ESO+ Should Get Outfit System Benefits

Recremen

So last year around the time of Morrowind and the reveal of the new release schedule there was a great hullabaloo about how to make the ESO+ subscription more valuable, given that we were having one of our as-advertised DLC taken away and replaced with a paid chapter. There was an official thread about it where the devs sought our ideas on the matter and everything. One of the most requested features in that thread, of course, was a "transmog" system. And it looks like that day has finally arrived!

.... Except not. While the transmog system looks incredibly feature-rich, containing pretty much every requested function and more, there is zero tie to an ESO+ subscription!! That's not to say I think it should be an ESO+ exclusive. Far from it. This kind of system should definitely be open to all. But, like costume-dyeing, I feel that ESO+ members should see an additional benefit, something that can start offsetting the value of that DLC we're missing every year due to the new schedule.

Specifically, I believe that there should be no gold cost for changing outfits for ESO+ members. For people like myself, who like throwing together a new look as often as possible, that would be a strong step in the right direction to bring the value of ESO+ back up to where it was when originally advertised, while keeping in line with the low gameplay impact of previous ESO+ benefits. What do other people think on the matter?

Dominoid

ESO+ should get two outfit slots. Lose ESO+ you can no longer change the 2nd outfit.

DMuehlhausen

Crafting bag alone is worth the ESO+ sub.

coop500

Please don't take dying from us, dying is a huge part of this outfit creator thing.

What you guys can have is extra slots though, that won't be taking away stuff from us.

Fear not though, because now ESO+ members might get 8 free crown crates

Donari

As a long-time ESO+ player (as in have been subbed since launch), as well as a very gold-poor player who happens to love the fashion wars aspect of MMOs, I like both of the above ideas.

Though the second one might have some issues with people who are only intermittently subbed. What happens to the second slot when you aren't paying for Plus? It might not be a simple thing to disable it.

Thealteregoroman

@Recremen I agree.

Rebirthment

If eso+ members really have to benefit more from this as you say, then I guess allowing an additional outfit slot or 2 would be good.

Thealteregoroman

coop500 wrote: »

Please don't take dying from us, dying is a huge part of this outfit creator thing.

What you guys can have is extra slots though, that won't be taking away stuff from us.

Fear not though, because now ESO+ members might get 8 free crown crates

@coop500 where did you hear that?

coop500

Thealteregoroman wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Please don't take dying from us, dying is a huge part of this outfit creator thing.

What you guys can have is extra slots though, that won't be taking away stuff from us.

Fear not though, because now ESO+ members might get 8 free crown crates

@coop500 where did you hear that?

I don't 'hear', I read the news page, it's right there before you hit 'Play'

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4755501#Comment_4755501

Colecovision

There is no Transmog. It’s a costume generator. If you subscribe I don’t think it’s a huge deal. But non subs can’t dye costumes. So I’m not sure if the new generated costumes will be useful without plus. We’ll have to wait and see.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Colecovision wrote: »

There is no Transmog. It’s a costume generator. If you subscribe I don’t think it’s a huge deal. But non subs can’t dye costumes. So I’m not sure if the new generated costumes will be useful without plus. We’ll have to wait and see.

Yeah this worries me as a nonsubber at the moment. I can’t dye costumes. They are calling this a costume creator. Makes me think it makes a costume... something I can’t dye.

I haven’t followed the news closely so maybe this has been addressed? If not I suppose we will find out soon.

SirCritical

ESO+ members can wear guild tabard with costume (and both will be shown, not like it is now with costumes).

ParaNostram

OP, you have a right to believe whatever you want, but nah the more that's open for all players the better. There's already a million and one carrots attached to that ESO+ stick, we subscribers don't need any more.

Recremen

Dominoid wrote: »

ESO+ should get two outfit slots. Lose ESO+ you can no longer change the 2nd outfit.

@Dominoid

Two outfits slots is kind of garbo when we're talking about use-value, though. That's just a single extra costume, once, with no ongoing value. Ending the gold cost would be of continuous value as long as you're subscribed and would be in line with the other freedoms we've had such as costume dyeing. That's free and infinite use as long as we have the collectibles, as should the Outfit system be if we're subscribing.

Linaleah

here's an idea. give us an option to buy extra slots with gold. non subscribing players can only buy extra slots with crowns, subscribers can add them with gold. each extra slot costs increasingly more.

Recremen

coop500 wrote: »

Please don't take dying from us, dying is a huge part of this outfit creator thing.

What you guys can have is extra slots though, that won't be taking away stuff from us.

Fear not though, because now ESO+ members might get 8 free crown crates

@coop500

I didn't say anything about taking dyeing away, where did you get that idea? o_0 That would be dreadful.

Extra slots are pretty garbage in terms of use-value unless you really only have two outfits you ever want to wear. Negating the gold cost for changing outfits for ESO+ members would not be taking anything away from nonsubscribers and would be actually useful for people looking to change their look dramatically and often.

Also extra gambling boxes is garbage and not worth even a fraction of a DLC. They are Base Low Iniquitous garbage.

Dracane

ESO+ is a great deal, it's so fair. Few MMOs has such a fair subscription.
Of course they could always add more candy to it, just to get more people to buy ESO+ (which they will profit from greatly, both Zenimax and subscribers)

Recremen

ParaNostram wrote: »

OP, you have a right to believe whatever you want, but nah the more that's open for all players the better. There's already a million and one carrots attached to that ESO+ stick, we subscribers don't need any more.

@ParaNostram

I am not talking about taking away anything from other players. Where are people getting this idea? Do people just read titles and then ignore the whole rest of the post?

And do you not remember that whole thing last year about us missing a DLC every year due to the new release schedule? We aren't talking about adding extra carrots, we are talking about making up for a whole DLC. It's like missing a full meal at a 3-course dinner!

Recremen

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Colecovision wrote: »

There is no Transmog. It’s a costume generator. If you subscribe I don’t think it’s a huge deal. But non subs can’t dye costumes. So I’m not sure if the new generated costumes will be useful without plus. We’ll have to wait and see.

Yeah this worries me as a nonsubber at the moment. I can’t dye costumes. They are calling this a costume creator. Makes me think it makes a costume... something I can’t dye.

I haven’t followed the news closely so maybe this has been addressed? If not I suppose we will find out soon.

@vyndral13preub18_ESO

I understand the concern but I wouldn't be too worried about it, since it is NOT a costume-creation system but instead a new system with new mechanics that is only nominally similar to costumes. We can check on the PTS on Monday, but from the ESO Live it seems that dyeing was a normal part of the Outfit system and not something extra. Indeed, you actually go to a Dye Station to engage with the system! Though now it's called an "Outfit Station" or something similar and has some extra doodads attached to the dye station to demonstrate this. So it's probably going to be fine and exactly what you wanted.

Recremen

Linaleah wrote: »

here's an idea. give us an option to buy extra slots with gold. non subscribing players can only buy extra slots with crowns, subscribers can add them with gold. each extra slot costs increasingly more.

@Linaleah

That's not super appealing as you're still only getting a couple more outfits. That doesn't let you play around with new styles at all or show off the wealth of motifs in the game, it just makes it slightly more convenient if you only have a small handful of looks you want to use.

coop500

Recremen wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Please don't take dying from us, dying is a huge part of this outfit creator thing.

What you guys can have is extra slots though, that won't be taking away stuff from us.

Fear not though, because now ESO+ members might get 8 free crown crates

@coop500

I didn't say anything about taking dyeing away, where did you get that idea? o_0 That would be dreadful.

Extra slots are pretty garbage in terms of use-value unless you really only have two outfits you ever want to wear. Negating the gold cost for changing outfits for ESO+ members would not be taking anything away from nonsubscribers and would be actually useful for people looking to change their look dramatically and often.

Also extra gambling boxes is garbage and not worth even a fraction of a DLC. They are Base Low Iniquitous garbage.

You compared it to costume dyeing, that'd be horrible.

Recremen

coop500 wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Please don't take dying from us, dying is a huge part of this outfit creator thing.

What you guys can have is extra slots though, that won't be taking away stuff from us.

Fear not though, because now ESO+ members might get 8 free crown crates

@coop500

I didn't say anything about taking dyeing away, where did you get that idea? o_0 That would be dreadful.

Extra slots are pretty garbage in terms of use-value unless you really only have two outfits you ever want to wear. Negating the gold cost for changing outfits for ESO+ members would not be taking anything away from nonsubscribers and would be actually useful for people looking to change their look dramatically and often.

Also extra gambling boxes is garbage and not worth even a fraction of a DLC. They are Base Low Iniquitous garbage.

You compared it to costume dyeing, that'd be horrible.

@coop500

"This kind of system should definitely be open to all. But, like costume-dyeing, I feel that ESO+ members should see an additional benefit."

How I compare them is kind of a key factor here. I am not talking about limiting the system to ESO+ members. I go into exceptional detail regarding what I think the ESO+ benefit should be, in fact.

"Specifically, I believe that there should be no gold cost for changing outfits for ESO+ members."

I am not making things up here or creating limits where there aren't any. During the ESO Live and the giant dev post mania from yesterday, we found out a bunch of details about the Outfit system. One of the details is that in order to change your outfits, you need to pay a gold cost per piece, with the cost increasing based on the rarity of the style used. Anything from 100 gold for a basic racial motif to 2000 gold for rarer stuff. Per piece. All I'm saying is that if that's how they're doing it, a good subscriber benefit would be to just get rid of the gold cost. That's all.

MissBizz

Recremen wrote: »

Dominoid wrote: »

ESO+ should get two outfit slots. Lose ESO+ you can no longer change the 2nd outfit.

Dominoid

Two outfits slots is kind of garbo when we're talking about use-value, though. That's just a single extra costume, once, with no ongoing value. Ending the gold cost would be of continuous value as long as you're subscribed and would be in line with the other freedoms we've had such as costume dyeing. That's free and infinite use as long as we have the collectibles, as should the Outfit system be if we're subscribing.

One extra slot per character? that would be awesome

Recremen

MissBizz wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Dominoid wrote: »

ESO+ should get two outfit slots. Lose ESO+ you can no longer change the 2nd outfit.

Dominoid

Two outfits slots is kind of garbo when we're talking about use-value, though. That's just a single extra costume, once, with no ongoing value. Ending the gold cost would be of continuous value as long as you're subscribed and would be in line with the other freedoms we've had such as costume dyeing. That's free and infinite use as long as we have the collectibles, as should the Outfit system be if we're subscribing.

One extra slot per character? that would be awesome

@MissBizz

Would it, though? Let's think about the actual use value for extra slots. You have one additional outfit "free". You also have the convenience of not paying gold to change into that outfit and not having to go to a dye outfit station in order to switch it up. Now don't get me wrong, that's a nonzero use value, but is that really in line with the benefit of a DLC access every year? That's what we're measuring this against.

As such, I think it would be of a much more equivalent value if the gold cost for changing outfits was negated for subscribers. You can still buy extra slots for your tried-and-true outfits (and I certainly would for my main character's standard since-launch outfit), but you can also explore the richness of the game's motif selection with a greater degree of freedom. I mean, it's kind of off-message for us to be encouraged to get all these rare motifs if we have to go farm gold for hours just to try them out and show them off.

Like let's look at the numbers for a second. They said rare styles were up to 2000 gold per piece to change. I don't know how rare the every style is so let's just look at that. Take the recent Clockwork City DLC and the motifs released there. We'll say that the Horns of the Reach dungeon motifs count for that DLC, and conservatively say we've had two motifs to play with this quarter. Apostle and Ebonshadow style, right?

Now let's say you're trying to show these styles off in the new outfit system. We'll assume a two-handed weapon in each weapon slot, again playing it conservatively. That's still 9 slots at 2000 gold each, so that's 18k gold just to show off one of the styles, 36k for both. Oh wait but then there's light, medium, and heavy armor, so multiply that by 3 and we're at 108k gold to show off the new motifs from this quarter alone. That is, of course, not counting any mixing and matching you want to do, nor changing it up to other styles you know you like, etc.

So what does one extra outfit slot get for ESO+ members in this scenario? At best, 18k gold saved, but probably not even that since you most likely have to spend it the first time you make an outfit, too. Maybe you really like one of the motifs though so you add that to your "permanent" outfit slot and leave the other one open for experimentation. Neat, you now have a single convenient outfit. Again, it's a nonzero use value, but not exactly thrilling and not anywhere near the value for a missed DLC every year.

coop500

Recremen wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Please don't take dying from us, dying is a huge part of this outfit creator thing.

What you guys can have is extra slots though, that won't be taking away stuff from us.

Fear not though, because now ESO+ members might get 8 free crown crates

@coop500

I didn't say anything about taking dyeing away, where did you get that idea? o_0 That would be dreadful.

Extra slots are pretty garbage in terms of use-value unless you really only have two outfits you ever want to wear. Negating the gold cost for changing outfits for ESO+ members would not be taking anything away from nonsubscribers and would be actually useful for people looking to change their look dramatically and often.

Also extra gambling boxes is garbage and not worth even a fraction of a DLC. They are Base Low Iniquitous garbage.

You compared it to costume dyeing, that'd be horrible.

@coop500

"This kind of system should definitely be open to all. But, like costume-dyeing, I feel that ESO+ members should see an additional benefit."

How I compare them is kind of a key factor here. I am not talking about limiting the system to ESO+ members. I go into exceptional detail regarding what I think the ESO+ benefit should be, in fact.

"Specifically, I believe that there should be no gold cost for changing outfits for ESO+ members."

I am not making things up here or creating limits where there aren't any. During the ESO Live and the giant dev post mania from yesterday, we found out a bunch of details about the Outfit system. One of the details is that in order to change your outfits, you need to pay a gold cost per piece, with the cost increasing based on the rarity of the style used. Anything from 100 gold for a basic racial motif to 2000 gold for rarer stuff. Per piece. All I'm saying is that if that's how they're doing it, a good subscriber benefit would be to just get rid of the gold cost. That's all.

I'd be fine with removing the cost or a extra slot or even both

Colecovision

There was a band called the Happy Mondays and a song by the Mamas and the Papas called Monday Monday way before those guys rocked the clubs in Manchester.

Personally, I've griped way too much when this is really all about what we learn on Monday at this point.

Can non subs dye the new "outfits"?
How many vouchers for treasure boxes? I don't have 1250 for each.
What level do you get a free one? Is it always the same free one? I don't want to double up before I have them all.
Is everyone going to think they can actually design an outfit and the whole thing will actually be ugly when they can't? Green *** carpet with velvet wallpaper was once a real thing folks. Get ready for anything.

"Monday Monday"

Edit: Really? S-h-@-g carpet is not a bad word. It's visually offensive material, but don't censor the proper use of a word.

Sigtric

Dominoid wrote: »

ESO+ should get two outfit slots. Lose ESO+ you can no longer change the 2nd outfit.

I think this is the route to take as far as outfitting and ESO plus benefits

Acrolas

Double bank space and double transmutation stones were the features added to ESO+.

Double housing storage space would probably be underutilized. Perhaps an exclusive housing storage item for siege equipment, the one thing I still regularly use a mule for. An exclusive treasure hunter assistant/ housing storage item that will consume one random stored treasure map per day and mail you the contents? Could be convenient for large stacks of Cyrodiil maps. 10% discount on outfit costs to boost up the leveling perks a little bit?

I don't know. I'd rather them wait until a really good feature arises than add perks for things I don't really need a perk for and then not have room for later additions without a price increase.

MissBizz

Recremen wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Dominoid wrote: »

ESO+ should get two outfit slots. Lose ESO+ you can no longer change the 2nd outfit.

Dominoid

Two outfits slots is kind of garbo when we're talking about use-value, though. That's just a single extra costume, once, with no ongoing value. Ending the gold cost would be of continuous value as long as you're subscribed and would be in line with the other freedoms we've had such as costume dyeing. That's free and infinite use as long as we have the collectibles, as should the Outfit system be if we're subscribing.

One extra slot per character? that would be awesome

@MissBizz

Would it, though? Let's think about the actual use value for extra slots. You have one additional outfit "free". You also have the convenience of not paying gold to change into that outfit and not having to go to a dye outfit station in order to switch it up. Now don't get me wrong, that's a nonzero use value, but is that really in line with the benefit of a DLC access every year? That's what we're measuring this against.

As such, I think it would be of a much more equivalent value if the gold cost for changing outfits was negated for subscribers. You can still buy extra slots for your tried-and-true outfits (and I certainly would for my main character's standard since-launch outfit), but you can also explore the richness of the game's motif selection with a greater degree of freedom. I mean, it's kind of off-message for us to be encouraged to get all these rare motifs if we have to go farm gold for hours just to try them out and show them off.

Like let's look at the numbers for a second. They said rare styles were up to 2000 gold per piece to change. I don't know how rare the every style is so let's just look at that. Take the recent Clockwork City DLC and the motifs released there. We'll say that the Horns of the Reach dungeon motifs count for that DLC, and conservatively say we've had two motifs to play with this quarter. Apostle and Ebonshadow style, right?

Now let's say you're trying to show these styles off in the new outfit system. We'll assume a two-handed weapon in each weapon slot, again playing it conservatively. That's still 9 slots at 2000 gold each, so that's 18k gold just to show off one of the styles, 36k for both. Oh wait but then there's light, medium, and heavy armor, so multiply that by 3 and we're at 108k gold to show off the new motifs from this quarter alone. That is, of course, not counting any mixing and matching you want to do, nor changing it up to other styles you know you like, etc.

So what does one extra outfit slot get for ESO+ members in this scenario? At best, 18k gold saved, but probably not even that since you most likely have to spend it the first time you make an outfit, too. Maybe you really like one of the motifs though so you add that to your "permanent" outfit slot and leave the other one open for experimentation. Neat, you now have a single convenient outfit. Again, it's a nonzero use value, but not exactly thrilling and not anywhere near the value for a missed DLC every year.

If it was a slot per character, you are getting more than 1 extra outfit. Slots are not shared between characters. I am pretty sure the reasoning behind the gold is to act as a gold sink. Housing(mostly), bank space, inventory, horses... All those have a finish line where you are no longer spending your gold. Think of it this way... You get a 10% gold discount already since as a subscriber you are earning 10% more gold than a nonsub anyways.

Aliyavana

eso plus members should unlock holiday dyes permantly if they purchase them while they are a member

Recremen

MissBizz wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Dominoid wrote: »

ESO+ should get two outfit slots. Lose ESO+ you can no longer change the 2nd outfit.

Dominoid

Two outfits slots is kind of garbo when we're talking about use-value, though. That's just a single extra costume, once, with no ongoing value. Ending the gold cost would be of continuous value as long as you're subscribed and would be in line with the other freedoms we've had such as costume dyeing. That's free and infinite use as long as we have the collectibles, as should the Outfit system be if we're subscribing.

One extra slot per character? that would be awesome

@MissBizz

Would it, though? Let's think about the actual use value for extra slots. You have one additional outfit "free". You also have the convenience of not paying gold to change into that outfit and not having to go to a dye outfit station in order to switch it up. Now don't get me wrong, that's a nonzero use value, but is that really in line with the benefit of a DLC access every year? That's what we're measuring this against.

As such, I think it would be of a much more equivalent value if the gold cost for changing outfits was negated for subscribers. You can still buy extra slots for your tried-and-true outfits (and I certainly would for my main character's standard since-launch outfit), but you can also explore the richness of the game's motif selection with a greater degree of freedom. I mean, it's kind of off-message for us to be encouraged to get all these rare motifs if we have to go farm gold for hours just to try them out and show them off.

Like let's look at the numbers for a second. They said rare styles were up to 2000 gold per piece to change. I don't know how rare the every style is so let's just look at that. Take the recent Clockwork City DLC and the motifs released there. We'll say that the Horns of the Reach dungeon motifs count for that DLC, and conservatively say we've had two motifs to play with this quarter. Apostle and Ebonshadow style, right?

Now let's say you're trying to show these styles off in the new outfit system. We'll assume a two-handed weapon in each weapon slot, again playing it conservatively. That's still 9 slots at 2000 gold each, so that's 18k gold just to show off one of the styles, 36k for both. Oh wait but then there's light, medium, and heavy armor, so multiply that by 3 and we're at 108k gold to show off the new motifs from this quarter alone. That is, of course, not counting any mixing and matching you want to do, nor changing it up to other styles you know you like, etc.

So what does one extra outfit slot get for ESO+ members in this scenario? At best, 18k gold saved, but probably not even that since you most likely have to spend it the first time you make an outfit, too. Maybe you really like one of the motifs though so you add that to your "permanent" outfit slot and leave the other one open for experimentation. Neat, you now have a single convenient outfit. Again, it's a nonzero use value, but not exactly thrilling and not anywhere near the value for a missed DLC every year.

If it was a slot per character, you are getting more than 1 extra outfit. Slots are not shared between characters. I am pretty sure the reasoning behind the gold is to act as a gold sink. Housing(mostly), bank space, inventory, horses... All those have a finish line where you are no longer spending your gold. Think of it this way... You get a 10% gold discount already since as a subscriber you are earning 10% more gold than a nonsub anyways.

@MissBizz honestly we have enough gold sinks as it is. Luxury and Golden vendors for one, not to mention that housing is not something most players can "finish" since they are remarkably expensive to begin with (which is fine) and need to be decorated. Then there's motifs, recipes, furnishing plans, and a host of other things that are currently far beyond even a lot of hardcore players in terms of finishing any time soon. The only people no longer sinking gold into all of that are the market moguls, and that's because they've got so much gold lying around that they can buy up this sort of thing wholesale. They're not going to be suffering from a potential 18k a day expenditure. Regular players are, though.

As far as the outfit slots go the reasoning still holds on a per-character basis. Getting one extra outfit per character is not a huge use value, especially when most folks have a "main" that they play far more than others. It's still a remarkable gold burden on people who like to change things up a lot, and runs pretty counter to the "stamp collecting" aspect of the system. You're already sinking huge amounts of gold or grind time in order to get these motif pages, and now we have to spend huge sums every time we want to switch to a new one? It's definitely not ideal.