Urn Container Loot

Dawnblade

Issue: Same delve or instance, same containers, different characters - same character level, same achievements (as in none for the delve or zone), different loot.

All characters will find a mix of ash, lockpicks, jewelry, plans / recipes / motifs, and small weapons and armor. All seem to find a similar mix of the aforementioned loot, in similar quantities and qualities.

However, several characters will receive loot with vendor sell values on the white quality jewelry and weapons / armor (as well as decon value / decon mats), while other characters will all have zero vendor value (little to no decon value / decon mats) on white quality jewelry and weapons / armor (unless its a non-white item).

Google found some old posts in some old non-bug report threads - but nothing to explain why similar characters looting the same containers in the same place find different loot (obviously I'd prefer all white items had a vendor / decon value - but I realize the issue could be characters receiving white items with a value instead of characters receiving items without).

Oh and best I can tell, having a quest or not, having completed a quest or not, or anything such as having an achievement or not does not appear to be the deciding factor.

Shadowshire

Dawnblade wrote: »

Issue: Same delve or instance, same containers, different characters - same character level, same achievements (as in none for the delve or zone), different loot.

....

Google found some old posts in some old non-bug report threads - but nothing to explain why similar characters looting the same containers in the same place find different loot (obviously I'd prefer all white items had a vendor / decon value - but I realize the issue could be characters receiving white items with a value instead of characters receiving items without).

....

First: each and every time that a character loots a corpse or a container, the game software uses a pseudorandom number generator (PNG) to select the item(s) which will be "found" as loot, from a table of such items. A character cannot loot every corpse, and often some containers can be, thus might be, "empty". Each corpse (such as an NPC boss) or container which always yields loot ordinarily does not yield exactly the same item(s) each time the corpse or container is looted.

Consider that even the respective characters which have formed a party (grouped) are not likely to find the same loot from any corpse or any container that each of them can loot. The same container that was reported as empty for any character(s) might yield something for another character(s). Looting the same corpse or the same container can yield one or more different items, and/or yield one or more of the same items, for each character who obtains loot.

After a character loots a specific container, it will be reported as "empty" if the same character attempts to loot it again -- unless and until enough time has elapsed for the loot to "re-spawn", as it does for resource nodes from which characters obtain unrefined crafting materials.

So, since looting outcomes are randomly selected, the behavior described in the OP does not seem to be evidence of a flaw in the implementation of the Loot feature per se.


Second: if I recall correctly, a Normal quality (white) piece of armor or weapon has a non-zero Coin value if the item has a trait, unless the trait is Intricate. So a player gains nothing by vendoring an item which has an Intricate trait, but the player can trade it or offer it for sale in a Guild Store. Note that if a Normal piece of armor or weapon has the Ornate trait, then it will have a substantially greater Coin value than it would have with any other trait, whether it would have any value with no trait at all. (By the way, I don't recall whether my characters have ever looted any Normal pieces of armor or weapons which had an enchantment.)

If some Normal pieces of armor and/or Normal weapons have a Coin value, and others don't, regardless of whether they have a trait, then that might be an inconsistency in the game design. Or it might be the result of an error in the content of the tables from which outcomes are randomly obtained.

Deconstructing a Normal piece of armor or a Normal weapon produces either (a) most likely, nothing of value, or (b) sometimes, one unit of the base material -- ingot, sanded wood, or cloth -- from which it was made. I don't recall seeing more than one unit of its base material obtained from deconstructing a Normal item, but it might be possible.

Deconstruction can also yield a unit of racial style material, but not trait material unless the piece of armor or the weapon has that trait (e.g., Sturdy, or Precise). Again, there could be some inconsistency in the tables used by the game host in these respects, too, but none of which I have been aware.

Following is something that I've discovered (which may or may not work for you ):

When my character improves a Normal weapon or a Normal piece of armor to make it Fine before deconstructing it, then at least one unit of the base material from which it was made will be recovered, and often two or more units will be recovered. Also, the quality material ("temper") which was used to improve the item is recovered from most of them, as well as one unit of racial style material from some of the improved items.

However, these changes in the outcome only happen after the character improves a Normal weapon, or a Normal piece of armor, made of base material for a Rank which is lower than the character's current crafting Rank for producing such a piece of armor, or such a weapon, at a Blacksmithing, Clothing, or Woodworking workstation.

For example, with my characters at maximum Blacksmithing Rank, when they improve a Normal weapon made from Voidsteel to be a Fine one, then the increased yield in crafting materials that I've described occurs. But when they improve a Normal weapon made from Rubedite, then usually the only change is that at least one Rubedite ingot will be recovered. Recovery of more Rubedite ingots and/or of the temper, of racial style material, or of its trait material, are unlikely to occur.

< sigh >

electromagnets

“Second: if I recall correctly, a Normal quality (white) piece of armor or weapon has a non-zero Coin value if the item has a trait, unless the trait is Intricate. “

This is the only part of what you wrote that pertains to OP’s question.

What he’s saying is that sometimes the items you’re talking about here DO have the normal gold value. I’ve noticed this as well and am curious as to why that is.

Dawnblade

While I appreciate the feedback - none of it answers my question (which has to do with inconsistency in loot recived, not how traits and quality affect decon).

ALL items looted are white quality, level appropriate, no trait random style, same containers in the same location, different characters.

Characters A and B receive white quality no trait items (jewelry, armor, weapons) with a non-zero vendor 'buy' price, and the items will provide normal levels of inspiration and materials through the decon process.

Characters C, D, E, F receive white quality no trait items with a zero vendor 'buy' price, and the items will provide minimal (as in does not move the bar) levels of inspiration and typically no materials through the decon process.

I have not found anything consistently different about Characters A and B versus C, D, E, and F which explains why the first set of characters loot items which can be sold for gold to vendors and deconstructed for moderate inspiration and materials, while the second set receives crap that simply fills up inventory yet has no value at a vendor and provides very very little if any inspiration or materials when deconstructed.

Leandor

This is hearsay, so take it with a grain of salt: the char that gets loot with money value is Daggerfall Covenant, those that get mainly 0-gold-loot are Aldmeri or Ebonheart.

Dawnblade

Interesting - I'll have to test this across all my characters later, but the two I checked yesterday that got loot with value are DC, the others that got zero value loot are AD and EP.

Magdalina

I have the same thing happening with a few of my characters. ...I don't see how it'd be possible for alliance to have any effect on this, but I do remember at least one of my non-0-gold-trash-loot characters was DC. Is that really it?o.O

Jim_Pipp

I've noticed the same, although I haven't paid enough attention to see if it only happens to certain characters.

It used to be that gear looted from containers was proper trash (no value and very low chance of dropping a style material through deconstruction). Recently cp 140 items have been appearing and they have value and can be deconned for normal mats.

Could it be related to when a character was created? Or is it only in dlc zones?

mikecrci

There is more random container loot on the PS4 version of the game, versus the Xbox.

Fact.

Shadowshire

Dawnblade wrote: »

While I appreciate the feedback - none of it answers my question (which has to do with inconsistency in loot recived, not how traits and quality affect decon).

Please re-read your OP and quote the question that you "asked". No offense intended, but when you ask a question in writing do you end it with a question mark? One basic principle of Philosophy is that the answers you get depend upon the questions you ask. Implicitly, if you don't ask questions, you won't get answers. What is the question to which you want an answer?

Dawnblade wrote: »

ALL items looted are white quality, level appropriate, no trait, random style, same containers in the same location, different characters.

Characters A and B receive white quality no trait items (jewelry, armor, weapons) with a non-zero vendor 'buy' price, and the items will provide normal levels of inspiration and materials through the decon process.

Characters C, D, E, F receive white quality no trait items with a zero vendor 'buy' price, and the items will provide minimal (as in does not move the bar) levels of inspiration and typically no materials through the decon process.

As I stated:

.... each and every time that a character loots a corpse or a container, the game software uses a pseudorandom number generator (PNG) to select the item(s) which will be 'found' as loot, from a table of such items. ...."

In other words, the loot which Characters A, B, C, D, E, and F respectively receive is randomly selected from a set of items which it is possible to loot from each respective container.

Consequently, whether the loot received by any character is the same or similar as the loot received by another character is a coincidence regardless of the specific attributes of the looted items. Any difference in the loot which they respectively receive is a normal outcome.

All that your description quoted above says is that Characters A and B received more favorable outcomes than Characters C, D, E, and F. That is not a bug, it is to be expected because that is the way that the Looting process was designed.

Be that as it is, your assertions are interesting:

Dawnblade wrote: »

Characters A and B receive white quality no trait items (jewelry, armor, weapons) with a non-zero vendor 'buy' price, and the items will provide normal levels of inspiration and materials through the decon process.

Frankly, if I recall my experience correctly, then a Normal weapon or a Normal piece of armor always has a zero "vendor buy price" unless the item has a trait that is not the Intricate trait.

If that is so, then Characters A and B cannot "receive white quality no trait items ... with a non-zero vendor 'buy' price ..." can they? Even if they do, then so can the other characters receive them, and the fact that they don't receive them is because whether any specific item is received as loot is determined randomly (as explained above).

Perhaps at some time ZOS changed the set of possibilities to include Normal gear that has a non-zero Coin value even though it has no trait. If they did, then I expect they also left Normal gear that does have a zero Coin value and no trait in the set of possible loot outcomes.

Other players alledge that there is a difference as to whether Normal pieces of armor and Normal weapons have a non-zero Coin value among the different Alliances. It wouldn't surprise me if that were true. Personally, I have never noticed a difference on that basis although I have developed at least one character in each Alliance. It has been a long time since the Coin value of any Normal weapon or Normal piece of armor was significant to my characters.

What do you mean by "normal levels of inspiration and materials" for Character A and B in comparison to those received by Characters C, D, E, and F?

Dawnblade wrote: »

Characters C, D, E, F receive white quality no trait items with a zero vendor 'buy' price, and the items will provide minimal (as in does not move the bar) levels of inspiration and typically no materials through the decon process.

Again, no offense meant, but it seems to me that you report differences with respect to Inspiration and to whether materials are received by deconstructing Normal gear which I cannot recall ever finding. For what it is worth, the normal outcome of deconstructing a Normal piece of gear is that nothing of any value is recovered.

(1) Deconstructing an item of Normal gear will either produce nothing at all, or,

• produce only one unit of the base material from which it was made;
• might produce one unit of Style material (corresponding to the Style of the item);
• might produce one unit of Trait material (if it has any Trait other than Intricate or Ornate).

(2) Deconstructing every Normal weapon or Normal piece of armor increases the character's Experience with Blacksmithing, Clothing, or Woodworking -- just not by very much in comparison to deconstructing items which are Fine, Superior, or Epic quality.*

The amount of Inspiration is not affected by whether anything of value is recovered, or by the item's Coin value. The Inspiration amount which the character receives depends upon two things:

1. whether the quality is Normal, Fine, Superior, Epic, or Legendary -- the higher the quality, the more Inspiration is gained from deconstructing it;
2. whether the item has an Intricate trait, which increases the Inspiration that is gained according to its quality.

So, are you sure that there is a difference between the Inspiration received by Character A and B and the Inspiration received by Characters C, D, E, and F when they deconstruct their respective looted "no trait" Normal quality gear?

If there is, then it would seem that there is a bug somewhere in the game host software.

_____________________
* A player can put the mouse cursor on a craft's Experience bar (Skills UI) to see the numeric value of the current accumulation of Experience. After deconstructing any item, the player can do that again to see how much Inspiration was received, according to how much the accumulated Experience has increased.

Dawnblade

Sigh - and no offense to you as I do appreciate people who at least try to help, but I understand RNG and understand deconstructing inspiration - the issue being reported is that the loot value, as well as the inspiration gained when deconstructing loot, varies between two characters looting the same items from the same containers in the same location.

Multiple characters looted the same containers in the same locations, and received similarly distributed, similaryly random loot (ash, bones, motifs, plans, style materials, mostly white no-trait jewelry, along with small armor and weapons such as gloves and daggers, and a very few green items).

Several characters find the white, no trait armor and weapons to have a gold value when sold to a vendor (the value of which is commensurate with the level of the item and the quality level) and which when deconstructed, provide normal levels of inspiration and materials (again commensurate with the level of the item and the quality level).

The other characters all find the white, no trait armor and weapons to have no value (zero gold) when sold to a vendor, and when deconstructed, provide minimal (as in barely register) levels of inspiration and very few, if any, materials (similar to deconstructing stolen items).

Interestingly, Leandor's two line post has held true in my limited experimentation the past day (all characters looting the same urns in the same instance) - every character in DC (both 50 and sub-50) has received white jewelry, armor and weapons (no trait) from urns with a vendor gold value and normal inspiration while every non-DC character (both 50 and sub-50) has received similar white quality items with no (zero gold) value.

Also for specificity, this is on PC-NA, all characters looted urns in Dreloth Tomb / Vvardenfell - I plan to check other areas such as Old Orsinium, but have not had time to do so.

xb1LL_mr_sir_LL

i spent i few months grinding urns i know exactly what you're talking about. there seems to be a cool down on whether or
not you can get gold when selling urn junk.

what i did to maximize the gold i got from selling urn junk is only sell the junk when off the cool down.

Shadowshire

Dawnblade wrote: »

Sigh - and no offense to you as I do appreciate people who at least try to help, but I understand RNG and understand deconstructing inspiration - the issue being reported is that the loot value, as well as the inspiration gained when deconstructing loot, varies between two characters looting the same items from the same containers in the same location.

....

Interestingly, Leandor's two line post has held true in my limited experimentation the past day (all characters looting the same urns in the same instance) - every character in DC (both 50 and sub-50) has received white jewelry, armor and weapons (no trait) from urns with a vendor gold value and normal inspiration while every non-DC character (both 50 and sub-50) has received similar white quality items with no (zero gold) value.

Also for specificity, this is on PC-NA, all characters looted urns in Dreloth Tomb / Vvardenfell - I plan to check other areas such as Old Orsinium, but have not had time to do so.

Yes, that is interesting . If that proves to be a fact, then implicitly the software uses a different "loot table" (set of items which it is possible to loot), for DC characters than the loot tables that it uses for EP and for AD characters, respectively.

It also seems that the amount of Inspiration to be gained from deconstructing any gear item is a number stored in a data field for each such item in the loot table, and the number is not the same for the same item in the respective loot tables (at least with respect to Normal quality gear).

My first two characters were Sorcerers, one DC and one EP. When they deconstructed Normal gear, the Inspiration was not enough to move the "progress" portion of the Experience bar for that craft, until the third or fourth piece. So I checked it as I described in the footnote to Post #10, and it was simply a three digit number less than 1000 (such as 756, IIRC). The progress bar only moved a perceptible notch to the right when the accumulated Experience had increased by more than about 2250.

Which is to say, at least with regard to Inspiration, I didn't notice any difference in the rate at which either character acquired Experience with Blacksmithing, Clothing, or Woodworking. The Imperial focused on Light Armor, the Breton focused on Medium Armor. The Breton focused on Heavy Weapons, the Imperial focused on Heavy Armor.

But both simultaneously acquired crafting Experience, trait knowledge and passives for Woodworking. The Breton Sorcerer (DC) "finished" Woodworking perhaps a week or two (three at most) before the Imperial Sorcerer (EP). Insofar as I favored the Breton Sorcerer as a Woodworker, and the Imperial Sorcerer as a Blacksmith, I doubt that the difference in completion time could be attributed only to a significant difference in Inspiration gained by deconstructing Normal gear, or by deconstructing gear of higher quality.

That said, it seems that I consistently acquired noticeably more Coin with the Breton Sorcerer than with the Imperial Sorcerer. Nonetheless, neither character sold gear of any quality that did not have an Ornate trait -- which increases its Coin value by 280% -- to a vendor. They always deconstructed all other gear regardless of whether it had a Coin value and of whether it was Normal, Fine, Superior, or Epic in quality.

Enjoy!

electromagnets

Ok, let’s try to simplify this.

OP’s initial question as I understand it, is:

Why does some looted white gear from containers have a gold value, but most not?

I have also experienced this and have always wondered...

Will do some alliance testing to see if I come up with similar results as OP.

Feric51

Tested this with a guild mate in Dreloth tomb.

My character: CP690, Aldmeri Dominion, Mag Sorc. - All white, CP140 gear/jewelry drops from urns and laying around in the open were worth 0 gold.

Guild mate: CP690, Daggerfall Covenant, Stam Sorc. - White, CP140 gear and jewelry from urns had value equivalent to mob-dropped loot (28-76 gold). White items picked up from ground laying in the open were still 0-value.

My own EP character, level 36 Stam DK, also only gets 0-value gear from urns.

Something going on with DC characters’ loot table apparently.

Dawnblade

Feric51 wrote: »

Tested this with a guild mate in Dreloth tomb.

My character: CP690, Aldmeri Dominion, Mag Sorc. - All white, CP140 gear/jewelry drops from urns and laying around in the open were worth 0 gold.

Guild mate: CP690, Daggerfall Covenant, Stam Sorc. - White, CP140 gear and jewelry from urns had value equivalent to mob-dropped loot (28-76 gold). White items picked up from ground laying in the open were still 0-value.

My own EP character, level 36 Stam DK, also only gets 0-value gear from urns.

Something going on with DC characters’ loot table apparently.

I've done this now on both 50s and sub-50s on my account and those of friends, and every non-DC character receives urn loot (armor, weapons, jewelry) with a value of 0 gold, while every DC character receives urn loot with a leveled gold value (e.g. CP140 values for CP140 stuff, level 33 values for level 33 stuff).

Also it doesn't appear to affect non-urn loot - all the random picked up off table, floor, whatever stuff has 0 gold value for all factions.

This also affects deconstruction as the items with 0 value decon for very few mats (one out of ten or more will drop a single base material) and very little (as in doesn't move the bar) inspiration, while similar items with gold values looted by DC characters return mats (typically a few of the base material, sometimes a style material) each time as well as normal white quality leveled (e.g. CP140 stuff more inspiration than level 33 stuff) inspiration.

Something with the loot tables on urns between factions is different.

Feric51

Time to make a DC character and start farming gold from “0”-value container drops!!! It’ll be just like stealing items for gold, just half the risk for a quarter the gold!! Lol