About wrecking blow and cast time

Ragnarock41

I don't think I need to explain it too much.

Wrecking blow/dizzying swing are skills that mainly used for PvP, and both morphs are ridicilously hard to use in the current game meta.

I'm writing this because Im afraid doing heavy attacks are easier than using this skill at the moment, and IF ZOS reduces the heavy attack delay, I can just use heavy attacks buffed with molten armaments, and completely outperform and also outsustain a wrecking blow build. Not to mention how weak it is against SnB builds because you can't find an opening to land a blow.

I think dizzying swing is kinda fine with the cast time because It packs a strong CC. Its hard to land yes, but when you land it, It rewards you with an opening to do a burst combo. And someone with slow reactions isn't gonna survive that blow.

But wrecking blow lacks purpose. Wrecking blow just won't work unless you try it on a practice dummy. Its just as clunky/punishing as dizzy swing, but nowhere near as rewarding.

So I think this morph should be reworked into an instant cast ability.

This is not my own idea but Its not that hard to realize that wrecking blow is inferior to dizzying swing in every way, and the cast time on a melee spammable is just too punishing in the current game meta, where everything is moving too fast, and when the lag kicks in, both morphs are impossible to use.

So please ZOS, consider making this ability a bit faster,maybe reduce the tooltip, remove the empower, but It just needs to change.

Koolio

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I don't think I need to explain it too much.

Wrecking blow/dizzying swing are skills that mainly used for PvP, and both morphs are ridicilously hard to use in the current game meta.

I'm writing this because Im afraid doing heavy attacks are easier than using this skill at the moment, and IF ZOS reduces the heavy attack delay, I can just use heavy attacks buffed with molten armaments, and completely outperform and also outsustain a wrecking blow build. Not to mention how weak it is against SnB builds because you can't find an opening to land a blow.

I think dizzying swing is kinda fine with the cast time because It packs a strong CC. Its hard to land yes, but when you land it, It rewards you with an opening to do a burst combo. And someone with slow reactions isn't gonna survive that blow.

But wrecking blow lacks purpose. Wrecking blow just won't work unless you try it on a practice dummy. Its just as clunky/punishing as dizzy swing, but nowhere near as rewarding.

So I think this morph should be reworked into an instant cast ability.

This is not my own idea but Its not that hard to realize that wrecking blow is inferior to dizzying swing in every way, and the cast time on a melee spammable is just too punishing in the current game meta, where everything is moving too fast, and when the lag kicks in, both morphs are impossible to use.

So please ZOS, consider making this ability a bit faster,maybe reduce the tooltip, remove the empower, but It just needs to change.

Seen a few of my friends lately using it on Stam Dk. They will fossilize wrecking blow for the 26k tooltip Dragon Leap. I personally haven't tried it.

Ragnarock41

Koolio wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I don't think I need to explain it too much.

Wrecking blow/dizzying swing are skills that mainly used for PvP, and both morphs are ridicilously hard to use in the current game meta.

I'm writing this because Im afraid doing heavy attacks are easier than using this skill at the moment, and IF ZOS reduces the heavy attack delay, I can just use heavy attacks buffed with molten armaments, and completely outperform and also outsustain a wrecking blow build. Not to mention how weak it is against SnB builds because you can't find an opening to land a blow.

I think dizzying swing is kinda fine with the cast time because It packs a strong CC. Its hard to land yes, but when you land it, It rewards you with an opening to do a burst combo. And someone with slow reactions isn't gonna survive that blow.

But wrecking blow lacks purpose. Wrecking blow just won't work unless you try it on a practice dummy. Its just as clunky/punishing as dizzy swing, but nowhere near as rewarding.

So I think this morph should be reworked into an instant cast ability.

This is not my own idea but Its not that hard to realize that wrecking blow is inferior to dizzying swing in every way, and the cast time on a melee spammable is just too punishing in the current game meta, where everything is moving too fast, and when the lag kicks in, both morphs are impossible to use.

So please ZOS, consider making this ability a bit faster,maybe reduce the tooltip, remove the empower, but It just needs to change.

Seen a few of my friends lately using it on Stam Dk. They will fossilize wrecking blow for the 26k tooltip Dragon Leap. I personally haven't tried it.

I mean in paper it sounds fine, but in practice Its just so not worth it.

I guess it might be very good vs dodge roll spammers, since petrify and leap are both undodgeable.

But then again, Its slower than using something like:

heavy attack into crit rush > dizzy swing then instant leap/dawnbreaker.

This is a much faster combo in practice, Im pretty sure.

Tho that being said, the real problem still exists, Its clunky to use, and a good player will kite you, spin around you so you can't land it properly.

Edit: gave the petrify-wrecking blow a shot. Absolutely garbage.

Waffennacht

Really glad they separated the effects

Ragnarock41

Waffennacht wrote: »

Really glad they separated the effects

before the nerf it was overperforming for sure.
But at the moment it feels like poop.

I mean.. sure I can 3 shot pugs with it but thats about it.
SnB weave gives me just about same dps so, why bother with 2h?
Even stamsorcs are riding the SnB-seventh legion meta.(and before someone cries for a nerf, legion heal is bugged and procs like crazy. It needs a fix, not a nerf.)

I think the issue is seriously the uppercut ability itself. Feels like If 2h had a more reliable spammable, more people would use it over SnB.

Kanar

For DK the only reason I see to use uppercut is because it is possible to connect with it. Other ability combos are stronger but rely on LA weaving which is difficult to do in lagfest cyrodiil. I mean, sometimes I'm light attacking and the animation plays but it doesn't even do anything. Then if you want to bar swap as part of your combo, heh good luck. The slow pace of uppercut is useful because at least the ability will execute.

Ragnarock41

Kanar wrote: »

For DK the only reason I see to use uppercut is because it is possible to connect with it. Other ability combos are stronger but rely on LA weaving which is difficult to do in lagfest cyrodiil. I mean, sometimes I'm light attacking and the animation plays but it doesn't even do anything. Then if you want to bar swap as part of your combo, heh good luck. The slow pace of uppercut is useful because at least the ability will execute.

light weaving with dizzy swing takes real practice to do efficiently.. and Its impossible to do when it gets laggy.

however light weaving with wrecking blow is kind of pointless because Its much better to just spam it non-stop, or combo with a leap/dawnbreaker.

and miats is a big big offender to why this ability is useless.

cloak is already a hard counter to this ability, and miats just makes it worse.

Waffennacht

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

For DK the only reason I see to use uppercut is because it is possible to connect with it. Other ability combos are stronger but rely on LA weaving which is difficult to do in lagfest cyrodiil. I mean, sometimes I'm light attacking and the animation plays but it doesn't even do anything. Then if you want to bar swap as part of your combo, heh good luck. The slow pace of uppercut is useful because at least the ability will execute.

light weaving with dizzy swing takes real practice to do efficiently.. and Its impossible to do when it gets laggy.

however light weaving with wrecking blow is kind of pointless because Its much better to just spam it non-stop, or combo with a leap/dawnbreaker.

and miats is a big big offender to why this ability is useless.

cloak is already a hard counter to this ability, and miats just makes it worse.

Even as a console player I want Miats gone

Thogard

Learn how to pull off a “macro slice” (doesn’t actually involve macros) so that you can and cancel the dizzy

Dizzy sucks in duels but it’s good in small group or large group PvP. As long as the enemy isn’t specifically focused on you, it isn’t too hard to land. Just be sure to pair it with stampede and do a heavy attack first for the extra dmg

Ragnarock41

Thogard wrote: »

Learn how to pull off a “macro slice” (doesn’t actually involve macros) so that you can and cancel the dizzy

Dizzy sucks in duels but it’s good in small group or large group PvP. As long as the enemy isn’t specifically focused on you, it isn’t too hard to land. Just be sure to pair it with stampede and do a heavy attack first for the extra dmg

So what do I do when my enemy is a stamblade with eternal hunt that keeps spamming dodge rolls, cloak and fear, and doing weaves between them?

Do I sit in a corner and cry? go back to SnB?

I mostly end up going back to SnB. nothing like having a spammable that actually works.

exeeter702

One thing that adds to the issue of this skill, is a combination of it being the only hard cast melee skill in the game and ZOSs seemingly zealous insistence on avoiding traditional mmo ui features like the plague unless they absolutely have to, in some kind of effort to appear not like a tradtional mmo. With a proper cast bar built into the game for abilities that absolutely operate on cast times, it would be much easier to determine fall off points for uppercut when visuals are disrupted or hard to make out.

Most of the advice anyone would try to offer is useless, the skill has limmited use with how cc immunity and mobility generosity operates in this game. There are ways to use the skill effectively, such as kind of leading the target by strafing far enough for them not to roll through you (which most educated players do). But even then, its a crap shoot.

Ragnarock41

exeeter702 wrote: »

One thing that adds to the issue of this skill, is a conbination of it being the only hard cast melee skill in the game and ZOSs seemingly zealous insistence on avoid traditional mmo ui features like the plague unless they absolutely have to, in some kind of effort to appeal not like a tradtional mmo. With a proper cast bar built into the game for abilities that absolutely operate on cast times, it would be much easier to determine fall off points for uppercut when visuals are disrupted or hard to make out.

Most of the advice anyone would try to offer is useless, the skill has limmited use with how cc immunity and mobility generosity operates in this game. There are ways to use the skill effectively, such as kind of leading the target by strafing far enough for them not to roll through you (which most educated players do). But even then, its a crap shoot.

It is a damn shame.

IF zos goes ahead and makes heavy attacks faster as they told, I will be able to outperform it with buffed heavy attacks, thanks to molten armaments.

As I said, Its just shame.

Even when I want to stop using SnB, I just can't.

dmar613

I'll put my two cents in as a console pvper, wrecking blow has an inconsistent cast time due to lag. In the early half of the day the ability is manageable and is able to be timed with weaving light and heavy attacks.

However, during prime time the ability stays cocked back for definitely longer than one second which causes the ability to cancel itself when attempting to weave and does no damage, and leaves one's character exposed to counter attacks because I am unable to bar swap until the ability either connects or cancels.

Ragnarock41

dmar613 wrote: »

I'll put my two cents in as a console pvper, wrecking blow has an inconsistent cast time due to lag. In the early half of the day the ability is manageable and is able to be timed with weaving light and heavy attacks.

However, during prime time the ability stays cocked back for definitely longer than one second which causes the ability to cancel itself when attempting to weave and does no damage, and leaves one's character exposed to counter attacks because I am unable to bar swap until the ability either connects or cancels.

Its the same on Pc. On prime time I swap it for a dot and play SnB front bar instead.

akredon_ESO

OP i am so happy i am not the only who thinks that DS inst working well. I was dinking around with it the other day and couldnt Land a single attack on someone. I really think making WB/dizzy instant would be a positive improvement over the current use of the skill. Specially since Cyrodiil is So freakin laggy it feels like it takes 20 years for the damn skill to even go off and when it does it just gets Blocked or Dodged...

Another idea would be to make Hard cast skills undodgeable, i know that going to cause a *** ton of controversy suggesting such an idea but i feel like if you are hard casting you are already leaving your self open to attack but that just my 2 copper

rimmidimdim

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

One thing that adds to the issue of this skill, is a conbination of it being the only hard cast melee skill in the game and ZOSs seemingly zealous insistence on avoid traditional mmo ui features like the plague unless they absolutely have to, in some kind of effort to appeal not like a tradtional mmo. With a proper cast bar built into the game for abilities that absolutely operate on cast times, it would be much easier to determine fall off points for uppercut when visuals are disrupted or hard to make out.

Most of the advice anyone would try to offer is useless, the skill has limmited use with how cc immunity and mobility generosity operates in this game. There are ways to use the skill effectively, such as kind of leading the target by strafing far enough for them not to roll through you (which most educated players do). But even then, its a crap shoot.

It is a damn shame.

IF zos goes ahead and makes heavy attacks faster as they told, I will be able to outperform it with buffed heavy attacks, thanks to molten armaments.

As I said, Its just shame.

Even when I want to stop using SnB, I just can't.

It's not an issue with heavy attacks, because both mag and Stam players can both use heavy attacks. Dizzying swing is only a stam skill. Hits like a truck and used right can destroy. But I get what your saying. Maybe increase the dam on dizzying swing? But then you have the next post about how op it is. Dizzying swing is a skill that's deadly on average and lower skill players. Heavy attacks are use by really skilled players. I think it's just the style of the skill. If they make it insta cast reduce dam by 30%? Idk just thoughts. Cheers.

Ragnarock41

rimmidimdim wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

One thing that adds to the issue of this skill, is a conbination of it being the only hard cast melee skill in the game and ZOSs seemingly zealous insistence on avoid traditional mmo ui features like the plague unless they absolutely have to, in some kind of effort to appeal not like a tradtional mmo. With a proper cast bar built into the game for abilities that absolutely operate on cast times, it would be much easier to determine fall off points for uppercut when visuals are disrupted or hard to make out.

Most of the advice anyone would try to offer is useless, the skill has limmited use with how cc immunity and mobility generosity operates in this game. There are ways to use the skill effectively, such as kind of leading the target by strafing far enough for them not to roll through you (which most educated players do). But even then, its a crap shoot.

It is a damn shame.

IF zos goes ahead and makes heavy attacks faster as they told, I will be able to outperform it with buffed heavy attacks, thanks to molten armaments.

As I said, Its just shame.

Even when I want to stop using SnB, I just can't.

It's not an issue with heavy attacks, because both mag and Stam players can both use heavy attacks. Dizzying swing is only a stam skill. Hits like a truck and used right can destroy. But I get what your saying. Maybe increase the dam on dizzying swing? But then you have the next post about how op it is. Dizzying swing is a skill that's deadly on average and lower skill players. Heavy attacks are use by really skilled players. I think it's just the style of the skill. If they make it insta cast reduce dam by 30%? Idk just thoughts. Cheers.

I'm suggesting to change the other morph, wrecking blow, which is almost useless at the moment.