How to hit for 9k?

teladoy

With my sorcerer I can hit for around the 5k with cristal fragments. This time I have like around 16k spell penetration and I say this time because before I had Necropotence and some other *** set and I was always hitting the same. So I really don't know where is the trick with builds and etc. For me is always the same.

But watching my death historial when people send me to the heaven I see always things like: subterranean assault 9k+

How is that possible? I'm not even wearing any defensive gear and some people that they do they also do *** devastating damage. Yesterday a magicka templar was *** bursting me down and when I ask to him what he was wearing he link me skoria with 2 stupid defensive sets, can't remember the name but one was something like reducing the damage of opponents by 15% and the other one was giving armor and spell resistance by a lot.
This guy was taking down 2 players at the same time like nothing.

I would like to know what I'm missing from this story because I'm really gonna change my mind and play only broken setups and that's it. Because in BGS is all what I see.

Everstorm

Are you using gear with the impenatrable trait? It will reduce damage from critical hits.

Vapirko

It’s a good question sometimes. One answer might be that they’re a player who has built a pure damage build and just goes through their burst rotation when their ult is up or whatever. I was hit by a 9k dizzy swing which means the tooltip for that has to be more than 18k because you have to get through resistances assuming that they’re CP damage allotments are directly countering your defensive allotments. This is really only possible through a few very high damage sets like alchemist or maybe seventh legion fully procd. But with the right knowledge or the game or addons that tell you when your gear procs are up, plus the right buffs, it’s surely possible to hit some insanely high numbers. As to why your crystal frags hits for 5k however, we’d need to know a lot more like what’s sets you run, max stats and spell damage, how much penetration etc. I think that’s fairly typical of a skill. I’ve never played a mag sorc, but most of the tooltips for my magblade are somewhere in the 9-12k range. Which would likely work out to around 5k all things considered.

Voxicity

They could be wearing impen and you not
They could have full master at arms and you no points into it's counter cp (i forgot the name)
They could have empowered the frag with magelight

Ragnarock41

IF you're eating a 9k sub assault you lack impen badly. and I mean really badly.

Also that magplar was wearing wizard's riposte, second set should be probably brass or armor master.
I Wouldnt call it a broken setup, tho riposte becomes a bit too strong on shield users like magsorcs.
So why not try it yourself?

Vapirko

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

IF you're eating a 9k sub assault you lack impen badly. and I mean really badly.

Also that magplar was wearing wizard's riposte, second set should be probably brass or armor master.
I Wouldnt call it a broken setup, tho riposte becomes a bit too strong on shield users like magsorcs.
So why not try it yourself?

I wouldn’t say this is particularly true. I sport around 3k crit resist and have been hit with sub assaults for very nearly that much.

RouDeR

Your cp distribution is at level Mudcrab , git gud and l2p

teladoy

RouDeR wrote: »

Your cp distribution is at level Mudcrab , git gud and l2p

I have 620CP and in duels I do it pretty good but in BGS i meet sometimes these insane players that do insane damage or have crazy setups.

Maybe I should take a better look to my CP but I think I have them very normally distributed.

Ch4mpTW

RouDeR wrote: »

Your cp distribution is at level Mudcrab , git gud and l2p

C’mon man. Give the guy better help than that. Sitting there and telling the fella to just “git gud” isn’t helping him with anything. -_-

Aisle9

Ok, so

Couple misconceptions, here's some clarification:
1) Magicka Templars hardly have any burst, but they have mean sustained damage, which means they can turtle up on defensiveness and slowly kill opponents with jabs, beams, ritual, etc. The people you saw getting bursted down were probably glasscannons (fully aggressive, little or no defensive), or people with little to no experience.

2) The set itself is only part of your damage output, then you have glyphs, champion points, weapon enchantments, skillbars, passives, and player skill.

3) The raw damage is only partially important, what's more important is to line up a burst: do a lot of damage with a synced series of skills (e.g. curse, wrath, frags). It's not the frags that are killing, it's the sum of the single attacks.

4) Skoria is broken powerful if you have 4+ dots. It procs very reliably and does a lot of damage, so it's very good pressure. Pretty much all the damage a templar has is dot based.

5) Critical damage is not useless in PvP. Even with full impen, critical hits will do more damage than normal hits, but it is true that it's not a good choice to go for crit rating, because the IMPENETRABLE trait will make other choices (e.g. Spell Damage, High Magicka Pool) more effective. But then you find the guy with full divines, or well-fitted (but can't roll) and you do crazy damage with crits.

6) Having shields doesn't make you invincible, just slightly harder to kill, but you really need to remember to keep them up, and bail when you're running out of magicka. Bolt escape or streak will help you in that regard.

7) Dark Deal/Dark Exchange are not a reliable heal, unless you're in a situation where you can't be bashed (far away, out of combat) so you need to think about a reliable healing for yourself. Healing ward is great. If you're using Dark Deal/Dark Exchange make sure you don't do it while in combat, because you will be bashed, so no heals and you'll be off-balance (increased damage + stamina drain from break free).

8) The DEFILED status is your worst enemy, do not underestimate DEFILED. If you get defiled, run, purge, or make sure you can kill the one defiling you asap.

9) Always kill the squishiest ones first, DO NOT FOCUS ON TANKS. They will be in your face while the snipe-spammer is defiling you, kill the sniper first.

Hope this helps.

Beardimus

There is alot to it without knowing all the details its hard to say exactly but ^ this is good intel.

AND more so, in update 17 BG are going no-CP so the ridiculous builds will lessen and fun will come back

Oh also, power sigil in BG helps!!!!

teladoy

@Aisle9 thanks, that was very constructive and help me to think a little bit more what can I change for better.

It is confirmed BGS go no CP again?

teladoy

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

IF you're eating a 9k sub assault you lack impen badly. and I mean really badly.

Also that magplar was wearing wizard's riposte, second set should be probably brass or armor master.
I Wouldnt call it a broken setup, tho riposte becomes a bit too strong on shield users like magsorcs.
So why not try it yourself?

Why in sorcerers? Is not worth for anyone that gets simply critic?

What you can tell me about Duroks Bane and Fasallas guide? Are they worth as debuffers?

Kalante

you are overpening so hard and losing damage. 16k geez... the most you need is like 12k

also use this http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor

VaranisArano

teladoy wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

IF you're eating a 9k sub assault you lack impen badly. and I mean really badly.

Also that magplar was wearing wizard's riposte, second set should be probably brass or armor master.
I Wouldnt call it a broken setup, tho riposte becomes a bit too strong on shield users like magsorcs.
So why not try it yourself?

Why in sorcerers? Is not worth for anyone that gets simply critic?

What you can tell me about Duroks Bane and Fasallas guide? Are they worth as debuffers?

Durok's Bane and Fasalla's Guile are excellent debuffers. If you are with a group, they do the job of debuffing the enemy and setting the enemy up to be much easier to kill for your group. If you are solo, I'd pick one or the other, since you also have to do the work of actually killing the enemy.

teladoy

VaranisArano wrote: »

teladoy wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

IF you're eating a 9k sub assault you lack impen badly. and I mean really badly.

Also that magplar was wearing wizard's riposte, second set should be probably brass or armor master.
I Wouldnt call it a broken setup, tho riposte becomes a bit too strong on shield users like magsorcs.
So why not try it yourself?

Why in sorcerers? Is not worth for anyone that gets simply critic?

What you can tell me about Duroks Bane and Fasallas guide? Are they worth as debuffers?

Durok's Bane and Fasalla's Guile are excellent debuffers. If you are with a group, they do the job of debuffing the enemy and setting the enemy up to be much easier to kill for your group. If you are solo, I'd pick one or the other, since you also have to do the work of actually killing the enemy.

If would have to choose one which would you pick?? :-/

Aisle9

Durok's 3 pieces bonus is health regen, which, in itself, is not really powerful, unless you invest in health regen, but the 5 pieces applies Major Defile (30%) for 10s.

Fasalla's 2 and 3 pieces is max health, which has more utility by itself, but only applies Minor Defile (15%) for 2 seconds.

If I had to choose, I'd go for Durok.

If you're using one or the other, and you're playing in a CP campaign, don't forget to also put points in Befoul for extra cancer.

Happy hunting.

VaranisArano

Fasalle's Guile if I were going to my fighting in and amongst enemies a lot such that I was in range for the set to give defile to the people I need it to.

Durok's Bane if I were going to play line of sight, running away games, or tanking up, where I'm going hit a lot by a lot of people including people from range. You'll benefit from it in close quarters fighting, but you have to take damage to proc it,
so eh? I'm also not 100% sure if Durok's procs with shields active, so that might be something to see.(Wizard's Riposte will work the same but for minor maim.)

Basically, Durok's is a better defensive set, where I'll get more use out of it if I'm getting hit by a lot of people. Fasalla's Guile is better if I'm on the offensive and just need to defile whoever I'm attacking plus people near me. Like with most gear sets, its situational and depends on which best fits your playstyle.

Does anyone know how Durok's works with damage shields? I've never tried it on a build that used damage shields so I don't know if that limits the uptime.

Aisle9

VaranisArano wrote: »

Fasalle's Guile if I were going to my fighting in and amongst enemies a lot such that I was in range for the set to give defile to the people I need it to.

Durok's Bane if I were going to play line of sight, running away games, or tanking up, where I'm going hit a lot by a lot of people including people from range. You'll benefit from it in close quarters fighting, but you have to take damage to proc it,
so eh? I'm also not 100% sure if Durok's procs with shields active, so that might be something to see.(Wizard's Riposte will work the same but for minor maim.)

Basically, Durok's is a better defensive set, where I'll get more use out of it if I'm getting hit by a lot of people. Fasalla's Guile is better if I'm on the offensive and just need to defile whoever I'm attacking plus people near me. Like with most gear sets, its situational and depends on which best fits your playstyle.

Does anyone know how Durok's works with damage shields? I've never tried it on a build that used damage shields so I don't know if that limits the uptime.

That is a good question.

Defile used to work on shields too, so in theory, Durok should as well, but now the tooltip says only healing and health regen.

Then again, ESO's tooltips are notoriously misleading or just plain inaccurate.

*edit*
Friend of mine that mains magsorc confirmed it doesn't, only reduces the healing portion of healing ward.

VaranisArano

Nice to know how that impacts shield users. I also wasn't sure how effective a shield-using sorc would find Durok's as a wearable set. Since Durok's says it procs on taking damage, and damage shields prevent damage to health, I would assume that a damage shield-using sorc wearing Durok's would see Durok's proc less than someone just using S&B to block, but I don't know if that's true.

Aisle9

VaranisArano wrote: »

Nice to know how that impacts shield users. I also wasn't sure how effective a shield-using sorc would find Durok's as a wearable set. Since Durok's says it procs on taking damage, and damage shields prevent damage to health, I would assume that a damage shield-using sorc wearing Durok's would see Durok's proc less than someone just using S&B to block, but I don't know if that's true.

Ah, you mean if it procs while having a damage shield ?

No clue, needs testing, but if I had to guess, I'd go for yes.

teladoy

I think I'm starting to think in some new cancer build. Like Napoleon said "if you can not beat them, then join them ".

I'm gonna go in BGs to tank, make the people lose their time, debuf and snare them.

I tried to give my best, but seems like if you want to success you can not be fair you have to create some kind of exploiting cancer build.

LordSemaj

teladoy wrote: »

I tried to give my best, but seems like if you want to success you can not be fair you have to create some kind of exploiting cancer build.

Finally young PVPer, you have graduated from console gaming to card gaming.

Welcome to a whole new level of meta gaming.

VaranisArano

teladoy wrote: »

I think I'm starting to think in some new cancer build. Like Napoleon said "if you can not beat them, then join them ".

I'm gonna go in BGs to tank, make the people lose their time, debuf and snare them.

I tried to give my best, but seems like if you want to success you can not be fair you have to create some kind of exploiting cancer build.

In Cyrodiil, you can deal with cancer builds by avoiding them, doing something else, or calling your friends in to deal with them.

In Battlegrounds, the only way to avoid a cancer build is to quit playing. In 4v4v4 content, a specialized build that performs its chosen playstyle well is going to be pretty powerful, simply because the other team can't ignore, avoid, or call in back-up. That's true of whether its the No CP Troll King health regen builds, the now nerfed Viper procs, the Tremorscale ranged taunters, speed-runners, or tank+guard pairs, or tanky turtles.

So if you want to do well in Battlegrounds, you also have to pick a playstyle and commit to it. Find something you like to do and specialize your build for it. You'll probably wind up with something that's too specialized for open-field combat in Cyrodiil, but this isn't open-field combat in Cyrodiil. Its more like small-scale farming people at a resource, with no fear of an enemy raid showing up.

"Cancer" builds that do what they do really well are more effective in a fast-paced small scale combat with objectives than a well-rounded build that does most things well. Battlegrounds is inherently limited compared to Cyrodiil combat, so the best Battleground builds are built with the limitations and combat situations in Battlegrounds in mind.

Beardimus

teladoy wrote: »

@Aisle9 thanks, that was very constructive and help me to think a little bit more what can I change for better.

It is confirmed BGS go no CP again?

Sure is, Gina confirmed. There are threads about it

Aisle9

teladoy wrote: »

I think I'm starting to think in some new cancer build. Like Napoleon said "if you can not beat them, then join them ".

I'm gonna go in BGs to tank, make the people lose their time, debuf and snare them.

I tried to give my best, but seems like if you want to success you can not be fair you have to create some kind of exploiting cancer build.

...Or keep at it until you're good enough to understand how the whole thing works...

Using crutches for the sake of instant gratification is not necessarily the best way to go. If I were you I'd go for practice with an existing build, and get all the info I can.

Also, dueling helps a lot, but not dueling against randoms near the wayshrine. Chances are you get the meta-cheese that's just farming kills for the title.

Join a guild or duel with friends. It's great fun.

At first you die a lot, eventually you get good. Practice is key.

teladoy

Beardimus wrote: »

teladoy wrote: »

@Aisle9 thanks, that was very constructive and help me to think a little bit more what can I change for better.

It is confirmed BGS go no CP again?

Sure is, Gina confirmed. There are threads about it

Can you share me some links?

VaranisArano

teladoy wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

teladoy wrote: »

@Aisle9 thanks, that was very constructive and help me to think a little bit more what can I change for better.

It is confirmed BGS go no CP again?

Sure is, Gina confirmed. There are threads about it

Can you share me some links?

Links:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4751912/#Comment_4751912
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/388166/we-get-no-cp-bgs-back-1111111111/p1

WillhelmBlack

Skoria, Fortified Brass and Wizards Riposte in 5 light isn't a 'cancer' build. It's just a build.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

With my sorcerer I can hit for around the 5k with cristal fragments. I see always things like: subterranean assault 9k+

Have you tried running a warden? Most problems in PvP can be solved by running a warden.

ArchMikem

Players wearing armor with Impenetrable traits take less damage. Players wearing armor with Infused/Divines other etc. traits are squishy. If you go into Cyrodiil wearing your PvE gear like I do you need to prepare to have your butt handed to you by seemingly unstoppable players.