Remove immobilize immunity from forward momentum

Domander

Remove immobilize immunity from forward momentum, keep the snare immunity, extend the immunity duration.

I think this would help balance out the heavy armor 2h *immune to everything* builds.

Ragnarock41

SO, I'm guessing you're one of those root spammers or a very salty mDk, which one is it?

Domander

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SO, I'm guessing you're one of those root spammers or a very salty mDk, which one is it?

Neither, you don't have anything constructive to add? That's a shame.

Roots are pretty well balanced after the bombard changes and the immunity after a dodge roll was added.

Ragnarock41

Domander wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SO, I'm guessing you're one of those root spammers or a very salty mDk, which one is it?

Neither, you don't have anything constructive to add? That's a shame.

Roots are pretty well balanced after the bombard changes and the immunity after a dodge roll was added.

Roots aren't well balanced. They are everywhere and they are anti-melee.
Seriously we have enough snare/root spam already.
There is a very good reason why everyone runs forward momentum instead of rally now.

BECAUSE OTHERWISE YOU CANT TAKE A SINGLE STEP.

Malamar1229

Honestly if zos' s vision was to promote AvA gameplay and teamwork, they shouldn't give access to all this stuff to each class. At least classes would have distinct identities. Give DKs the roots, give NBs the snares, give sorcs mobility, and Templars can burn in hell


The snares/roots are over the top

Koolio

Domander wrote: »

Remove immobilize immunity from forward momentum, keep the snare immunity, extend the immunity duration.

I think this would help balance out the heavy armor 2h *immune to everything* builds.

Everyone thought it would be a good idea to separate shuffle from heavy. Now this is the result. People adapted. The move has been this strong for a long time. Nobody used it

Sincerely
A DW MNB.

Waffennacht

It's more than necessary, snares/roots are so powerful without a counter many classes become unviable

ak_pvp

As much as it pains my achy breaky magDK heart, root removal is necessary. If not, the last remaining counter to zergs/groups (mobility) is gone.

CyrusArya

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SO, I'm guessing you're one of those root spammers or a very salty mDk, which one is it?

If my memory from bgs yesterday is correct, he is a mageblade. So cripple spam.

As to the topic, the balance to momentum is that you don’t get a burst heal (sans wardens). How does it even make sense that a skill called momentum would allow you to get immobilized and rooted in place? Lol.

If it only helped with snares or roots but not both, the skill would be useless. Would rather just run rally and face tank while rooted, snared, and hating the game. Or play medium armor.

GandTheImpaler

When every skill tree in the game has a snare or root. Would be balanced.

Hutch679

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Honestly if zos' s vision was to promote AvA gameplay and teamwork, they shouldn't give access to all this stuff to each class. At least classes would have distinct identities. Give DKs the roots, give NBs the snares, give sorcs mobility, and Templars can burn in hell


The snares/roots are over the top

I agree. I'd like to stack more magicka on my mag builds so I don't need the stamina to dodge roll out of snares. Can you sense the sarcasm? Snares are necessary to prevent magicka and stamina builds from being invincible.

leepalmer95

Hutch679 wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Honestly if zos' s vision was to promote AvA gameplay and teamwork, they shouldn't give access to all this stuff to each class. At least classes would have distinct identities. Give DKs the roots, give NBs the snares, give sorcs mobility, and Templars can burn in hell


The snares/roots are over the top

I agree. I'd like to stack more magicka on my mag builds so I don't need the stamina to dodge roll out of snares. Can you sense the sarcasm? Snares are necessary to prevent magicka and stamina builds from being invincible.

They've needed tuning since release though.

Snares are currently way to strong and there is just so many ways to get them, basically every skill lines has multiple snares. For such a strong effect you should have to specifically slot a skill to get it and not just have in it a build without trying.

It needs standardising as well. Needs to be a minor and major version of a debuff which snares with the major being capped at like 30-40% snare at most.

Because those 60-70% snares on some skills are just stupid. Your character literally stands still.

If anything this game needs a lot more options to deal with snares/ roots in the range of how effective forward momentum is.

Arthg

If you want to tinker with FM, you need to take a look at all the other snaring and rooting skills. ALL OF THEM.

Fascinating how these calls for nerfs never take into account the big picture.
They usually only serve the OPs' narrow agendas.

davey1107

I don’t know why people were so abrasive in this thread, lol...it wasn’t THAT odd a request.

Forward Momentum has been one of the best abilities in the game for a long time...it might benefit from being scaled down a bit. Maybe...not sure. I always thought it seemed stupid to stack all those buffs on one single weapon skill...it seemed like it would have made more sense to offer major brutality on one weapon type, then bows get snare immune, DW gets HOTs, etc. But no...ZOS loves to make certain abilities so ridiculously better than others that everyone in the game is running them.

The roots and snares in pvp right now are really uncomfortable to play. You end up being either entirely impossible to snare and it seems unfair, or you get snared every two seconds and is utterly obnoxious. Maybe the worst thing about being snared over and over is that it can get hard to tell if it’s snares, broken abilities or lag. They all kinda play the same.

Like tonight I kept getting an effect where I’d get hit and my character would stand up and walk a couple of feet in slow motion. On the one hand I thought maybe I was getting hinder poison, but after like 30 times it seemed unlikely everyone was using that...and I don’t think any ability is supposed to do what was happening. So...mystery of the night...

imredneckson

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Honestly if zos' s vision was to promote AvA gameplay and teamwork, they shouldn't give access to all this stuff to each class. At least classes would have distinct identities. Give DKs the roots, give NBs the snares, give sorcs mobility, and Templars can burn in hell


The snares/roots are over the top

<--Magicka Templar

Zer0oo

Everyone should be perm snared and rooted. Make forward momentum useless so everyone can enjoy the pleasure what magicka classes did feel since ages.

Vaoh

I’d only support this if we removed like 80% of the snares/roots from the game. They’re attached to so many skills that have no business applying effects like that to you. Every Ardent Flame ability snares. Stampede snares. Sun Fure snares, NB Fear CCs you.... and then snares!

... but the Chilled status effect and Ice Staff Heavy Attacks no longer snare...
Like tf. Makes no sense

Without Forward Momentum you have no chance at 1vX/ small group play against a large group as Stam. I’m guessing you want it gone because you probably couldn’t Zerg someone down while spamming snares and roots? That’s the only reason.

Kode

The problem is that there are way too many sources of snare in the game, some of which are reapplied often and there is very little counterplay to snares... or in the case of forward momentum, it is overpowered against snares.
Abilities like purge are too costly and cant be spammed to counterplay. If you are closed in on by a DK with cinder storm you need to purge to drop it off of you and try to get distance before being snared again.

Elusive mist has big limitations; obviously you need to be a vampire to have access to it in the first place. Then when you do use it, you stop regenerating magicka which basically makes it an extremely high cost ability.. and you unable to cast or attack while you move, which means your opponent is going to continue to pressure you.

Finally forward momentum is overpowered. 20 seconds of immunity is way too much, it should probably be brought down to complete removal of root and snare effects with 5 seconds of immunity to follow up. The ability would still be very strong but would force players to continue to contend with soft CC abilities, not just cast one skill and become immune for 20 seconds which is plenty of time for a stamina dps to lay out some serious damage unimpeded.

Shuffle only gives 3.5 seconds of immunity and is a well balanced ability considering it also has major evasion.

Forward momentum gives major brutality and 20 seconds... it is too much.

Waffennacht

It gives immunity only for 8 secs when maxed, the heal and brutality is 20 some secs

Domander

Maybe I need to clarify, I think it should keep the 8 second snare immunity.

Immobilize is a different mechanic.

There's a lot of posts too focused on snares.

Liofa

Stamina players give up the only burst heal they have for that immunity . So , no .

Kartalin

Liofa wrote: »

Stamina players give up the only burst heal they have for that immunity . So , no .

This. Way too many skills add snares.

Raudgrani

FFS., there's already enough "wait, stand still so I can spam my lashes (or whatever) at you" in this game. Frankly, I'd rather see the whole root/snare thing removed completely. Stuns is one thing, I can live with that. But this... No.

Juhasow

Domander wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SO, I'm guessing you're one of those root spammers or a very salty mDk, which one is it?

Neither, you don't have anything constructive to add? That's a shame.

Roots are pretty well balanced after the bombard changes and the immunity after a dodge roll was added.

Roots and snares are far from beeing well ballanced. If they would then Your QQ abour Forward Momentum wouldnt exist. You know perfectly that roots and snares are too strong hence You perfectly know this is the reason why skill that can counter it is strong also. You wouldnt complain about counter to weak controlling effects. Forward Momentum isnt the problem it's just result of snares and roots beeing overpowered and problematic in current state of the game.

Zenimax should implement 4+ seconds immunity to snares and root if currently applied snare or root will finish it duration and minor/major category for snares long time ago. 2 seconds immobilize immunity after dodge is laughable half baked solution. It's sick that someone can constantly keep root/snare on enemie that basicly makes this person target practice.

Domander

Juhasow wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SO, I'm guessing you're one of those root spammers or a very salty mDk, which one is it?

Neither, you don't have anything constructive to add? That's a shame.

Roots are pretty well balanced after the bombard changes and the immunity after a dodge roll was added.

Roots and snares are far from beeing well ballanced. If they would then Your QQ abour Forward Momentum wouldnt exist. You know perfectly that roots and snares are too strong hence You perfectly know this is the reason why skill that can counter it is strong also. You wouldnt complain about counter to weak controlling effects. Forward Momentum isnt the problem it's just result of snares and roots beeing overpowered and problematic in current state of the game.

Zenimax should implement 4+ seconds immunity to snares and root if currently applied snare or root will finish it duration and minor/major category for snares long time ago. 2 seconds immobilize immunity after dodge is laughable half baked solution. It's sick that someone can constantly keep root/snare on enemie that basicly makes this person target practice.

You know what is really sick? with forward momentum and an expedition pot you can have the same effect of rapid maneuver while using all your abilities.

Maybe you would prefer it to be balanced in the same way as rapid maneuver? I wouldn't, but if you all keep insisting....

Waffennacht

Domander wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SO, I'm guessing you're one of those root spammers or a very salty mDk, which one is it?

Neither, you don't have anything constructive to add? That's a shame.

Roots are pretty well balanced after the bombard changes and the immunity after a dodge roll was added.

Roots and snares are far from beeing well ballanced. If they would then Your QQ abour Forward Momentum wouldnt exist. You know perfectly that roots and snares are too strong hence You perfectly know this is the reason why skill that can counter it is strong also. You wouldnt complain about counter to weak controlling effects. Forward Momentum isnt the problem it's just result of snares and roots beeing overpowered and problematic in current state of the game.

Zenimax should implement 4+ seconds immunity to snares and root if currently applied snare or root will finish it duration and minor/major category for snares long time ago. 2 seconds immobilize immunity after dodge is laughable half baked solution. It's sick that someone can constantly keep root/snare on enemie that basicly makes this person target practice.

You know what is really sick? with forward momentum and an expedition pot you can have the same effect of rapid maneuver while using all your abilities.

Maybe you would prefer it to be balanced in the same way as rapid maneuver? I wouldn't, but if you all keep insisting....

It's funny to hear people talk about rapid maneuver as if it's not for horses (edit or large gameplay, but that's not nearly as funny)

Domander

Waffennacht wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SO, I'm guessing you're one of those root spammers or a very salty mDk, which one is it?

Neither, you don't have anything constructive to add? That's a shame.

Roots are pretty well balanced after the bombard changes and the immunity after a dodge roll was added.

Roots and snares are far from beeing well ballanced. If they would then Your QQ abour Forward Momentum wouldnt exist. You know perfectly that roots and snares are too strong hence You perfectly know this is the reason why skill that can counter it is strong also. You wouldnt complain about counter to weak controlling effects. Forward Momentum isnt the problem it's just result of snares and roots beeing overpowered and problematic in current state of the game.

Zenimax should implement 4+ seconds immunity to snares and root if currently applied snare or root will finish it duration and minor/major category for snares long time ago. 2 seconds immobilize immunity after dodge is laughable half baked solution. It's sick that someone can constantly keep root/snare on enemie that basicly makes this person target practice.

You know what is really sick? with forward momentum and an expedition pot you can have the same effect of rapid maneuver while using all your abilities.

Maybe you would prefer it to be balanced in the same way as rapid maneuver? I wouldn't, but if you all keep insisting....

It's funny to hear people talk about rapid maneuver as if it's not for horses (edit or large gameplay, but that's not nearly as funny)

It used to be used by ball groups and zergs to run all over and be unstoppable. It used to wear off when you attacked anything, now it wears off after casting anything.

They weren't on horses.

That's why "people talk about rapid maneuver as if it's not for horses" because it's not only for horses.

It was never something you could keep on while attacking without another person rebuffing you with it, which is the point, it's extremely OP. Being immune to roots, snares, CC all while being able to heal and use abilities like normal just throws counter play out the window.

If you want the immunity and extra mobility then run medium armor and be the same as everyone who doesn't use a 2h. I think shuffle is balanced by the short duration, the need for medium armor, and the fairly high stam cost.

Minno

Domander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SO, I'm guessing you're one of those root spammers or a very salty mDk, which one is it?

Neither, you don't have anything constructive to add? That's a shame.

Roots are pretty well balanced after the bombard changes and the immunity after a dodge roll was added.

Roots and snares are far from beeing well ballanced. If they would then Your QQ abour Forward Momentum wouldnt exist. You know perfectly that roots and snares are too strong hence You perfectly know this is the reason why skill that can counter it is strong also. You wouldnt complain about counter to weak controlling effects. Forward Momentum isnt the problem it's just result of snares and roots beeing overpowered and problematic in current state of the game.

Zenimax should implement 4+ seconds immunity to snares and root if currently applied snare or root will finish it duration and minor/major category for snares long time ago. 2 seconds immobilize immunity after dodge is laughable half baked solution. It's sick that someone can constantly keep root/snare on enemie that basicly makes this person target practice.

You know what is really sick? with forward momentum and an expedition pot you can have the same effect of rapid maneuver while using all your abilities.

Maybe you would prefer it to be balanced in the same way as rapid maneuver? I wouldn't, but if you all keep insisting....

It's funny to hear people talk about rapid maneuver as if it's not for horses (edit or large gameplay, but that's not nearly as funny)

It used to be used by ball groups and zergs to run all over and be unstoppable. It used to wear off when you attacked anything, now it wears off after casting anything.

They weren't on horses.

That's why "people talk about rapid maneuver as if it's not for horses" because it's not only for horses.

It was never something you could keep on while attacking without another person rebuffing you with it, which is the point, it's extremely OP. Being immune to roots, snares, CC all while being able to heal and use abilities like normal just throws counter play out the window.

If you want the immunity and extra mobility then run medium armor and be the same as everyone who doesn't use a 2h. I think shuffle is balanced by the short duration, the need for medium armor, and the fairly high stam cost.

FM is countered by Stam builds having to choose between a burst heal or mobilty on top of choosing 2h weapon.

For mag builds, even 2300 cost is steep considering all it does is break snares. Mist form is superior in that it at least gives you better mitigation than block and makes you immune to cc attempts.

FM is fine as is.

Juhasow

Domander wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SO, I'm guessing you're one of those root spammers or a very salty mDk, which one is it?

Neither, you don't have anything constructive to add? That's a shame.

Roots are pretty well balanced after the bombard changes and the immunity after a dodge roll was added.

Roots and snares are far from beeing well ballanced. If they would then Your QQ abour Forward Momentum wouldnt exist. You know perfectly that roots and snares are too strong hence You perfectly know this is the reason why skill that can counter it is strong also. You wouldnt complain about counter to weak controlling effects. Forward Momentum isnt the problem it's just result of snares and roots beeing overpowered and problematic in current state of the game.

Zenimax should implement 4+ seconds immunity to snares and root if currently applied snare or root will finish it duration and minor/major category for snares long time ago. 2 seconds immobilize immunity after dodge is laughable half baked solution. It's sick that someone can constantly keep root/snare on enemie that basicly makes this person target practice.

You know what is really sick? with forward momentum and an expedition pot you can have the same effect of rapid maneuver while using all your abilities.

Maybe you would prefer it to be balanced in the same way as rapid maneuver? I wouldn't, but if you all keep insisting....

Well what is sick is Your logic here. You actually compare skill that was main tool for zergs to skill that works for 1 player. It's literally the same like comparing old Purge spam in zergs to current 1 magplar spamming Extended Ritual. You also want to take away this skill because for 1 player it works similar like one of the skills worked for zergs in the past ?

There is huge difference between tuning down skill that makes zergs potent and skill that makes 1 person potent.

Like I said earlier Forward Momentum isnt a issue. The issue is current state of snares and immobilizes that are too easy to apply and to hard to deal with so that forces people to use Forward Momentum , because it cost much more the attacked one to deal with snares and immobilizes then to apply them by the attacker.

[Snip].

[Edited to remove bait]

Domander

Juhasow wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SO, I'm guessing you're one of those root spammers or a very salty mDk, which one is it?

Neither, you don't have anything constructive to add? That's a shame.

Roots are pretty well balanced after the bombard changes and the immunity after a dodge roll was added.

Roots and snares are far from beeing well ballanced. If they would then Your QQ abour Forward Momentum wouldnt exist. You know perfectly that roots and snares are too strong hence You perfectly know this is the reason why skill that can counter it is strong also. You wouldnt complain about counter to weak controlling effects. Forward Momentum isnt the problem it's just result of snares and roots beeing overpowered and problematic in current state of the game.

Zenimax should implement 4+ seconds immunity to snares and root if currently applied snare or root will finish it duration and minor/major category for snares long time ago. 2 seconds immobilize immunity after dodge is laughable half baked solution. It's sick that someone can constantly keep root/snare on enemie that basicly makes this person target practice.

You know what is really sick? with forward momentum and an expedition pot you can have the same effect of rapid maneuver while using all your abilities.

Maybe you would prefer it to be balanced in the same way as rapid maneuver? I wouldn't, but if you all keep insisting....

You actually compare skill that was main tool for zergs to skill that works for 1 player.

It's the only other ability that gives long term snare/root immunity and speed. (shuffle will be difficult to keep the immunity active so it's not really comparable) .... and it's always been balanced by it wearing off if you attack.

The original discussion is removing root immunity, I'd even be ok with forward momentum removing roots but not giving the immunity. Skill for skill.


So much hate in your post, makes it difficult to have a discussion

Juhasow

Domander wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SO, I'm guessing you're one of those root spammers or a very salty mDk, which one is it?

Neither, you don't have anything constructive to add? That's a shame.

Roots are pretty well balanced after the bombard changes and the immunity after a dodge roll was added.

Roots and snares are far from beeing well ballanced. If they would then Your QQ abour Forward Momentum wouldnt exist. You know perfectly that roots and snares are too strong hence You perfectly know this is the reason why skill that can counter it is strong also. You wouldnt complain about counter to weak controlling effects. Forward Momentum isnt the problem it's just result of snares and roots beeing overpowered and problematic in current state of the game.

Zenimax should implement 4+ seconds immunity to snares and root if currently applied snare or root will finish it duration and minor/major category for snares long time ago. 2 seconds immobilize immunity after dodge is laughable half baked solution. It's sick that someone can constantly keep root/snare on enemie that basicly makes this person target practice.

You know what is really sick? with forward momentum and an expedition pot you can have the same effect of rapid maneuver while using all your abilities.

Maybe you would prefer it to be balanced in the same way as rapid maneuver? I wouldn't, but if you all keep insisting....

You actually compare skill that was main tool for zergs to skill that works for 1 player.

It's the only other ability that gives long term snare/root immunity and speed. (shuffle will be difficult to keep the immunity active so it's not really comparable) .... and it's always been balanced by it wearing off if you attack.

It was ballanced to fade away when You attack because it was AoE with 30 seconds immunity+speed buff. Here You have 8 seconds single target immunity buff. How can You even compare 30 seconds to 8 calling them both "long term" ones is beyond me. You are comparing skills that shouldnt be compared like I mentioned earlier it's like comparing old Purge to current Extended Ritual. Yes both do similar thing but under so different conditions that comparing both is pointless.