Spellcrafting.

Tapio75

I have not forgotten this and hopefully there are many other who remember this awesome addition to the game.

It needs to happen. Id postponed indefinitely, it needs to be unpostponed and returned to development. If canceled, it needs to return to development. It will not be balance breakerand it will be great fun to hunt for spell components.

Kanar

I think it's a terrible idea and would hate to see Dev time spent on spellcrafting.

Shezzarrine

Stop. There was just a thread about this the other day. It WILL NOT WORK. There are enough balance issues as is, the skills will either be cookie-cutter and overpowered or useless. The devs first have to finish the system then spend more time than it's worth to balance it over years. I'd rather them spend their time on something that won't screw up the game

Jarryzzt

What, again? Have we not had several threads on this just this past weekend? Or does it just seem that way?

It will not be balance breakerand it will be great fun to hunt for spell components.

Simply put - prove it. No, really. You have made the assertion. Therefore, the onus is on you to show to the community that the system, as envisioned by ZOS back in 2014, comprised of multiple schools, spells per school and morphs per spell, with the total number of combinations measured in dozens (well over 100 if I recall correctly), and with all spell combinations potentially accessible to anyone regardless of class via trading (not just exploration), can be balanced. Oh, in both PVE and PVP, just to make things even more fun.

I shall answer this for you - in theory, yes, it can, if and only if you either a) cut down on the number of spells/combinations, and by a lot; or b) make the new spells so bland that they will never make it into BiS builds (much like, what, 70%-80%-90% of the item sets in the game?). But then the follow-up question is why bother doing all the work of implementation and testing for...either a few spells, or a lot of bland spells? Especially with money on the line (i.e. needing to justify the investment by, say, drumming up demand for Crown Store spellcrafting items).

Practically speaking, I continue to support ZOS's apparent 2014-vintage decision to shelve the project until someone can figure out how to fit a square peg into a triangular hole and, along the way, reconcile General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. Moreover, should they adopt the "oh screw it, let's just put it in" attitude that would no doubt please the OP, I shall devote my remaining time in ESO to aggressively breaking that system in every which way possible the way Zvi Mowshowitz & Co. were breaking, or at least trying to break, Block Constructed back in the day. This I vow.

Vanthras79

Tapio75 wrote: »

I have not forgotten this and hopefully there are many other who remember this awesome addition to the game.

It needs to happen. Id postponed indefinitely, it needs to be unpostponed and returned to development. If canceled, it needs to return to development. It will not be balance breakerand it will be great fun to hunt for spell components.

I totally agree with you! The stam toons can cope with the "new META".

Faulgor

Jarryzzt wrote: »

What, again? Have we not had several threads on this just this past weekend? Or does it just seem that way?

It will not be balance breakerand it will be great fun to hunt for spell components.

Simply put - prove it. No, really. You have made the assertion. Therefore, the onus is on you to show to the community that the system, as envisioned by ZOS back in 2014, comprised of multiple schools, spells per school and morphs per spell, with the total number of combinations measured in dozens (well over 100 if I recall correctly), and with all spell combinations potentially accessible to anyone regardless of class via trading (not just exploration), can be balanced. Oh, in both PVE and PVP, just to make things even more fun.

There is no reason to assume it would be harder to balance than it is now.
Most skills available to any character are already - like spellcrafting would be - non-class skills. Nothing would change in this regard.

But we don't have to imagine what would happen, because we already have seen what happens when new skills are added to the game; such as PvP skills, Werewolf skills, replaced skills like Blade Cloak and Grim Focus, and a whole new class.

New builds are developed. Some are better, some are worse. Some skills become ubiquitous and are eventually nerfed, some skills remain useless and are sometimes buffed. In other words, nothing usual for an MMO. The meta changes all the time from any change to the game, and ESO has never been "balanced" in all its years. There is no reason to assume spellcrafting would destroy the game beyond this usual pattern.

Overall, I think the game has been better off thanks to things like Vigor and weapon ultimates, and it will be better off with even more skills from spellcrafting as well. There will always be a best build regardless, and below that, more skills mean a lot more diversity. How viable these will be is entirely up to ZOS, but that is the case with any number of skills, pre- or post-spellcrafting.

Besides, ZOS still wants to do it...

https://twitter.com/TESOnline/status/865640403571101701

Ragnarok0130

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Stop. There was just a thread about this the other day. It WILL NOT WORK. There are enough balance issues as is, the skills will either be cookie-cutter and overpowered or useless. The devs first have to finish the system then spend more time than it's worth to balance it over years. I'd rather them spend their time on something that won't screw up the game

Exactly my thoughts on the matter. You can do this in a single player RPG where balance really doesn't matter but the minute you're in an MMO things like this cannot be done as they can never be balanced.

SlinkySlack

Make a counter spell if you feel someone else's spell is to powerful for you, isn't that the main reason of spell crafting, diversity? Many players say "knock back immunity" should not be in potions, well then put it in spellcrafting, make spellcrafting relevant and more would use and want to use it.

Vapirko

There needs to be a ban on threads about this and whether 2H wpns should count as two equipment pieces.

leandro.800ub17_ESO

Sample of what it could be (IDEA)

Base Spell = Magic Ball.
Enchant: Fire, Ice, Storm , Bleed , Poison , Etc ...
Type: Aoe , Direct , Dot
Effect: Sorcery , Intellect , Prophecy Etc

Final Example 1: Fire Ball (Do x fire dmg over x seconds and apply minor Intellect for X seconds)
Final Example 2: Ice Ball (Do x cold dmg in a X distance around target and apply minor Sorcery for x seconds)

You will go into the world and look for the items for the base , enchant , type and effect to make the spell. Imagine the combinations.
Enchant will make it stam or magika base depending on type. The balance is easy to make since all x can be calculated pretty mutch the same way. And make it PVE only for now.

Tapio75

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Stop. There was just a thread about this the other day. It WILL NOT WORK. There are enough balance issues as is, the skills will either be cookie-cutter and overpowered or useless. The devs first have to finish the system then spend more time than it's worth to balance it over years. I'd rather them spend their time on something that won't screw up the game

Balance is of small conincidence here.

As you well know, certain part of playerbase will always complain about balance, even if theres just one class and one weapon. META builds will balance the stuff as the competitive playerbase will always use these builds, no matter what the system so in their part, they will always find a way to cope with the issue. The endless balance crusade will just force that playerbase to constantly change the meta build. Would it be better to just concentrate on playing with the meta builds available and be done with it.

@Faulgor

josiahva

Faulgor wrote: »

Jarryzzt wrote: »

What, again? Have we not had several threads on this just this past weekend? Or does it just seem that way?

It will not be balance breakerand it will be great fun to hunt for spell components.

Simply put - prove it. No, really. You have made the assertion. Therefore, the onus is on you to show to the community that the system, as envisioned by ZOS back in 2014, comprised of multiple schools, spells per school and morphs per spell, with the total number of combinations measured in dozens (well over 100 if I recall correctly), and with all spell combinations potentially accessible to anyone regardless of class via trading (not just exploration), can be balanced. Oh, in both PVE and PVP, just to make things even more fun.

There is no reason to assume it would be harder to balance than it is now.
Most skills available to any character are already - like spellcrafting would be - non-class skills. Nothing would change in this regard.

But we don't have to imagine what would happen, because we already have seen what happens when new skills are added to the game; such as PvP skills, Werewolf skills, replaced skills like Blade Cloak and Grim Focus, and a whole new class.

New builds are developed. Some are better, some are worse. Some skills become ubiquitous and are eventually nerfed, some skills remain useless and are sometimes buffed. In other words, nothing usual for an MMO. The meta changes all the time from any change to the game, and ESO has never been "balanced" in all its years. There is no reason to assume spellcrafting would destroy the game beyond this usual pattern.

Overall, I think the game has been better off thanks to things like Vigor and weapon ultimates, and it will be better off with even more skills from spellcrafting as well. There will always be a best build regardless, and below that, more skills mean a lot more diversity. How viable these will be is entirely up to ZOS, but that is the case with any number of skills, pre- or post-spellcrafting.

Besides, ZOS still wants to do it...

https://twitter.com/TESOnline/status/865640403571101701

^^This. Stop saying "It will break the game" and being scared of change. I would be thrilled to see 100 new skills added to the game, no matter how "Bland" and "useless" they may be. It would promote build diversity. If you don't want to call it "spellcrafting" how about calling "extra morphs of existing skills" or..."new weapon or undaunted skill lines". It all boils down to one thing: New skills, and new skills of any type are something I support.

idk

Tapio75 wrote: »

I have not forgotten this and hopefully there are many other who remember this awesome addition to the game.

It needs to happen. Id postponed indefinitely, it needs to be unpostponed and returned to development. If canceled, it needs to return to development. It will not be balance breakerand it will be great fun to hunt for spell components.

It was shelved but devs have mentioned it since.

However, no one, including yourself, can state it would not complicate balance though the logical conclusion would be anything added to combat would complicate balance as it would be an additional factor that would need to be considered.

Apache_Kid

Spell-crafting is something that would be a catalyst towards me putting down this game for good. How can you expect a system with maybe hundreds or thousands of combinations of effects and abilities to be balanced in a PvP system? If they were banned from use in PvP then we can have a discussion about this but the abilites we have now are just barely balanced and some would argue they are unbalanced. No need to throw a monkey wrench like this into the whole system. I'm more than ok with the abilities we currently have and I think we all should be lest we open Pandora's Box.

Vanthras79

josiahva wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Jarryzzt wrote: »

What, again? Have we not had several threads on this just this past weekend? Or does it just seem that way?

It will not be balance breakerand it will be great fun to hunt for spell components.

Simply put - prove it. No, really. You have made the assertion. Therefore, the onus is on you to show to the community that the system, as envisioned by ZOS back in 2014, comprised of multiple schools, spells per school and morphs per spell, with the total number of combinations measured in dozens (well over 100 if I recall correctly), and with all spell combinations potentially accessible to anyone regardless of class via trading (not just exploration), can be balanced. Oh, in both PVE and PVP, just to make things even more fun.

There is no reason to assume it would be harder to balance than it is now.
Most skills available to any character are already - like spellcrafting would be - non-class skills. Nothing would change in this regard.

But we don't have to imagine what would happen, because we already have seen what happens when new skills are added to the game; such as PvP skills, Werewolf skills, replaced skills like Blade Cloak and Grim Focus, and a whole new class.

New builds are developed. Some are better, some are worse. Some skills become ubiquitous and are eventually nerfed, some skills remain useless and are sometimes buffed. In other words, nothing usual for an MMO. The meta changes all the time from any change to the game, and ESO has never been "balanced" in all its years. There is no reason to assume spellcrafting would destroy the game beyond this usual pattern.

Overall, I think the game has been better off thanks to things like Vigor and weapon ultimates, and it will be better off with even more skills from spellcrafting as well. There will always be a best build regardless, and below that, more skills mean a lot more diversity. How viable these will be is entirely up to ZOS, but that is the case with any number of skills, pre- or post-spellcrafting.

Besides, ZOS still wants to do it...

https://twitter.com/TESOnline/status/865640403571101701

^^This. Stop saying "It will break the game" and being scared of change. I would be thrilled to see 100 new skills added to the game, no matter how "Bland" and "useless" they may be. It would promote build diversity. If you don't want to call it "spellcrafting" how about calling "extra morphs of existing skills" or..."new weapon or undaunted skill lines". It all boils down to one thing: New skills, and new skills of any type are something I support.

Agreed. This game needs more spell/ability diversity.

ParaNostram

I have waited years with bated breath for spellcrafting. I remember reading the data mined info on it as soon as it was available. All ya'll crying balance and such, I didn't realize the game was balanced already! Can't throw off balance if it isn't balanced to begin with

Chaos2088

Spell Crafting would be amazing addition to the game, and would allow people to really express what they would want their toons to be like, but I can agree with some of the people say, I think right now it might be a head ache of a balance issue.

But we will wait and see, I do think if it was going to happen it is going to be very different to what was shown to us in 2014.

Thealteregoroman

This will never die. When it happens and hopefully this year; this feature will set this game apart from any MMO out there. This will definitely get to those “Harry Potter fans” with the outfit system and spellcrafting system to invest in a game like this...

Especially with ALL these quests. I guess we will see and when/if it happens I’ll be the first person on this forum clap back on everyone doubting it. YES I already got a list goin.

Waffennacht

And you thought identifying cheating was hard now...

Elijah_Crow

I think making it work would be a monumental task. It could take years. Glad they have had years to work on it. Really looking forward to it.

Jake1576

I really hope spellcrafting does happen i'm so tired of the same old boring class skills and weapon skills it would make things very interesting that's what the game is suppose to be like after all interesting and fun spellcrafting would be exciting

Iccotak

How Would It Work?
You say you want this mechanic but have you actually an idea how this would work with ESO mechanics?

This isn't a normal ES game where we can wield spells in our hands, we have to use staffs.
We can't dual wield spells and weapons.
This game is dependent on using existing Skills on the number pad.

Slick_007

what, another thread on this?

Betsararie

It doesn't really need to happen. Such an addition would make balancing impossible for the game, and would be a nuisance.

Instead the current meta should be focused on being balanced, as it has its share of issues.

Spellcrafting is nothing more than a casual player's fantasy.

Somber97866

They need to shove this game in the toilet and make another, with lessons learned, and to seperate pve from pvp

altemriel

Tapio75 wrote: »

I have not forgotten this and hopefully there are many other who remember this awesome addition to the game.

It needs to happen. Id postponed indefinitely, it needs to be unpostponed and returned to development. If canceled, it needs to return to development. It will not be balance breakerand it will be great fun to hunt for spell components.

I totaly agree, this was an awesome idea and should be implemented asap!!
a bit hard to balance, but not impossible

Kram8ion

under water spells!

Oh, my bad please continue

Iluvrien

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Spell-crafting is something that would be a catalyst towards me putting down this game for good. How can you expect a system with maybe hundreds or thousands of combinations of effects and abilities to be balanced in a PvP system? If they were banned from use in PvP then we can have a discussion about this but the abilites we have now are just barely balanced and some would argue they are unbalanced. No need to throw a monkey wrench like this into the whole system. I'm more than ok with the abilities we currently have and I think we all should be lest we open Pandora's Box.

So, ban it from PvP.

Many of the names that seem to post against it are ones I recognize from that arena. So, why not give them what they are asking for... no spellcrafting.

For the rest of us? Yes please, as soon as possible.

We already have a PvP vs. non-PvP zone divide. Battle leveling too. We have a precedent for changing the mechanics of the game based on where you are. Just manage spellcrafting in the same way.

Done.

NewBlacksmurf

The dev who started this left....no one picked up their work.

That’s their story and for the last 3 years....also it’s not spell crafting. It’s spell unlocking. It’s just another questing grind like daily mages guild quests. A lot needs to change if this is added

bloodthirstyvampire

No because I use stam skills spell=magic

Faulgor

Iccotak wrote: »

How Would It Work?

They did a demonstration about this 4 years ago at QuakeCon.
Funny that Konkle adressed right away that this wouldn't be impossible to balance. Miss him.

Starts around 53 minutes.

https://youtu.be/_Jk7LrLgRfg?t=3182