and you probably want to use it. To be fair, it's more of a theme choice. Vampire can deal poison damage, but that Mistform morph is... "not great."

Though, in retrospect, @Jamini is correct. You'd probably be better off with Hundings Rage + Agility + Vomitdeath, + Master's Bow/Asylum Bow (Master's would be slightly better for you), and Asylum Greatsword.

If you wanted to add a bleed sub-theme to this mix, you might get some millage out of Blooddrinker instead of Hundings, with the Master's Battleaxe.

To be fair, it wouldn't be vet trials good. If you're looking at doing vet dungeons, you might want to swap out Werewolf for Flawless Dawnbreaker, Corrosive Armor, or Standard of Might. It kinda depends on how strongly you want to commit to the theme.

My goal is to fully commit to the theme, which is why I thought that Defiler/Eternal Hunt would be ideal initially to go with Velidreth's two piece. So while in battle, I would have various spores, clouds, and other diseasey things flying about. I hadn't really considered Werewolf, simply due to being required to keep the ultimate on my bar to make use of it. (I've never been a werewolf, only a vampire, so I probably didn't give that a fair glance.)

I'll be honest here, I don't normally do Vet Trials, and I've done all but Falkreath, Maelstrom Arena and Halls of Fabrication on normal and all of Veteran Dungeons (except Falkreath and DSA) but no Veteran Trials, but as a healer. I just want something new, I'm tired of healing and I don't have the first clue about how to tank in this game.

Well, Werewolf is certainly something different.

If you want to start learning to tank, then a DK, race of your choice, with Fortified Brass is a good starting point. Long term you'd probably work up to something like some combination of Ebons, Alkosh, Plauge Doctor, but, for learning the ropes, FortBrass is a good set of training wheels.

Jamini

Bosmer - Dragonknight - Bow/Dual Weapons

Eh, fortified brass is way overkill for tanking. Purple Torug's + Infused Crusher Enchant is much better. I'd also recommend Dragonguard over Plague Doctor unless you plan to main tank The Warrior. Fortified brass on heavy is going to push you over armor cap and end up massively wasted. It's more of a medium/light set for folks that want more defense in those armors.

Damianos

Redguard - Warden - Bow/Dual Weapons

Jamini wrote: »

@Damianos mentioned they were going for DW/Bow only.)

^^ This please!

On that note, how is the survivability with DKs? I realize I may have to spend some time fighting the loading screen boss in Cyrodiil to get (the only character I don't have it on) vigor, but can it survive decently without it?

Jamini

Bosmer - Dragonknight - Bow/Dual Weapons

Damianos wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

@Damianos mentioned they were going for DW/Bow only.)

^^ This please!

On that note, how is the survivability with DKs? I realize I may have to spend some time fighting the loading screen boss in Cyrodiil to get (the only character I don't have it on) vigor, but can it survive decently without it?

Depends on your bar setup. Vigor is really only useful in a few situations (vMA and PvP, The Warrior starfall phase, and soloing, Planer Inhibitor) but the situations it is useful in are pretty broad. You are going to want to get it.

Solo - Vigor is amazing and you should get it. Green Dragon Blood is a substitute, but frankly vigor is better. You will absolutely need vigor for vMA if you want to do it on a stamina character. No exceptions.
PvP - Slot vigor as soon as you get it. You should absolutely run vigor alongside GDB or Igneous shield. (GDB lasts longer and gives major endurence, Igneous buffs the healing more and applies to people other than yourself. Always cast vigor BEFORE you use GDB or Igneous, and rally directly after). For PvP I would also highly, highly recommend using a 2H and Rally. DW simply does not compare to the burst and self-healing that you get from 2H. As a medium armor user, shuffle is also a must.
Group - Assuming your healer isn't pants, you shouldn't need much more than Blood Craze to keep yourself up in most groups. (During trials I swap that out for Deadly Cloak and rely on healers). Green Dragon Blood is an "okay" substitute for vigor, but vigor is the better skill.

Hardened Armor really depends on preference. IT does give a lot of resistances, but it is not often worth the bar space to run on a damage setup.

On a dragonknight you also will get a full heal and resource return when you use your ultimate. For a StamDK this would be Standard of Might or Ballista. (with flawless DB on your DW bar)

PlagueSD

Bosmer - Nightblade - Bow/Dual Weapons

starkerealm wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

Bosmer nightblade. That's what I currently run. Using Viper's Sting/Briarheart/Stormfist sets with poison's on my weapons.

Yeah, my Bosmer NB is running Sheer + Viper. That's a rather nice, vicious, little setup. Might switch out Viper for Briarheart though. I'm rather fond of that set and it does work nicely on a NB.

Yeah, I looked at the Sheer Venom set, but don't like that it only procs from an "execute" ability and does less overall DPS. Also, Viper's works with AOE melee attacks, so "Spin to win" procs it on ALL mobs.

Sheer Venom: (1404.66 DPS)
5 items) When you deal damage with an Execute ability you infect the enemy, dealing 8428 Poison Damage over 6 seconds. The effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

Viper's Sting: (1600 DPS)
(5 items) When you deal damage with a Melee Attack, you deal an additional 6400 Poison damage over 4 seconds. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds

Viper's does more DPS and procs more often. Plus, the additional weapon crit helps with the Briarheart proc rate since you have to crit to get the 5-pc bonus.

Briarheart:
(5 items) When you deal Critical Damage, you have a 10% chance to increase your Weapon Damage by 449 for 10 seconds. While this effect is active, your Critical Strikes heal you for 609 Health. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.

Raudgrani

A high stamina DK, for sure. Werewolf, naturally - as it has disease damage, and two strong dots, and you will put loads of points into Befoul, Thaumaturge and Mighty. A couple of good sets are Morag Tong and Sheer Venom, but you'd need to combine any such poison damage oriented set with something for max stamina, obviously. Perhaps Hulking Draugr, if you will have no problem with recovery (because of race and/or food).

There are really nasty poisons you could use, I'd recommend something with Minor Defile and Minor Vulnerability, to make the dot ticks even more nasty. Apply those and like stun them afterwards with Stonefist or Petrify. Try to make sure you got a nice crit, as that's a huge difference on these kind of builds.

Same with werewolf, ideally apply light attack bleed and Claws of Anguish disease, immediately fear - then heavy attack and Howl of Agony. Some say Fear ---> Howl of Agony, but that's often not enough. I usually go Fear - HA - Howl, few people stay alive with that; especially while having like two dots of around 20-25k dmg each on at the same time. Basically, only templars might.

starkerealm

PlagueSD wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

Bosmer nightblade. That's what I currently run. Using Viper's Sting/Briarheart/Stormfist sets with poison's on my weapons.

Yeah, my Bosmer NB is running Sheer + Viper. That's a rather nice, vicious, little setup. Might switch out Viper for Briarheart though. I'm rather fond of that set and it does work nicely on a NB.

Yeah, I looked at the Sheer Venom set, but don't like that it only procs from an "execute" ability and does less overall DPS. Also, Viper's works with AOE melee attacks, so "Spin to win" procs it on ALL mobs.

I'd have to double check to be 100% certain, but I'm pretty sure Whirlwind will proc Sheer, so you fire it off and apply both effects on your first hit, for damage that's damn near Vomitdeath output.

EDIT: Of the two, I prefer sticking Sheer on a 2h build, because it gives you better control of who you apply it to. Stacking Sheer, Viper, and Velindreth on a single character would require completing one of them on the DW. Best money there would be to complete Viper with a dagger (since the bow can't proc it), then have complete Sheer for your bow and Whirlwind.

EDIT2: Oh, again, I'd need to double check to be completely certain, but I'm pretty sure Viper only applies to the first target you hit with a melee AOE. Whirlwind will (usually) apply both DoTs to the same target.

PlagueSD

Bosmer - Nightblade - Bow/Dual Weapons

starkerealm wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

Bosmer nightblade. That's what I currently run. Using Viper's Sting/Briarheart/Stormfist sets with poison's on my weapons.

Yeah, my Bosmer NB is running Sheer + Viper. That's a rather nice, vicious, little setup. Might switch out Viper for Briarheart though. I'm rather fond of that set and it does work nicely on a NB.

Yeah, I looked at the Sheer Venom set, but don't like that it only procs from an "execute" ability and does less overall DPS. Also, Viper's works with AOE melee attacks, so "Spin to win" procs it on ALL mobs.

I'd have to double check to be 100% certain, but I'm pretty sure Whirlwind will proc Sheer, so you fire it off and apply both effects on your first hit, for damage that's damn near Vomitdeath output.

EDIT: Of the two, I prefer sticking Sheer on a 2h build, because it gives you better control of who you apply it to. Stacking Sheer, Viper, and Velindreth on a single character would require completing one of them on the DW. Best money there would be to complete Viper with a dagger (since the bow can't proc it), then have complete Sheer for your bow and Whirlwind.

EDIT2: Oh, again, I'd need to double check to be completely certain, but I'm pretty sure Viper only applies to the first target you hit with a melee AOE. Whirlwind will (usually) apply both DoTs to the same target.

Right, but Vipers does an additional 200DPS over Sheer Venom proc. Why would you NOT go with the additional DPS?

CardboardedBox

My main is an orc(that's wearing the goblin morph 24/7) werewolf dk that is solely built around slapping everything with poison dots to watch them melt, with a hint of disease. It's "ok", but I always feel my survivability is....lacking.

Right now he's got Velidrith, hundings, and unfathomable darkness, but I will probably swap out unfathomable at some point for something that either keeps me alive, or fits the theme better. I just liked the crows.

And dual wielding is main, bow secondary. Disease enchants.

I mostly made this as a sort of gimmicky visuals thing. Like form over function. I wanted to make a character designed specifically to fit the goblin, and i felt like goblins would be very resilient to toxins and disease due to their rough living conditions, so that's the build I went for.

But it's been working good for me so far, and Im pretty bad at this game.