Hybrid, theories and build

Waffennacht

I've, for the longest time wanted to make a hybrid. But 1 was too divided and 2 had no real point (why be a hybrid when magicka do it all type mentality)

I couldn't get axiom outta my Head and it kept whispering (hybrid Sorc mate...) *For some reason axiom speaks with an Australian accent*

So I decided to give it a try.

Tried DW, 2H and SnB main with literally any weapon back bar.

What I have thus far:

Axiom x5 (x5 on front bar) SnB
Bone Pirate x5
Slimecraw x2

Witchmother's Brew

Stats:
25kish Mag
28kish Stam
20kish health

(Meh I know)

But spell DMG = 2.3k unbuffed, weapon DMG 3.2k unbuffed

Regen 1k mag 1,800 Stam

Mag crit 35% weapon crit 45%

Abilities: Curse, Wrath, Reverb, Heroic Slash, Vigor ult DboS

Bow back bar ATM: Power Surge, Streak, Hurricane, Poison injection, and Hardened Ward ult Atronach for passive ATM

Tooltips:

11k Curse
4k wrath + 11k explosion
4k reverb
7k heroic slash
12k DboS
900 + 150% hurricane

(These are without my infused wpn spell DMG procced)

Why SnB? Because it has a spammable and can use a burst ability and an execute (DW was meh and DS was meh too)

Burst is Curse, Wrath, heroic into DboS while injection ticks and hurricane ticks

Uber mobility streak + major expedition + minor expedition (so much so I dropped shuffle)

H Ward provides a 6k shield in PvP (no bastion) which is enough while fleeing. (Went with bow for this reason roll dodge into Major)

Haven't been able to use it much yet. Definitely took first place in the one BG match I did (crazy king)

Whatcha think? What can we expand on?

Minno

It's rumor that hybrids are close to viability (at least to the few people I've talked to). But still suffers from a few tweaks:

- two separate crit percentage and crit DMG stats.
- max DMG scaling
- fact that hybrids are technically Stam toons wearing pelinals/axiom.

I'll need to think about this more, especially since we now have axiom that will hopefully work with bol/other bugged skills in the next patch.

Waffennacht

The two crits are a thing, for PvP I feel 35-45% is fine (which I happily achieved)

Scaling, that's why I focused on wpn/spell DMG rather than resource pools.

Regen, I actually have a 50/50 Stam mag ratio so unless I'm poisoned sustain isn't any issue

Yeah, you're more a Stam too, but have access to an unblockable in dodgeable burst, a timed and normal execute, a spammable that gives heroism and snare, major defile + CC

I am actually surprised how well I did

Was dueling a DK duel spec (whom had resource poisons forcing me to run in circles during our duel lmfao) I mentioned how his build would suffer in BGs - he mentioned he has troubles in BGs, so we teamed up to show him how to do well.

I more than doubled the next highest score (cuz MOBILITY)

I don't expect to do as well as a dueling spec in a duel, but I do expect to perform extremely well in BGs.

_Salty_

Just after 1 tamriel I used senche with pelinals and kena+velidreth on a stamsorc. 2h and bow. 13k frags 14k dizzy swing. 12k curse. Id use curse into poison injection, bar swap hit wrath to proc a frag and crit rush in. Frag, curse and crit rush would hit almost all at once giving huge burst.

Your setup looks good.

Once the Axiom bugs get settled I think it would be great on a stamplar using BOL or a Nightblade.

DeadlyRecluse

Hybrid sorc would be a lot more fun if frags procced off of stamina abilities.

Waffennacht

_Salty_ wrote: »

Just after 1 tamriel I used senche with pelinals and kena+velidreth on a stamsorc. 2h and bow. 13k frags 14k dizzy swing. 12k curse. Id use curse into poison injection, bar swap hit wrath to proc a frag and crit rush in. Frag, curse and crit rush would hit almost all at once giving huge burst.

Your setup looks good.

Once the Axiom bugs get settled I think it would be great on a stamplar using BOL or a Nightblade.

The stamplar was my second thought too. But I was like, "is a stamplar running BoL really a hybrid?" - the answer is no, it's a stamplar with BOL (which is funny)

I just had a hell of a time landing DS/WB and wanted a monster set (Slimecraw buffs everything)

Felt like even though I lose axiom damage on the SnB abilities the utility they provide out weighs the DMG loss (plus heroic has like the same DMG as a normal force pulse)

Of course this is a rough draft. Pools can easily be adjusted.

_Salty_

Waffennacht wrote: »

_Salty_ wrote: »

Just after 1 tamriel I used senche with pelinals and kena+velidreth on a stamsorc. 2h and bow. 13k frags 14k dizzy swing. 12k curse. Id use curse into poison injection, bar swap hit wrath to proc a frag and crit rush in. Frag, curse and crit rush would hit almost all at once giving huge burst.

Your setup looks good.

Once the Axiom bugs get settled I think it would be great on a stamplar using BOL or a Nightblade.

The stamplar was my second thought too. But I was like, "is a stamplar running BoL really a hybrid?" - the answer is no, it's a stamplar with BOL (which is funny)

I just had a hell of a time landing DS/WB and wanted a monster set (Slimecraw buffs everything)

Felt like even though I lose axiom damage on the SnB abilities the utility they provide out weighs the DMG loss (plus heroic has like the same DMG as a normal force pulse)

Of course this is a rough draft. Pools can easily be adjusted.

I agree on many of your points. Have you thought about swapping heroic for pierce armor for the debuff? Or do you prefer the utility of heroic? More damage to all skills plus less cost vs. Snare, maim and minor heroism.

_Salty_

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Hybrid sorc would be a lot more fun if frags procced off of stamina abilities.

Agreed.

idk

Might want to get @usmcjdking thoughts. Iirc he likes hybrids and is at least active in PvP.

Waffennacht

@_Salty_ heroic for heroism (DboS is pretty key) and mainly it's the hardest hitting spammable I could think of.

I did run Frags at one point (I just had a hard time managing resources with a heavy loaded magicka front bar) - though not all impossible.

I'm actually quite entertained by this build

usmcjdking

@idk

Thanks for the shout-out.

Here is my hybrid's current build for open world PVP.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=33100

It's important to note that you will not be killing any serious PVPers as a hybrid unless you significantly outplay them. However, that doesn't mean you can't have fun. I'm busy Pvping atm but I'll put in some quick pros/cons.

PROS:
-Solid burst damage. I prefer Flawless over DBOS but both work.
-Decent mag sustain with VMA resto lets you use your overload bar frequently and to good effect.
-Fairly reliable execute and methods of keeping magblades/stamblades from kiting you.
-Good kiting potential vs slower builds.
-Easy resource return with VMA resto + Dark Deal.
-Lots of anti-block damage vs blockers.

CONS:
-No burst heal. This is huge when fighting outnumbered, and primarily why we use thief over any other mundus. Without thief we would have pathetic crits and have even worse HOTs.
- Not enough damage to break through most heavy armor stam builds. You have enough to earn their respect but they will outright outgun you in a drawn out fight.
- Limited to one ult. This is also huge. There are times where I wish I had a negate instead of a DB, or an Atro.
- Poor combat resource management. You have what I like to call "high effective resource pools" but you don't rubberband your resources in a few seconds like a dedicated build will.

Waffennacht

usmcjdking wrote: »

@idk

Thanks for the shout-out.

Here is my hybrid's current build for open world PVP.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=33100

It's important to note that you will not be killing any serious PVPers as a hybrid unless you significantly outplay them. However, that doesn't mean you can't have fun. I'm busy Pvping atm but I'll put in some quick pros/cons.

PROS:
-Solid burst damage. I prefer Flawless over DBOS but both work.
-Decent mag sustain with VMA resto lets you use your overload bar frequently and to good effect.
-Fairly reliable execute and methods of keeping magblades/stamblades from kiting you.
-Good kiting potential vs slower builds.
-Easy resource return with VMA resto + Dark Deal.
-Lots of anti-block damage vs blockers.

CONS:
-No burst heal. This is huge when fighting outnumbered, and primarily why we use thief over any other mundus. Without thief we would have pathetic crits and have even worse HOTs.
- Not enough damage to break through most heavy armor stam builds. You have enough to earn their respect but they will outright outgun you in a drawn out fight.
- Limited to one ult. This is also huge. There are times where I wish I had a negate instead of a DB, or an Atro.
- Poor combat resource management. You have what I like to call "high effective resource pools" but you don't rubberband your resources in a few seconds like a dedicated build will.

Looking at your build - it's lower in both Regen stats, bout the same in pool sizes, way less crit resistance, bit higher crit chance, lower crit damage, my wpn DMG is higher with a slightly lower spell damage

I don't run conversion - got me killed too many times, I'm full medium so I dodge roll a ton.

I don't like Pelinal, I've always thought that I can use another set to achieve the numbers wanted without sacrificing a full set.

I think fully buffed my wpn DMG is 4.2k with a 3.1k spell DMG

Interesting build tho. Gonna dissect a bit more

Lack of burst heal is covered by H ward + Hots

kaithuzar

Have you guys tried shacklebreaker with gold food?
I see what you did with bone pirate 5 piece & witch mothers though, so I take it that gives higher overall stats?

Actually pelinials might be worth if you paired it with tbs, weapon damage mundus + penetration mundus, + gold food, I think it's worth a try! That is if you can run pelinials jewelry, not sure if it's crafted or dropped.
You might be missing some crit resist b/c of running tbs divines, but I guess you could spec more cp into it & maybe run 5 heavy 1 light, 1 medium


Well f**k, both of those are crafted so kill that idea...

Waffennacht

kaithuzar wrote: »

Have you guys tried shacklebreaker with gold food?
I see what you did with bone pirate 5 piece & witch mothers though, so I take it that gives higher overall stats?

I wish we could craft jewelry, because axiom + shackle breaker seems to be perfect, but we can't do that unfortunately.

I was just looking for a medium set that gave good stats, and I can use everything that BP gives.

I haven't tried anything yet, that's why I posted, wanted to bounce some ideas.

Another idea was Amberplasm, but I don't have a complete set - and would change attributes etc

I went with Serpent and all wpn DMG Glyphs. I guess there's even more wiggle room in that.

CPs ended up being like +10% in everything with +21% in Direct DMG buff.

Shackle breaker vs Axiom, I personally feel Axiom is better for an offensive hybrid and shackle would be more defensive.

I could just imagine Shackle + Axiom + Slime (I also consider Domi + Keni, 8% and crit is a @#$& ton tho)

Waffennacht

Another set I consider is way of the air, the roll dodge adds to both weapon and spell, but I figured the loss in stamina and Stam Regen would just be too costly

Akinos

Waffennacht wrote: »

Another set I consider is way of the air, the roll dodge adds to both weapon and spell, but I figured the loss in stamina and Stam Regen would just be too costly

Way of the Air gives double stam regen though doesn't it? I thought about that set for a hybrid build also.

Waffennacht

Akinos wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Another set I consider is way of the air, the roll dodge adds to both weapon and spell, but I figured the loss in stamina and Stam Regen would just be too costly

Way of the Air gives double stam regen though doesn't it? I thought about that set for a hybrid build also.

It does, but then has the trap DMG Reduction Hardy

BP is... Like 4k Stam and 270ish regen

This would be ... 260ish Regen (not bad...) And 340 wpn/spell DMG... So actually just under the ratio for BP...

Hrmmmmmmm

Sustain would hurt a bit via lack of a pool, but you would gain 356 to Curse and a less extent Wrath.

Way of the air is in every single trader too...

Alrighty, go with Air, I could even sacrifice... 2k mag for 2k Stam making the Stam abilities hit harder, keep the same resource pools and still add 140ish spell damage equivalent to the build...

Would be roll dodge dependant, which shouldn't be an issue...

DboS or Flawless? With that much won DMG... You're looking at least 200 wpn passively from flawless

Solariken

Minno wrote: »

It's rumor that hybrids are close to viability (at least to the few people I've talked to). But still suffers from a few tweaks:

- two separate crit percentage and crit DMG stats.
- max DMG scaling
- fact that hybrids are technically Stam toons wearing pelinals/axiom.

I'll need to think about this more, especially since we now have axiom that will hopefully work with bol/other bugged skills in the next patch.

This is pretty much right on the money. But we're close guys, we're SOOO close. My current bow/resto hybrid Stamplar setup is pretty great and performs very well in group/bg, but does struggle toe-to-toe with meta setups. I was waiting to discuss it publicly to see if we get a CP increase next patch.

Minno

Waffennacht wrote: »

The two crits are a thing, for PvP I feel 35-45% is fine (which I happily achieved)

Scaling, that's why I focused on wpn/spell DMG rather than resource pools.

Regen, I actually have a 50/50 Stam mag ratio so unless I'm poisoned sustain isn't any issue

Yeah, you're more a Stam too, but have access to an unblockable in dodgeable burst, a timed and normal execute, a spammable that gives heroism and snare, major defile + CC

I am actually surprised how well I did

Was dueling a DK duel spec (whom had resource poisons forcing me to run in circles during our duel lmfao) I mentioned how his build would suffer in BGs - he mentioned he has troubles in BGs, so we teamed up to show him how to do well.

I more than doubled the next highest score (cuz MOBILITY)

I don't expect to do as well as a dueling spec in a duel, but I do expect to perform extremely well in BGs.

Waffennacht wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Another set I consider is way of the air, the roll dodge adds to both weapon and spell, but I figured the loss in stamina and Stam Regen would just be too costly

Way of the Air gives double stam regen though doesn't it? I thought about that set for a hybrid build also.

It does, but then has the trap DMG Reduction Hardy

BP is... Like 4k Stam and 270ish regen

This would be ... 260ish Regen (not bad...) And 340 wpn/spell DMG... So actually just under the ratio for BP...

Hrmmmmmmm

Sustain would hurt a bit via lack of a pool, but you would gain 356 to Curse and a less extent Wrath.

Way of the air is in every single trader too...

Alrighty, go with Air, I could even sacrifice... 2k mag for 2k Stam making the Stam abilities hit harder, keep the same resource pools and still add 140ish spell damage equivalent to the build...

Would be roll dodge dependant, which shouldn't be an issue...

DboS or Flawless? With that much won DMG... You're looking at least 200 wpn passively from flawless

I picked up that air set lol. They really need to get rid of that 4pc bonus; give it a max health or something that's not DMG related.

Brutusmax1mus

I've got a hybrid dk build with axiom, I'd never call it good, but its fun.

Metemsycosis

5 shackle (snb or dw)
5 way of the air (bow)
2 troll king, 1 domi/1 slime craw, 2 slimecraw, 2 kena, 2 valkyn skoria (if you're running so many dots)

Got the gold for prismatic glyphs?
Thief or lover or steed mundus.
I'd go with trifood or witchmothers. Again infused berserker enchantment.


(Berserker plus kena plus way of the air proc = ??)



--
Necropotence and way of the air isn't so bad on a nb hybrid btw. Use atro mundus and definitely nirnhorned sword. Might not be bad on a sorc either.

Morgul667

Interesting, I hope they will make hybrid worth it some day

teladoy

I've tried hybrid, there has to be a post of me explaining my experience and in short words hybrid builds are totally a failure in all senses.

When we talk about hybrid builds I believe we are referring to distribute all our stats in equal proportions between magicka, stamina and health. The same with glyphs and gear. We try to maximize all our stats per equal. Champion points the same.

The result is catastrophic and I'm talking for my own experience. You can try it in doing some duels if you want and this is gonna happen:

1- you will have no survivality. All your skills to keep you up will be underpowered, resulting in an easy way for enemies to kill you.

2- your damage will be bad. It doesn't matter which ability if stamina or magicka based. Your enemies will feel absolute not treat and will feel very free to do damage to you without have to be careful at all about their survivality.

3- you will eat all your resources in seconds. In order to use your skills to keep you up you trying to defend and do damage you will need to spam more your abilities feeling the frustration of can not no one of both effectively.

That's why is not a collective paranoia when you read every where how a failure hybrid builds are. I had to try it by myself before realize that.

DosPanchos

I've tried going hybrid on my stamplar using Pelinal's one time and a mixture of stats+willpower another and I did not have success. I could have improved drastically if I spent time refining it but it just wasn't that fun... I was slower, less offensive, and felt very bland.

BoL is the only reason I see in doing this and it isn't worth it imo.

Waffennacht

DosPanchos wrote: »

I've tried going hybrid on my stamplar using Pelinal's one time and a mixture of stats+willpower another and I did not have success. I could have improved drastically if I spent time refining it but it just wasn't that fun... I was slower, less offensive, and felt very bland.

BoL is the only reason I see in doing this and it isn't worth it imo.

Gotta say.... I've failed too

Draxys

I’ve never personally tried this, but I imagine you can reach excellent burst dmg numbers by forgoing undaunted sets (I’ve been less and less impressed by them lately). Back bar alchemist, front bar pelinal, agility jewelry. Or if you absolutely have to have undaunted sets, ravager and pelinal. No idea if it works in practice, but you could get decent numbers with it.

Elsterchen

teladoy wrote: »

I've tried hybrid, there has to be a post of me explaining my experience and in short words hybrid builds are totally a failure in all senses.

When we talk about hybrid builds I believe we are referring to distribute all our stats in equal proportions between magicka, stamina and health. The same with glyphs and gear. We try to maximize all our stats per equal. Champion points the same.

The result is catastrophic and I'm talking for my own experience. You can try it in doing some duels if you want and this is gonna happen:

1- you will have no survivality. All your skills to keep you up will be underpowered, resulting in an easy way for enemies to kill you.

2- your damage will be bad. It doesn't matter which ability if stamina or magicka based. Your enemies will feel absolute not treat and will feel very free to do damage to you without have to be careful at all about their survivality.

3- you will eat all your resources in seconds. In order to use your skills to keep you up you trying to defend and do damage you will need to spam more your abilities feeling the frustration of can not no one of both effectively.

That's why is not a collective paranoia when you read every where how a failure hybrid builds are. I had to try it by myself before realize that.

This!

Try a hybrid with one major (stamina OR magika) and do not put points into health (there is no reason to do so, if you get acess to healing skills OR high damage or tanky skills you would not use otherwise)

If you use pelinals push either weapon or spell damage to really make use of the 5 piece bonus. Shakle is not as effective as pelinals unless you use golden gear.

Minno

Draxys wrote: »

I’ve never personally tried this, but I imagine you can reach excellent burst dmg numbers by forgoing undaunted sets (I’ve been less and less impressed by them lately). Back bar alchemist, front bar pelinal, agility jewelry. Or if you absolutely have to have undaunted sets, ravager and pelinal. No idea if it works in practice, but you could get decent numbers with it.

wonderful thing about alch set, is that its heavily damage+health. Lets you find another set for your mag and another for your stamina. Basically splitting your stats.

For example, alch in light armor with ele drain+another source of skill sustain, will give you enough regen+penetration to run clever+dmg enchants+mundas for raw damage. Then because of the heavy dmg dump, you don't need as high max mag as you do with other mag builds. This lets you roll a stamina set + mag enchant+defensive monster helm; I think I was at 800-1000 stam regen, a 12k stam pool and 33-34k mag pool with 1600-1800 mag regen but sitting at 12000-15280 penetration, 3500-4000 SD, and 10-16% cost reduction on mag skills.

I think the flipside can happen for stamina builds using medium armor. But then again, this isn't a hybrid build lol.

We need max stats to only boost your pool level, this way all players (mag, stam or hyrbids) wont be punished if they stack equal stam/mag/health and we can finally see other enchants in daily play.

Waffennacht

I'm pretty bummed honestly, i broke my own promise to myself and wasted too much gold.

Kinda depressing all my gold savings only is worth 2 gold weapons >:/

Lexxypwns

At present I don’t believe a true stam/mag hybrid is viable.

However, there are health/resource hybrids that are somewhat viable now in various situations

Biro123

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'm pretty bummed honestly, i broke my own promise to myself and wasted too much gold.

Kinda depressing all my gold savings only is worth 2 gold weapons >:/

I know exactly what you mean... One of the things I love about MMOs is crafting builds.. But I just don't have the cash anymore, nor the inclination to farm