What race is most real life Native Americans?

zawizard

I was thinking Redguard for the skin color, but their culture isn't excatly the same or resembles much of it.So what race does match the culture closely?

ArchMikem

zawizard wrote: »

I was thinking Redguard for the skin color, but their culture isn't excatly the same or resembles much of it.

Yeah, skin color has nothing to do with a people and their culture. Redguard are meant to resemble a Middle Eastern people, perhaps Persians maybe.

The closest people would be Argonians, as they're modeled after the ancient Central American civilizations. But native North Americans of the 1600s-ish? I dunno, maybe the Reachmen, maybe the Kothringi?

Froil

Lore and culture wise, as close to native American culture and civilization as this game can be, most definitely Argonians but they aren't like North American natives, more like Central American natives.

Nightfall12

Trying to compare real world to fantasy can be a slippery slope, I know trying to lump all the vastly different Native Tribes together is not something they would appreciate. There is just as Much if not more separating the Inuits culturally from The Seminoles as there is separating the English from the Italians, so this kind of broad grouping can result in some stereotyping that is bound to offend someone. But that being said I'm not implying your intentions are filled with malice and I imagine you want to do this in a respectful way, so you have to ask what it is you are trying to emulate first and then go from there.Then we can help narrow it down.

The Argonian temples are clearly influenced by the tribes of South America, so there is a starting point as ArchMikem pointed out.

zawizard

Nightfall12 wrote: »

Trying to compare real world to fantasy can be a slippery slope, I know trying to lump all the vastly different Native Tribes together is not something they would appreciate. There is just as Much if not more separating the Inuits culturally from The Seminoles as there is separating the English from the Italians, so this kind of broad grouping can result in some stereotyping that is bound to offend someone. But that being said I'm not implying your intentions are filled with malice and I imagine you want to do this in a respectful way, so you have to ask what it is you are trying to emulate first and then go from there.Then we can help narrow it down.

The Argonian temples are clearly influenced by the tribes of South America, so there is a starting point as ArchMikem pointed out.

I can see were your coming from, and I can see how some people can be offended. As a native american myself, I would to represent my culture for RP purposes. Argonian is a great place to start, maybe Wood Elf I can see.

imredneckson

ArchMikem wrote: »

zawizard wrote: »

I was thinking Redguard for the skin color, but their culture isn't excatly the same or resembles much of it.

Yeah, skin color has nothing to do with a people and their culture. Redguard are meant to resemble a Middle Eastern people, perhaps Persians maybe.

The closest people would be Argonians, as they're modeled after the ancient Central American civilizations. But native North Americans of the 1600s-ish? I dunno, maybe the Reachmen, maybe the Kothringi?

^This

WhiteCoatSyndrome

ArchMikem wrote: »

Redguard are meant to resemble a Middle Eastern people, perhaps Persians maybe.

I got more of an Ancient Egyptian vibe from them, what with the mummies and all the ibis-headed bas reliefs (I think they're supposed to be Tava but they look like Thoth).

MythicEmperor

zawizard wrote: »

Nightfall12 wrote: »

Trying to compare real world to fantasy can be a slippery slope, I know trying to lump all the vastly different Native Tribes together is not something they would appreciate. There is just as Much if not more separating the Inuits culturally from The Seminoles as there is separating the English from the Italians, so this kind of broad grouping can result in some stereotyping that is bound to offend someone. But that being said I'm not implying your intentions are filled with malice and I imagine you want to do this in a respectful way, so you have to ask what it is you are trying to emulate first and then go from there.Then we can help narrow it down.

The Argonian temples are clearly influenced by the tribes of South America, so there is a starting point as ArchMikem pointed out.

I can see were your coming from, and I can see how some people can be offended. As a native american myself, I would to represent my culture for RP purposes. Argonian is a great place to start, maybe Wood Elf I can see.

Yeah, Argonians certainly resemble some Native tribes (especially in their architecture, as was already pointed out), as do the Bosmer in their own way. I'm no expert on Argonian culture (nor am I on Native culture), but I can certainly say that the Bosmeri hunter-gatherer lifestyle, coupled with their ritual markings, is at least indicative of Native influence.

On a side note, I usually find the most fun in playing the role of someone far from what I am IRL. For example, having German and Germanic heritage (which shares an ancestry with the Nordic peoples, originally having the same gods and all), I should play a Nord. Contrary to this, I main an ash-skinned Dunmer whose values are opposed to my own. Why? I am always myself IRL. Here, I don't have to be. I can look through unfamiliar eyes.

On another a side note, I find it funny when someone takes the time to be offended for a group without taking into consideration that the person they are offended by is a member of that group.

ArchMikem

To be more specific, I'd say Argonian's are supposed to represent the Maya the most.

However now that I think about it, I'd say Reachmen are very similar to Native North Americans.

Kierro

As it's been said, the Argonians are the closest to Native Americans. Mostly Mayans and Aztec, as seen by their temples.

Imperials are the Romans.
Nords are of based off real Nords.
Khajiit are Indians, at least how I view them with their Buddhist/Hindu style of religion.
Redguards are Persians, as said above.
I read Bosmer were based off Asians, like Mongolians (don't quote me)
Bretons I think were what the British were once called.
Altmer... I don't know what culture they're based off of, if any. Same with Orcs. I knew what Dunmer were but I forget.

Korah_Eaglecry

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Redguard are meant to resemble a Middle Eastern people, perhaps Persians maybe.

I got more of an Ancient Egyptian vibe from them, what with the mummies and all the ibis-headed bas reliefs (I think they're supposed to be Tava but they look like Thoth).

Yes and no. The Redguards appear to represent a wide range of North African and Persian cultures all at once from different time periods. From the Moors to the Egyptians and maybe even as far north as Turkey. I think Bethesda didnt want to zero in on just one culture from the region and so we got a mixing pot.

Varana

The ancient Yokudan temples are very much inspired by Persepolis in Iran:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persepolis#/media/File:Tachara,_Persepolis.jpg
So yeah, they're a wild mixture of North/Northeast Africa and the Middle East.

Argonian architecture is very much Mayan, i.e. Central America. As for Native North Americans, I don't think there's an obvious parallel.

Azurya

zawizard wrote: »

I was thinking Redguard for the skin color, but their culture isn't excatly the same or resembles much of it.So what race does match the culture closely?

why? Are there no longer any native americans alive?

There should be, there are reservats were they should be at least.
if you really want to encounter them, best go there.
ESO is another universe, a pocketrealm in the mind of some ZOS ppl(that is a very special tribe, strange^^)

altemriel

sorry, none

Shardan4968

Isn't it obvious? Argonians = South America, Ashlanders = North America. Didn't you play TES3??

OtarTheMad

elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Kidtragic/Elder_Scrolls_Races_and_Cultures_Compared_to_Real_Life.

This is the closest thing I have found but as usual everything is up for speculation.

ArchMikem

Kierro wrote: »

Altmer... I don't know what culture they're based off of, if any. Same with Orcs. I knew what Dunmer were but I forget.

Id call Orcs as the Mongols kinda.

MythicEmperor

Kierro wrote: »

As it's been said, the Argonians are the closest to Native Americans. Mostly Mayans and Aztec, as seen by their temples.

Imperials are the Romans.
Nords are of based off real Nords.
Khajiit are Indians, at least how I view them with their Buddhist/Hindu style of religion.
Redguards are Persians, as said above.
I read Bosmer were based off Asians, like Mongolians (don't quote me)
Bretons I think were what the British were once called.
Altmer... I don't know what culture they're based off of, if any. Same with Orcs. I knew what Dunmer were but I forget.

An important thing to keep in mind is that no TES race directly parallels any real life culture. Another thing to think about is that the races mostly have a late Medieval twist on the cultures they draw from.

For example, the ‘Roman’ Imperials have full plate armor, as do the Norse-inspired Nords. Neither of these real-life inspirations had such armor. The Romans had Lorica Segmentata, a segmented armor that left the arms and legs exposed, although this was largely countered wth the Scutum shield. They of course also wore Lorica Hamata, which was a sort of mail tunic.

The Norsemen would wear nasal or spectacle helmets and mail byrnies, but the games give the Nords full plate armor. Why? This is probably to keep them technologically up to par with their knightly Breton cousins. Speaking of Bretons, they were actually Celts who settled in modern-day France. This was also long before the rise of plate armor, so their name is only loosely attached to their in-game aesthetic.

Redguards can’t only be likened to Persians. They have influences from many Middle Eastern and North African cultures, as was previously mentioned. They also have some Japanese names sprinkled in.

Mer are the hardest to categorize. They can’t be directly likened to real life cultures as they are so alien, but you can still see inspiration. The Bosmer, as I detailed in a previous post, are similar to Native Americans, but you are right to also compare Argonians to the Natives.

Altmer nationalism resembles Chinese nationalism, although their emphasis on naval superiority reminds me of the British.

The Orsimer are drawn from many eastern cultures, and they remind me of the Mongols, at least aesthetically. This is of course a loose comparison.

Dunmer culture is perhaps the most difficult to pin down. The Ashlanders remind me of Middle Eastern tribes of old, and the Great Houses are unique spins on traditional archetypes. It’s also worth mentioning that Vivec was inspired by the Hindu god Ardhanarishvara.

My knowledge on Khajiit culture is limited, so I won’t draw any connections there.

Keep in mind these conclusions are based solely on my understanding of real-world cultures, so there is certainly room for error.

Korah_Eaglecry

Kierro wrote: »

As it's been said, the Argonians are the closest to Native Americans. Mostly Mayans and Aztec, as seen by their temples.

Imperials are the Romans.
Nords are of based off real Nords.
Khajiit are Indians, at least how I view them with their Buddhist/Hindu style of religion.
Redguards are Persians, as said above.
I read Bosmer were based off Asians, like Mongolians (don't quote me)
Bretons I think were what the British were once called.
Altmer... I don't know what culture they're based off of, if any. Same with Orcs. I knew what Dunmer were but I forget.

Khajiit have quite a bit of inspiration being pulled from South Eastern Asian cultures. Their ruins and temples resemble temples youll find through out countries like Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia.

Bosmer are closer to the uncontacted Amazonian tribes. The stories of cannabalism and extreme xenophobia resembling closely the stories of people making contact with tribes that have been out of contact with the rest of the world.

Redguards are closer to North African civilizations like the Moors. Though as the poster above pointed out. There is also a weird Japanese tie in there.

Bretons are a mix of a few western european cultures including the English and the French. The city states clashing could be references to the English, the Welsh, Scots and Irish clashing.

Altmer are probably the most traditional of high fantasy. Most of their inspirations dont seem to have any ties to things in the real world.

Orcs are based on the Mongolians. Very much the real world horde.

Dunmer seem to be a deep cross of of arabic and asian influences. Those twisted spirals on the rooves of their houses, Ive seen it somewhere before but I cant place it.

Argonians are definitely a mix of Mayan and Aztec influences.

emilyhyoyeon

I also saw someone mention that khajiit house architecture is very similar to indonesian:


to me khajiit seem more inspired by south and southeast asian cultures rather than ancient egyptian or persian, although khajiit culture seems to include all of them. Khajiit names are often the same as or inspired by indian/hindi names also

ArgonianTemplar

I would have said Bosmer for sure because they have slight builds, live closer to nature, etc. All fits with Amerindian. But their architecture and clothes and the like obviously do not draw from known native influences much.

Argonian dress in ESO obviously draws heavily from Aztec/Mayan etc so that's a direct link to Amerindians. They also fit the part in ESO with their shamans and connection to nature.

But I'd still lean Bosmer.

Redguards are very clearly African/Middle Eastern.

Varana

The parallel between Orcs and Mongols quickly breaks down once we consider how much the Mongols were steppe nomads with horses and herds playing a huge role in their culture while the Orc homeland is mostly mountainous, echateres aren't really a sufficient replacement for yaks, only some of them are kind of nomadic, and their lives centre around strongholds that don't move around (and in Orsinium, are built of stone).

It's always only parts that are similar, never the whole thing, and most often, even rather peripheral or random parallels.

As for Amerindians, we shouldn't forget the huge variety of what Amerindian cultures were. Mesoamerican cultures like the Maya and Aztec are quite different from Amazonian tribes; what we see as classical North American natives like the Iroquois or Sioux, are quite distinct from each other, and in many aspects a result of the Europeans coming to the Americas; and that's not mentioning the militaristic bureaucracy of the Incas or the natives of Alaska or northern Canada, and so on.

Bosmer might be a parallel to some cliché aspects of Amerindians but isn't really fitting for Hopi or other Pueblo peoples, and so on. So when looking for a representation in the ES universe, it very much depends on what aspects you want to have represented.

OfTheEight

This might help, it's a book from lore. Not sure if roleplaying them will be frowned upon, but they do exist in ESO timeline.

The Ternion Monks
by Elgad the Scribe
On the diminishing Ternion Monks

Some call them a cult. Others say worse things. But the Ternion Monks carry on a tradition that honors the Three Old Gods and the totems associated with them. While the religion is ancient, its followers are few. In many respects, the Ternion movement is slowly dying, as very little proselytizing takes place by the current contingent of monks. Fewer and fewer converts take up the worship of the Three Old Gods, and soon the religion may become nothing but a vague memory.

Known for their healing magic, the Ternion Monks can call forth aspects of the Three Old Gods. With the help of these aspects, the monks can perform tasks beyond the scope of mere mortal limitations. The aspects take the forms of the Three Old Gods: the Fox, the Bear, and the Wolf.

The Fox is crafty and quick, and its aspect enhances the speed and agility of the monks who call upon him.

The Bear is strong, mighty. A protector. The aspect of the Bear enhances strength and shields those who call upon him from harm.

The Wolf is sly and observant, ferocious and deadly. She watches and waits, looking for the best opportunity to make her move. The aspect of the Wolf enhances vision and perception, allowing those who call upon her to see more clearly, to notice the hidden and the obscure.

The Ternion Monks prefer nigh-inaccessible spots as places to meditate and worship. Often, the only way to get to these holy retreats is to use the magic of the monks. A guardian is always appointed to open the way to the retreat, but will only do so for other monks or if the need is great and the requester is worthy.

I have spent time with the monks, learned something of their ways and seen their healing magic in action. I believe that they are good people, following a worthy tradition. But I fear that when this generation comes to an end, the Ternion Monks and the Three Old Gods they worship will fade away.

And that will be a sad day, indeed.

Tyrobag

The Dunmer Ashlanders resemble their culture most closely.

pod88kk

I would have thought bosmer as they're so close to nature

KyleTheYounger

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Kierro wrote: »

As it's been said, the Argonians are the closest to Native Americans. Mostly Mayans and Aztec, as seen by their temples.

Imperials are the Romans.
Nords are of based off real Nords.
Khajiit are Indians, at least how I view them with their Buddhist/Hindu style of religion.
Redguards are Persians, as said above.
I read Bosmer were based off Asians, like Mongolians (don't quote me)
Bretons I think were what the British were once called.
Altmer... I don't know what culture they're based off of, if any. Same with Orcs. I knew what Dunmer were but I forget.

Khajiit have quite a bit of inspiration being pulled from South Eastern Asian cultures. Their ruins and temples resemble temples youll find through out countries like Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia.

Bosmer are closer to the uncontacted Amazonian tribes. The stories of cannabalism and extreme xenophobia resembling closely the stories of people making contact with tribes that have been out of contact with the rest of the world.

Redguards are closer to North African civilizations like the Moors. Though as the poster above pointed out. There is also a weird Japanese tie in there.

Bretons are a mix of a few western european cultures including the English and the French. The city states clashing could be references to the English, the Welsh, Scots and Irish clashing.

Altmer are probably the most traditional of high fantasy. Most of their inspirations dont seem to have any ties to things in the real world.

Orcs are based on the Mongolians. Very much the real world horde.

Dunmer seem to be a deep cross of of arabic and asian influences. Those twisted spirals on the rooves of their houses, Ive seen it somewhere before but I cant place it.

Argonians are definitely a mix of Mayan and Aztec influences.

2018 Summerset Isle DLC Update: Aldmer architecture on Summerset Isle is UNIQUELY DIFFERENT than what you see in Auridon. The architecture in Summerset is a LOT more like a fantasy version of King's Landing in Games of Thrones.

But in offshore islands like Vulkhen Gauard, the architecture has strong eastern/Asiatic & Islamic influences. The soaring towers in places like Vulkhel Guard are very similar to Islamic minarets. And overall, Aldmeri architectural design is appears to be a bizarre mix of Khajit and Dunmer (who used to be Chimer before Azura transformed them) architecture.

Culturally, and religiously, Altmer (in both upcoming Summerset Isle and current ESO) are most like N.A.Z.I Germany in their xenophobia and cultural purity mindset TBH. Or a WWII Japan or modern day N. Korea. They're obsessed with keeping their culture pure AND believe they are racially and genetically superior to all the other races (including other Mer). This is because of their (single player TES and ESO) belief that they are the only direct descendants of the Elphony Old Bones. Hence their fanatic belief in the Eight (v. Nine) Divines.

Which is why Aldmeri society is always at odds with the rest of the races in Tamriel. And why the White-Gold Concordant happened after Oblivion, with Hammerfell's succession from the Empire. And the reason for the rise of the 2nd Aldmeri Dominion. And the reason for all the racial and religious strife in modern day Skyrim.

Seriously, what's with the PC? Are HISTORIC and Webber's Dictionary words like N.A.Z.I censored on this forum??? SERIOUSLY?

Itacira

I agree about the Ashlanders, they are the closest possible in game. My experience of Morrowind was that the lore incorporated a lot of subtlety and politics in their depiction, making them believable as a society in a way that (if memory serves right) prevented a lot of unpleasant stereotypes.

As for "Bosmer because they're close to nature" I feel this is absolute nonsense. The Bosmer's relationship to nature is completely different to the ones Native Americans had/have - or to the idea we have of it. I mean, hello-oh, the GREEN PACT ?! There's absolutely no proper comparison to real living communities (that I know of).

As for Native Americans, which ones ? south america ? north america ? central america ? are we talking people from the mountains, the plains, the coast, the forest.

notimetocare

Someone made a laughably bad racial comparison a while back. Nothing but assumptive stereotypes. Skin, and form, has nothing to do with culture. Check the uesp for each race and you can get an idea of cultures amd their real world inspiration.

One example: Imperials are distinctly Roman. As old Rome no longer exists. The modern close Comparison is USA. A cosmopolitan people that still holds their own cultural values in high regard. They do not ban practices native to immigrant cultures so long as it does not violate then norms of the dominant society. A good example, there is no ban on practicing Islam, but an immigrant cannot come here and marry a minor.

Luigi_Vampa

Like people have said, Argonians are Mayan, Aztec in influence. While the Bosmer are hunters and close to nature, they don't really have much in common. If I had to lump North American Native Americans together, I'd say the Dunmer Ashlanders probably have the most similar society. Some ancestor worship, living off the land, being outsiders to an oppressive government (the great houses). They are also nomadic to a certain extent.

notimetocare

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

Like people have said, Argonians are Mayan, Aztec in influence. While the Bosmer are hunters and close to nature, they don't really have much in common. If I had to lump North American Native Americans together, I'd say the Dunmer Ashlanders probably have the most similar society. Some ancestor worship, living off the land, being outsiders to an oppressive government (the great houses). They are also nomadic to a certain extent.

Ashlanders is more of a comparison on actions against them than their own culture here. Nomadic lifestyle is the only good comparison to native Americans but many ancient, sometimes Primitive, cultures were nomadic.