Motifs.

jaye63

I was wondering and hadnt seen anything like this idea so... here goes.

Why cant some one who knows a whole motif set craft pages to sell? I realize the monitization of some of the motifs so maybe a crown item required to do it, but shouldnt this be a thing???

Taleof2Cities

Flipping crown items for gold would not be in the game’s best interest. Players that can’t afford crowns in real life would be at huge disadvantage.

It’s not something ZOS has shown interest in ... and I’m not sure why new threads on this topic keep popping up when there are already existing discussions.

badmojo

So one person buys a motif and gives out pages to their entire guild? No thanks.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

You just suggested removing the necessity for crafters to actually play the game AND that ZOS give us a means of converting crowns to in game currancy (cash to gold) in a 3 line post. That's a solid days work right there.

Ummm...... Dislike.

jaye63

Huh?
Ok... Grim Harlequin is one of the Crown store only(as well as others) and you can get several of the motif sets that are farmed with crowns(if you dont want to farm them). Your doom and gloom is silly. I can buy the motifs with crowns and then have people pay me gold and materials to make them. How is that different than what I proposed?

You want to make an argument, pick something that actually makes sense.

Edit: Your *flipping crowns* is a silly argument since I can buy motifs with crowns and get gold by crafting the sets.
If some one wants to spend real money and then give stuff away, I guess that would be their choice. But I dont see anyone who spends that kind of time getting 9 traited and then not making gold from it.
And it gives more incentive to crafters to actually spend $$.

lillybit

I think if they were to implement something like this, then the created pages would end up being bound. Same way as motifs bought in the crown store are bound. It would be useful for learning new motifs on an alt but not to make gold

davey1107

It’s not necessary for people to be as rude as they are, lol, but your idea wouldn’t work. The game depends on balanced supply and demand to function. There would be a couple of systems that could be implemented to accomplish what you ask:

1. Allow known motifs to be crafted with no significant materials. In other words, a crafter doesn’t need ten kuta or transmute stones to create a page. They just pay a little gold or something and poof.

Under this system, the motif market would collapse. The value of all motifs would become whatever minimal investment is necessary, and crafters would accept this to create endless copies. Probably the biggest effect would be the reduction in play time...getting a page falls from ~45 minutes of play to 30 seconds to make a copy.

2. Allow motif generation from either an existing currency or new currency. They could roll out a version of transmute stones for motifs - fifty stones and you can create your non-bound copy.

The economic implications here are more subtle, but predictable. The “motifmute stones” would take X amount of time to collect enough, so they would assume a defined economic value...let’s say the market settles at an approximate value of $20,000 gold for enough stones to make one copy. It doesn’t matter if they’re bound or not, the final result is tradable so they’d have some sort of specific value. Under such a system, motifs worth less than $20k wouldn’t be worth copying, so those would still be traded in stores. But expensive and rare motifs would be worth copying...and now the effective value of every page is capped at $20k. This would also destroy the market...just in a different way. Now no one would spend hours opening 2,000 chests to get arminger pages...everyone would wait until one person got it, then churn copies at $20k each.

I’d note that we could implement a workaround to protect the market and allow copies. Like a player might be able to make one copy every 30 days. But almost any workaround is going to be cumbersome and less efficient than...

3. ...Allow motif pages to be sold in stores and priced by players. This is the system we have now, and it works more efficiently than anything else could. Players who want motif pages have the option to go grind gold in order to buy from players with extras. It’s really not any different than what you’re suggesting, except that the source of motifs is copies made by Zos through the game mechanics and not copies made by players.

jaye63

Always doom and gloom excuses. You're just scared about losing your cash cow. 5000 crowns to make a book(same as it costs to buy the set from the store) for every set you make. It's not going to crash the economy. You're narrow minded and short sighted. You're not going to lose your cash cow. And ZOS makes money. Pretty sure no one is going to make millions of books. 5k/14 = 357 so 400 crowns for one page. Seriously... look passed your own and on to reality.

Slick_007

jaye63 wrote: »

Always doom and gloom excuses. You're just scared about losing your cash cow. 5000 crowns to make a book(same as it costs to buy the set from the store) for every set you make. It's not going to crash the economy. You're narrow minded and short sighted. You're not going to lose your cash cow. And ZOS makes money. Pretty sure no one is going to make millions of books. 5k/14 = 357 so 400 crowns for one page. Seriously... look passed your own and on to reality.

those people who have motifs either put in gold or time and effort. Sometimes you need one, sometimes the other. you want to remove one of those methods because it appears, you are too lazy to put the effort in that others have. You want to devalue their efforts in collecting these.

Taleof2Cities

@Slick_007 is right.

Not to mention that there wouldn’t be any incentive to do content where motifs are currently found.

Feric51

I had an idea on another thread that I don't feel like digging out right now, but basically went like this:

Currently (although this is now going to change with the Dragon Bones DLC) you can earn glass motif fragments from doing daily writs. Combine ten fragments and purchase a 10k resin and you are given a random glass motif chapter.

I proposed that instead of "glass" motif fragment, crafting writs have a chance to drop generic "motif fragments" that aren't specific to any one type of motif. Then, the mystic can sell various resins for multiple motif sets. Table below for details:

Random glass motif chapter = 10 motif fragments + $10k resin (current system)
Random Assassin's League/Xivkyn/Mercenary motif chapter = 5 motif fragments + $1k resin (awarded chapter can be any of the listed three motifs)
Dominion/Covenant/Pact chapter = 10 fragments + $5k resin
Trinimac/Ancient Orc/Malacath chapter = 15 fragments + $10k resin (or 10 fragments + $15k resin... something like that)
etc etc
Buoyant Armiger chapter = 50 fragments + $50k resin

This allows ZoS a gold sink (for resins), but also gives crafters a personal reward for doing daily writs either through saving fragments for themselves, or selling them in traders the way glass motif fragments are currently sold.

This system would not replace the current motif chapter drop system, as they would continue to be found the way they already are, it would just supplement it.

jaye63

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

@Slick_007 is right.

Not to mention that there wouldn’t be any incentive to do content where motifs are currently found.

Seriously? There isnt one piece of gear, one achievement, one of ANYTHING you would go after in those zones? Seriously? Do you think or do you just troll?

And the other side of this that you're not looking at is that less that 25% of the population actually crafts. So if you're going to make an argument, make one based in fact, not how you feel from reading the post.

Feric51 wrote: »

I had an idea on another thread that I don't feel like digging out right now, but basically went like this:

Currently (although this is now going to change with the Dragon Bones DLC) you can earn glass motif fragments from doing daily writs. Combine ten fragments and purchase a 10k resin and you are given a random glass motif chapter.

I proposed that instead of "glass" motif fragment, crafting writs have a chance to drop generic "motif fragments" that aren't specific to any one type of motif. Then, the mystic can sell various resins for multiple motif sets. Table below for details:

Random glass motif chapter = 10 motif fragments + $10k resin (current system)
Random Assassin's League/Xivkyn/Mercenary motif chapter = 5 motif fragments + $1k resin (awarded chapter can be any of the listed three motifs)
Dominion/Covenant/Pact chapter = 10 fragments + $5k resin
Trinimac/Ancient Orc/Malacath chapter = 15 fragments + $10k resin (or 10 fragments + $15k resin... something like that)
etc etc
Buoyant Armiger chapter = 50 fragments + $50k resin

This allows ZoS a gold sink (for resins), but also gives crafters a personal reward for doing daily writs either through saving fragments for themselves, or selling them in traders the way glass motif fragments are currently sold.

This system would not replace the current motif chapter drop system, as they would continue to be found the way they already are, it would just supplement it.

Well, that's basically a FREE item that you buy with ingame gold so... didnt cost you anything in real $$. I thought about that myself and the fact that you can buy a lot of the motifs from the crown store says... no way ZOS does that. It's why I suggested a Crown store ingredient for the privilege of crafting pages or books. Either that or make them ALL available in the crown store AND giftable.

jaye63

oh... and if you're talking about in game gold... lets keep it easier to read. Every time some one puts $ next to 50k it makes it look like real dollars. Dont put the $ for gold. When you say 50k, we get the point. It's morning, my car blew a hose in this below freezing weather and I havent had enough coffee to deal ... thanks.

Feric51

jaye63 wrote: »

oh... and if you're talking about in game gold... lets keep it easier to read. Every time some one puts $ next to 50k it makes it look like real dollars. Dont put the $ for gold. When you say 50k, we get the point. It's morning, my car blew a hose in this below freezing weather and I havent had enough coffee to deal ... thanks.

Really, you're going to complain about over-clarification? I put the $ character up there to show that it's the price of the item and not the quantity required. You may have understood what I meant without the symbol, but you're not the only person reading this forums, and someone else might not have understood.

And before you vent your blown hose problems on me, take in the fact that I wasn't poo-pooing your idea, just offering another option.

JKorr

jaye63 wrote: »

Huh?
Ok... Grim Harlequin is one of the Crown store only(as well as others) and you can get several of the motif sets that are farmed with crowns(if you dont want to farm them). Your doom and gloom is silly. I can buy the motifs with crowns and then have people pay me gold and materials to make them. How is that different than what I proposed?

You want to make an argument, pick something that actually makes sense.

Edit: Your *flipping crowns* is a silly argument since I can buy motifs with crowns and get gold by crafting the sets.
If some one wants to spend real money and then give stuff away, I guess that would be their choice. But I dont see anyone who spends that kind of time getting 9 traited and then not making gold from it.
And it gives more incentive to crafters to actually spend $$.

They pay *you*. Every time they want a set, they pay you.

You craft motif pages and sell them. Don't worry about the time you'll need to craft gear for others since no one has to pay *you* anymore because they can make the stuff themselves. Now no one has to buy the motif from the crown store. If other players do the same thing no one will pay high prices for any motif pages; if you want to sell your pages, you'll lower the price.

How is that a good thing?

[By the way; two 9 trait crafters; I craft for free for guildies all the time. I'll make gear for random new players for free as well. I never had the idea to use crafting as a way to make gold. Lots of other ways to make gold in the game.]

Slick_007

Feric51 wrote: »

I proposed that instead of "glass" motif fragment, crafting writs have a chance to drop generic "motif fragments" that aren't specific to any one type of motif. Then, the mystic can sell various resins for multiple motif sets. Table below for details:

Random glass motif chapter = 10 motif fragments + $10k resin (current system)
Random Assassin's League/Xivkyn/Mercenary motif chapter = 5 motif fragments + $1k resin (awarded chapter can be any of the listed three motifs)
Dominion/Covenant/Pact chapter = 10 fragments + $5k resin
Trinimac/Ancient Orc/Malacath chapter = 15 fragments + $10k resin (or 10 fragments + $15k resin... something like that)
etc etc
Buoyant Armiger chapter = 50 fragments + $50k resin

This allows ZoS a gold sink (for resins), but also gives crafters a personal reward for doing daily writs either through saving fragments for themselves, or selling them in traders the way glass motif fragments are currently sold.

This system would not replace the current motif chapter drop system, as they would continue to be found the way they already are, it would just supplement it.

crafting is not supposed to get you all the different motifs. if you want all the different motifs, then you need to participate in all the different things required, not do 1 single thing.

Feric51

Slick_007 wrote: »

crafting is not supposed to get you all the different motifs. if you want all the different motifs, then you need to participate in all the different things required, not do 1 single thing.

Believe me, I don't really think the system needs changed from how it is now. I have found/bought all motifs other than portions of Buoy. Arm., Mil. Ord., and the last 4 DLC dungeons, and I'm fine with that. I was simply giving a possible option that might placate some of the complaints that motifs are too hard to get and/or that crafting has lost its value, especially with the upcoming outfit system.

I don't PvP, so I know I'm going to have to buy Militant Ordinator out of traders or find someone wanting to convert AP to gold directly. I don't play enough (not skilled enough) to run vCoS, vRoM, etc to get the dungeon motifs, so I'll have to buy those as well. I'm perfectly OK with that too. I just thought my suggestion might put a value back into crafting. Just don't ask me about my suggestion for Master Writs, I might get exiled from the crafting forum.... lol.

jaye63

JKorr wrote: »

jaye63 wrote: »

Huh?
Ok... Grim Harlequin is one of the Crown store only(as well as others) and you can get several of the motif sets that are farmed with crowns(if you dont want to farm them). Your doom and gloom is silly. I can buy the motifs with crowns and then have people pay me gold and materials to make them. How is that different than what I proposed?

You want to make an argument, pick something that actually makes sense.

Edit: Your *flipping crowns* is a silly argument since I can buy motifs with crowns and get gold by crafting the sets.
If some one wants to spend real money and then give stuff away, I guess that would be their choice. But I dont see anyone who spends that kind of time getting 9 traited and then not making gold from it.
And it gives more incentive to crafters to actually spend $$.

They pay *you*. Every time they want a set, they pay you.

You craft motif pages and sell them. Don't worry about the time you'll need to craft gear for others since no one has to pay *you* anymore because they can make the stuff themselves. Now no one has to buy the motif from the crown store. If other players do the same thing no one will pay high prices for any motif pages; if you want to sell your pages, you'll lower the price.

How is that a good thing?

[By the way; two 9 trait crafters; I craft for free for guildies all the time. I'll make gear for random new players for free as well. I never had the idea to use crafting as a way to make gold. Lots of other ways to make gold in the game.]

And every time you buy the mats, you pay ZOS...
And you're going to pay 5k crowns every time you make a book and give it away free? RIIIIIIIGHT! 54? sets times 5000crowns is 270,000 crowns. That's more than $1,500. I dont know about you personally, but Im not seeing anyone spending $1,500 on 2 million players.

JKorr

jaye63 wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

jaye63 wrote: »

Huh?
Ok... Grim Harlequin is one of the Crown store only(as well as others) and you can get several of the motif sets that are farmed with crowns(if you dont want to farm them). Your doom and gloom is silly. I can buy the motifs with crowns and then have people pay me gold and materials to make them. How is that different than what I proposed?

You want to make an argument, pick something that actually makes sense.

Edit: Your *flipping crowns* is a silly argument since I can buy motifs with crowns and get gold by crafting the sets.
If some one wants to spend real money and then give stuff away, I guess that would be their choice. But I dont see anyone who spends that kind of time getting 9 traited and then not making gold from it.
And it gives more incentive to crafters to actually spend $$.

They pay *you*. Every time they want a set, they pay you.

You craft motif pages and sell them. Don't worry about the time you'll need to craft gear for others since no one has to pay *you* anymore because they can make the stuff themselves. Now no one has to buy the motif from the crown store. If other players do the same thing no one will pay high prices for any motif pages; if you want to sell your pages, you'll lower the price.

How is that a good thing?

[By the way; two 9 trait crafters; I craft for free for guildies all the time. I'll make gear for random new players for free as well. I never had the idea to use crafting as a way to make gold. Lots of other ways to make gold in the game.]

And every time you buy the mats, you pay ZOS...
And you're going to pay 5k crowns every time you make a book and give it away free? RIIIIIIIGHT! 54? sets times 5000crowns is 270,000 crowns. That's more than $1,500. I dont know about you personally, but Im not seeing anyone spending $1,500 on 2 million players.

No, I wouldn't bother to make books. Just like I don't bother to make glass pages. I get the glass fragments. I either vendor them to an npc, or give them away free to someone who is collecting them.

I'm trying to figure out why I would make motif books and sell them to another crafter for whatever price, once, so they can learn the motif. Yes, I would get paid whatever price for the motif, one time. If the other player/crafter doesn't know the motif, I can make gear for them when they want it, and get paid for each and every time I do. One time payment, or more than one payment for each crafting request....hmmm..... Let's see, instead of getting paid for making gear in that style for anyone who doesn't know it, versus getting paid one time for making the motif for them so they can make all the stuff for themselves without paying me any more.

Early release; I hadn't found a khajiit motif book yet. I wanted a khajiit sword. I paid someone to make it for me. Then I paid someone for the book and learned the motif. I didn't have to pay anyone anymore.

I'm not really concerned about 2 million players. I craft for my guildmates for free; I'll craft for randoms for free when I want to. I don't consider the game I play for fun and enjoyment to be a job that requires making gold. Different mindset I guess. I'm subbed, so when ZOS doesn't have senches or cats in the crown store for sale that I want, I'll buy mimic stones. Since I'm NOT crafting for 2 million players, I don't have a problem with it. :shrug:

wayfarerb14_ESO

Hey there! I just wanted you to know that I can tell that this idea means a lot to you! I hope your day settles down and turns around for you.

It has been made clear from the beginning that items that are purchased with crowns are not going to be tradable, especially for in game gold. You did mention the one exception, and that is with crafting the Grim Harlequin and Frostcaller items to sell to players. In my opinion, this exception is more of a loophole, really, and I'm personally willing to overlook it so long as it goes no further than that.

I'm not sure if you were here for the holiday event where they gave out motif pages in the reward boxes. I both loved and loathed that event. I loved it because it helped me complete some motif sets that I was working on completing. And I loathed it because it crashed the motif market. It took MONTHS for it to bounce back and even today motifs aren't selling for nearly as much as they were prior to the event. While it may sound like doom and gloom to someone who wasn't there to witness the event and subsequent crash, it did happen, and it was a beautiful kind of terrible.

So, if we take your fleshed out idea, that it would cost 400 crowns to make one page, thus 5600 crowns to make a full set........wait- why did I just spend $50 real money to make a second copy of a motif again? Also, why would I spend that kind of money to craft a page of a motif that I can easily farm and sell? So it would only really be beneficial for the crown only motif books, since players have no choice but to purchase them with crowns. Were you wanting to be able to craft Grim Harlequin motif pages and Frostcaller motif pages for you friends (or to sell)? I really can't see that happening. Nor would I want it to. If we take this past year as an example, chances are ZOS will re-release those motifs seasonally for new players to purchase every year, so you don't have to worry about your friends not being able to eventually purchase those crown only motifs. They will have another chance when the season comes back around!

We have also seen, through crown store rotations, that eventually all the motifs will have their turn in the crown store. If you were wanting the ability to craft pages in order to make it easier for yourself to gather all the motifs, I would recommend keeping an eye on the crown store instead. If you want to pay ZOS real money for motifs, that's totally fine! It just requires patience while they cycle through their stock in the crown store.

I do get it- gathering motifs can be a pain in the butt. However, crafting pages, whether with crowns or with some kind of in-game currency, just doesn't seem like it would be good for anyone. Getting a buddy to farm motif pages with really helps! It's fun because you can goof off and it's faster because you can trade each other your missing pages.