How to STOP zerging

Goshua

Irylia wrote: »

snipped

how do you enforce '3 factions send a small group of 6'?

I guess you could cut the benefit by x amount for every player over it

and i don't like the idea of increasing resource points, right now I wished they make them not worth anything actually

Raudgrani

Vaoh wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Remove aoe caps, and place more meaningful PvP objectives all around the map. We need to remove rewards for stacking and create positive incentives for spreading, not negative incentives for stacking.

^
Also buff Zerg killing abilities such as Magicka Detonation. Increase the damage buff per enemy hit and reduce the cast time.

It’s AoE Caps that will always force stacking to be the superior way to play. Stacking is naturally not the best idea since you are susceptible to bombers and lots of AoE attacks hitting lots of players in your group, but it definitely becomes the #1 “strat” when you gain near invulnerability via AoE Caps for doing it.

No, because that's what "ze zerg" is using these days.

I have one idea though: Put a time cap on resurrects with soul gems, just as with spawning at forward camps. The thing to kill the very same player like 8 times in the one and same battle, is really getting old. Especially if you are defending a keep with a much smaller group. The only hope you got, is for a friendly group to appear and strike them in the back. There's no other way of defeating them.

Zbigb4life

DivineFirstYOLO wrote: »

Hello,

one idea on how to prevent people from zerging/stacking one alliance on one spot - what if players would get a debuff if they stay near each other?

First thought:

Let's say players of the same alliance have an invisible circle around them with a 10m radius.
If player's circle overlap you get a debuff depending on how many circles overlap.

Second thought:

Let's say 1-6 players are one unit - they don't get any negative effects, no debuff if their circles overlap.
Now let's say there is one more player - a 7th player near that group and all their circles overlap - now all of them would get
a HP debuff for example, all of them would have 1% less max health.

Let's say there is player #8 around there too - well, all of them would have 2% less max health.

9th player - 3% less max health and so on ...


The debuff should be exponential so that bigger groups suffer more - the more circles overlap, the less HP players would have.

Chosen figures are just examples, ZOS would have to adjust them, also health debuff is just one option - you could take other debuffs like dealing less damage, less healing, etc.


What do all fellow non zerglings think about this idea? Would that work and would it be a good idea? How could we change the idea to make it more suitable?
Give some constructive criticism please - it's about time we stop 80 men zergs.
If the majority doesn't like the idea at all, I will delete this post so ZOS doesn't see it

Why do you play a MMO if you only wanna 1v1. Go play COD then...

Raudgrani

Zerg zerg zerg... People accuse you of "zerging" if you run like a 12 man group, but only if you kill them. Otherwise you are noobs, PVE'ers or whatever. Cyrodiil is meant to be a large scale PVP, i.e. "Zerg vs Zerg vs Zerg", not Battlegrounds or "my 1vX territory". Of course, running small groups is a great and necessary thing too - but "stopping zerging" would be like contrary to what the game is meant to be, obviously.

My only problem with "zerging", is when a eye-of-flame/vd/proxy explosion group is at the front of it, backed up by half a dozen healers. That needs to go. It really does. And no, I'm not part of zerging myself, not since this destro ulti/vd meta came up. Now I go solo. I might be in a group so I'm more aware of what's going on, but I basically go solo anyway.

Defilted

What is wrong with Cyro combat in general concerning large groups? I really do not see the issue. Smaller scale combat? BG's or Imperial city.

You can still run around solo or small group in Cyro you just have to pick you battles and make sure you are not engaging with the large groups. I PVP almost everyday. With organized groups(Large 24 players), sometimes small organized groups( 3 to 6), sometimes solo. All of it is possible and fun.

People are going to group up in Cyro becasue it is easier for them to be successful. This is not an issue. Skilled payers in smaller groups are going to be able to take on larger zergs. I see it all the time. I have done it myself. Just happened yesterday in face. We were out numbers 3 to 1 and we won several times.

I really do not see the issue with zergs..

Alphaa

Reduce server-side calculations (remove AoE caps) = increased performance..

Which in turn allows single target abilities to be cast in a timely manner in prime time, which in turn allows people to actually play solo or small groups, which in turn takes more people out of the big faction stack Zergs, which in turn increases performance further...

I know i know, im a genius..

Raudgrani

DDuke wrote: »

You know, it'd be quite easy for ZOS to really discourage stacking/zerging with skill design.

There is currently only one skill that scales based on how many other players are nearby: Magicka Detonation.


What we need is more skills like Detonation, ones available to stamina builds too (side note: maybe this would also reduce the amount of gap closer->rev slice spamming Xv1 builds as well?).

For instance, I think ZOS missed a great opportunity with the Wardens' Growing Swarm morph - they should've made that morph keep spreading infinitely until players split up.


Bottom line is: one anti-zerg ability in the game isn't nearly enough.

The answer to the zerg must be another zerg, or simply strategy. Send 4 nightblades to flag their home keeps or whatever. "Anti zerg" tools, yeah - great. But what happens when THE ZERG runs these tools in front of their zerg? I'll tell you: It's like they did at least at the last campaign on Xbox EU. People leave the campaign, go to the US server, switch alliance and so on. That's what happens.

The current AD "emp group" is decent, good players (unlike the last one) and they don't do that [snip]. The former "emp group" went back to being tower farmers, that I couldn't care less about.

[Edited to remove profanity]

fastolfv_ESO

your assuming "zerging" is bad in a mmo with 3 factions at war. What you should actually looking at is what had spread pvp out earlier in the games life? answer is more guilds. Solos and pug grps will always bunch and follow a pre determined track around the emp keeps. Guilds will create action for themselves off the beaten path to draw people away, zenimax gave up on pvp and guilds left so were left with faction stacks on a track

SodanTok

This is kinda game designed around large masses of people.
Not really problem of mechanics that 50 people are hunting 1 guy around tower, because it is the only fight on the whole map. And while many gameplay changes really benefited zerg play over solo play, main reason people stack is still that there is nothing else to do. People were spread out because there were fights to spread out to. Now population and server stability barely manages to hold 2 large scale fights around outposts and everyone is there.

That is ofc assuming you mean zerg in the right term as in using overwhelming odds to defeat the little guy. If you complain there are 50v50 fights then you are in the wrong game (or at least wrong zone).

courier

The idea of changing the amount of AP you get for pvdooring a keep is very appealing, with that they should also change the amount of AP for a defensive tick... Many times a few of us will defend against many for like a 1k tick... The reason we are so few is because the other bigger groups would rather just wait and pvdoor it for the o tick the little 1k tick not worth the ride.

In short, adjust the amount of o and d tick you get based on your factions numbers at said keep, you bring 40 guys to pvdoor give like 500ap.

DivineFirstYOLO

Let me define again - for those people that can't read and for the trolls - what i understand under the term "zerging":
Fing 80 people coming to one keep and hunting 12 people (my group - nope, i don't do 1on1) - i have no problems with other 12 men groups, no problem with 24 men groups, but 80 people on the same spot to leech an 6k tick is ridiculous.

@Zbigb4life

Zbigb4life wrote: »

Why do you play a MMO if you only wanna 1v1. Go play COD then...

Why do post on this thread if you don't have anything useful to say? so far all the other people brought good ideas.

Sanct16

The only mechanic that ever spread people put were the old forward camps

kpittsniperb14_ESO

courier wrote: »

The idea of changing the amount of AP you get for pvdooring a keep is very appealing, with that they should also change the amount of AP for a defensive tick... Many times a few of us will defend against many for like a 1k tick... The reason we are so few is because the other bigger groups would rather just wait and pvdoor it for the o tick the little 1k tick not worth the ride.

In short, adjust the amount of o and d tick you get based on your factions numbers at said keep, you bring 40 guys to pvdoor give like 500ap.

This guy gets it.....one of the worst changes to ESO pvp aside from the lighting patch debacle. Ironically, the changes to AP scoring was intended to encourage players to play the objectives and was in response to the last round of forum salt about organized groups farming AP. While done with good intention I'm sure, this change has been one of the biggest contributors to the faction stacking mega blob zerg from keep to keep issue we have going on right now. It is simply more efficient AP wise to do this and is the path of least resistance....unintended consequences or intended? Let's discuss.

Zerging has been in the game since launch and is found in any MMO that has an open world features so I'm not sure that there is anything that can be done to completely eliminate it however, there are a few things that ZOS could do to discourage the behavior. The game launched without AOE caps on most abilities whether intentional or not and, coupled with dynamic ultimate, enabled much smaller organized groups to wipe huge huge huge numbers of players....those that played since launch know what I'm talking about. Adding sets like Earthgore and abilities like destro ultimates isn't helping.

Unfortunately I believe that the Cyrodiil we have right now is exactly what the developers want and is in fact their intended vision. They are raising the floor and lowering the ceiling in pvp just like they said they would and the end result is zerg blobs. The counter to zergs has always been the organized group be it a 6, 8, 12 or 16 man. Those groups used to be empowered by the game mechanics and had the tools to take down zergs and, as a consequence, would usually be off on their own fighting around the map creating conflict and spreading the population out. The mechanics that allowed this were heavily nerfed in 2016 due to feed back from the community and the nerfing of sustain in Morrowind struck another blow to organized groups pushing the few that remain to build into the destro ball meta which contrary to what you may read, takes quite a bit of organizational skill and teamwork to pull off well. Those groups that used to exist on the margins but couldn't adapt can now be found stacking with the zerg. Alot of others left the game entirely.

And here we are in 2018 discussing yet again how to nerf organized group play (not this thread I know) because they are the problem. I know that this thread isn't necessarily about organized groups but they need to be included in any discussion about countering zergs.

Vencenzo

I second the invert aoe caps proposal.

Aoes should hit 10% harder per person within their range.

This would not benefit aoe spamming trains and still benefit small groups/bombers.

Drdeath20

Cancer unkillable groups with overheal sets, resource draining poisons, potions that create zero counterplay, allinace swapping, stale game design etc. Etc... are much greater problems with cyro than zergs.

IxSTALKERxI

For every person who joins a group larger than 6, the healing done and received to players not in the group, decreases by 10% until a group of 16, which at that point they basically become a separate entity. So like if two groups of 16 tried to heal each other they couldn't. People wouldn't be able to just surf a guild and ride their tailcoats. Ungrouped players and players in small groups could still support each other with heals like normal.

Zbigb4life

DivineFirstYOLO wrote: »

Let me define again - for those people that can't read and for the trolls - what i understand under the term "zerging":
Fing 80 people coming to one keep and hunting 12 people (my group - nope, i don't do 1on1) - i have no problems with other 12 men groups, no problem with 24 men groups, but 80 people on the same spot to leech an 6k tick is ridiculous.

@Zbigb4life

Zbigb4life wrote: »

Why do you play a MMO if you only wanna 1v1. Go play COD then...

Why do post on this thread if you don't have anything useful to say? so far all the other people brought good ideas.

Why I post: because it's my opinion. If you don't like it that's your problem! The fact that you can't stand an opinion that's not the same as yours says it all!!!

I get it that you don't like it when 80 people get an 6k tick but again that's your problem. If you don't like go play BG or something else but stop complaining.

It's not that hard to respect an other opinion but it seems hard for you. Next time I will ask you what I can write so that you don't have an issue with other opinions