Major Defile on Snipe

Quantum_V

Hey guys,

I think most of us can agree Defile overall this patch is very strong. Scales insanely well from CP and it's pretty easy to access for any player.

• NBs have incap
• Wardens have spores
• DKs have banner
• Any disease enchantment can proc defile
• Reverb applies defile, any S&B class can have that
• Probably more that I forgot to mention

Does snipe, a very hard hitting ranged ability that can hit you with 2 arrows before you're able to CC break the first one (if you get attacked from stealth) has to apply major defile too?
Maybe make it do something else for the caster?

• Empower your next attack
• give the caster a speed buff
• Idk, any other ideas?

What do you guys think?

DKsUnite

Just use wings you poor excuse for a DK

idk

Bow already has native access to a speed buff and do you really want to change defile for the next snipe being empowered?

Considering this is the first time I have seen this being complained about in 3.5 years visiting these forums I am not thinking this is the biggest focus players have had with snipe. Granted, I have been wrong before and idk.

Quantum_V

idk wrote: »

Bow already has native access to a speed buff and do you really want to change defile for the next snipe being empowered?

Considering this is the first time I have seen this being complained about in 3.5 years visiting these forums I am not thinking this is the biggest focus players have had with snipe. Granted, I have been wrong before and idk.

I agree with you, this is clearly not the biggest focus players have. It's something I was so used to that I didn't even realize how much I disagree with receiving major defile from this skill. Maybe I only noticed it after they buffed defile, haha.

Quantum_V

DKsUnite wrote: »

Just use wings you poor excuse for a DK

Leo, you better than anyone knows that wings work 50% of the time, and that 50% you don't get ZoSed you still have the misadventure of being defiled... and wings reflect the projectile not the debuff of hell it brings with it. haha

Raudgrani

I use a nasty poison with with Minor Fracture/Vulnerability/Defile, and when that Lethal Arrow one hits with poison proc, I should have a 60% healing debuff (I put a lot of focus on Befoul CP). I can see people desperately trying to heal out of the following Poison Injection, or just generally when I Ambush them and so on, after I landed that Snipe (which initially hits for like 10-12k on crit). Frankly, it's pretty awful.

ShadowProc

Is this post a coincidence now that Miats is going away? Lol. There is a sound. It has a long cast time. It is balanced.

SodanTok

Fine, but put Major Defile on Acid Spray or Poison Injection (without nerfing anything about it)

I could care less if Xv1 loses major defile from snipe, but do not try remove major defile from snipe ganking.

DDuke

SodanTok wrote: »

Fine, but put Major Defile on Acid Spray or Poison Injection (without nerfing anything about it)

I could care less if Xv1 loses major defile from snipe, but do not try remove major defile from snipe ganking.

Well, tbh the Major Defile isn't really that useful for bow builds.


I mean, if your burst fails to kill the target there's not much you can do as bow build, no good follow-up, execute or sustained DPS skill to capitalize on that heal debuff, no ranged CC to prevent your opponent from just shielding up or dodging your next attacks etc.


I'd gladly have Empower or something else instead :P

coplannb16_ESO

ok remove defile, but make it undodgable. It is a Snipe afterall

SodanTok

DDuke wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Fine, but put Major Defile on Acid Spray or Poison Injection (without nerfing anything about it)

I could care less if Xv1 loses major defile from snipe, but do not try remove major defile from snipe ganking.

Well, tbh the Major Defile isn't really that useful for bow builds.


I mean, if your burst fails to kill the target there's not much you can do as bow build, no good follow-up, execute or sustained DPS skill to capitalize on that heal debuff, no ranged CC to prevent your opponent from just shielding up or dodging your next attacks etc.


I'd gladly have Empower or something else instead :P

While true, half the time it feels the reason you are allowed to burst them (this time for good) again is because they are still dealing with the befoul buffed Major Defile and Poison Injection that chips them (slowly...) down. Without it I dont think there would be anything else to do, other than just getting even more damage on the first burst (like the mentioned empower) which would just make you kill more targets than before, but those that survive would simply be unkillable.

I guess that is not something important in duels or when fighting actually good people. But snipe ganking without Major Defile would for me simply meant that at some HP level it would simply be impossible to fight some people no matter how bad they are. With defile, every less skilled person dies eventually.

NirnStorm

Quantum_V wrote: »

What do you guys think?

Interesting ideas, Quantum.
I've gotten so used to getting sniped repeatedly in 1vX scenarios I didn't even try to think whether the effect makes sense or not.

I don't think these suggestions for effects to replace the defile are just right, tho.
We are looking for a way to reduce the effectiveness of snipe in Xv1s but not nerf it to the point it becomes useless in 1v1s, right?
Empower will just make the next snipe hit harder and speed buff is easy to get for bow users anyways.

Then what if instead of defile, snipe had minor hindrance?
It will lose effectiveness in Xv1s because the one player who gets zerged won't be effected by major defile as soon as snipe hits, it will make it so bow builds can have an easier time running away if they didn't get the kill, and make it easier for gank builds that only use bow in the start of their rotation to keep on the target even after they broke free, even if they cloack or streak, then they can apply the defile with incap or any other method.

Thoughts?

Thogard

I’m OK with snipe having defile.

But the befoul passive as a whole needs to be turned down a bit.

Quantum_V

NirnStorm wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

What do you guys think?

Interesting ideas, Quantum.
I've gotten so used to getting sniped repeatedly in 1vX scenarios I didn't even try to think whether the effect makes sense or not.

I don't think these suggestions for effects to replace the defile are just right, tho.
We are looking for a way to reduce the effectiveness of snipe in Xv1s but not nerf it to the point it becomes useless in 1v1s, right?
Empower will just make the next snipe hit harder and speed buff is easy to get for bow users anyways.

Then what if instead of defile, snipe had minor hindrance?
It will lose effectiveness in Xv1s because the one player who gets zerged won't be effected by major defile as soon as snipe hits, it will make it so bow builds can have an easier time running away if they didn't get the kill, and make it easier for gank builds that only use bow in the start of their rotation to keep on the target even after they broke free, even if they cloack or streak, then they can apply the defile with incap or any other method.

Thoughts?

Yeah, that could be a good way to make it work. I honestly think though that we also don't need more snares in the game... haha... Maybe minor/major vulnerability might work.

I just don't think defiles - such a strong debuff - should be flying around left and right.

olsborg

I only think defile is what needs to get slightly nerfed. Every major defile procc should be reduced in duration, and how much it scales from cp aswell should get reduced. Some defiles (depending on source) last from 6 to 10 seconds, the global duration of this debuff should be 6s...not some abilities with 10s.

Quantum_V

Thogard wrote: »

I’m OK with snipe having defile.

But the befoul passive as a whole needs to be turned down a bit.

Yeah, this might be the general solution tbh. Defile just scales so well. ZoS tried fixing unkillable tanks but messed up with everyone else.

idk

Quantum_V wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Bow already has native access to a speed buff and do you really want to change defile for the next snipe being empowered?

Considering this is the first time I have seen this being complained about in 3.5 years visiting these forums I am not thinking this is the biggest focus players have had with snipe. Granted, I have been wrong before and idk.

I agree with you, this is clearly not the biggest focus players have. It's something I was so used to that I didn't even realize how much I disagree with receiving major defile from this skill. Maybe I only noticed it after they buffed defile, haha.

Block the snipe. Cleans the debuff. I have not been killed by snipe in a long time. And no, I have never had Miats on my PC.

It really does not seem many agree with you. idk, maybe this thread will game more attention in a few more days.

Quantum_V

idk wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Bow already has native access to a speed buff and do you really want to change defile for the next snipe being empowered?

Considering this is the first time I have seen this being complained about in 3.5 years visiting these forums I am not thinking this is the biggest focus players have had with snipe. Granted, I have been wrong before and idk.

I agree with you, this is clearly not the biggest focus players have. It's something I was so used to that I didn't even realize how much I disagree with receiving major defile from this skill. Maybe I only noticed it after they buffed defile, haha.

Block the snipe. Cleans the debuff. I have not been killed by snipe in a long time. And no, I have never had Miats on my PC.

It really does not seem many agree with you. idk, maybe this thread will game more attention in a few more days.

In all honesty, I have never died to a snipe on a 1v1 scenario. It only really affects you when you're getting Xv1ed.
My problem with this skill is it's fundamental mechanics - basically allowing you to mind-numbingly spam one of (if not the best) debuffs in the game from the back of a zerg and get away with it.

idk wrote: »

Block the snipe. Cleanse the debuff.

If you pay close attention to my thread, blocking the snipe is not even close to what we're debating here. Blocking only mitigates the damage, and considering I proposed an empower to snipe, I clearly don't have an issue with snipe's damage component. Moreover, purifying is only a solution for templars - and this doesn't address the main issue being debated here.

Thogard

idk wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Bow already has native access to a speed buff and do you really want to change defile for the next snipe being empowered?

Considering this is the first time I have seen this being complained about in 3.5 years visiting these forums I am not thinking this is the biggest focus players have had with snipe. Granted, I have been wrong before and idk.

I agree with you, this is clearly not the biggest focus players have. It's something I was so used to that I didn't even realize how much I disagree with receiving major defile from this skill. Maybe I only noticed it after they buffed defile, haha.

Block the snipe. Cleans the debuff. I have not been killed by snipe in a long time. And no, I have never had Miats on my PC.

It really does not seem many agree with you. idk, maybe this thread will game more attention in a few more days.

um i'm gonna need a fact check on that.

Laggus

Quantum you and I have chatted about this in game and I completely agree with you in a 1v1 you wouldn't die to a Sniper or any type of bow build main build imo.
I use a build built around Lethal Arrow being the main skill used. To make it anyway viable I had to completely go glass cannon, so much so that a stiff breeze will knock me over. Its also a build that can the difference between X occasionally killing the 1vX'rs. If the 1vX'r is running with a pocket healer then the defile is hardly enough.

I've defiled you (in the gaming sense) got you to a few K HP and still see you heal straight back to full HP within a second or 2 and then do this repeatedly, so it's not even health pots. Defile is not the problem here imo it's healing.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

empower it so the second arrow you speak of hits 20% harder, that’s a bad idea I think. Speed bonus already is native to bow. Not sure what else would make it a competitive choice against the other morph if you removed defile.

Anyways. You’re build is tanky with damage to the point it’s on the verge of trolling regardless of armor type you’re wearing. You’re telling me lethal arrow affects you? It’s like saying “hey, I was fighting 15 people the other day and a 16th showed up and shot me with lethal arrow and that’s why I died, ZoS please fix”. Uber rediculous. If anything that’s a compliment, not a dis, but seriously.

Nerf this nerf that.....it’s out of hand. I’m not saying there aren’t things that need tweaks but people talk about things that don’t need any changes and it detracts from stuff that does.

Solariken

Please close this thread and make a "nerf stealth" thread instead. Seriously Snipe itself is not that threatening - you know it, I know it, everybody knows it.

What makes this even more hilarious is that any time I find you open world and try to Snipe combo you, the only person likely to be defiled is me. XD

Vaoh

I’ve been playing a Medium Armor Bow/Bow Stam Sorc lately. 5x Marksmans, 5x Impregnable, Perfected Asylum Bow and Maelstrom Bow.

It’s honestly a very fun way to play, but the build is easily hardcountered and (because I’m not wearing Heavy Armor and/or using 1H/S) easy to burst. But if I happen to come across another Medium Armor build or most Templars? Easy win because of Major Defile. The strength of the heal debuff combined with CP needs to be toned down a bit.

A Bow-based playstyle is possible atm because of Lethal Arrow combined with the Asylum Bow. No need to nerf this skill just to quiet QQers.

What Snipe needs is a FIX to the abusable “mechanic” where you can purposely have multiple Snipes land simultaneously for ridiculous burst damage. You can do this from stealth basically at will if you know how. I don’t do it but I’ve been killed by it at least once every time I enter Cyrodiil. That travel time is very buggy and even worse in lag.

Domander

It absolutely needs that major defile, it's very hard to secure a kill with a bow against a player that knows how to defend against it.

Draxys

How about this: it does nothing else, because it’s already a high damage ability that can used from the safety of stealth and range.

DDuke

Draxys wrote: »

How about this: it does nothing else, because it’s already a high damage ability that can used from the safety of stealth and range.

Let's apply the same doctrine to all the other skills that deal high damage and can be used from the safety of stealth and range: Crystal Blast/Frags, Flame Reach, Dark Flare, Bow Heavy Attacks, Inferno Staff Heavy Attacks, Overload Light Attacks, Screaming Cliff Racer etc etc

On that list there's several skills that deal significantly more damage than Snipe from stealth (unless combo'd Asylum Bow, in which case it's 20m range).

CrazYDunm3r

Okay take a look at this: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ANDKQqgQsN4

If people suggest using wings, it should work isn't it? Or can someone else explain what it wrong with this? In the recap you can see the arrows did hit me. I was doing 1vX and I notice a great amount of times wings just don't work very well.

Edit was grammar related.

Toc de Malsvi

CrazYDunm3r wrote: »

Okay take a look at this: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ANDKQqgQsN4

If people suggest using wings, it should work isn't it? Or can someone else explain what it wrong with this? In the recap you can see the arrows did hit me. I was doing 1vX and I notice a great amount of times wings just don't work very well.

Edit was grammar related.

You were engaged with at least 5 people. 2 on the ground, 2 on the platform with you, and one Sniping from the tower. It is very very likely that your 4 projectile limit had been reached almost instantly. Beyond that there is an existing glitch where if you refresh your wings to early the projectile limit will not be refreshed.

This has nothing to do with Snipe or even Major Defile. You were fighting 5 people and standing out in the open. You should never skyline yourself against 5 opponents.

There are video's of individuals doing the same thing with Dark Flare with greater effectiveness. I'm not saying that Snipe from stealth cannot glitch out, I'm saying Snipe from stealth glitching out isn't why you died there. As well as Snipe from stealth glitching out does not change the fact that Snipe is a weak skill that is easily mitigated.

Defile from Dark Flare is much more problematic than defile from Lethal Arrow, Dark Flare will still apply defile even if it misses. Neither are all that strong unless you just take them to the face without mitigating them. Defile is quite important to having a chance to kill anyone with a bow.

CrazYDunm3r

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

CrazYDunm3r wrote: »

Okay take a look at this: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ANDKQqgQsN4

If people suggest using wings, it should work isn't it? Or can someone else explain what it wrong with this? In the recap you can see the arrows did hit me. I was doing 1vX and I notice a great amount of times wings just don't work very well.

Edit was grammar related.

You were engaged with at least 5 people. 2 on the ground, 2 on the platform with you, and one Sniping from the tower. It is very very likely that your 4 projectile limit had been reached almost instantly. Beyond that there is an existing glitch where if you refresh your wings to early the projectile limit will not be refreshed.

This has nothing to do with Snipe or even Major Defile. You were fighting 5 people and standing out in the open. You should never skyline yourself against 5 opponents.

There are video's of individuals doing the same thing with Dark Flare with greater effectiveness. I'm not saying that Snipe from stealth cannot glitch out, I'm saying Snipe from stealth glitching out isn't why you died there. As well as Snipe from stealth glitching out does not change the fact that Snipe is a weak skill that is easily mitigated.

Defile from Dark Flare is much more problematic than defile from Lethal Arrow, Dark Flare will still apply defile even if it misses. Neither are all that strong unless you just take them to the face without mitigating them. Defile is quite important to having a chance to kill anyone with a bow.

Ok thanks for your clear answer. Still in this case I didn't see 4 snipes, but before I indeed reapplied wings whilst already getting sniped so they bug might have been the reason.

montjie

Whos running Snipe on a solo build anyway? Its just as dumb as Dark Flare on a solo build. Abilities like that work best when you have (all) the time and freedom to cast them..Which is when you outnumber an enemy so having major defile applied too is just overkill imo.

jhharvest

Maim instead of defile, perhaps? "Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot"